Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Tanma]

Short rant below

So remember how I was worried about Hydra apologists? Turns out we are already there. Yeah, a number of people (on tumblr, stay classy tumblr) are trying to glorify Ward as an abuse victim. Which sounds nice and abuse is certainly a problem. But as hopefully most of us know, your reason for being evil does not justify it. I can put up with Loki apologists because he is just based off myths, but Hydra is firmly linked to the Nazis. You can argue the Red Skull rebelled, but Hydra was still a part of the MCU Holocaust, and they were formed by Nazis. Which is not okay. And this was in history books in the MCU, anyone who agreed to join Hydra had to of known this history, and thus had to be at least apathetic towards the Nazis' and Hydra's crimes. And Hydra in Winter Soldier was planning to kill around twenty million people, as said by Pierce, which I think is around twice the estimates of the total death toll of the real world Holocaust. So yeah, Ward is evil, should not get redemption, and does not deserve redemption. Nazis are bad, Hydra is bad, and a sad backstory doesn't excuse genocide.

Seriously, this is why fans doesn't deserve nice things like villains with sad pasts.

Now, for those of you who have seen ASM2, do we get some more answers to Peter's parents and the Oscorp secrets? Don't tell me what they are if they are any, only if there is such knowledge in the film.

[Mr Man]

Seriously, this is why fans doesn't deserve nice things like villains with sad pasts.

I agree.

Now, for those of you who have seen ASM2, do we get some more answers to Peter's parents and the Oscorp secrets? Don't tell me what they are if they are any, only if there is such knowledge in the film.

Sort of, not a lot.

Seriously if there comes an extended, or special, or directors cut of the two TAS films it will explain so much.

[Faefrost]

Short rant below

So remember how I was worried about Hydra apologists? Turns out we are already there. Yeah, a number of people (on tumblr, stay classy tumblr) are trying to glorify Ward as an abuse victim. Which sounds nice and abuse is certainly a problem. But as hopefully most of us know, your reason for being evil does not justify it. I can put up with Loki apologists because he is just based off myths, but Hydra is firmly linked to the Nazis. You can argue the Red Skull rebelled, but Hydra was still a part of the MCU Holocaust, and they were formed by Nazis. Which is not okay. And this was in history books in the MCU, anyone who agreed to join Hydra had to of known this history, and thus had to be at least apathetic towards the Nazis' and Hydra's crimes. And Hydra in Winter Soldier was planning to kill around twenty million people, as said by Pierce, which I think is around twice the estimates of the total death toll of the real world Holocaust. So yeah, Ward is evil, should not get redemption, and does not deserve redemption. Nazis are bad, Hydra is bad, and a sad backstory doesn't excuse genocide.

Seriously, this is why fans doesn't deserve nice things like villains with sad pasts.

Now, for those of you who have seen ASM2, do we get some more answers to Peter's parents and the Oscorp secrets? Don't tell me what they are if they are any, only if there is such knowledge in the film.

I think Moviebob said it best way back in his review of the first Captain America Movie. "The Red Skull and Hydra were kicked out of the Nazi's... For being too evil. Just think on that for a minute."

[Ultron]

Yeah Hydra are Nazis...You can't argue it and they are terrible people whether they think they are supporting those actions or not. I hope you all know though that I fully support Ultrons attempts at population control and am and will be an Ultron apologist when the movie comes out....sorry.

[Tanma]

Thanks everybody, feeling a little better about people now.

I don't agree with Ultron, but I do like him as a villain. In A: EMH he was one of my favorite enemies, at least in season 1. I mean he was pretty frightening, he would have killed Thor if Amora hadn't saved him. And in general he was so brutal and effective. Plus his descent into villainy made sense, there were so many factors that could have pushed him, and the blame wasn't on any single character. I almost would have preferred him not return for season 2, since his actions and behavior seemed so different.

But of course the MCU Ultron is already going to be very different than the A: EMH version, as Hank isn't involved. My current theory for Ultron's origin is-

After Iron Man 3 the US Government had confiscated the remains of the many suits of Iron Man armor. One of them at least had suffered damage from the Extremis soldiers, so it had failed to Self Destruct. This meant a damaged version of JARVIS was still in its mainframe. They had working on it for a time using technology from the Hammer Drones when Winter Soldier happened, leaving the US without their main defense. Therefore they poured the rest of their energy into weaponizing and improving this armor, which they transformed into the prototype Ultron. They then began to mass produce it, and one of them ends up getting exposed to Loki's Staff which Baron Strucker currently possesses. Next thing you know, robots killing everyone.

Probably a little too complex, but it is more possible than most of my theories.

[Faefrost]

Thanks everybody, feeling a little better about people now.

I don't agree with Ultron, but I do like him as a villain. In A: EMH he was one of my favorite enemies, at least in season 1. I mean he was pretty frightening, he would have killed Thor if Amora hadn't saved him. And in general he was so brutal and effective. Plus his descent into villainy made sense, there were so many factors that could have pushed him, and the blame wasn't on any single character. I almost would have preferred him not return for season 2, since his actions and behavior seemed so different.

But of course the MCU Ultron is already going to be very different than the A: EMH version, as Hank isn't involved. My current theory for Ultron's origin is-

After Iron Man 3 the US Government had confiscated the remains of the many suits of Iron Man armor. One of them at least had suffered damage from the Extremis soldiers, so it had failed to Self Destruct. This meant a damaged version of JARVIS was still in its mainframe. They had working on it for a time using technology from the Hammer Drones when Winter Soldier happened, leaving the US without their main defense. Therefore they poured the rest of their energy into weaponizing and improving this armor, which they transformed into the prototype Ultron. They then began to mass produce it, and one of them ends up getting exposed to Loki's Staff which Baron Strucker currently possesses. Next thing you know, robots killing everyone.

Probably a little too complex, but it is more possible than most of my theories.

I don't think it will be quite that complex. We already have 2, possibly 3 AI's on the table.

Ultron will probably start out as Starks latest and greatest armor. Probably something adaptive that can evolve and alter itself. The Jarvis AI in it will corrupt itself, possibly in contact with Arnim Zola. As part of its efforts to duplicate itself it will build new bodies. One of which will end up with the original Jarvis AI in it. By the end of it all we will no longer have Jarvis as a disembodied voice in Starks Armor and homes. ( fairly safe bet seeing as Paul Bettany is joining the cast as an actual physical character and not simply voice work.)

And honestly Stark creating Ultron always made way more sense to me than Pym. Stark is the Engineer and technologist. Pym is a Micro Biologist. Modern Marvel has tried to edge away from the old school generic scientists (with the exception of Reed Richards who is a bit of a special case.)

BTW if you have never read it, Annihilation: Conquest isn't just the beginning of the modern Guardians of the Galaxy. It is also a phenomenal Ultron story.

[Ultron]

Thanks everybody, feeling a little better about people now.

I don't agree with Ultron, but I do like him as a villain. In A: EMH he was one of my favorite enemies, at least in season 1. I mean he was pretty frightening, he would have killed Thor if Amora hadn't saved him. And in general he was so brutal and effective. Plus his descent into villainy made sense, there were so many factors that could have pushed him, and the blame wasn't on any single character. I almost would have preferred him not return for season 2, since his actions and behavior seemed so different.

But of course the MCU Ultron is already going to be very different than the A: EMH version, as Hank isn't involved. My current theory for Ultron's origin is-

After Iron Man 3 the US Government had confiscated the remains of the many suits of Iron Man armor. One of them at least had suffered damage from the Extremis soldiers, so it had failed to Self Destruct. This meant a damaged version of JARVIS was still in its mainframe. They had working on it for a time using technology from the Hammer Drones when Winter Soldier happened, leaving the US without their main defense. Therefore they poured the rest of their energy into weaponizing and improving this armor, which they transformed into the prototype Ultron. They then began to mass produce it, and one of them ends up getting exposed to Loki's Staff which Baron Strucker currently possesses. Next thing you know, robots killing everyone.

Probably a little too complex, but it is more possible than most of my theories.

I'm starting to watch that series on Netflix, it's pretty good. I saw the episode in season 2 where he made the robot avengers. I have a comic that he actually makes robotic versions of the avengers, it's my favorite that I own But the episode wasn't too much about Ultron, more about the Vision- who I love. I was surprised by how dark and gritty the show is. I like it. I'll have to keep watching it. Too bad it got canceled.

Your theory for the MCU Ultron is pretty complex!

I also theorized that someone might find some iron man remains at the seaport and use those for Ultron so that may be possible! There's a lot of routes they could take, I just hope it makes logical sense that Ultron wants to destroy humanity and more specifically the Avengers. If Stark doesn't make him, I'm not really sure why he would have a vendetta against them...well that's not entirely true..If he was made by an outside source like Hydra or the Government, he could realize that he was patterned off of Tonys technology and Jarvis and then I guess hate him for that or something. Or he could see that they embody everything that hopes to protect humanity and wants to take them out.

I don't think it will be quite that complex. We already have 2, possibly 3 AI's on the table.

Ultron will probably start out as Starks latest and greatest armor. Probably something adaptive that can evolve and alter itself. The Jarvis AI in it will corrupt itself, possibly in contact with Arnim Zola. As part of its efforts to duplicate itself it will build new bodies. One of which will end up with the original Jarvis AI in it. By the end of it all we will no longer have Jarvis as a disembodied voice in Starks Armor and homes. ( fairly safe bet seeing as Paul Bettany is joining the cast as an actual physical character and not simply voice work.)

And honestly Stark creating Ultron always made way more sense to me than Pym. Stark is the Engineer and technologist. Pym is a Micro Biologist. Modern Marvel has tried to edge away from the old school generic scientists (with the exception of Reed Richards who is a bit of a special case.)

BTW if you have never read it, Annihilation: Conquest isn't just the beginning of the modern Guardians of the Galaxy. It is also a phenomenal Ultron story.

Logically with the way they have built up the MCU and Iron Man, it makes more sense to have Tony build him. I'm all for keeping things like the comics (that's what worries me most about how the vision will look) but this is one change I don't mind if Iron Man does end up building him. This way it could be more personal and emotional than if they introduced Pym just to have him build Ultron.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ultron

[The Legonater]

To the chain above:

I do like the idea of the climax of Iron Man 3 tying directly to Ultron's origin. Of all of the movies this wave, I feel IM3 has been the most disjointed from everything else so far, so it would be interesting to look at it in retrospect and see it very clearly connected.

[Mr Man]

Didn't the Igor armour survive the end of IM3? It must have as the thing it was supporting didn't fall over at the end when the others were blowing up.

[Zilcho]

Didn't the Igor armour survive the end of IM3? It must have as the thing it was supporting didn't fall over at the end when the others were blowing up.

You trust filmmakers too much :P

What really happened:

"Ok let's have a cool scene with a big armour"

*Igor supports the crane/think*

"Now we blow them all up!"

"But sir what about Igor supporting the structure?"

"Who?"

[Ultron]

Hmm, never thought about that. I imagine Igor is dead but maybe we're just supposed to believe he blew up last or something? Don't really have a good answer for that one.

[Dr Leg O Brick]

SPOILERS, read further at your own risk,

I haven't seen Cap 2, or any SHIELD episode beyond where it's at on British TV, so what I say may seem incredibly stupid, forgive me, but I must say Nick's a genius. It looks like Hydra wasn't that prepared for it's big reveal, so Nick has, effectively, flushed the system of bad guys out of SHIELD while leaving those he can (possibly) trust, forcing Hydra into the open.

I'm also going to say that, due to SHIELD being labelled a terrorist organization, the paperwork to call SHIELD SHIELD again might be a bit too much, I don't know, so perhaps not Agents Of SHIELD, but maybe Agents Of SWORD?

Edited May 5, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[sologuy369]

Changing the name of the show would basically make it a new show, would would probably more money and time spent by the studio on little things. "Agents of Shield" or even just S.H.I.E.L.D. is a household name. Agents of Sword just doesn't have that ring to it and would confuse many people

[Dr Leg O Brick]

SPOILERS:

True, it was just an idea though, I prefer SHIELD too, maybe have SWORD a separate series in the future though after what's to come in the next few Marvel films.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[Sam892]

SPOILERS:

True, it was just an idea though, I prefer SHIELD too, maybe have SWORD a separate series in the future though after what's to come in the next few Marvel films.

Or you could introduce S.T.R.I.K.E to the MCU. It's amazing how many different spy/defense organisations exist in the MARVEL universe.

[Dr Leg O Brick]

That would be good, I hadn't thought about that! Captain Britain is someone I would like to see, even if it's just a brief cameo or for an episode.

[Tanma]

Or you could introduce S.T.R.I.K.E to the MCU. It's amazing how many different spy/defense organisations exist in the MARVEL universe.

S.T.R.I.K.E. was the codename of the elite SHIELD teams, like the one Cap and Widow were in at the start of Winter Soldier.

[Sam892]

S.T.R.I.K.E. was the codename of the elite SHIELD teams, like the one Cap and Widow were in at the start of Winter Soldier.

They were just called the Strike team which is really just a basic military name, I got the feeling they were a small squad that were similar to the SAS or Navy seals. I think they are completely Seperate from S.T.R.I.K.E the organisation, in the comics they are basically the British version of S.H.I.E.L.D and could easily be spun out of AoS. It would make a lot of sense for the downfall of S.H.I.E.L.D to create them as all the agents S.H.I.E.L.D are fugitives from the American government, plus I'm sure almost every other country is looking to protect themselves from Superhuman threats. So I could easily see the UK or another country othering the team asylum, especially when they have experience against alien and Super human threats. Plus it would be a great way to keep things fresh with a main location change, and introduce a ton of new characters, Brian and Jamie Bradock, Jim Jaspers, Merlyn, Union Jack. You could also expand on the howling Commandos stuff since the original Union Jack was in Cap 1 just like that new agent's ( forgot his name ) grandfather was.

[Tanma]

At one point in Winter Soldier Rumlow declares "S.T.R.I.K.E., you heard the Cap! Gear up!" That phrase doesn't really make sense if they are a strike team, as he uses STRIKE like a specific noun. So I am fairly sure STRIKE in the MCU was just a branch of SHIELD.

On last night's episode, I enjoyed it. Anyone off the top of their head know of any Chinese monsters in the comics? I keep thinking Wendigo, but that is from North America and I don't know if Marvel has the rights or if Fox oes.

[Spider-Man]

On last night's episode, I enjoyed it. Anyone off the top of their head know of any Chinese monsters in the comics? I keep thinking Wendigo, but that is from North America and I don't know if Marvel has the rights or if Fox oes.

Just one of the most popular Marvel monsters ever! Fin Fang Foom!

[montgocloud]

So I saw The Amazing Spider-Man 2. I don't know what to think of this film... It's got a lot of great scenes, performances, and ideas hidden under a thick layer of mess. At times, the script struggled and the tone was all over the place. The action scenes were, for the most part, polished, but they also felt artificial. The score was interesting, particularly Electro's Suite and how it was integrated into the movie, though I'm still baffled that Spider-Man doesn't have his own heroic theme like the original Sam Raimi trilogy. But the main problem is that it tried to do too much so it felt overstuffed. As a result, some moments that should have been especially poignant didn't really resonate with me. It needed to be simplified. I did love Dane DeHaan and I think his performance as Harry Osborn was one of the highlights of the film. The over-the-top tone was refreshing. I'm just so conflicted. Overall I'd give it a 3/5.

[Tanma]

Just one of the most popular Marvel monsters ever! Fin Fang Foom!

Oh, duh. I guess they have the rights through Iron Man, but I doubt they would make Skye's parents Makluans, especially since the Ten Rings in the MCU are a group rather than...ten rings.

[Faefrost]

Did anyone catch the subtle info about Skye in last nights AoS? If it means what it seems to then something major has just been added to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

In talking with Ward Raina reveals that she thinks Skye might be more than they had thought. By comparing data from Skye's SHIELD drive with Hydra/Centipede info she already had Raina has figured out that Skye is an infant from a village in Hunan or Yunnan China (hard to tell exact pronunciation, but if this means what I think it does Yunnan would make more sense), that had been massacred by monsters. Strange monstrous creatures or beings. And she said the monsters were the infants parents.

A remote village near the Himalaya's? Strange monstrous creatures who are parents of a seemingly normal human child? Possibly some tie to the Kree, ie the blue Alien Coulson found to be part of TAHITI? Marvel fans I think we can see where this is going!!!! :cry_happy:

THE INHUMANS MAY BE ENTERING THE MCU!!

Kevin Feige let it slip awhile ago that they are working an Inhuman project. Basically involving the Inhumans as a sleeper cell supposed to prep for an alien invasion, but instead assimilate. This could be a teaser or kickoff for that type of story. For those not familiar with the Inhumans they are a race of Humans who were genetically manipulated by the Kree. Inhumans are born more or less human seeming. At a certain age they are exposed to the mutagen Terrigen Mists which cause them to each change in unique ways. Radically changing their appearance to often monstrous and granting them awesome powers. They live in a technological City / Space ship, originally located in the high Himalayas. The main characters are the Royal family, Black Bolt, his Wife Medusa, her sister Crystal, and the brothers Karnac, Gorgon and Triton.

If Skye is one of the main Inhumans she would most likely match up to Crystal.

Although given that characters past ties to the Fantastic Four they might simply use a non royal previously unknown Inhuman instead. So to avoid another studio conflict like with Quicksilver (Oddly enough Crystals ex husband. Don't ask)

So what do you think. Am I off base with this one? (Heck I got Deathlok right)

On last night's episode, I enjoyed it. Anyone off the top of their head know of any Chinese monsters in the comics? I keep thinking Wendigo, but that is from North America and I don't know if Marvel has the rights or if Fox oes.

Don't think Chinese. Think Himalayan. And once you connect Himalayan with "Monster's giving birth to a human infant" there is only one thing in the Marvel Universe it can be.

See the spoiler above.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Faefrost

[Tanma]

Did anyone catch the subtle info about Skye in last nights AoS? If it means what it seems to then something major has just been added to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

In talking with Ward Raina reveals that she thinks Skye might be more than they had thought. By comparing data from Skye's SHIELD drive with Hydra/Centipede info she already had Raina has figured out that Skye is an infant from a village in Hunan or Yunnan China (hard to tell exact pronunciation, but if this means what I think it does Yunnan would make more sense), that had been massacred by monsters. Strange monstrous creatures or beings. And she said the monsters were the infants parents.

A remote village near the Himalaya's? Strange monstrous creatures who are parents of a seemingly normal human child? Possibly some tie to the Kree, ie the blue Alien Coulson found to be part of TAHITI? Marvel fans I think we can see where this is going!!!! :cry_happy:

THE INHUMANS MAY BE ENTERING THE MCU!!

Kevin Feige let it slip awhile ago that they are working an Inhuman project. Basically involving the Inhumans as a sleeper cell supposed to prep for an alien invasion, but instead assimilate. This could be a teaser or kickoff for that type of story. For those not familiar with the Inhumans they are a race of Humans who were genetically manipulated by the Kree. Inhumans are born more or less human seeming. At a certain age they are exposed to the mutagen Terrigen Mists which cause them to each change in unique ways. Radically changing their appearance to often monstrous and granting them awesome powers. They live in a technological City / Space ship, originally located in the high Himalayas. The main characters are the Royal family, Black Bolt, his Wife Medusa, her sister Crystal, and the brothers Karnac, Gorgon and Triton.

If Skye is one of the main Inhumans she would most likely match up to Crystal.

Although given that characters past ties to the Fantastic Four they might simply use a non royal previously unknown Inhuman instead. So to avoid another studio conflict like with Quicksilver (Oddly enough Crystals ex husband. Don't ask)

So what do you think. Am I off base with this one? (Heck I got Deathlok right)

Don't think Chinese. Think Himalayan. And once you connect Himalayan with "Monster's giving birth to a human infant" there is only one thing in the Marvel Universe it can be.

See the spoiler above.

Oh. My. Living Tribunal. That makes so much sense. Thank you.

So the reason she seems human is because she hasn't been exposed to the Terrigan Mists, if this is right. And since the Mists can horribly twist users into monstrous forms, that explains-yes. I think this could work.

[Im a brickmaster.]

First thing my sister and I thought of after last nights episode was: 1 Syke and "flowers are sisters" and 2 all this has something to do with the Inhumans as stated previously by other astute members. It was interesting to see Wards induction to Hydra, as one of the few that actually found him quite likable, I thought his manipulation into joining was quite tragic.