LEGO Castle 2013

[Faefrost]

Sigh! Some of the strange theories people come up with. No Lego is not seeking to destroy Castle in favor of LotR's. the exact opposite in fact. These Castle sets are being released now to fill a niche that LotR does not well service, and in many ways act as a feeder for younger children into the whole epic play of knights and dragons etc. yes they seem childish and crude and hideously colored to us. We're not 7! We also probably could not eat three bowls of Super Sugar Pops anymore without needing an insulin shot. You remember those classic castles so fondly because you were 10 when you were playing with them.

These sets are not for us. They are to help kids discover this type of play. These types of stories. These will lead into kids reading Tolkien and C S Lewis and Baum (no wouldn't THAT be a fun license!) and then they will buy LotR sets and keep growing and buying into their 40's.

And once again LotR and The Hobbit lines do not directly compete with the classic Lego Castle lines. They never have. They are more if a "Literary Fantasy" theme, and were a replacement for Harry Potter. We tend to forget that because we talk about it as a Castle theme around here. This differs from the scenario between Classic Pirates and PotC. These do directly compete, as a result Lego can't do classic Pirates while he PotC license is in effect. It's part of the contract with Disney.

And no Star Wars did not kill off space. At least not for more than a Year or so (which was probably a bad decision back in the dark days of the early 0 naughts). Space has been on the shelves every year since 2005.

[metalandi]

These new sets seem very childish, what castles have red and blue trimmings? Don't like these sets at all.

Yes, they should sue TLG, a TOY company, for being so rude and selling childish products!

Seriously, do you people even believe your own stuff you write here?

[Deathleech]

I wasn't a fan of these Castle sets when they were first unveiled and nothing has changed since then. I think its hard for people to look at sets like Helm's Deep and Orthanc, which have an amazing amount of detail, then look at these sets and be impressed. As others have pointed out they really appeal to two totally different groups. These Castle sets have bright colors and little detail, they are fairly simplistic and it's obvious they are aimed at young kids with all their play features. LotR uses a darker palette with more nuetral colors and a lot more detailing to appeal to older children and adults.

I will say this Caste line seems aimed at even younger children than The Fantasy or Kingdoms lines were. I was actually interested in both those lines but unfortunately got back into Lego after they had already passed. They seemed a little more original and detailed in their designs than the current Castle theme. I was slightly interested in this Castle theme when it looked like the dragon soldiers had white skin color like some kind of counts, vampires, or undead but they turned out to be just normal humans. The Forest Ambush set looks kind of fun because of the good amount of minifigures and dog for cheap, but the good pieces not even being plated is a turn off.

Lastly I agree with others, LotR isn't a long term license since it has nothing to help it sell to masses of children like SW does with constant new movies, cartoons, video games, etc. I could see LotR being a niche line produced in limited quantities aimed solely at hardcore Tolkien AFOLS and it could run for several years. there definetly are enough possible sets and battle packs that could be made. But, without the kids support it will never be as big as SW or last as long. Not that I think Game of Thrones could either. It's big right now but after the last book/tv season is over I think it's popularity will really die down (if not sooner). Plus, besides the dark content Lego would never do, I imagine it would be really hard to make sets for, even more so than LotR. I mean most of the scenes take place in huge cities or in the wild with character talking, how do you make those into sets? What do you build besides a huge Kings Landing or Winterfell?

Edited May 1, 2013 by Deathleech

[KristofBD]

I agree that Game of Thrones would be very unlikely: too dark and only aimed at adults (may be as a cuusoo set though).

The television series will run a long time though: five more seasons after this one... That would not be the problem.

This castle series is ok, but given the LOTR line, I will not buy any of these sets. I need all my money to spend on the magnificent LOTR sets. Originally I thought the Orthanc was going to be plain, but given its beautiful detailed interior, I cannot pass it. Compared to that set or the Helm's Deep set, these castle sets are indeed childish.

That being said, they do a good job at it. They are certainly not bad at all, and I guess we are spoiled having the LOTR and Hobbit lines...

Edited May 1, 2013 by KristofBD

[Lynx]

I remember some rumours about the return of the forest men (possibly due to the name of one of the sets). I would have had a slight interest for nostalgic reasons. These 2013 castle sets, however, are not worth thinking about in light of the Middle Earth line. I'm glad for classic castle theme fans, though!

[Flieger]

But, without the kids support it will never be as big as SW or last as long.

Nothing will.

I mean most of the scenes take place in huge cities or in the wild with character talking, how do you make those into sets? What do you build besides a huge Kings Landing or Winterfell?

How did you get that impression? The TV show is somewhat limited in budget and did not feature all the books’ locations in detail, but most of them were present. The possibilities for builds are nigh endless:

a) Castles of varying size and design

- Castle Black: not really a Castle just a number of Towers and buildings without an enclosing wall

http://gameofthrones...ki/Castle_Black

- Storm’s End: One huge drum tower surrounded by a round curtain wall (NOT seen on TV)

http://gameofthrones...Storm's_End

- Harrenhall: the blackened ruins of a once great castle

http://gameofthrones.../wiki/Harrenhal

- Dragonstone: an all black, small but high castle on an Island

http://gameofthrones...nstone_(castle)

- Pyke: several towers and structures on multiple Islands connected via bridges

http://gameofthrones...i/Pyke_(castle)

- the Twins: fortified bridge

http://gameofthrones.../wiki/The_Twins

- Deepwood Motte: wooden hill fortress (NOT seen on TV)

b) various city buildings:

- Pyramids of Mereen: Egypt style (Not YET seen; will be soon on TV)

- Magister’s palace in Pentos: mix of ancient and late medieval city state style

http://gameofthrones...com/wiki/Pentos

- The Mud Gate of King’s Landing: European medieval style gate which was the central point of the land battle at Blackwater Bay

http://gameofthrones..._the_Blackwater

- Horse Gate of Vaes Dothrak: two giant horses forming an entrance, no walls

http://gameofthrones...ki/Vaes_Dothrak

- a tourney ground

http://gameofthrones...wiki/Tournament

- Septs: church-like Buildings

http://gameofthrones...a.com/wiki/Sept

- Iron Throne room

http://gameofthrones...Hall_(Red_Keep)

c) ships; all factions feature large navies:

- various war galleys (late medieval style)

- Viking style longships of the Ironborn

- various transports

- supporting harbours like the one of Bravos with the Giant (like the Colossus of Rhodes)

d) single buildings in the wild

- various inns and taverns along the roads

http://gameofthrones.../Crossroads_Inn

- watchtowers: especially of course the Tower of Joy (Not seen on TV)

- Craster’s Keep: a daub and wattle hall with earthen dyke around it

http://gameofthrones...ster's_Keep

e) structures in the wild:

- fist of the First Men: similar to the Weathertop (not YET seen; will be soon on TV)

- tents of the Dothraki: nomad tents

- various caverns

f) carts and wagons:

- Night’s Watch’s prisoner cart

- Dothraki cart for the weak and old

- dwarf elephant drawn cart (not YET seen on TV)

- King’s and Queen’s carriages in King’s Landing

That is just a small selection. What makes GoT/ASOIAF so great is the fact that it features design elements stemming from multiple influences. The Tolkien franchise’s budget is higher therefore the structures in the movies appear to be bigger and more diverse, but in fact GoT/ASOIAF is at the very least on par, and imo far more diverse. It is just that some of the great buildings are either seen from a large distance or the scenes take part inside (in case of Dragonstone or Pyke e.g.) Also the TV series has the tendency to darken and dull all the bright colours of the books, unfortunately. Damn zeitgeist.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Flieger

[medib]

I would have bought some of the "bad guys" if they would have been wolves instead of dragons.

this line-up looks a lot like a rehash of the Knights Kingdom way back in the day, especially the Main Castle set.

The Dragon Lock-up looks like a poor substitute for the Wizard's / Skeleton Tower set when Kingdoms first came out.

If you are going to rehash sets, why not put out another Mill Raid set... that one looked nice and while I'm asking, why not include a goat or two... ;)

[Blakstone]

Since Game of Thrones is rated TV MA, TLG will never touch it no matter how popular it might be. It would diminish their overall brand. If you want proof of that, read the CUUSO reason for rejecting the Shaun of the Dead build.

Most of LEGO's market goes through a number of years of play only to go into their dark ages, never to return. I see this Castle line as focused on drawing in a new wave of Castle fans. As though Castle fans mature hopefully we will get someone like Kingdoms again.

I can wait since I have tons of LotR sets coming up and I am also enjoying the Marvel sets too.

[The Black Falcon]

As a classic Castle Lego AFOL I have mixed feelings. They are good starter Castle sets for kids plus having some potential as another faction for Castle buffs. For example my 7 year old nephew will love all of them where as I will harvest some Dragon minifigs for another branch of my Dragon Clan. My only gripe of course is the lack of Falcons. ;)

[blyz]

I am glad that I have a chance to get my hands on some castle stuff. A big thanks to Lego for making such a cute catapult.

[gedren_y]

People keep comparing this to KK, but look at the sets and series as a whole. They are nothing alike.

I find this King's Castle is actually superior to the Kingdoms one. Despite the heraldry, the structure of the building is more realistic. The Fantasy Era version was even more unrealistic.

The idea that we should have had a Forestmen or Black Falcons nostalgia theme is patently ridiculous. That would have appealed to AFOLs more than newcomers, and would have drawn sales from the movie set inspired LOTR/Hobbit theme. Licensing costs money, so TLG is going to do what it can to gain from it's investment.

That license will eventually fade. Much of the draw for TLG is to get non FOLs to have an interest in Lego. Pre-movie Tolkien fans will probably help draw this out till at most a special edition DVD/BluRay release of the complete Middle Earth sagas, if that happens. Most of these fans are after depictions of their favorites scenes in the movies and/or books. MOC building AFOLs are not really the target here, so TLG has to put more detail into these than they normally would for a Castle line.

This theme is intended for children who are a little young for the epic Tolkien books and movies (movie rating). These may appeal less to the AFOLs who keep sets the way TLG designed them, but the kids playing with them will likely be happy.

Comparing this version of Castle to LOTR is going to make some disappointed. This theme does have some more logically realistic detailing (underneath the heraldry and fantasy elements) than the previous four Castle themes. I have repeatedly expounded upon the new parts and new colors of existing parts. The 4x4 facet brick should be a big deal to any Castle MOC builder.

For me, these sets will help in my castle building and increase my overall collection.

Edited May 1, 2013 by gedren_y

[nesquik]

Kingdoms was aimed more at AFoLs while the 2013 Castle line was aimed at kids, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

Post of the thread.

As far as playability is concerned, the new 2013 Castle sets are as good any that have been released in the past, and the title of the theme says it all. Rather than focusing on a broad spectrum of characters, the philosophy behind 'Castle' is precisely that - a particular point in time, style of architecture and story. TLG have narrowed the theme down so that each product is all about the two factions, which for children is precisely what makes products like these so fun. It's about good versus evil, heroes and villains, and most importantly, the clear distinctions between the two.

Kingdoms didn't meet these criteria because it was too AFOL orientated; many of the sets were even Exclusives, and designed with the help of fans themselves. Although they were beautiful, the trade-off is playability. And since the LoTR sets have sold poorly (I work in Lego retail), it makes perfect sense to re-invent the Castle theme without the cost/restrictions of licensing and the niche effect of exclusive products.

A prime example of this is the King's Castle. Yes, it does look "childish". How old are you again? It's petty to complain about the appearance of a theme that is designed primarily for children. This castle is probably one of the most playable ever designed by TLG because it contains so many play features, not to mention that the blue slope elements - which are present to distinguish the faction - can easily be taken off and replaced by another colour if the builder wished. The central area is open so that soldiers or loot can be protected inside. It has weapons, nice walls and lots of accessories... What more could a young boy want? The Fantasy sets of the 90's pale in comparison as they don't have a narrative. Sentimentality gives us a warm feeling, but the truth is that they are far less focused.

I'll be looking to get most of these new Castle sets and see where I can take them from there I'd love to pass them onto my own children in the future.

Edited May 1, 2013 by nesquik

[naf]

When I look at the 2013 King's Castle pictures, it looks a lot like the older castles structurally, like Black Monarch's Castle. Lego seems to keep the same basic design for the large castle sets, and just tweaks the colors and accessories here and there. I agree, these are not very exciting sets from an afol perspective, but a lot of the older (80's/90's) castle sets weren't any more detailed, just different.

Personally, I don't like the color scheme Lego used, the blue and red accents on the castle, etc. However, Lego must have done their research and received a positive response on the colors from children.

I'm hoping for a big King's Castle style Lego Exclusive set, similar in style with the joust/MMV sets with brick built walls and lots of interior details.. I'm sure we'll get one eventually.

[LukeClarenceVan]

Personally, I feel these sets are more than a little lackluster. They seem overly simple, in colouration and technique. However, I can kind of understand: LEGO has a highly detailed castle line out right now (LOTR), and rather than compete with it they release a line of castle sets for very young kids or adults who miss classic LEGO sets. That's my theory, anyway.

[tedbeard]

We're not 7! We also probably could not eat three bowls of Super Sugar Pops anymore without needing an insulin shot. You remember those classic castles so fondly because you were 10 when you were playing with them.

These sets are not for us. They are to help kids discover this type of play.

Amazing how often we need to remind ourselves of this. These look like great sets for 7-9 year olds.

[Deathleech]

That is just a small selection. What makes GoT/ASOIAF so great is the fact that it features design elements stemming from multiple influences. The Tolkien franchise’s budget is higher therefore the structures in the movies appear to be bigger and more diverse, but in fact GoT/ASOIAF is at the very least on par, and imo far more diverse. It is just that some of the great buildings are either seen from a large distance or the scenes take part inside (in case of Dragonstone or Pyke e.g.) Also the TV series has the tendency to darken and dull all the bright colours of the books, unfortunately. Damn zeitgeist.

Sorry if my point wasn't very clear. I wasn't complaining about a lack of variety in GoT, but the size of the sets that would need to be made. Most are huge castles or outdoor landscapes which Lego really seems to struggle with when making into sets that fit certain price points. I mean look at LotR, even there they seem to have some trouble making sets that please fans. Mines of Moria, Attack of the Wargs, and Weathertop come to mind in particular because they are either ridiculously scaled down, or they only feature part of a location and don't feel "complete" to a lot of people. Most of GoT castles are as big as LotR ones or bigger, and a lot of stuff takes place outside (in forest or baren tundra/mountains). I mean sure Lego could make like a small tower, or a small piece of the great wall, but I think a lot of fans would feel let down. Then add in the fact the theme is so dark and it's pretty much a given Lego will never do a GoT theme.

[josykay]

@ GRogall:

Thanks for posting that picures!

I have to admit, neither Dragon Kights nor the good guys look that bad like i thought. In fact the torso of the Dragon Knights look very nice, even if i still do not really like the crest. The blue guys have really nice torsos too.

But why there are still no dark pearl morning stars? Why are all the awesome looking dark pearl helmets gone? They just looked awesome and made the Kingdoms' Dragon Knights the faction wie loved. The bad guys look a little bit weird: We got some regular dark pearl weapons, some black pieces of armor and some light pearl weapons like the morning star. Speaking of light pearl weapons... the new light pear cross bow is awesome!!! But why does only the Gatehouse Raid contain that crossbow? I just don't get it. Why are crossbows in the castle set regular brown ones?

I really really don't like the old "Dragon Masters"-torch design. It looks terrible. Why did Lego bring it back instead of using the orange plumes like they used for Pirates '09 and Kingdoms?

In addition there is an other minor thing, i really don't like about that serie. Stickers?! Why are those small flages stickers instead of printed like all the years befor? Nobody likes stickers! They suck....

The Forest Ambush set is a really great armybuilder for both factions. We got 2 good and two bad soldiers, 5 weapons (including that new sword) and a dog! That's awesome. In Addition we get some minor parts, a chest and new coins. Nice set.

The Gold Getaway contains less soldiers, but a (of course) new horse and a carriage. It looks a little bit overprized to mee. But still it is a decent set. But why is the hilt of the dragon knights axe brown instead of black like in Forest Ambush or the castle? It is really confusing why they use differrent colours for weapons of the same army....

The Gatehouse Raid reminds me of Kingdoms' prisom. However the gate is much higher so a mounted knight can cross the gate! It contains a mounted knight of the bad guys (with awesome horse barding) the earlier mentioned light pearl crossbow, a decent amount of minifigures and a heavy armored footman. Nice. But still i think, 30 Euro might be a little bit overprized. The building is surly not that great. But the minifigures are awesome.

The Dragon Mountain contains a awesome dragon, an other footed knight, a really great warlock/ sorcerer/ wizard but that's all. There don't seem to be many additional weapons, the "mountain" itself does some kind of suck and again i am a little bit confused. Why does the Forestambush contain new gold colored coins, while Dragon Mountain contains usual pirate coins, which look entirely different?

Now let me talk about the castle. Compared to the King's Castle of Kingdoms or several other classic lego castles that one looks a little bit disappointing. Of course it is still much better then KK1 and KK2 castles. But it looks a little bit childish. However the minifigures are really great again. It just is a real shame, that neither the king him self nor the Dragon Knights commaner owns a steed.

Speeking of the king: That king sadly can not afford a suit of armor. However he seems to own a full golden colored crown and sword instead of that gold covored stuff of former kings- Great. So his sword and crown will allways be shiny and will never ever fade.

Ahhh... i just realized: A classic brown spear? Are you searious? I just don't get it. Why don't you guys just stick to one color for each army?

All in all i think the minifigures are great. No doubt. Even the bad guys are not that terrible. But the strucures are not that great. Seems to be a little bit like KK1. The serie it self sucked, but some minifigures like Leo's troopers looked great.

[gedren_y]

@josykay: What you're calling 'new coins' are just pearl gold 1x1 round tiles. In Forest Ambush you get a crossbow which might be black (only in one SW set before) or pearl dark grey. The way it was lit makes it hard to tell.

[TeufelHund]

I would suggest we stop wasting bandwidth talking about Game of Thrones as a potential Lego theme - the show features gratuitous nudity, sex and violence and is thus never, ever going to be picked up by Lego (not sure what Mega Blocks' policy is with regards to licensing but I presume no self-respecting Lego fan would go there in any case).

Why does the Forestambush contain new gold colored coins, while Dragon Mountain contains usual pirate coins, which look entirely different?

I suspect it might be that either the golden coins are more expensive to produce or the smaller sets are targeted at younger builders who are more likely to lose the smaller coins/have trouble picking them up.

[Faefrost]

I would suggest we stop wasting bandwidth talking about Game of Thrones as a potential Lego theme - the show features gratuitous nudity, sex and violence and is thus never, ever going to be picked up by Lego (not sure what Mega Blocks' policy is with regards to licensing but I presume no self-respecting Lego fan would go there in any case).

Lets not forget the incest and child killin'. Cause nothing says Lego like tossing a prime example of their target market out a high window

[The_Cook]

I think the trick that Lego has missed with this latest Castle range is to include a number of the new gothic half-arch pieces in Bluish Grey. The design already appeals to TLG's target audience of children but having such an important part for medieval building within the sets would mean that the AFOL MOCing community would lap them up...

But alas, no gothic arches in Bley yet. Patience, patience, they will come in time....

[josykay]

In Forest Ambush you get a crossbow which might be black (only in one SW set before) or pearl dark grey. The way it was lit makes it hard to tell.

After looking at the newest detailed pictures i am pretty shure, that this crossbow is a dark pearl grey one. It just looks more like the Dragon Knights axeblade.

Edited May 2, 2013 by josykay

[andhe]

After looking at the newest detailed pictures i am pretty shure, that this crossbow is a dark pearl grey one. It just looks more like the Dragon Knights axeblade.

However that Gate House seems to contain a unique crossbow. A light pearl grey one.... Can't remember any set having that crossbow too.

Pearl light grey http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=2570&colorID=66&in=A

The sets are quite 'meh'. I appreciate that a return to basics might create an appealing line for kids, but as we're all adults this is a pointless argument.

Are they sets that appeal to me? Not particularly.

Should I expect TLG to do better and appeal to me as an AFOL? Probably not.

Can I hope for more? Certainly.

[Faefrost]

I think the trick that Lego has missed with this latest Castle range is to include a number of the new gothic half-arch pieces in Bluish Grey. The design already appeals to TLG's target audience of children but having such an important part for medieval building within the sets would mean that the AFOL MOCing community would lap them up...

But alas, no gothic arches in Bley yet. Patience, patience, they will come in time....

It's a new part so it may not yet have been available for use while these sets were being designed. Plus they do need some ramp up time to build a stock of the part in varying colors. These will probably be much more commonly used starting in the first 2014 waves.

[Alcarin]

I would love the new Dragon and the Horse barding but thats about it...

I am passing them even seeing them in high resolution.