Marvel Cinematic Universe

[rosalind14]

If you are not willing to play in somebody else's sandbox why on earth would you jump on to direct a Marvel movie. It's like some great novelist wanting to write X-Men or Batman. I don't care how good a writer you are, or how much you love the character. If you are not grasping that you are going under the producers tight editorial control, you have made a bad career decision. Some directors work well in this environment, some do not. This is the exact opposite of the modern prima dona director. It is work for hire. But it can be career making work for hire. It's actually how movies used to be made.

I also fail to understand all of the nerd outrage over Wrights departure. For the most part I like his work. I love Sean of the Dead. (Heck this is what is sitting on my desk under construction as I type this)

I like Hot Fuzz a great deal. Scott Pilgrim and The Worlds End are more or less watchable... But none of his films scream at me that he would be perfect for one of my beloved big budget comic movies. I would like to see what he might come up with, within certain bounds, but I can understand how someone used to making more self created auteur pieces might have a problem with it. Heck Scott Pilgrim suffered a bit from this sort of thing. Part of why the ending is so muddled. So I am not going to shake my angry little nerd fist in the air in outrage over this. Wright took his ball and went home. Marvel has mostly delighted me for 40 years. Largely because of their "Bullpen" approach to comics, which in turn is what facilitated their huge deep and occasionally very silly universe. I am equally delighted that they have started using this same approach to making their movies. If some directors do not fit well with this approach, so be it.

You're a Hank Pym fan?

[Tanma]

Of course they won't ditch it but they should. Cut their losses....what's the Ant-Man film really going to do? It's a platform for the much superior Wasp, that's the only thing it now has going for it. Ditch it and do Ms.Marvel.

Agreed on that, if I had my way they would just do The Wasp instead. Whirlwind could be the villain.

That said, Ant-Man definitely is a gateway for more obscure Marvel characters. And if rumors are true, then it will be about Scott Lang in the present and Hank Pym in the past. Both of those can lead to a number of different heroes. Hank can lead to the Avengers Initive or the Avengers Academy, especially as a veteran hero. And if he was active in the sixties like rumors suggest, that will help fill in the gap from Captain America and the Avengers.

Scott Lang on the other hand leads to Cassie Lang, which can lead to Young Avengers. So in an odd way, Ant-Man ends up being potentially vital for world building.

[Faefrost]

You're a Hank Pym fan?

Honestly? I grew up reading Avengers starting in the early to mid 70's. I know and love them all to varying degrees (and sorry X-Men fans, in my mind Beast is always far far better as an Avenger.) but with that said, prior to the stream of weird and dumb 90's D listers that cycled through, Pym was probably my least favorite character. Granted much of this stems from the assorted horrible "wife beater" and "paranoid schizophrenic trying to kill everybody" nonsense that was written around him. But still there was much to dislike about the character. He was by far the worst case of "comic book super scientist dues ex machina" in the Marvel universe. When he wasn't beating his wife or having a psychotic breakdown he was busy solving any and every problem with science! "What do you mean what kind of science? It's SCIENCE! Huh? You mean an Engineer isn't a physicist isn't a biologist isn't a Medical Doctor isn't a pharmacologist isn't a geneticist isn't a robotic it's isn't a geologist isn't a master of inter dimensional travel and alternate realities and non existent physics? BUT SCIENCE! " this Schlick mostly works with Reed Richards. Tony Stark is an Engineer. But Pym, it just always seems stupid.

So yeah I actually prefer Scott Lang Ant Man. His story and character are cleaner, more relatable and honestly make sense. (Now don't get me started on O'Grady...)

As far as looking forward to an Ant Man movie. I'm old enough and familiar enough by now to recognize that because the mediums are so different, sometimes B, C and D list comic characters make for spectacular movies. Ant Man is one of those properties. If done properly it can be a fun romp through 50's and 60's style SciFi movies. The whole size change schtick is kind of meh in comics, but is made for a moving visual medium. Filmakers have been playing with it since the first silent Guliver's Travels. So yeah I have been looking forward to this one.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Faefrost

[rosalind14]

Honestly? I grew up reading Avengers starting in the early to mid 70's. I know and love them all to varying degrees (and sorry X-Men fans, in my mind Beast is always far far better as an Avenger.) but with that said, prior to the stream of weird and dumb 90's D listers that cycled through, Pym was probably my least favorite character. Granted much of this stems from the assorted horrible "wife beater" and "paranoid schizophrenic trying to kill everybody" nonsense that was written around him. But still there was much to dislike about the character. He was by far the worst case of "comic book super scientist dues ex machina" in the Marvel universe. When he wasn't beating his wife or having a psychotic breakdown he was busy solving any and every problem with science! "What do you mean what kind of science? It's SCIENCE! Huh? You mean an Engineer isn't a physicist isn't a biologist isn't a Medical Doctor isn't a pharmacologist isn't a geneticist isn't a robotic it's isn't a geologist isn't a master of inter dimensional travel and alternate realities and non existent physics? BUT SCIENCE! " this Schlick mostly works with Reed Richards. Tony Stark is an Engineer. But Pym, it just always seems stupid.

So yeah I actually prefer Scott Lang Ant Man. His story and character are cleaner, more relatable and honestly make sense. (Now don't get me started on O'Grady...)

As far as looking forward to an Ant Man movie. I'm old enough and familiar enough by now to recognize that because the mediums are so different, sometimes B, C and D list comic characters make for spectacular movies. Ant Man is one of those properties. If done properly it can be a fun romp through 50's and 60's style SciFi movies. The whole size change schtick is kind of meh in comics, but is made for a moving visual medium. Filmakers have been playing with it since the first silent Guliver's Travels. So yeah I have been looking forward to this one.

Haha, this is what I thought! Does anybody really like Pym?

Rumours also that Marvel are going to cancel Fantastic Four for a while to "stick it to Fox"!! Can't see this working....seems very small minded.

[Mr Man]

Rumours also that Marvel are going to cancel Fantastic Four for a while to "stick it to Fox"!! Can't see this working....seems very small minded.

I doubt that will happen, the FF is one of Marvels big properties, and (pre 2008) more famous than Iron Man etc.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Mr Man

[Tanma]

Haha, this is what I thought! Does anybody really like Pym?

Rumours also that Marvel are going to cancel Fantastic Four for a while to "stick it to Fox"!! Can't see this working....seems very small minded.

Well, I liked him in the Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, mostly season one. And in Avengers Academy he didn't seem particularly bad, he just wasn't one of my favorites. Of course those are my main exposure to him, so I haven't had my opinions colored too much.

[Ultron]

Haha, this is what I thought! Does anybody really like Pym?

Rumours also that Marvel are going to cancel Fantastic Four for a while to "stick it to Fox"!! Can't see this working....seems very small minded.

I like Antman to an extent. I really only like him because he made Ultron who then in turn made the Vision.

[Sam892]

I doubt that will happen, the FF is one of Marvels big properties, and (pre 2008) more famous than Iron Man etc.

Personally I can see it happening, i mean it wouldn't be hard to do. There's only 4 or 3 fantastic four books at the moment, no cartoons or what not. Outside of comics they have nothing really going on, and while they may be considered more famous than iron man ( I disagree there) they don't nearly sell as well, in fact there sales are dangerously low.

[rosalind14]

REBOOT!!!!

[rodiziorobs]

Haha, this is what I thought! Does anybody really like Pym?

Well, I liked him in the Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon...Of course those are my main exposure to him, so I haven't had my opinions colored too much.

My experience here is the same, I liked Pym in the EMH (next to BTAS, probably the best SH cartoon ever), but Wasp was invariably better.

However, then when I found out about how Pym is in the comics, my opinions changed a little. I think the Scott Lang approach for the film is probably the best angle to take.

If you are not willing to play in somebody else's sandbox why on earth would you jump on to direct a Marvel movie?

In Wright's defense, he was on board with Ant-Man before Marvel even had a sandbox. He first approached them about doing an Ant-Man movie back in 06.

It seems like the sandbox kind of built itself around him, and maybe he was oblivious to what was going on? I doubt it; with the success of the movies, the establishment of a shared universe, and the Thor 2/ Patty Jenkins bit he had to have seen the inevitable creative friction mounting between his vision and Marvel's. The question is, why did he wait so long to drop out?

I do agree with you, though; the movie's ability to tell a story alongside the rest of the MCU is more important than a director's particular voice. I don't think the film will not suffer from Wright's departure, except for the bad publicity and lack of time before filming. Hopefully, they postpone the release if needed, rather than rushing through post-prod to meet the deadline.

Edited June 1, 2014 by rodiziorobs

[Ultron]

My experience here is the same, I liked Pym in the EMH (next to BTAS, probably the best SH cartoon ever), but Wasp was invariably better.

However, then when I found out about how Pym is in the comics, my opinions changed a little. I think the Scott Lang approach for the film is probably the best angle to take.

In Wright's defense, he was on board with Ant-Man before Marvel even had a sandbox. He first approached them about doing an Ant-Man movie back in 06.

It seems like the sandbox kind of built itself around him, and maybe he was oblivious to what was going on? I doubt it; with the success of the movies, the establishment of a shared universe, and the Thor 2/ Patty Jenkins bit he had to have seen the inevitable creative friction mounting between his vision and Marvel's. The question is, why did he wait so long to drop out?

I do agree with you, though; the movie's ability to tell a story alongside the rest of the MCU is more important than a director's particular voice. I don't think the film will not suffer from Wright's departure, except for the bad publicity and lack of time before filming. Hopefully, they postpone the release if needed, rather than rushing through post-prod to meet the deadline.

Really there's no rush for this movie. They could literally release it any time from July-December in 2015. Unless they're planning a movie for phase 3 in January of 2016 or something and want to space them out....And does anyone else think or hope there are more than 4 movies in phase 3 before Avengers 3? I mean we already have Antman, Cap 3, Thor 3, and what, either Dr. Strange movie, or a Gotg sequel? I want a Ms. Marvel and Black Panther movie (If he's not set up in Avengers 2 like the rumors have it) And what about that Black Widow movie? Wouldn't that need to happen before Avengers 3 when their contracts end?

[The Legonater]

Yeah, we're still another year out from Avengers 2. There's plenty of time to do Ant-Man still.

[Dr Leg O Brick]

Just to add in here, I'm pretty much of the same opinion of Faefrost, both in regards to the Beast (him and Wonder Man getting drunk, then looking over the bay to see Red Ronin still cracks me up, such a brilliant, hilarious character) and Hank Pym. I liked him, a bit, when he became the blue/yellow Goliath, I liked the costume! Then Clint came along and I preferred him as a Goliath (Clint's also been one of my most favoured characters, ever, along with Beast and Wonder Man, no matter him being Hawkeye/Goliath/Ronin etc.). Like many others I liked him in EMH, such a brilliant cartoon I found it hard to dislike anyone as everyone in it was superbly written and executed (Accept for Red Hulk. I'm of the same opinion as Nick Fury).

Back to Pym. It has potential, I don't think it's a train wreck just yet, I think it'll do OK. Scott Lang's meant to be the Ant Man in the film anyway isn't he?

As for the FF film? I lost interest when I heard the rumour Fox was looking for a woman to play Doom, it was in this thread I think. Just give the rights back to Marvel already before you tarnish the FF again! I still hate "Galactus" the fart cloud...

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[Mr Man]

As for the FF film? I lost interest when I heard the rumour Fox was looking for a woman to play Doom, it was in this thread I think. Just give the rights back to Marvel already before you tarnish the FF again! I still hate "Galactus" the fart cloud...

'Cos a giant purple space man would have worked so much better in a live action film? So things from the comics are just too silly for a film (even the more light hearted FF films), Galactus is one of them.

Fox have done a fantastic job on the X-Men films, even Origins:Wolverine and Last Stand weren't as bad as Hulk (2003) or Ghost Rider 2 (and I like that one).

As long as they keep FF running to the same styling's of the X-Men films they should be fine.

Also wasn't that female Doom thing a practical joke?

[Dr Leg O Brick]

I understand that, giant, 60's angry purple and blue spaceman outfits are out of the picture, but honestly, if they dressed him in a chicken suit with platform boots he would've been more menacing than "the cloud". Since I was a kid to me Galactus was a force to be reckoned with, a huge unstoppable menace the likes the heroes of the Marvel universe had rarely seen. He's up at the top in my opinion in regards to how powerful he is, people like Korvac, The Grandmaster, Those Who Sit Above In Shadow, Death, The Stranger, Lord Chaos and Lord Order, them kind of people. To then see this cloud, who was meant to be Galactus, destroyer of worlds, consumer of planets, a storm cloud?!? I sat a laughed in the Cinema. Sorry to those who liked him.

True, the X-Men films have mostly been good to excellent, I'm not knocking what they've done, it's just some part of me would like to see them all in one universe, like how Professor X would casually drop out that these costumes are made by his friend Reed Richards and are made of unstable molecules, or the FF and Avengers are out hunting angry space clouds or something. It's, nice, I suppose, to me at least, when they acknowledge another part of the Marvel universe. It gives itself a larger continuity between everything, something I loved about EMH.

I'm not sure, perhaps it was. I'll see if I can find anything on it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[Tanma]

Well as someone interested in Marvel's Ultimate comics, maybe next time they could use Earth-1610's Galactus, the giant robot sphere that hates organic life and literally devours worlds, with the help of its fleet of drones.

[Zilcho]

Apparently GotG is set in the 31st century? How do you think they'll be able to connect something 1000 years in the future to Avengers 3?

[Clone OPatra]

Apparently GotG is set in the 31st century? How do you think they'll be able to connect something 1000 years in the future to Avengers 3?

Where do you get that information? Maybe it's set in the 31st century in the comics, but I don't think it will be in the films. After all, the Collector was shown at the end of Thor 2 in a scene that I believe will directly tie into GotG, leading me to suspect that GotG takes place around the same time as the various Avengers films.

[Faefrost]

Well as someone interested in Marvel's Ultimate comics, maybe next time they could use Earth-1610's Galactus, the giant robot sphere that hates organic life and literally devours worlds, with the help of its fleet of drones.

Transformers did it first. And they had 80's power ballads to accompany it.

Apparently GotG is set in the 31st century? How do you think they'll be able to connect something 1000 years in the future to Avengers 3?

The original GotG comics from the 70's were a team set in the 31st century. They were a bunch of characters you have never heard of, best known for guest appearances in the Avengers and Marvel's Team Up type books. Star hawk, Yondo, Chalie 7, Martinex, Nikki, Vance Astro. They were in many ways strikingly similar to Marvel's Starjammers or DC's Omega Men. Nothing really memorable.

The more recent incarnation of the team is entirely different. A modern / current era team centered around Star Lord and a talking Raccoon. And they are quite distinct and memorable.

[Sam892]

Where do you get that information? Maybe it's set in the 31st century in the comics, but I don't think it will be in the films. After all, the Collector was shown at the end of Thor 2 in a scene that I believe will directly tie into GotG, leading me to suspect that GotG takes place around the same time as the various Avengers films.

Plus it was only the original team from the future, as far as I'm aware The version of the team that matches the film was always set in the current time. Also Thanos is in this film and was at the end of the Avengers so I'm it's taken him 1000 years to find 3 infinity stones, then he will never get round to fighting the avengers.

[Dr Leg O Brick]

Correct. Astro's/Martinex's team was the first, labelled "explore the Marvel universe in the 31st century!" (a brilliant, brilliant, series IMO), whereas the latest bunch that the film's based on are set in the "present day" (Iron Man joins them on a holiday for awhile).

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[rosalind14]

Transformers did it first. And they had 80's power ballads to accompany it.

The original GotG comics from the 70's were a team set in the 31st century. They were a bunch of characters you have never heard of, best known for guest appearances in the Avengers and Marvel's Team Up type books. Star hawk, Yondo, Chalie 7, Martinex, Nikki, Vance Astro. They were in many ways strikingly similar to Marvel's Starjammers or DC's Omega Men. Nothing really memorable.

The more recent incarnation of the team is entirely different. A modern / current era team centered around Star Lord and a talking Raccoon. And they are quite distinct and memorable.

How very dare you!

[Dr Leg O Brick]

I concur! Who can you not forget the oh so funny "Guardians Gather!!" by Vance when the teams been slaughtered by Captain Universe?

In all serious I love them, my fourth favourite team. The concept was brilliant, seeing what the universe was like in the future of the Marvel universe. What effects where of the heroic age on this history? What happened to all the Mutants? Who was left from our time? Who's ancestors where around? The characters where all developed to a degree, the art was great, the stories compelling, and although not part of the 1990's series the moment from the Korvac saga when Charlie 27 picks up Beast is hilarious and memorable on its own. "Oh, I'd say it must be some sort of space monkey, Nikki! Ugly, isn't it?". The ensuring conversation is IMO hilarious.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Dr Leg O Brick

[Tanma]

I don't know much about the original Guardians of the Galaxy, but I heard that Yondu Udonta from the first series will be in the movie. Not sure how big his role will be though.

[Faefrost]

Just to add in here, I'm pretty much of the same opinion of Faefrost, both in regards to the Beast (him and Wonder Man getting drunk, then looking over the bay to see Red Ronin still cracks me up, such a brilliant, hilarious character)

ROFL! That is one of my all time favorite comic scenes.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Faefrost