Ragnarök Now - Day Six

[Scubacarrot]

So let me bring the events as they have happened in song, not responding and instead making stupid faces is not going to help you. If you are town, you'd consider this option. I don't agree with all of Petrus' assumptions, I don't think all the people Petrus mentioned are scum, and I don't think the merge happened like that, if at all. The fact that you are not even CONSIDERING this worries me. THINK GOD DAMN IT.

So this is the tale of the two groups of scum, Hervi's Pigsnugglers, and Dragmall's Dragondicks.

On the first day, they all went their way, maybe they knew, or maybe not, but the scum did their thing, and no bells did ring.

Then on the first eve, a skull was cleaved, it was Jormund, who bit the dust. Dragmall's group was perplexed, who was this imposter! Then on the next day, the leaders attacked each other indeed!

Words were swung, and threats were made! Then the conclusion was clear! If either of them was to win, a truce would have to be made! But one group, was stronger than the other, so how it'd be solved?

Relentless, Dragmall's group pulled to the flame, their own Gerrid! If the groups were to trust, equal they'd have to be! The very next day, Dragmall was done, he called off the truce, or perhaps Hervi had forced his hand, and he'd had to go! Hervi the traitorous bastard was sentenced, and an ugly grave was made!

Then Sigmund did die, seemingly, out of nowhere! but it was the Dragondicks, who knew all along! Then later it was clear, the Pigsnugglers were done for! Beorn, fell for his own, Dragun, desperate and perhaps alone, tried hard to save them! If she'd kill Dragmall, his minions she'd get, but alas for her, faith was playing hard to geeeeeeet!

The wildcard is Wary. I don't know if he was part of Dragmall's team from the beginning, or was converted. I think the second is more feasible? Although I could be wrong...

[Dragonator]

I am town, so I know you're wrong to think I'm leading a scum faction. It's pretty simple.

Let's take a moment though to consider. At no point has there been any indication there are two factions. From the History of this World we would also indicate that in the one case where there was a second scum faction, each was called a different name.

Personally if I were to believe this line of reasoning, the second scum team would consist of Snotra, Rurik, Petrus and maybe Patrekr. I highly doubt it though, it's a stupid suggestion.

[Scubacarrot]

Look at him crawl! It's amazing!

[Dragonator]

Look at him crawl! It's amazing!

Look at his face, it's hilarious!

[CMP]

Look at him crawl! It's amazing!

Now it's obvious you're joking. If you were serious you would've said 'BS, Dragmall'.

[Scubacarrot]

Keep crawling. It's getting obvious... Comments about my face are many when I'm hitting a nerve, it seems.

[Palathadric]

Wow! I don't know what to say. Honestly, as I was sleeping last night I kept on thinking that with all the scum that we were lynching there had to be either a scum role that could make dead town appear as scum or two scum factions. Now we have Dragmall's theory as well and I'm just not sure which way to go. It does seem odd to me that Dragmall has attempted to lead lynches against the likes of Finn, and also why he would block Finn when he inherited the investigator action. I am probably one of the most out of the loop as far as knowing about what was going on behind the scenes as it doesn't seem to surprise anyone that ol' Wary was the SK/Vig or whatever. I really don't know which way my vote is going, because, frankly I always thought that one of Dragmall, Petrus, or Rurik was scum. The easiest option appears to be to go after Petrus, but is it the best? I don't know. If Dragmall's tale is true then that means that we have one or at the most two enemies remaining, correct?

If the other theories are true then today's lynch is crucial. I'm not sure which to believe at this point. I find the conversation fascinating though, and Snotra never fails to impress me with her raucous behaviour.

[Dragonator]

Not quite, I blocked Finn on night 3 as a completely random block in my efforts to block the scum killer. This was when nobody had any idea what action he had. He came to me on day 4 to explain his situation. I raised the possibility of a lynch because it sounded weird to me that he targeted the guy that was killed on night 2, yet didn't receive the action he was meant to get.

Naturally I didn't see any harm in raising it as, since he did not get the investigator action and was claiming to be vanilla, it did not put a town power role at risk.

Once the matter was discussed I was of course happy to move on.

[Pandora]

There really is so much crap here to respond to, but let's make a start, at least.

Firstly, I'm town, I have been from the beginning, I haven't been converted. Of course I'd say that, but it needs to be categorically said. Dragmall, you're clearly baiting me and looking for a fight, whatever, you and I both know you're wrong, but let's play along with your silly argument in the hopes that maybe we (the town that is, not you and I Dragmall) can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

So apparently I was converted in some weird two-stage process? Which people are happy to believe began on night one, when Sveinn felt woozy protecting me, and was completed on night two, yet I was still going after Hervi so very vocally the following day? Apparently you're willing to believe (and by you, I mean the remaining townies here) that I did so to maintain some sort of cover.

A cover I apparently continued to maintain as I stepped in to prevent Dragmall from lynching obvious townies, like Finn and Patrekr. He thought he'd try a different tack when he presented his case against Cranebeinn, as I had previously mentioned I'd been suspicious of him, but he just didn't expect me to be so damn reasonable. I think he believed I'd be all hot-headed and just continue to go after Cranebeinn, but unfortunately for him, I didn't, I listend to Cranebeinn's response and thought it reasonable. So on three separate occasions I could have supported a lynch against people I believe to be town (Finn was confirmed town, and Patrekr really is obvious town), and even blamed Dragmall for those lynches, but instead someone else gets lynched instead of Dragmall's pick, and that someone else was even occasionally a scummo.

Dragmall, you told me you knew both Beorn and Canute had been seen targeting you, and you wondered what they were up to. You later discovered that not only had Beorn been targeting you but that he was claiming role-cop, and even that wasn't enough to bring his case to light, yet you were more than happy to out Finn and his entirely reasonable and completely plausible role. How have you managed to clear Canute since?

You considered me clear, yet you also say I'm a high risk for conversion. Surely if you had any doubts you'd have had your pet killer kill me? But you might have been afraid that plan might blow up in your face. And I don't believe I'm a higher risk than conversion than you are. Converting you would get the scum the 'Town Leader' and alleged blocker in one fell swoop, whereas with me they'd just get a vanilla. And they had role cops, so surely they would have known? At no point did you think it was a good idea to 'clear' me? With all those roles at your disposal, you never once thought to confirm me? The person who went after Hervi from day one?

Anyway, let's look back a bit shall we? I was apparently converted (fully) by day three. Possibly day four. So we'll look at day five. Let's look at the attempted lynch on Patrekr, and we should note that two confirmed scum voted for him. I could have hammered that vote, but I didn't. It was clear to me that he was the wrong person, so I didn't vote for him (don't you remember saying something similar Sveinn?). I had alread drawn attention to Beorn and his lack of return-with-revelation as he had promised, and then Cranebeinn starts a vote on Beorn (while I was sleeping I should add) and others reluctantly follow, requiring Sveinn to make a rousing speech to get him lynched. This is the Beorn that Dragmall knew was a role cop and knew had apparently 'role copped' him.

I also pointed out how quiet people had been - Dagrun, Carl, and Wilhalm, and all of them jumped defensively to say they were here and talking and working behind the scenes (although to whom is anyone's guess). Why would I draw attention to my supposed fellow scum in Dagrun?

Wary, can you possibly explain how if I'm some criminal mastermind who's fooled the town into thinking I'm town by acting so damn townie, why on earth would I have been doing anything last night if I and my supposed scum-mates new I'd be tracked? I'd already claimed vanilla to people who matter, so why would I risk that? Especially if (rather conveniently) the scum are able to switch actions around? And we're still not clear on how many scum there are in this hair-brained theory. And I'm also really surprised that you (Wary) managed to somehow guess the exact role that Dagrun claimed to Snotra in private. Remarkable.

There were a lot more points I could have made, but other people have made them for me.

It is purely laughable that a member of the scum-team would out another member of the same team to someone who is only half-converted. It is even more laughable that that same scum team wouldn't apparently see that things might go horribly awry, for instance in having their action blocked, and would still wish to tell all to a prospective convert. It is laughable still that a prospective convert would worry about how to get himself out of conversion and consult with the town oracle only after he'd in turn spilled all of the town roles to the scum (presumably including th useful town blocker role, who he could have asked to block the conversion before spilling his guts).

It's quite obvious from the unpleasant gloating that Dragmall and Canute think their day has come and that they've won. There is no point whatsoever trying to reason or argue with them. However, any true townies really need to take a long hard analytical look at the events and possibilities and realise what's going on here.

I can tell you I'm town all day, but only by appraising everything I've done will you see the truth. If you're truly Einherjar then you'll realise that we need to vote Dragmall out today.

[Palathadric]

Moving on to the theory that if it is somehow possible that the evil Servents of Loki can switch the allegiance of the dead, I would assume that they would only be able to do that for those that were lynched, right? Since they would have to target a person at night, presumably, to make the switch effective the next morning, and they wouldn't know who or SK/Vig was going to kill. So that would make the true servents of Loki to be, at least: Jormund, Sigmund, and Dagrun. Does this make any sense to anyone?

I guess it does seem very unlikely, doesn't it?

[Scubacarrot]

Moving on to the theory that if it is somehow possible that the evil Servents of Loki can switch the allegiance of the dead, I would assume that they would only be able to do that for those that were lynched, right? Since they would have to target a person at night, presumably, to make the switch effective the next morning, and they wouldn't know who or SK/Vig was going to kill. So that would make the true servents of Loki to be, at least: Jormund, Sigmund, and Dagrun. Does this make any sense to anyone?

I guess it does seem very unlikely, doesn't it?

I don't see this as a possibility, it would be incredibly hard for the town even if they had the ability to do that once. One good use and the whole town would collapse on itself if it was not found out that it had been used. If something like this does exist, we'd have a counter, and I haven't seen evidence that we do. So in short: it's very unlikely.

[Dragonator]

Valiant attempt Petrus, glad at least that the town victory won't be boring when we lynch you.

But yes, if this is supposedly the last day and this magical third group are going to win, then that means there are 5 of them sitting around still. I find that far more laughable than you being the only scum left. The fact is, Dagrun implicated you in full confidence with someone he expected to be joining his side. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Shall we take a moment to look at day 4 perhaps? Finn is discussed and never voted for as I am happy with his explanation once it is made publicly. Not seeing any better candidates, a vote is started for sheepy Erik. This is swiftly overturned by a vote for Stemid however, with the second person to vote being Dagrun. Who pipes up then? Petrus, muttering on about how he sees that both look suspicious without making a committal that either looks scummy in his eyes. Naturally he didn't want to vote for Stemid at the same time as Dagrun, so he waits till later on down the voting track.

Moving to day 5, lots of discussion relating to Cranebeinn at first. Petrus lays out his reasons for thinking Cranebeinn wasn't necessarily town. I agree with that and so no vote is made against Cranebeinn. Instead, I again look to a sheep, Patrekr this time. Perhaps not the best option, but at that point I was intending to catch out the rolecop by testing him that night with the tracker. Dagrun is again quick to jump on the lynch for Patrekr. Seeing a majority against Patrekr, Petrus mutters about not being certain and does nothing. Then the lynch quickly turns to Beorn, and Petrus has nothing to say on that, nor does he vote.

And now here we are today, ready to lynch him.

It may perhaps be worth noting that Rurik also did not support the vote for Beorn, and followed the crowd on Patrekr.

[Palathadric]

I don't see this as a possibility, it would be incredibly hard for the town even if they had the ability to do that once. One good use and the whole town would collapse on itself if it was not found out that it had been used. If something like this does exist, we'd have a counter, and I haven't seen evidence that we do. So in short: it's very unlikely.

Yeah, I was thinking the same myself. But I'm not sure if the "Two Servents of Loki" teams really works, because wouldn't they have different names. Well, I guess they do both work for Loki and it wouldn't be unlike Loki to try to mix us up like this.

Also, Dragmall, why do you keep calling the vile Dagrun a he. Clearly she was a she, was she not?

...Oh, gods!

[Dragonator]

Hmm, so she was. No wonder she was a wimpy servant of Loki and not a manly member of this Hall.

[Chromeknight]

Probably a good idea to clarify there Cranebeinn, Gofraid's spear had to be something else as the inventor can only hand out protective items. However Wary has worked hard thus far to take out the scum, and I see no reason to lynch him unless it becomes clear that he has to kill everyone in order to achieve his manly goals. Personally, I think it's more likely he just has to survive, based on past experience with this god.

Fair enough. I spoke quickly. But I am wondering, if this is the last day, as people seem to believe (whether it's lynch one more scum and they're gone or lynch a townie and town loses at night), why aren't all the cards on the table? Surely the defence you give Wary, that he's been a good pet and we should keep him is sufficient? Why didn't he make that rather than persist with a claim that would obviously be tested hard?

Since the town actions have been disclosed already, I'll lay them out here so we have full clarity. I just finished explaining this to Rurik in private, perhaps he will get off his high-horse and admit he is wrong now instead of constantly looking for any reason not to lynch Petrus.

I am the town blocker (verified as the tracker saw me target the correct person)

Sveinn is the town protector (verified as the watcher has seen him target me each night he said he was)

Cranebeinn is the town inventor (he gave me an item last night finally, woo!)

Canute is the town tracker (verified as he saw me targeting the correct person, along with others targeting the correct people)

Carl is the town watcher (verified as he has correctl identified the people that targeted me on three nights)

Wary is the town vigilante or neutral SK with a survival win condition (he has helped kill everyone we have asked him to and has provided the evidence to get the final scum)

Wilhalm was tracked last night and seen doing nothing, my conclusion is that he is vanilla.

This leaves Petrus, Rurik, Patrekr and Snotra. Of these four, we have the most evidence against Petrus. Therefore he is our lynch for today.

Ok. Let's here from everyone as to who was targeted when. This will shine light on the odd corners and seal somone's case.

Of course, there are liars who want to keep their lies hidden...

I have already had my targets laid bare, and the (occasional lack of) reasoning. I am happy to summarise again.

Night one: Target Finn. Succesful. Finn has a one-shot bulletproof ability.

Night two: Target Gofraid: Succesful, but Gofraid is now dead.

Night three: Unsuccessful

Night four: Target Dragmall Successful, but no effect.

Night five: Target Dragmall Successful, Dragmall has one-shot role-block (ascetic) ability

It is also worth remembering that all we can verify at the moment is a player's abiity to target, rather than their allegiance.

Dragmall says that I cannot have been blocked night three since he blocked Finn and the scum must have blocked the protector, since the protector was protecting Bergulf who was killed that night.

I pointed out that it is possible that Svienn did not in fact protect Begulf that night, and may not even be a protector. Dragmall stalled and said he would let me know everything tomorrow.

Let's have it all...

[Pandora]

Valiant attempt Petrus, glad at least that the town victory won't be boring when we lynch you.

No, at least you have done me the service of having me out of the way when the town suffers its humiliating defeat at your hands. Maybe I should be flattered?

But yes, if this is supposedly the last day and this magical third group are going to win, then that means there are 5 of them sitting around still. I find that far more laughable than you being the only scum left. The fact is, Dagrun implicated you in full confidence with someone he expected to be joining his side. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

Because scum never, ever lie. And you seriously believe that Dagrun was so stupid as to tell someone partially converted a true name? Surely that would make her the worst scum ever? It's quaint if Dagrun actually did say this to Wary that I might be considered some sort of 'sweetener' to the deal. I doubt it was ever said, though. So maybe instead I should be flattered by the elaborate plan to paint me as scum?

Shall we take a moment to look at day 4 perhaps? Finn is discussed and never voted for as I am happy with his explanation once it is made publicly. Not seeing any better candidates, a vote is started for sheepy Erik. This is swiftly overturned by a vote for Stemid however, with the second person to vote being Dagrun. Who pipes up then? Petrus, muttering on about how he sees that both look suspicious without making a committal that either looks scummy in his eyes. Naturally he didn't want to vote for Stemid at the same time as Dagrun, so he waits till later on down the voting track.

Sure, except that's not how it happened. I don't mutter, I make my thoughts plain. The two options you provided for lynch that day were far more townie looking than Stemid, and clearly I wasn't the only one to agree. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. As I said to Hervi, so long ago, anyone can go back and read the truth for themself.

Moving to day 5, lots of discussion relating to Cranebeinn at first. Petrus lays out his reasons for thinking Cranebeinn wasn't necessarily town. I agree with that and so no vote is made against Cranebeinn. Instead, I again look to a sheep, Patrekr this time. Perhaps not the best option, but at that point I was intending to catch out the rolecop by testing him that night with the tracker. Dagrun is again quick to jump on the lynch for Patrekr. Seeing a majority against Patrekr, Petrus mutters about not being certain and does nothing. Then the lynch quickly turns to Beorn, and Petrus has nothing to say on that, nor does he vote.

You went hard after Cranebeinn, and hoped I would too, but I found his response reasonable. Why would I do that? You say you agreed with me. Odd for you to agree with a supposed scum, isn't it? And you tried to lynch a sheep rather than lynch the role cop you'd seen target you and distrusted so much you wanted to test? The role cop - have you heard of a scummier role? And I had nothing to say about Beorn because that happened whilst I was asleep. Look up 'world time clock' in the library and compare the times to some sort of Kingdom that's united and you'll see.

It may perhaps be worth noting that Rurik also did not support the vote for Beorn, and followed the crowd on Patrekr.

And then unvoted him at the point where he was close to being lynched. You forgot that bit.

Your entire accusation of me is based on the fact that I might have been converted (attributed in part to the wooziness experienced by Sveinn on night one, when it's already been mentioned that other people have been woozy), I'm just too damn town for defending all those townies, and a lying scummy scum said I was scum to the serial killer halfway through some bizarre botched conversion.

Except I know I don't have to convince you of that. The Einherjar that follow you will have to prepare for the biggest face-palm ever in the conclusion tomorrow.

By the by, does nobody think it odd, with all the town resources at his disposal, that Dragmall has never managed to prevent a scum-kill? Each and every night (excepting last night, obviously) the scum have sidled past blockers and protectors to carry out their evil plans. Nobody else finds that at all odd? That we even still have a protector that's alive and kicking that everyone knew about and townies were still dying?

Let's have it all...

Absolutely. Every single night I have been sleeping soundly in my bed, doing absolutely nothing but dream of blowing stuff up, and burning stuff down.

Nobody's died by fire? No? Ok then.

[Dragonator]

And I stalled because Sveinn was being tested again. The watcher, Carl, saw him target me last night, so I am still certain that he is the protector has he claims, and have no reason to doubt him.

As for my targets:

Night one: block badboytje88 (there was discussion during the first day that made me very suspicious of him, so it was a natural choice)

Night two: block Pandora (I was suspicious of the woozy protector result on her from the first night)

Night three: block Finn (This was a random block from my list of uncertain people, in an attempt to find the scum killer. Much like killing Sigmund was a random choice from that list)

Night four: block Rick (I was suspicious of how he was responding to things, and so wanted to see if he was the killer that night)

Night five: block Pandora (to prevent the conversion)

Actually Petrus, Rurik's vote against Patrekr had no effect as there was already a majority without him. He did a similar thing to you, trying not to appear like he was keen to vote someone you both knew was a townie.

if you take a look at who has been killed, it is no surprise that none have been stopped. I started fitting together town action on day 3. On night 3, the scum kill Bergulf by blocking the protector, so that was impossible to stop. On night 4 they make a choice everyone admitted was a weird one and killed Finn. Last night they had no kill as we killed the killer. Go us!

Regarding Cranebeinn, I laid out the facts I had against him, he made a response, and after his response I also agreed with him. Don't try to make things up Petrus, it isn't helping you at all.

One further point of note. If all of the town power roles I have found are actually scum with me, what power roles did the town get? No blocker? No tracker? No watcher? No protector? What a useless town that would be. It's a stupid argument to make that all of the town power roles are actually scum, I can't believe that I even have to respond to it really.

[Chromeknight]

So Sveinn has an action which does not kill.

If we postulate that Dragmall was indeed the scum's target last night. Then the lack of kill could be attributed to Sveinn's protection rather than Dragmall's block. This would entail that Dragmall's choice of block target cannot be used to infer the scum killer because of the lack of kill. This does not necessarily clear Petrus. But more information is needed.

[Dragonator]

I didn't block a kill though, I blocked a conversion. It is clear from the opening of the day that Wary killed the scum killer. Perhaps that was enough to prevent the scum from carrying out their kill? Or perhaps Dagrun did end up switching to target me? Who knows. I just know that the best lynch target for today, the one that will give us clarity, is Petrus.

[Pandora]

And I stalled because Sveinn was being tested again. The watcher, Carl, saw him target me last night, so I am still certain that he is the protector has he claims, and have no reason to doubt him.

I'm certain he's the protector as he claims too. I wasn't saying otherwise. I don't see what testing Sveinn has to do with you not outing a scummy sounding role-cop who you knew had targeted you when you were happy to out a townie sounding inheritor who (understandably) hadn't.

Actually Petrus, Rurik's vote against Patrekr had no effect as there was already a majority without him. He did a similar thing to you, trying not to appear like he was keen to vote someone you both knew was a townie.

So was Sveinn doing the same? We both agree he's likely town, and he did pretty much the same thing as Rurik and I did. And looking back, yes it was after the hammer vote, but he was also the first to unvote.

One further point of note. If all of the town power roles I have found are actually scum with me, what power roles did the town get? No blocker? No tracker? No watcher? No protector? What a useless town that would be. It's a stupid argument to make that all of the town power roles are actually scum, I can't believe that I even have to respond to it really.

I didn't say all the town power roles were scum. We know we have already lost some town power roles, and there are possibly more we've lost that we don't know about. I don't believe at this moment that the inventor or the protector are scum, for instance. What I actually said was I believed that some people who have claimed town power roles (and have only been 'verified' by you or amongst themselves) were scum.

[Dragonator]

I didn't say all the town power roles were scum. We know we have already lost some town power roles, and there are possibly more we've lost that we don't know about. I don't believe at this moment that the inventor or the protector are scum, for instance. What I actually said was I believed that some people who have claimed town power roles (and have only been 'verified' by you or amongst themselves) were scum.

Right, you said the watcher, tracker and blocker are scum. So what does that leave for the town? Not much; an inventor, an investigator, a protector and supposedly a vigilante from early in the game. What sort of town side is that? Compared with a scum team that had 6 roles which they could share around, not much. Generally, balance dictates that there will be more town power roles than scum ones. If you think the three of us are also scum, that takes things up to 9 scum power roles against 4 town ones. Are you seeing how ridiculous this is yet? Probably not since you're scum and fighting your last fight, but still funny to point out what a crap fight it is.

[Scouty]

You bet I am the protector, baby *Sveinn points to his townsy Protector badge*

Here are my targets:

Night one: Petrus (because we both shared an anti-Hervi stance, which, after the moment day two began, immediately ceased discussions with me. I would not expect a town Petrus to do that...to ignore me and our speculations like the way he did.) - I am disorientated, but I think my action is successful

Night Two: Dragmall - Successful

Night Three: I initially protected Wary, but I thought about it a bit more and I felt Bergulf was in greater danger, so I switched it to him. I was unsuccessful, obviously.

Night Four/Five: Dragmall again, no discernible targets that needed more protecting than he did. Both times successful.

For the most part I kept my intended targets secret from everybody else, so I could be a little more certain I wouldn't be blocked trying to protect anybody's killing. I only released said info after the fact.

On night three, Hervi assumed I was the protector (he told me so) and I'm sure it was the scum who blocked me that night.

Furthermore, I feel as if the scum were not 100% certain I was the protector, as I was not hindered after the fact. This is further evidenced in Beorn's "role cop" of Snotra as a protector. Beorn knew of a protector, but not the true identity. Most likely he was trying to raise questions against the real protector, which thankfully did not happen.

[CMP]

Night One: I tracked Gofraid the Foog. He didn't do anything, so I claimed to him, assuming he was vanilla townie.

Night Two: Dragmall. He targeted Petrus.

Night Three: Petrus, he targeted nobody. This is why we believe Petrus was vanilla at one point.

At this point I came into contact with Dragmall and the town block.

Night Four: Dagrun. She targeted Wary. Apparently when confronted about it she claimed a one-shot tracker role.

Night Five: Wilhalm, targeted nobody.

So I was pointed in a direction in which we caught a scum and cleared a suspect. Doesn't sound vaguely scummy to me.

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 11 players remaining, 6 votes are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day.

[CMP]

Vote: Petrus Fire-Starter (Pandora).