Ragnarök Now - Day Six

[Scubacarrot]

Here's another scenario, just for speculation sake, yeah?

We lynch CMP and Petrus is killed at night.

CMP comes up as town and Petrus comes up as scum. The game doesn't end still, so what do we do? Well, we can look at Wary, who could be the SK, though it's also very likely that he is the vigilante, too. Another option would be to lynch Snotra/Rurik because of their defending of Petrus a now confirmed scum.

Now then, what do Snotra and Rurik have to gain by lynching Dragmall, Canute, or company? Are they their own faction or are they just misled Einherjar? The point is that they did not want Petrus lynched. But why would they want to prevent a scum's lynch? To preserve numbers to win the next day? Is that why they are pushing so hard today to lynch anybody but Petrus? It is really they who are the third faction/whatever, and being so close, they go on the offensive to turn over whatever Dragmall does. I actually thought of this possibility in the beginning of the argument.

This is pure speculation, but it offers a scenario we have not really looked at yet that should be.

Thoughts?

Also, comparing this to Prison riot doesn't work so well because in Prison riot everybody was scum, except 'ol Odin here.

If I was so fixed on not lynching Petrus, why would I be totally cool with him being killed at night? I am fixed on not losing. I thought Rurik was cleared to be vanilla anyways. CMP won't come up town, but if he does and Petrus comes up scum? Well I don't think that's possible, but you could lynch me and Rurik right away, I guess, I don't know, it's not going to happen so whatever. And how would it work exactly? So say me, Rurik and Petrus are scum, you block and kill Petrus, so 2 scum. You track one of us and you watch the most likely candidate for conversion (if you'd assume it's a one night thing), Wary. Do you really think there's recovering from that position?

I was comparing to Prison Riot for the sole reason that there were multiple factions known as gangs. Sole Reason. Of course it's not the exact same...

[Rick]

Is that why they are pushing so hard today to lynch anybody but Petrus?

Not anybody but Petrus. I'd say the same thing if Dragmall was trying to get Snotra, Cranebeinn, Petrekr, you, or me lynched.

[Scubacarrot]

I am giving night action advice to the scum team now. God damn it.

[Pandora]

their defending of Petrus a now confirmed scum.

Nobody is a confirmed anything until they're dead, and even then in some cases you still can't be sure.

How have I gone from being accused to being confirmed?

Just kill me tonight and look at my allegiance in the morning, it's that simple. Just lynch Canute or Dragmall or Carl first, otherwise we'll all be dead in the morning.

There can be no excuse for me not to be dead tomorrow. The full force of the 'Town Block' should be able to ensure my death at night, but if you lynch me we have lost. You can still kill me, just lynch a scummo first to keep the numbers even.

their defending of Petrus a now confirmed scum.

Nobody is a confirmed anything until they're dead, and even then in some cases you still can't be sure.

How have I gone from being accused to being confirmed?

Just kill me tonight and look at my allegiance in the morning, it's that simple. Just lynch Canute or Dragmall or Carl first, otherwise we'll all be dead in the morning.

There can be no excuse for me not to be dead tomorrow. The full force of the 'Town Block' should be able to ensure my death at night, but if you lynch me we have lost. You can still kill me, just lynch a scummo first to keep the numbers even.

And I just remembered:

Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

Vote: Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie)

[Scouty]

I've never heard of this theory before, that the scum can steal actions. It's an interesting theory, I'm not sure how much I believe it, but it does sound interesting.

Anyway, I really think Petrus should die one way or another. Again, if you're Einherjar, team win and all that jazz. Canute should die one way or another, too. It's a good compromise for both arguments and with the cooperation of Dragmall and Wary, I'll switch my vote over.

[Scubacarrot]

There about five hours left in the day, if they don't respond in time or say no, then what? No pressure. Just the fate of the town that will lose if you make the wrong decision...

[Scouty]

Yeah, I'm not saying my theory works, it's just speculation.

Also, Petrus, I was talking in hypothetical terms, of your being revealed as scum tomorrow, not today.

Five hours left? I thought we were on the second part of our three part day?

[CMP]

Canute should die one way or another, too.

Ouch.

It's a reasonable compromise, yes.

There about five hours left in the day, if they don't respond in time or say no, then what? No pressure. Just the fate of the town that will lose if you make the wrong decision...

No, we're purposefully making the wrong decision to shut you and Rurik up.

[Scubacarrot]

Why don't you vote for yourself right now, then?

Five hours left? I thought we were on the second part of our three part day?

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. It seemed like I answered stupid questions from scum for ages, though.

[Scouty]

Yeah, we're on the second part of the day. We still have 29 hours left to talk. Right?

[CMP]

Why don't you vote for yourself right now, then?

If my arguments all day haven't been enough to get it across, I still don't believe in your theory. I'm just offering myself up to prove how wrong you are, and because we need a blocker more than we need a tracker.

[Pandora]

and with the cooperation of Dragmall and Wary, I'll switch my vote over.

Uhm, why do you need their cooperation? It's your vote Sveinn, not theirs.

The point is that they aren't going to cooperate, they're scum.

[Scouty]

I want everybody to agree to this. If not, then that jeopardizes things. You think they're scum, I'm less inclined to believe that. None of us are in agreement on these facts, but I think we can all be in agreement with this plan. They get to kill you and you get to kill Canute. It's a fair trade, if you can even call it that.

It is indeed my vote, so I'll change it when I like, which there seems to be plenty of time until tomorrow to do that.

[CMP]

The point is that they aren't going to cooperate, they're scum.

Then you'll have the satisfaction of seeing what kind of hilarious excuses they come up with not to vote the best choice for today. It's fun, trust me.

[Palathadric]

I have been puzzling this over the day, excuse my absence though, and I figured due to Dragmall being the blocker, that lynching him would not be the way to go. I am still not sure which side to go on, because although I find Dragmall more suspicious than Petrus, I find that Petrus/Rurik/Snotra have a lot more holes in their theories. Their theories are constantly changing and are muddled and confused. Of course, this could be because they are town and therefore do not have the same coordination that the scum have. I also very much do not like the way that Dragmall, Canute, and co seemed so certain of themselves at the beginning of the day and were being such ... to everyone else. I still am really not sure which way to place my vote though. We still have a while left to go in the day, though, and so there's plenty of time to cast my vote when it counts.

Something I was wondering about though, and thinking before any of this switching votes to Canute happened, is whether everyone from the "anti-Dragmall" team agrees that Wary is scum alongside Dragmall? If he is, then I think our best bet is to lynch him today. Think about it, if Petrus is scum, then his conversion does not go through, because the target is dead, and if Dragmall is scum, then the scum team lose their killer. If Dragmall is town, then Wary, who from what my son seemed to say is not the vigilante but the serial killer (that is based on the theory that Dragmall is town), will be dead and we would not have lost a townie, but a possibly dangerous serial killer who may surprise us in the end much like in the tale I recently heard sung called "The Forest." I don't know if this theory makes any sense, but I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. I am still not sure what to think though.

[Chromeknight]

I think Petrus' plan almost works.

It avoids all the issues town-Dragmall was talking about, ensures the death of scum-Petrus as well as inconviencing scum-Dragmall and vindicating town-Petrus.

Some more randomised thoughts.

Role stealing by scum? sounds like what Finn did. Perhaps that's why scum-dragmall was all freaky about that. And why Hervi-scum jumped on him (thinking he was Dragmall-scum)

On the other hand, we have never seen anyone killed by spear. So... role stolen? perhaps not. Perhaps it's all a hypothesis based on pictures.

Wary. What the Megablocks is he? Town Vig, Serial Killer, Other-scum killer? He has killed three scum at night. So one would think he's either neutral or town. But for Snotra's theory to fly, he has to be scum of a different flavour to the ones he has killed. I am surprised neither Snotra nor Petrus suggested lynching him to remove the dragmall-scum group's night kill...

and dear ol' dad makes the obvious suggestion as I ponder my words...

[Pandora]

I very much believe Wary is scum with Dragmall, and he's certainly been taking the lead from Dragmall for his targets at night. The problem is that when Wary is lynched and shown to be scum, the other scum (Dragmall and co) will somehow try to claim I converted him after all or something (even though that would put in doubt the entire theory of how they 'caught' Dagrun, and how Wary the frightened townie realised there were big friendly other townies to help him fight the 'conversion').

I need to prove to you I'm town, so you need to kill me to see that. The problem is that if you do that by lynching me today then we'll have automatically lost and the servants will win.

Lynch a scummo first and then kill me at night. We have all day to work out a way that will absolutely settle this once and for all, so let's do it.

[Palathadric]

Wait a minute, son! I thought a while back you said Wary was lying about being the vig...or were you saying he was lying about Gofraid not being the vig? Either way, lynch all liars, right?

And I would be more than happy to lynch my bitter rival and steal a victory away from him if he is, indeed, scum.

Petrus, you do make a good point about lynching Wary. However, I am a bit worried now, if based on the Petrus is Scum theory, there are more scum than just him, is it not possible that one of the others could take over with the conversion?

I'm still so confused...and I thought this great beard of mine made me manly.

[CMP]

Petrus, you do make a good point about lynching Wary. However, I am a bit worried now, if based on the Petrus is Scum theory, there are more scum than just him, is it not possible that one of the others could take over with the conversion?

Of course it is. That's why I'm not voting for myself. If there's another scum other than Petrus, well, we're screwed, because we have to block Petrus to make sure he doesn't get off a night action before we kill him.

[Scouty]

I'm not certain about Wary. There are indications that he really is the vigilante and indications that he is neutral, but none that he is scum. If he is indeed on the same team as Dragmall...well, I find that difficult to believe. My interactions with the two indicate to me that they are not. Maybe they did a good job at tricking me, but why would Wary approach me when I was already in good standing with Deagmall. It sounds redundant.

We take a bit more of a risk, I think, by lynching Wary, than we do by lynching Canute and killing Pertrus at night.

[Palathadric]

Then my theory of lynching Wary actually does work. After all, I don't think the scum could convert him after we've already lynched him, correct? And I think we all agree that he certainly isn't on team-Petrus today...although looks can be deceiving. :huh:

Did hear Sveinn's talk...well, allow me to sleep on it, and I'll see what I feel is right later on.

[Pandora]

Petrus, you do make a good point about lynching Wary. However, I am a bit worried now, if based on the Petrus is Scum theory, there are more scum than just him, is it not possible that one of the others could take over with the conversion?

The other problem is that in the "I'm scum he's town/SK/whatever" scenario, he's the only night kill aside from the scum (curious, eh? Maybe the only night kill now?) and he's needed to actually kill me, otherwise we'd be suggesting him for a lynch.

I need to be killed at night for you to see that I'm town, but you need to lynch a scummo first. Lynching Wary would (allegedly) remove the town's only chance of killing me tonight. And Dragmall's entire argument was based on me being the last scum. So if that's not the case, then what else about his argument is also wrong?

Wary is scum, I don't doubt that.

[Scouty]

In the realm if "Petrus is scum", Petrus would be the last scum for us to kill. There being more, in that realm, would be illogical.

But that's just in that realm, remember. A realm of normalcy

[Chromeknight]

Wait a minute, son! I thought a while back you said Wary was lying about being the vig...or were you saying he was lying about Gofraid not being the vig? Either way, lynch all liars, right?

And I would be more than happy to lynch my bitter rival and steal a victory away from him if he is, indeed, scum.

Petrus, you do make a good point about lynching Wary. However, I am a bit worried now, if based on the Petrus is Scum theory, there are more scum than just him, is it not possible that one of the others could take over with the conversion?

I'm still so confused...and I thought this great beard of mine made me manly.

Wary said that the spear Gofraid had was a gift from me, that Gofraid was not the town vig (as Hervi suggested) and that he was in fact the town vig. I clarified that it was unlikely my gift would be shown as a spear and that denying Gofraid was the town vig contradicted Hervi. (though Hervi was scum, and thereby likely spinning the truth for his own ends).

However, the suggestion has already been made that the scum swap roles around? Scum-Wary may simply be taking credit for the actions of his team. But if that's the case, how did Snotra know for certain that Wary was Mr.Broadsword?

Either Dragmall-scum can't swap actions and it would thereby be strange that Hervi-scum could,

This contradicts Dagrun's testimony, and the experience of previous lives where scum could pass (at least the kill) roles around.

OR

Wary is a killer of some flavour with a fixed role and thereby unlikely to be Dragmall-scum.

But if Wary is not Dragmall-scum, that pokes a big hole in the Dragmall-scum team theory.

[Pandora]

This contradicts Dagrun's testimony

The testimony of a proved scum is no testimony at all.