Ragnarök Now - Day Six

[Dragonator]

Well I do believe I've said what needs to be said. We have testament from a servant of Loki, in confidence to someone she was certain would be joining her, that Petrus is also a servant of Loki. We have Petrus' own actions in the last few days to consider. We have the fact that 7 of us are confirmed through night action verification.

The best choice for today is to Vote: Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora).

Let's finish this off and get back to the manly mead I say.

[Scouty]

Honestly, anything else just sounds too over the top.

Vote: Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora)

[Waterbrick Down]

Actions as requested:

Night 1: Killed Jormund (He was wishy washy with his statements)

Night 2: Killed Mursi (I thought he and Hervi were in league together and figured if Hervi was indeed scum he would slip up with all the lies he had going)

Night 3: Killed Sigmund (He was a lurker)

Night 4: Killed Erik (Mainly to eliminate suspects for scum)

Night 5: Killed Dragrun (She admitted to being scum)

As Sveinn can attest I claimed to him on Day 3 since he had worked so hard to get Gerrid lynched so I was pretty sure he was a loyal Einjahr and from that point on I was working with the town block. The only roles I was aware of were Dragmall's and Sveinn's, Carl and Canute I ventured a guess at since their roles had been mentioned in private.

Unless Dragrun was trying to pull some sort of hair-brained last minute bluff, I know that you are scum Petrus. I spent a whole day and a 1/2 trying to get your final set of night actions. Time and time again Dragrun went to check on what her team-mates thought, until finally she blabbed and only too late did she and you figure out that you had been bested. You're pulling at straws here at the end because it's all you have left.

Vote: Petrus (Pandora)

I'll raise a glass of manly mead to that Dragmall. Speaking of which where's that ale dog?!

[Chromeknight]

We only have the actions of the watcher to go.

I am not fully sold on the 'converter' theory, but it is a possible explination for the apparently high number of scum so far.

It is possible that Dagrun's talk of Petrus is simply a misdirect. However, assuming it is not, Petrus is a valid lynch target.

vote:Petrus(pandora)

[Capt. Redblade]

Sorry Carl is late. Here we go:

Night 1: Watched Sveinn. Successful, but Sveinn was not targeted.

Night 2: Watched Dragmall. Successful. Dragmall targeted by Sveinn and Canute. By passing this info to Dragmall, was able to clear both parties.

Night 3: Watched Dragmall again, figuring he must be a power player. Successful. Dragmall targeted by Beorn. Beorn claimed rolecop. Early conversations indicated this was true. Possibility that Beorn was converted?

Night Four: Watched Sveinn, on advice of Dragmall. Sveinn targeted by none. Began to wonder if Carl might have entered a WIFOM.

Night Five: Watched Dragmall again, as a test of Sveinn and Cranebeinn. Both verified.

Granted, Carl has favoured Dragmall these past few days, but he has helped Carl to cross people off Carl'd list (and vice versa).

With that out of the way:

Vote: Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora)

[Pandora]

You bet I am the protector, baby *Sveinn points to his townsy Protector badge*

Here are my targets:

Night one: Petrus (because we both shared an anti-Hervi stance, which, after the moment day two began, immediately ceased discussions with me. I would not expect a town Petrus to do that...to ignore me and our speculations like the way he did.) - I am disorientated, but I think my action is successful

May your badge bring you great pleasure, it is so shiny that lots of people have been able to see is for so long.

You still wonder why I went quiet? That I am to automatically trust you when you claim to have the same opinion as me about Hervi? I actually expected a town Hervi to come and talk to me about the fact I'd been pushing him, but he didn't. Instead, only you. Your suspicions of Hervi that you claimed to me were not borne out in public, and the actual point I stopped talking was when you and Dragmall and Hervi went off to have a little conversation and came back saying "no, don't worry, it's fine now, we're all friends again". And I didn't ignore my speculations, I was unwavering in my suspicion of Hervi, so I dont know what other speculations you feel I ignored.

I am town, I have not been converted, Dragmall is scum. If I felt we had another day, I'd suggest you test me at night, but you won't do that, and we'll lose anyway.

If you won't see it... just go back and read for goodness sake. And then you can remember the entire responsibility for this rests with you. All of it.

Unsurprisingly I vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

[Scouty]

Petrus, you should really have had no reason to ignore me the way you did in the beginning of Day Two.

That Hervi spectacle happened late in the day. We had the whole beginning of day two to speculate. You asked for my opinion on things, I gave them to you, and you never replied to them. I'm not saying you ignored your speculations, I'm saying you ignored mine. They're just speculations, I don't expect you to trust me, just talk to me.

No, you instead dropped me the moment day two began. I'm sure you had plenty of opportunity to reply to me before we let off the case of Hervi. You popped in a couple times, too, but no word. Even your performance after day one was different. Much more subdued than the first day, I chalk it up to keeping up appearances.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it was scummy behavior and I think your lynch today is for the best.

[Scubacarrot]

Come on guys, you must see: Killing Dragmall is the far superior option:

If we lynch Dragmall, and he is found innocent, what happens? Nothing, we kill Petrus tomorrow. He is according to Dragmall the last scum, isn't he?

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we might very well lose the damn game. Think about that.

Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

[CMP]

If we lynch Dragmall, and he is found innocent, what happens? Nothing.

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we might very well lose the damn game. Think about that.

[Dragonator]

[Scubacarrot]

You keep making stupid faces, what, words are too hard?

[Dragonator]

You keep making stupid faces, what, words are too hard?

Would you like to tell us which people you believe to be in this second scum faction? For this to be the last day by your reasoning, there must be 5 of them. This should be amusing.

[Capt. Redblade]

Come on guys, you must see: Killing Dragmall is the far superior option:

If we lynch Dragmall, and he is found innocent, what happens? Nothing, we kill Petrus tomorrow. He is according to Dragmall the last scum, isn't he?

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we might very well lose the damn game. Think about that.

Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we lynch Dragmall tomorrow. Simple, mais non? Either way, the rest of the second scum team ( Carl can't say that with a straight face) would still exist, and, by your logic, we'd then be screwed either way. As long as we're supposedly throwing good money after bad, Carl's fine with sticking to his previous vote.

And furthermore: :iamded_lol:

[Rick]

It does seem odd to me that Dragmall has attempted to lead lynches against the likes of Finn, and also why he would block Finn when he inherited the investigator action.

Indeed, and what suspicious behaviour has Petrus engaged in? None.

If the other theories are true then today's lynch is crucial. I'm not sure which to believe at this point. I find the conversation fascinating though, and Snotra never fails to impress me with her raucous behaviour.

Today's lynch is crucial indeed. At least test out Snotra's theory by lynching Dragmall, because if he's right, there are plenty of Einherjar left, and we can deal with the remaining Servant tomorrow.

But yes, if this is supposedly the last day and this magical third group are going to win, then that means there are 5 of them sitting around still. I find that far more laughable than you being the only scum left. The fact is, Dagrun implicated you in full confidence with someone he expected to be joining his side. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

See? No risk in lynching Dragmall today. We won't lose if he's right.

It may perhaps be worth noting that Rurik also did not support the vote for Beorn, and followed the crowd on Patrekr.

Right.

Night two: block Pandora (I was suspicious of the woozy protector result on her from the first night)

Is that why you said he wasn't tested at all before?

One further point of note. If all of the town power roles I have found are actually scum with me, what power roles did the town get? No blocker? No tracker? No watcher? No protector? What a useless town that would be. It's a stupid argument to make that all of the town power roles are actually scum, I can't believe that I even have to respond to it really.

The protector and the inventor are Town. The rest of the power roles either you or Hervi's Servants killed along the way.

If we postulate that Dragmall was indeed the scum's target last night. Then the lack of kill could be attributed to Sveinn's protection rather than Dragmall's block. This would entail that Dragmall's choice of block target cannot be used to infer the scum killer because of the lack of kill. This does not necessarily clear Petrus. But more information is needed.

Correct analysis, there is nothing incriminating Petrus and even if Dragmall is right about everything (which he isn't), Dagrun wouldn't have mentioned her partner to someone not yet fully converted. Do you honestly believe Dragmall is a fool and just believes that?

I am not fully sold on the 'converter' theory, but it is a possible explination for the apparently high number of scum so far.

The more likely explanation is that they're fighting each other. It also explains what happened on Day Two. They figure out there are two sides and try to strike a deal.

Dragmall, you've been promising to tell me the reason you and Hervi switched the vote to Gerrid after your private conversations. It was confidential according to Hervi on Day 3. You said you'd tell me after Hervi was confirmed to be a Servant. I've repeatedly asked you in private, yet you never answered. Of course you didn't. Snotra is right, Hervi was offering you Gerrid to make the numbers even again.

It is possible that Dagrun's talk of Petrus is simply a misdirect. However, assuming it is not, Petrus is a valid lynch target.

Even if you believe Dragmall, that he's a misdirect is the most likely explanation.

Petrus, you should really have had no reason to ignore me the way you did in the beginning of Day Two.

<snip>

I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it was scummy behavior and I think your lynch today is for the best.

Haven't you learned yet that you should be most suspicious of the ones who seem to trust you too easily? It was widely known you were the protector by Day 3. Dragmall even confirmed it to Petrus. Yet, you're still alive. Don't you think that's odd? Well, I think it is. And you should realise it is too. You're justifying to yourself why you've been trusting Dragmall the whole time. It's time to realise you've been wrong and prevent Dragmall from winning this. You, Cranebeinn, and Petrekr can turn this around.

Come on guys, you must see: Killing Dragmall is the far superior option:

If we lynch Dragmall, and he is found innocent, what happens? Nothing, we kill Petrus tomorrow. He is according to Dragmall the last scum, isn't he?

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we might very well lose the damn game. Think about that.

Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

Cranebeinn, Sveinn, Petrekr, you don't have to believe us right now. You have everything to lose by voting for Petrus today, but even Dragmall confirms that you have little to lose by testing our theory today. What's so hard to understand about that?

Gloating already. No wonder the only thing you and Carl did was trying to make us think there were only one or two scum left. I called both of you out for that. After that Dragmall must have told you to not talk too much anymore or you could easily give the whole team away.

Would you like to tell us which people you believe to be in this second scum faction? For this to be the last day by your reasoning, there must be 5 of them. This should be amusing.

I think that's clear by now: You, Cunute, Wary, Wilhalm, and Carl.

Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

[Scubacarrot]

I think there are four or three actually. You have access to at least one night kill,and perhaps a conversion. If you were to kill someone tonight in addition to Petrus' lynch: it would be 4-4, a win for the scum.

I think the people in it are: Dragmall (100%), Canute (Wasn't sure of earlier today, but the fact that he's behaving like an idiot is a 100% for me. In addition to the dismissive nature of it, he just does not act like this as a townie.), Wary (He's shown a hell of a lot of allegiance to Dragmall, not to the town, but to Dragmall, can't deny that)

I'm not sure about the rest, Cranebeinn is likely innocent. It's possible Carl is just dumb. Offense intended, go megablocking read, it's not hard, you learned it at elementary school. I don't know about Sveinn, others said he'd be clear, I'm not so sure. Wilhalm is clear in my eyes, he does not do shit, but yeah. Patrekr seems clear in my eyes as well. Dragmall tried to get Wilhalm and Patrekr lynched anyways.

[Rick]

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we lynch Dragmall tomorrow. Simple, mais non? Either way, the rest of the second scum team ( Carl can't say that with a straight face) would still exist, and, by your logic, we'd then be screwed either way. As long as we're supposedly throwing good money after bad, Carl's fine with sticking to his previous vote.

There won't be a tomorrow if we lynch Petrus (but you know that). If we make the 5 person scum team go into the night with 4 they can, if one of the scum kills is indeed gone, only kill one of us and we can stay ahead.

[Scubacarrot]

If we lynch Petrus and he is innocent, we lynch Dragmall tomorrow. Simple, mais non? Either way, the rest of the second scum team ( Carl can't say that with a straight face) would still exist, and, by your logic, we'd then be screwed either way. As long as we're supposedly throwing good money after bad, Carl's fine with sticking to his previous vote.

And furthermore: :iamded_lol:

That's not what I said at all. I really, really hope you are part of them, because otherwise this post is epitome of dumbness. Really. Townies everywhere cringe after seeing this.

[Dragonator]

As I told you in PM Rurik, I unvoted Hervi because it occurred to me that Bergulf must be Artemis. We then roleclaimed to each other, I went away, and he said his group had decided to lynch Genaro. That's all there was to it.

I realize it now, but he turned up as Town, so why would he lie? It really didn't seem like a joke. I'll just never talk to him during a game again.

OK, that's a weird result. Woozy and disoriented. It must mean something. I don't think I should go forward with it if we do want to try to lynch her today. Nobody would believe me.

Genaro seems Scummy.

Triple post:

Discussing things with my other group, we've agreed Genaro is the best lead for the day. I hope we're right. I hope after all the confusion today we can even achieve a lynch today!

Regarding the analysis that 5 of us are scum. That would suggest that there were 11 scum to begin with correct? That sounds pretty ridiculous. It would also suggest that there were at least 9 scum power roles. But wait, if one team had 6 roles, why would the other team have less? Let's make that at least 9 scum power roles. Let's compare this to the town. Inventor, protector, investigator, and vigilante if you count Gofraid. Is that it? It is possible that Steinvoir had one, and I suppose Danr and Musuri could have too. That makes a total of 7, with only 4 confirmed and 3 vague possibilities. General mechanics would indicate that the town on average has at least 1.5x - 2x as many power roles as the scum. Sounding more ridiculous yet?

This really is a laugh my megablocks off moment.

I think there are four or three actually. You have access to at least one night kill,and perhaps a conversion. If you were to kill someone tonight in addition to Petrus' lynch: it would be 4-4, a win for the scum.

There are 11 people left, a kill and a lynch would bring it to 4-5. Learn to count. By your logic, this is not the crucial day.

You said earlier that the conversion idea was ridiculous and that there has to be two teams, now you think my magical team has a conversion ability? Can you settle on one story?

I'm so glad you weren't in the town block Snotra and Rurik, clearly you don't have the capacity to think outside the little box of "Dragmall must be scum!"

[Scubacarrot]

I was taking the conversion into account, although that would be 3-5. It's a possibility there's a third party out there still or something, I don't know. Five scum left seems like a lot, but I guess you'd know better than I do? I never said it was ridiculous, the story Dagrun told was ridiculous, absolutely, you don't agree? Clearly there must be some truth to it, as Dagrun would never have told Wary all that shit if he was not going to be converted. Here's what I think: Dagrun did have a conversion, but it was not a two part, and she did not have any allies to do it for her. I think she was alone and was going to use it on Wary that night. It explains why there was no kill, too. A lot in general about Dagrun's story can be explained with it.

You know what, I really wanted to win a game, but apparantly people rather hand their victory over to people with flawed logic, who go out of their way not to respond to shit... It's really logical if my theory is what happened, you just have to think about it for five minutes, there are a lot of things we did not quite understand that can be explained with it. I am not sure about all the details, but I am convinced this is right. If you are Town, I urge you to look at the events of the past with the idea that there are two scum factions with the same name (it's not that odd, really now, it also explains Dagrun's mentioned distrust and the fact that we catched a bazillion scum so easily).

I'm not going to try and actively convince people, all I get is people making stupid faces and the townies that can't see through them.

[Dragonator]

You know what, I really wanted to win a game, but apparantly people rather hand their victory over to people with flawed logic, who go out of their way not to respond to shit... It's really logical if my theory is what happened, you just have to think about it for five minutes, there are a lot of things we did not quite understand that can be explained with it. I am not sure about all the details, but I am convinced this is right. If you are Town, I urge you to look at the events of the past with the idea that there are two scum factions with the same name (it's not that odd, really now, it also explains Dagrun's mentioned distrust and the fact that we catched a bazillion scum so easily).

We worked hard to catch those scum, what did you do? Not a lot. You don't deserve to win this game with us, but you can at least be glad we're winning it for you!

You should take your own advice and read over the PMs provided by Wary again.

Man this is a manly day! Time for me to hit the hay with some mead though, there isn't anything more to be gained here. We have a majority, onwards to town victory!

[Chromeknight]

If Dragmall is right, there is one scum left. Not lynching them today means a possible kill tonight, and another day to finish them off.

If Snotra is right, there are three four or five scum left, Petrus is not one of them, lynching her and suffering a night kill by Wary means there are still three four or five scum left and tomorrow the last einherjar fight for their lives.

There is nothing to lose by ignoring Dragmall's plan, and nothing to gain that cannot be gained tomorrow.

There is seemingly everything to lose by ignoring Snotra. And everything to gain if he is right.

unvote:Petrus(pandora)

vote:Dragmall(dragonator)

[CMP]

If Dragmall is right, though, Petrus would finish the conversion on Wary, because we've just lynched our blocker. Then the scum would have two kills per night.

That sounds like a hell of a lot to lose by ignoring Dragmall's plan to me.

There's more to voting than 'which plan has more/less risk', Cranebainn. Can you say you actually believe in Snotra's theory?

[Scouty]

I was taking the conversion into account, although that would be 3-5. It's a possibility there's a third party out there still or something, I don't know. Five scum left seems like a lot, but I guess you'd know better than I do? I never said it was ridiculous, the story Dagrun told was ridiculous, absolutely, you don't agree? Clearly there must be some truth to it, as Dagrun would never have told Wary all that shit if he was not going to be converted. Here's what I think: Dagrun did have a conversion, but it was not a two part, and she did not have any allies to do it for her. I think she was alone and was going to use it on Wary that night. It explains why there was no kill, too. A lot in general about Dagrun's story can be explained with it.

Then why was Dagrun caught targeting Wary Night four? She couldn't have converted him right there, because then why would a converted scum immediately kill off their own the next night. What about the pms Wary posted, was that all fabricated? Your logic is much more flawed than the logic in the case against Petrus.

Look, it's either Petrus is the last scum or it's the biggest, most elaborate conspiracy to ever grace these halls.

[Dragonator]

Seriously Cranebeinn? Did you read anything I've said? Snotra's "theory" is utter garbage, and based on nothing. You're just going to lead us to a stalemate now...

Tell me Cranebeinn, do you honestly think Wary, Canute, Carl, myself, and possibly Wilhalm are scum, according to this wacko theory? From everything you have seen and that has been discussed? Does that sit right with you at all?

[Chromeknight]

If Dragmall is right, though, Petrus would finish the conversion on Wary, because we've just lynched our blocker. Then the scum would have two kills per night.

That sounds like a hell of a lot to lose by ignoring Dragmall's plan to me.

There's more to voting than 'which plan has more/less risk', Cranebainn. Can you say you actually believe in Snotra's theory?

Yes, but we can assume Wary will target Petrus tonight, and being the last scum, she'd have no one to block the kill. Even if the conversion finished tonight, I can't imagine the scum would immediately gain control of Wary's kill so, we simply lynch Wary tomorrow to end the game. It makes no difference in the long run.

voting according to which is less risk is all there is to it. I know nothing for certain. Snotra's plan is plausible. It should be tested.

And yes I have read all that has been said. From both 'sides'.