Waterbrick Down Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 There is also the possibility that the conversion itself is what caused the wooziness in the first place. That's certainly what I thought when I first heard about it. The only thing that makes me not follow that thought is Petrus' big anti-Hervi stance. That is assuming Petrus isn't just keeping up appearances. Also, it should be taken into account that there have been 4 accounts for wooziness thus far, the protector, the role-cop, Finn, and Bergulf, which would mean 4 conversions which seems a bit much to me.
Scouty Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Also, it should be taken into account that there have been 4 accounts for wooziness thus far, the protector, the role-cop, Finn, and Bergulf, which would mean 4 conversions which seems a bit much to me. I in no way meant that to mean there were four conversions I'm just saying that conversion, in addition to the framer/prankster/etc., are all factors that can screw up the night actions that cause disorientations.
CMP Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Also, it should be taken into account that there have been 4 accounts for wooziness thus far, the protector, the role-cop, Finn, and Bergulf, which would mean 4 conversions which seems a bit much to me. Not to mention Finn and Bergulf both came up town already. Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric). I don't like his attitude. On Day Two in particular, he was quite suspicious as Bergulf, Hervi, Mursi, and Dragmall, and despite not liking how they were driving Gerrid's bandwagon, he jumped on it anyway. Combined with the fact there's a good chance he's the killer, I don't have a problem with lynching him.
Waterbrick Down Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Not to mention Finn and Bergulf both came up town already. Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric). I don't like his attitude. On Day Two in particular, he was quite suspicious as Bergulf, Hervi, Mursi, and Dragmall, and despite not liking how they were driving Gerrid's bandwagon, he jumped on it anyway. Combined with the fact there's a good chance he's the killer, I don't have a problem with lynching him. See this is where I have the problem, he was the second person to draw our attention to Gerrid on Day 2 right after Finn, and on day 2 after Hervi brought forth his play on Artemis, he (Patrekr's) voted against Bergulf as if he didn't know that Bergulf was indeed Artemis. Now of course all of this could be chalked up to a good facade, but I guess we'll soon see. Due to the fact that he's one of the few to be somewhat confrimed by Dragmall and we need to get to the bottom of that list, I will Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric).
Rick Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 I'm not convinced Patrekr's scum, but we have to move forward, and if this is the only way to narrow down the list of suspects then so be it. Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric)
Palathadric Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Well, I've been striking people off my list slowly, and by looking at who has been verified to have a town role and who has been tracked/blocked recently, I believe the killer last night had to be either Snotra, Wilhalm or Patrekr. The only other options are our unverified "town" role claims, which are the inventor and perhaps the rolecop. So, of our three main suspects then, which one would be most beneficial to lynch? We have nothing on Wilhalm and I do feel he is just a rather passive townie. Snotra has been very aggressive, particularly against Hervi, which could have been staged. The odd rolecop result and his vanilla claim also mean he wouldn't be a bad lynch. Patrekr has had an odd voting history and has been quite adamant in defending Cranebeinn today. Is that scummy or just a townie who thinks Cranebeinn is ok? His thoughts haven't been that useful previously either. Well, let's get some voting going. For now, I shall vote: Patrekr (Palathadric). I really don't know what to say in response to this. Umm...I am the only option apart from Wilhalm and Snotra? Sounds like wishful thinking on your part, because I'm quite certain you're wrong. I know I'm town, but that is not even worth saying, because obviously if I were scum I'd say the same thing. From what I've seen, I'm quite confident that Scuba is town, or, at the least, the SK, I really do the think the latter is very possible, but it is purely guesswork. Wilhalm I have a bad feeling about, but, personally, I can't see him being scum. At the start of day 2 I believe it was, I pointed out to Finn by PM that I felt that among our "quieter" members, among whom were Sigmund, Beorn, and Wilhalm that I thought one of them was scum and that most likely either Bergulf or Gerrid was scum. Frankly, my main suspicions were with Sigmund and Bergulf. Which leads me to look at my voting history. On Day 1 I voted for Bergulf because I thought he was scummier than Danr. To me, Bergulf was the scummy one and Danr was a needless distraction. I think I also sympathized with Danr as he clearly did not want to see the Day 1 vote wasted on Bergulf, and he just got himself too involved. On Day 2 I think I made my suspicions towards Bergulf very plain in the first two days, but at the end of the day I switched to Gerrid. Why? Because, like I said numerous times in that day thread, I thought he was scummy. Did I think he was more scummy than Bergulf? No! I think I made that clear as well, but we did need the lynch. Like I said at the beginning of the day, I would have been happy to see Dragmall or Hervi lynched as well due to the information it would have given us, but I could see that that was not going to happen after Hervi and Draggy made up or whatever, so I persued my target of the previous day. On Day 3 my vote was always going to be for Hervi. I didn't like him from the moment Petrus started arguing with him on Day 1, and I was more than happy to be one of the first to vote him off. I don't know if I need a whole lot of explanation for that vote, since I laid my suspicions of Hervi out on Day 2. On Day 4 I made the mistake of leading the lynch on Stemid. When I voted I didn't really think that people would jump on the way they did, but frankly I thought it was ridiculous the way you were pursuing Erik when Stemid was guilty of almost the exact same things, but to a greater degree. That is why I voted Stemid. I thought he was a better candidate than Erik but I was kind of hoping that something else would come up. I think my main reason of voting for him was so that a mindless bandwagon wouldn't form against Erik and then, at the end of the day no one would really remember why they voted him off, which seemed to almost be the case. You say I've been protecting my son? Well, isn't that natural? Alright, maybe I did a bit, but I have mainly echoed the words of Finn when I laid my suspicions of Crainbeinn out before him in a message. He definitely seemed to think that my son was town, but now I guess I see that that could have been due to the bulletproof vest that he got from him. About him being converted on Night One or Night Two, if he was converted at all, I still think Night One is the more likely option, but I don't see how it makes a difference. As far as I know it's just a wild theory, but if there's any real evidence behind it, I'd be glad to know. For now it just seems to be based off his "bad luck." If Crainbeinn is scum, I am almost more likely to believe that he was scum from the beginning, but actually his being converted could also explain the carelessness of two scum voting for Wilhalm on Day 1, because he in truth wasn't scum then. I don't know about all of this though. Since we are on Wilhalm already, I will go with him next. It seems odd to me that a scum voted for you on Day 1 very blatantly after Ragnar told us that you were away, but what was this individual's motivation? Was it purely the vote of a disinterested person, or did Gerrid know that his vote would never hold water, but wanted to get in a vote for one of his team mates so that should either one of you die, the other would not appear suspicious. I have said before, but I am also very disappointed with how you just seem to show up at voting time. You and Beorn and some others are very much like this. A couple of you say that you are working hard behind the scenes. Really? Well, I can't be the judge there as very few people have contacted me privately in this game and I have initiated contact with next to no one so I obviously can't see the work you're doing, but I kind of wonder that with so many people working behind the scenes, together I assume, why is there no concrete evidence forthcoming? The only evidence I have seen is Dragmall's pitiful case against Erik and then another pitiful case against me today. "Look at his odd voting history," you say. Well care to point anything specific out? On to my suspicions of Dragmall: After Hervi got lynched, you seemed to take control of the town, I could be wrong, but that is what it appeared like to me and probably to a lot of others as well. I knew it wouldn't be easy, but from the way that you were talking I felt somewhat confident that some good information would be forthcoming from our town block, since it was nice and organized now, or whatever. Well, the next thing I know is you place a ridiculous vote with next to meaning on Erik and basically call him out for being a sheep. What was that all about anyway? Was it meant to help you find out information? Did all your time working behind the scenes not give you any better candidate? Another thing I wonder is, if you are really town, why aren't you dead yet? I heard that you are the kind of person that often falls prey to the sickness we call metagaming. Maybe the scum are afraid that you are protected or watched or something. That's possible but how come in other such scenarios they didn't seem to have the same fear? Now Snotra: I don't know what to think about you, but I'm pretty sure you're not scum. Like I said, I think, likely enough, you are the serial killer, especially because of your repeated insistence that the serial killer is working with us town. At first, I thought it would be a good idea for all the PRs whom Hervi knew to out themselves publicly, since clearly they were already known to the scum, but then Crainebeinn's post made me reconsider, there was still the serial killer lurking. Of course, from all appearances the serial killer is working with town, but there is also the odd chance that he isn't and that his having killed two scum is just accidental. I don't know about this, and personally I still think the serial killer is on our side and that making public all the townies whom Hervi knew would help to make things clear and give us a greater chance of catching the remaining scum, but I have realized that I could be wrong about this way of thinking and you could be the serial killer hoping to find out who the power roles are, so you can out them one by one. There is not a lot of evidence to back up this suspicion, but a suspicion is a suspicion and worth noting at least. This is all I have to say for now, but I'm sure there is more to come if I can gather my thoughts some more. See this is where I have the problem, he was the second person to draw our attention to Gerrid on Day 2 right after Finn, and on day 2 after Hervi brought forth his play on Artemis, he (Patrekr's) voted against Bergulf as if he didn't know that Bergulf was indeed Artemis. Now of course all of this could be chalked up to a good facade, but I guess we'll soon see. Due to the fact that he's one of the few to be somewhat confrimed by Dragmall and we need to get to the bottom of that list, I will Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric). Was it clear to everyone that Bergulf was Artemis? For some reason I didn't catch that until it was said plainly later on. I'm not convinced Patrekr's scum, but we have to move forward, and if this is the only way to narrow down the list of suspects then so be it. Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric) I understand your vote and I do think it's important that you narrow down the list of suspects, but to me this method at Dramall is using is much too random. Is he planning on testing out Wilhalm, Snotra, and I and if none of us turn up scum, start going through the list of the power roles who contacted him to see who's lying? That could mean three days of worthless lynching before finally anything serious happens. Of course, I am not 100% convinced of Snotra and Wilhalm's towniness, but I think there is a higher chance of them being town than scum...just saying.
Rick Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 I can't in good conscience vote for someone who I don't think is scum, not even to make progress. I'm afraid that if we're going to keep making 'progress' like this, we'll just be overrun by the Servants of Loki after all at some point. Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric)
Pandora Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 The events unfolding are becoming more worrying by the hour. I think we are in more peril than we might think. I found it hard to believe Patrekr might be scum before this badwagon was formed, and even less so after he has defended himself. I cannot see what information will be gleaned by his death, and I think we need all the townies we can get right now. Beorn, don't forget about that news you had for us.
Scouty Posted November 1, 2012 Posted November 1, 2012 Considering his defense and not a very strong case, I'm glad to not place a vote for Patrekr. He's not in the clear, no, but there's enough doubt that I don't want to lynch him for it. Out of Dragmall's other suspects, there's Wilhalm and Snotra. Then there's also a plethora of people caught in the act of nocturnal activity (not that sort of activity, though it is approved ). I would not be surprised if any one of these were fakes, or rather, not einherjar. Hopefully we can spot their lies sooner rather than later. Of Wilhalm...there's actually a lack "of Wilhalm," really. This could be a cunning ploy to appear so out of it that there's nothing that can be used against him. It could also be a very busy einherjar. Busy Servant?
MagPiesRUs Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 Vote Count Cranebeinn (Chromeknight) - 1 vote (Scubacarrot) Patrekr the Red (Palathadric) - 7 votes (Dragonator, Chromeknight, darkdragon, Bob, WhiteFang, CallMePie, WaterbrickDown) With 13 players remaining, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. 5 hours remain in the day.
Waterbrick Down Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Was it clear to everyone that Bergulf was Artemis? For some reason I didn't catch that until it was said plainly later on. No, that is my point. If you were a servant of Loki you would have heard from your buddy Hervi that Bergulf was Artemis. Reading through your defense, I certainly do not see the raging back-lashing scum I would have thought had we caught you. Thank you for your even-keeled response, indeed up until Dragmall's call for you to be lynched since you remained to be verified, I had thought you to be a loyal Einjahr, even if you were an over-pressing tyrant in our past life. Thus I will unvote: Patrekr the Red (Palathadric) Now don't we have anything that could be considered concrete evidence? We still have 2 issues that in my mind keep getting looked over: 1. The role-cop got a result of protector on Snorta who has claimed vanilla. Even if you throw this Prankster and his "woozy" making results in, I'm still don't think it makes sense. If anything the role-cop should have gotten something like "you 'think' he's a vanilla" if Snorta is telling the truth, which for the moment I believe. I seriously think we need to consider this role-cop. For start, we know we already had a legitimate investigator, why have a second? I've been listening in on the grape-vine and it appears that we don't have 2 cases of people being blocked which makes me think that either Hervi or Sigmund was their blocker. If this is the case than there is a 50/50 chance that the role-blocker is lying about Hervi having a sort of conversion action. Finally there is this whole "woozy" protector result on Snorta issue. 2. Apparently on night 2 there were 3 people blocked, or someone is lying about who they targeted. Why aren't we pursuing this either?
Chromeknight Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 I also would like the night three issue pursued. I am not lying (I have no good reason to insist I was blocked, I'm not going to be lynched over it, and could just say "my action failed") but I was blocked. So what happened to raise the other block claim? Let's have it. Oh, and until a better suspect comes along unvote:patrekr(palathadric) Oh wait. Perhaps a vote will motivate Beorn to speak up soon vote:beorn(bob)
Scouty Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Vote: Beorn (Bob) If we must see a lynch, I'd rather it be of Beorn's. His lynch will tell us something.
Dragonator Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Thanks for the long response Patrekr, while it doesn't clear you it does make me feel a bit more confident that you are not the scum we are looking for. Naturally the only way for us to get that sort of response was by starting a vote, so it did serve a purpose. As I noted when I said it, my list of three people is just based on who has claimed and who has been watched/blocked/tracked recently. It is definitely not authoritative, and I have already noted that the rolecop and inventor are still unverified as even having the actions they claim. I am a bit worried that we will be wasting our lynch today, but perhaps that doesn't matter. We have certainly made some progress. The three blocks on night 3 worry me also. Either Cranebeinn is lying, or there is some other reason for it. Under the redirector model proposed by Petrus, could the town blocker have been unknowingly redirected to block someone else without being told he was woozy? Is it possible for the protector to have been unsuccessful without being blocked? All questions that I wish we had an answer to. The odd rolecop result on Snotra I think is the only other lead we really have. Is it too late in the day to be dealing with this? Perhaps, but definitely something we can look into tomorrow. Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric) Hmm, since things are heading that way, let's hear from our rolecop, Beorn. Vote: Beorn (Bob)
Chromeknight Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 Thanks for speaking up Dragmall. I would like to make it clear my vote on beorn was placed without knowing he was the role-cop that had been mentioned...
Darkdragon Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 At least until we hear from Beorn, Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric)
Scouty Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 If you're lurking around, you ought to vote for Beorn, if anything than to get a lynch (one that would actually answer questions). We only need four more votes to make that happen. I count three active among us who could do that. Not only is role cop an easy claim to make (especially when tons of people claimed to Hervi), but he ballsed up Snotra's apparent "doctor role". With the information he's had (and including the disorientated bit), he's open to make up whatever he wants, including getting a woozy result that Snotra is some doctor/protector. I'd rather not have to use precious town resources to have him verified tonight, and any hesitation is going to be a real killer for us at this point. Let the axes fly.
CMP Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 I suppose it was a reasonable defense. Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric). At least we're getting somewhere more concrete than taking a chance and praying it's the killer. Vote: Beorn (Bob.) But try and loose these revelations a little earlier next time, Dragmall. We're cutting it pretty close, and not giving the accused an opportunity to speak could cost valuable information if he turns up townie tomorrow.
Darkdragon Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 He hasn't responded to us, and time is running out. Maybe he is actually afraid. Vote: Beorn (Bob)
WhiteFang Posted November 2, 2012 Posted November 2, 2012 I will follow suit, Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric) Vote: Beorn (Bob)
MagPiesRUs Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 Vote Count Cranebeinn (Chromeknight) - 1 vote (Scubacarrot) Patrekr the Red (Palathadric) - 1 vote (Bob) Beorn Ale-Lover (Bob) - 7 votes (Chromeknight, Scouty, Dragonator, Waterbrick Down, CallMePie, darkdragon, WhiteFang) With 13 players remaining, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. 1 hour and 30 minutes remain in the day.
MagPiesRUs Posted November 2, 2012 Author Posted November 2, 2012 As the sun began to set, the einherjar stopped their fighting and came to another last minute decision. Beorn Ale-Lover (Bob), believing the day to be over, was already getting soused. Before Beorn knew what was happening, the rest of the einherjar were upon him. As field began to darken, the einherjar headed back to the hall, leaving a broken and bloodied Beorn behind. Meanwhile, Thor had taken his new buddy Harald with him to see Odin. They found him interrogating Loki on the rock he was imprisoned on. Loki looked up at his captor and laughed. "I will never tell you who I have employed. I have nothing left to lose. You have failed, Odin. As we speak, your beloved einherjar are murdering another of their own. Valhalla has grown old and decadent. Your warriors have been locked up in that abattoir of theirs for too long. They have lost their minds. And now, they have turned on each other instead of their proper enemies. They do not care for your cause, Odin. All they are loyal to is the taste of battle. Face it, Odin. One day, this world of yours will end. And we will all be better off for it." "You are the only one who would be better off, Loki," Odin said, "Forever, I shall be fighting and drinking. And forever, you shall be spat on by snakes." "We shall see, my friend," Loki replied, "We shall see." Realising his visit had been useless, Odin walked away. Harald joined him, hoping to finally learn of his mission. "How is Ragnar doing?" Odin inquired, "has he agreed to cease playing this 'mafia game' he speaks of?" "I'm afraid not," Harald replied, "he continues to kill the men among us indiscriminately." Odin halted, "then kill him. I am sure he was working with good intentions at first, but every man has their breaking point. Ragnar has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane." With that, Odin walked off, leaving Harald to ponder his orders. It is now night. You have 48 hours to send in your night actions.
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