Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Now I'm offering a logical way to proceed without the town losing a valuable role, and you're looking desperate. Convert you to what? Again, you don't believe in the cult, or so you say, and in your imaginary world, if I could convert you, you'd suddenly become the cult leader, which is the only thing I'm hoping to disprove? You've lost it. Very telling. Oh, Really? What is it telling of. Here's the wager. If I'm a cult member at this moment, I will go back to Mafia School. I said very clearly, you are either Scum pulling off an elaborate gambit or the Cult leader yourself. So, what's so telling? Why don't you try to get me lynched if you're so convinced that I'm the Cult Leader? Wouldn't my dead Cult body in the morning be the quickest vindication of your megablocks story? Really, what is my reaction telling you? I'm intrigued. I'd love to hear more.
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 There is no cult. Everyone repeat after me: I am calm, there is no cult. Shadell, really, there is no cult. Come on. That sounds like a pretty good mantra for a cult, actually. I guess we forgot the last option, the voice of god lied to me.
Dannylonglegs Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Didn't you just say you've been investigated more than once by different people, (one of which is the day investigator that my work put you in contact with, by the way, the one who didn't think it was safe to contact "the town leader" but talked to me, leading to a successful day kill)? You don't know another way? Why would god not give us a way to investigate Shadell but multiple ways to prove you? I find that very hard to believe. Yes, let's investigate Shadell tomorrow before we act on his night results.
Scubacarrot Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Didn't you just say you've been investigated more than once by different people, (one of which is the day investigator that my work put you in contact with, by the way, the one who didn't think it was safe to contact "the town leader" but talked to me, leading to a successful day kill)? You don't know another way? Why would god not give us a way to investigate Shadell but multiple ways to prove you? I find that very hard to believe. Jack.
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 So, what's so telling? Why don't you try to get me lynched if you're so convinced that I'm the Cult Leader? Wouldn't my dead Cult body in the morning be the quickest vindication of your megablocks story? Really, what is my reaction telling you? I'm intrigued. I'd love to hear more. Because I'm not a fool or a metagamer who cares about your fate except as it relates to this situation and trying to help the town. Getting you lynched when you could be a member of the town actually means something to me. Your reaction tells me that we think differently on that matter.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Didn't you just say you've been investigated more than once by different people, (one of which is the day investigator that my work put you in contact with, by the way, the one who didn't think it was safe to contact "the town leader" but talked to me, leading to a successful day kill)? You don't know another way? Why would god not give us a way to investigate Shadell but multiple ways to prove you? I find that very hard to believe. Save me a minute of looking back. Has God told you that Town Investigators get a Town result on Cult Members?
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Yes, let's investigate Shadell tomorrow before we act on his night results. Technically, if I get the right results, no one will have to act on them at all, the cult leader will be dead.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 That sounds like a pretty good mantra for a cult, actually. I guess we forgot the last option, the voice of god lied to me. Do you really think what you're saying doesn't sound the least bit hard to believe? Laughing at us is not the reaction I would expect if your role is actually as convoluted as the roleclaims you usually make up. Technically, if I get the right results, no one will have to act on them at all, the cult leader will be dead. Investigating the Cult Leader kills him or her? What?
Dannylonglegs Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Technically, if I get the right results, no one will have to act on them at all, the cult leader will be dead. Well, then brilliant! It can't hurt you, Oscar, unless you're the Cult Leader.
Scubacarrot Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Didn't he claim psychiatrist earlier. Newsflash, a psych does not kill. Or they'd be breaking their Hippocratic oath.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Well, then brilliant! It can't hurt you, Oscar, unless you're the Cult Leader. What if he is the Cult Leader, Dansmith? What if he converts me? Yes, if we lynch Shadell and she shows up Town, we can have the vig kill me before voting even starts. I'm fine with that. I'd stake my life on the fact that Shadell is lying. Shadell, please enlighten everyone as to why your most important focus of the day was finding the day killer. You told me in private, but I think everyone would love to hear why the Cult-Hunter, looking for a conversion only Cult, needed to know what side the killer was on. Please regale us with your tales of bravery hunting for the day killer that was somehow working with the Cult. This is my favorite part (makes popcorn).
Cecilie Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Yes, if we lynch Shadell and she shows up Town, we can have the vig kill me before voting even starts. I'm fine with that. I'd stake my life on the fact that Shadell is lying. I thought you were bulletproof?
def Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 As a last note before I nap, I wonder how to confirm Shadell's claims... I'd like to believe them, but...
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Do you really think what you're saying doesn't sound the least bit hard to believe? Laughing at us is not the reaction I would expect if your role is actually as convoluted as the roleclaims you usually make up. I'm really just laughing at your sudden fear and attempts to misrepresent things we discussed in private. I was not told what other investigators would get for a result because that isn't part of my role or any of my business. Logically, if they were able to investigate the same way I do, I wouldn't have been given the role, so it's still a stupid question to me. Investigating the Cult Leader kills him or her? What? Please refer to my answer to Daisy. And your own memory. Well, then brilliant! It can't hurt you, Oscar, unless you're the Cult Leader. Exactly why this sudden fear seems so telling to me. Didn't he claim psychiatrist earlier. Newsflash, a psych does not kill. Or they'd be breaking their Hippocratic oath. I have never once called this psychiatrist, that's Oscar's interpretation. Do you remember in a previous life where someone was hunting a serial killer and whoever found the other first killed them? That's what this is from my end. I can't say what it is from their end, it would be really weird for god to tell me that kind of detail. You know, I'd think Oscar would remember the situation I'm referring to, having written that play himself. Or maybe the one where he and I played wizards in an old castle and his metagaming megablocks went for me on night 1 and exposed both of us. He was neutral and I was town, we both died anyway. This is not exactly a new concept to the game of life.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I thought you were bulletproof? Damn it! Then lynch me...
Scubacarrot Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 So your role is: Cult Hunter? You hunt Cults? You are like Crocodile, but with cults instead of terrible tv shows? Give us EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. I don't think there is a cult.
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Yes, if we lynch Shadell and she shows up Town, we can have the vig kill me before voting even starts. I'm fine with that. I'd stake my life on the fact that Shadell is lying. Oooh, the Rotrigous gambit, but poorly done. What if not investigating you means the town never finds the cult leader and they're all converted? Shadell, please enlighten everyone as to why your most important focus of the day was finding the day killer. You told me in private, but I think everyone would love to hear why the Cult-Hunter, looking for a conversion only Cult, needed to know what side the killer was on. Simple, I told everyone it was something I thought we should discuss today, so it isn't just something I said in private. I still believe it's important. Why? Well, I told you that also, but I'll be happy to repeat it for those who don't already know, like you. The day killer is suspicious to me. They still are, even after killing the scum I discovered with the day investigator. By your logic, I shouldn't have done that either, I should only focus on the cult. Well guess what? The entire town is what we should all be concerned with, which means any threats to it. I see a very reasonable possibility that the day killer could be working for the cult, and I told you that. They wouldn't care who they killed, it could be a couple of townies than a scum and it wouldn't bother them at all. How has their work so far really told us their alignment? It hasn't and until today, it was all failures (assuming a vig), so that was enough reason to discuss it. Why are you suddenly opposed to any kind of discussion that could help the town? Please regale us with your tales of bravery hunting for the day killer that was somehow working with the Cult. This is my favorite part (makes popcorn). I have no direct action to hunt for the day killer, and at this point I don't even know if that needs to happen. What I do have, however, is a responsibility to try to stop the cult, and until that has happened, everyone is a suspect, including your beloved day killer. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's just the way it is, everyone is a suspect.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I'm really just laughing at your sudden fear and attempts to misrepresent things we discussed in private. I don't want to misrepresent you at all. If we can confirm this is real somehow, great. I'd rather have you with us than against us. But since you've, in typical fashion, focused on me and are now accusing me of being the Cult Leader, I have a tendency to think you're lying since I know I'm no such thing. I was not told what other investigators would get for a result because that isn't part of my role or any of my business. Logically, if they were able to investigate the same way I do, I wouldn't have been given the role, so it's still a stupid question to me. It's a stupid question? Oh, then I apologize. Thanks for clearing that one up. We'll all just stop asking the question that we only have your convoluted guess of an answer to. I still say if you believe the Cult Members will come up as Neutral when killed, like you said to me in private - do you deny that? - then the investigators would see them as neutral as well. I have never once called this psychiatrist, that's Oscar's interpretation. Do you remember in a previous life where someone was hunting a serial killer and whoever found the other first killed them? That's what this is from my end. I can't say what it is from their end, it would be really weird for god to tell me that kind of detail. You know, I'd think Oscar would remember the situation I'm referring to, having written that play himself. Or maybe the one where he and I played wizards in an old castle and his metagaming megablocks went for me on night 1 and exposed both of us. He was neutral and I was town, we both died anyway. This is not exactly a new concept to the game of life. This must be just like every other play ever written. Remember the other one with lunches? Or the other one where the Hider was also a watcher somehow? Good argument there.
Dannylonglegs Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 What if he is the Cult Leader, Dansmith? What if he converts me? Yes, if we lynch Shadell and she shows up Town, we can have the vig kill me before voting even starts. I'm fine with that. I'd stake my life on the fact that Shadell is lying. Shadell, please enlighten everyone as to why your most important focus of the day was finding the day killer. You told me in private, but I think everyone would love to hear why the Cult-Hunter, looking for a conversion only Cult, needed to know what side the killer was on. Please regale us with your tales of bravery hunting for the day killer that was somehow working with the Cult. This is my favorite part (makes popcorn). Wait, let's just be calm. His action eschews negative Town actions, right? We've seen proof of that, right? Would it be fair for a Cult Leader to be able to bypass all of our defenses to convert? He's claimed Cult-Hunter, right? If he's actually the Cult Leader, then isn't there an actual Cult-Hunter of some kind looking for him? If he's this public and he's lying about being the Cult-Hunter, doesn't that mean he'll be dealt with tonight anyways by his nemesis, probably tonight? If, after he uses his action on you, and you're still around, we can investigate him or you. I honestly doubt Cult members show up as Town and I think this is all very foolish, but I also do not want to be wrong about something this dangerous. I play things safe and listen to logic, and right now, logic is screaming in my ear that he's not the Cult-Leader and that you're Town. I will not take part in any Lynch of Shadell today, and I'll do anything I can to stop it. This is silly. From your actions, you're either overly paranoid, or the Cult Leader, and rightfully paranoid. I personally, think it's the former.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Oooh, the Rotrigous gambit, but poorly done. What if not investigating you means the town never finds the cult leader and they're all converted? What? If I'm the Cult Leader and I'm dead how could they all be converted? I'm saying if we lynch you and you come up as Town, I'll vote for myself the next day. Simple, I told everyone it was something I thought we should discuss today, so it isn't just something I said in private. I still believe it's important. Why? Well, I told you that also, but I'll be happy to repeat it for those who don't already know, like you. The day killer is suspicious to me. They still are, even after killing the scum I discovered with the day investigator. By your logic, I shouldn't have done that either, I should only focus on the cult. Well guess what? The entire town is what we should all be concerned with, which means any threats to it. I see a very reasonable possibility that the day killer could be working for the cult, and I told you that. They wouldn't care who they killed, it could be a couple of townies than a scum and it wouldn't bother them at all. How has their work so far really told us their alignment? It hasn't and until today, it was all failures (assuming a vig), so that was enough reason to discuss it. Why are you suddenly opposed to any kind of discussion that could help the town? How would the day killer be working for the conversion-only Cult? That's utter nonsense! So, God put us up against a Scum team that can't kill and a Cult that can? I have no direct action to hunt for the day killer, and at this point I don't even know if that needs to happen. What I do have, however, is a responsibility to try to stop the cult, and until that has happened, everyone is a suspect, including your beloved day killer. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's just the way it is, everyone is a suspect. My beloved day killer? I don't love him/her. I just got the claim today and after I came poking around. I don't trust the day killer. He/she did kill who I asked him/her to, but it doesn't mean he has the same win condition I do, which is to kill all of the Scum-the Town objective.
Tamamono Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Ok, this is a lot to catch up on, and I have to get going to groom Danny in a few, so I'll make this quick. Right now I most want to lynch Dave for his constant overreactions and his admittance of writing up his post in a word processor. Not a town move at all. But since there seems to be a lot of controversy over votes and unvotes, I think I'll save my vote until I'm sure of who I'm voting for. I still think Shadell is legitimate and independent. The jailkeeper thing guarantees that she's unblockable, so she's cult leader or cult hunter. I do realize how likely Shadell is to claim cult hunter as cult leader, but a cult is generally a completely unbalancing role to put in these situations - having a badass cult hunter go after them makes perfect sense. I don't really get why everyone seems to think that Oscar is the cult leader just because he has the vest - surely if he were cult he wouldn't admit that he had the vest? But still it's unnerving how much he's putting into Shadell being scum - Oscar, I've already made it clear that she can't be scum. Why insist on it? If Oscar's cult, then he's sure as hell going to want to get rid of his arch enemy, the cult hunter. Plus, this Damn it! Then lynch me... I just don't know what to make of this. Oscar's not one to give up as nontown, but I have to admit, there's something definitely fishy going on here... Gah, I can't make sense of anything. I'll be back later.
Shadows Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 What? If I'm the Cult Leader and I'm dead how could they all be converted? I'm saying if we lynch you and you come up as Town, I'll vote for myself the next day. In your scenario, you know as well as I do that you wouldn't let yourself die the next day, you'd find some way to get out of it, maybe give up one of your conversions without telling them what you're doing first. Some crappy move, like usual. How would the day killer be working for the conversion-only Cult? That's utter nonsense! So, God put us up against a Scum team that can't kill and a Cult that can? It's funny that you keep saying that. I was never told that they were conversion only, nor do I believe they are or I wouldn't have a vest at all. I also don't think we can safely say that the scum can't kill, and half of your arguments against people are based on successful blocks proving that those people might be killers who didn't get the chance, so I don't think you believe it either. The lies are starting to slip out, you might want to slow down, or just go hog wild and oink us to death. My beloved day killer? I don't love him/her. I just got the claim today and after I came poking around. I don't trust the day killer. He/she did kill who I asked him/her to, but it doesn't mean he has the same win condition I do, which is to kill all of the Scum-the Town objective. Yet you've been quick to defend them, saying that it's ridiculous to even consider that they could be scum. You chastised me for me, for example, but here you say you don't trust them now? If you don't think they're scum, you don't believe in the cult, what do you think they are that you don't trust?
Dannylonglegs Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I for one think that if there is a cult it is conversion only. The vest is there to keep Shadell from being killed before he can catch the Leader. Just my thoughts at least.
Hinckley Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Wait, let's just be calm. His action eschews negative Town actions, right? We've seen proof of that, right? Would it be fair for a Cult Leader to be able to bypass all of our defenses to convert? He's claimed Cult-Hunter, right? If he's actually the Cult Leader, then isn't there an actual Cult-Hunter of some kind looking for him? If he's this public and he's lying about being the Cult-Hunter, doesn't that mean he'll be dealt with tonight anyways by his nemesis, probably tonight? Consider this: Shadell is the Godfather. He can't be blocked or killed. That's the Scum balance. Whatever he actually is doing, he ran into Beeker along the way. Beeker and Bunsen get rolled in and they investigate Matilda, because she showed up targeting Bunsen. What else would Shadell do at that point? Try to defend another Scum? No, he'd have to meatshield Matilda. To metagame: why does he deny he does this when he just did it to Amy in Matilda's dream called The Forest II. Remember that dream? You were a dog. So, if Matilda got involved in the mix when Shadell was targeting Beeker, then Shadell would have to meatshield her. So, it's not a calculated risk or a ridiculous gambit, it's covering up what he couldn't defend without giving himself away. It's a forced meatshield to save the Godfather and the crazy Cult story to scare everyone into believing it. Why else would Shadell not have outed Matilda in the morning himself? He tells me he was distracted by the lunch conversation. And why else would he really be looking for the day killer? How is the day killer his biggest concern when it's supposed to be the Cult Leader? Enough. Vote: Shadell (Shadows) I don't buy her story.
Scubacarrot Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I for one think that if there is a cult it is conversion only. The vest is there to keep Shadell from being killed before he can catch the Leader. Just my thoughts at least. That would make the cult hunter insanely overpowered. But it does not matter because THERE IS NO CULT. I bet everyone here that there is no cult. Seriously. I gave Shadell the chance to give us the truth but she has not. Her story is a pile of bullcrap.
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