If I ran The Lego Group

[The Island Chronicles]

I don't really want to run the entire company. But if I could be in charge of making the City sets,  oh what fun that would be. 

[coinoperator]

I'd release an extended Thunderbirds series...
UCS

 

[NathanR]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:03 PM, coinoperator said:

I'd release an extended Thunderbirds series...
UCS

Well I wouldn't argue with that... 

[Pdaitabird]

I'd hire an underling to run the company so I could spend my time diving into a massive pile of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck. And occasionally order the staff to produce parts in new colors for my MOCs.

[The Island Chronicles]

I'd listen to adult fans along with the child fans. Especially when it comes to town, sci-fi and Technic sets since those have a large adult fanbase. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by pooda

[Aanchir]

On 10/14/2019 at 10:18 AM, pooda said:

I'd listen to adult fans along with the child fans. Especially when it comes to town, sci-fi and Technic sets since those have a large adult fanbase. 

Do you really believe that's not already happening? After all, a lot of the LEGO designers creating sets in these themes and others — e.g. Milan Reindl (Grohl), Nick Vas (Brickthing), Mark Stafford (Nabii), Adam Grabowski (MisterZumbi), Mike Psiaki (pmiaki), John Ho (icedpluscoffee), Adrian Florea, Joel Baker, Pierre Normandin, Wes Talbott, etc. — are AFOLs themselves, and have been building MOCs and sharing them with other AFOLs since long before being hired to work for LEGO!

Many of them not only know from firsthand experience what a lot of AFOLs in their communities like and dislike, but also pay very close attention to feedback from AFOL fansites on the sets and themes they're involved with. Unfortunately, listening to AFOLs doesn't always mean being able to please them 100% of the time, especially when AFOLs have such varied perspectives to begin with, and when many AFOLs' preferences are in direct conflict with LEGO's own sales data from both the past and present.

The more designers listen to us AFOLs, the more they tend to learn how much of the feedback they get from us actually ISN'T useful to creating sets that will be popular in both the short and long term, and how much effort it takes to pick out the kernels of useful feedback out of all the comments that are clouded by rigid expectations or shortsighted nostalgia. As Jamie states in this interview:

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I remember when we did the #10197 Fire Brigade. That one was not very well received in that people were horrified that it was too American; the previous buildings were more European. They said that the flag is hideous, although that I appreciate that and agree. They also said “why does LEGO need another firehouse?” Then they said it only has two floors, and everybody knows the modular have three floors. They had already defined in their mind what it should be… If we gave you every building exactly the same, this is not going anywhere.

What’s funny is that #10197 Fire Brigade is one of the buildings that brought in the most new people into the line, and if you talk to most LEGO fans if they have been around awhile, most of them started with the Fire Brigade. If I just listened to what everyone was saying, I would have thought it was the worst thing we created and ruined the entire line. Yet, with historic context I’m realizing that people just get comfortable with what they think is coming, and it’s uncomfortable to experience something new, and their first reaction is to explain what it should have been. When you give them a bit of time, many will come around to appreciate what they can discover later, and something like Fire Brigade can become one of our most successful ones, even though on paper it was the one that was going to ruin everything.

Mark Stafford echoes some similar experiences in a comment here:

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There are a lot of these comments saying things like ‘LEGO was so much better a few years ago’ or ‘the old themes like Insectoids, Rock Raiders, Original Harry Potter were better and simpler and brought me more wonder’. This is wonderful and true, for you. But you grew up with these themes. AFOLs when those themes came out (and I’m sure you can dig up the threads on Lugnet if you want to) were saying terrible things about those themes as <insert that tiresome argument> and built from too many unique specialized parts and saying Classic Space and Blacktron and Pirates were so much better. It’s nostalgia and it doesn’t matter how much a designer reworks a set or tries to make it the best thing ever; we can never make you an eight year old again. I wish we could, I’d do it for me too.

As for the criticism, it’s nothing new to me, the second theme I worked on was Agents and when the first images were seen people hated it, truly destroyed it, far worse then anything said about my Jurassic set. Everything I’ve worked on, Atlantis was terrible compared to Aqua Raiders, Power Miners was so junior looking compared to Rock Raiders, Ninjago was a ruined version of the Ninja theme, Chima was just awful, Nexo Knights ruined Castle. Every single theme I have been on has been ripped apart by AFOLs. But you know what? Kids loved them. They loved them all. They sold amazingly, and they have left a lifetime of awesome memories for the kids that grew up with them. I know because they tell me.

What's more, listening to all of the vitriol in AFOL fan community comments would probably become really unhealthy if you didn't bother filtering for the genuinely useful insults hidden amongst the muck! You and I and I'm sure many other AFOLs have all experienced the frustration of being involved in discussions where it feels like lots of our peers are dismissive towards our perspectives on an issue.

Now think about how a lot of LEGO employees must feel when AFOLs leave comments about how their design and marketing decisions are ruining LEGO, how they clearly don't care about or understand real LEGO fans, how they should be fired on the spot for insulting fans with their pathetic excuses for a sets/themes, etc. Once you work for LEGO a lot of people are perfectly willing to treat you as just a cog in the corporate machine rather than a fellow human being and LEGO fan.

As a LEGO employee, anything you design or approve as a set can be skewered by far more venomous criticism than you'd ever see leveled against a fellow AFOL sharing their creations in an unofficial capacity. Any comment you make defending your decisions can be dismissed as lies or propaganda, and anybody who sticks up for you as being trustworthy, qualified, or honest can be dismissed as an simpering sycophant or corporate shill.

At a certain point even reading some of this sort of feedback becomes a test in how much negativity you can really put up with, particularly if you'd rather be building and exploring your own ideas instead of being utterly beholden to an often hostile fanbase. Needless to say, I'm not surprised a lot of LEGO employees take our feedback with a grain of salt… to be honest, I often wonder if I'd actually have what it takes to put up with all that if I were in their shoes.

sorry for rambling on so much as usual… this is just something I've been thinking a lot about lately. :/

Edited October 16, 2019 by Aanchir

[The Island Chronicles]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Do you really believe that's not already happening? After all, a lot of the LEGO designers creating sets in these themes and others — e.g. Milan Reindl (Grohl), Nick Vas (Brickthing), Mark Stafford (Nabii), Adam Grabowski (MisterZumbi), Mike Psiaki (pmiaki), John Ho (icedpluscoffee), Adrian Florea, Joel Baker, Pierre Normandin, Wes Talbott, etc. — are AFOLs themselves, and have been building MOCs and sharing them with other AFOLs since long before being hired to work for LEGO!

I have actually been expecting you my dear! I'm glad you are finally able to hop onto the bandwagon. My concern is mainly for City. City's adult fan base is just as large as the child fan base. They won't tell you that though. However, I do stand corrected in the matter that TLG doesn't listen to its adult fanbase. But I am fully aware that there are AFOLs who work for the LEGO company. Unfortunately from what I see in your paragraph, they obviously don't have much power over what gets passed through. 

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Many of them not only know from firsthand experience what a lot of AFOLs in their communities like and dislike, but also pay very close attention to feedback from AFOL fansites on the sets and themes they're involved with. Unfortunately, listening to AFOLs doesn't always mean being able to please them 100% of the time, especially when AFOLs have such varied perspectives to begin with, and when many AFOLs' preferences are in direct conflict with LEGO's own sales data from both the past and present.

Another thing that I want to correct you on is the fact that you said that not only do they have experience first hand of what AFOLs like and dislike, but they also pay very close attention to feedback from AFOL fansites. I never said that there weren't any people there that don't listen to AFOLs or TFOLs (Teen Fans Of Lego) for that matter. Matter of fact, I know that there are people at TLG who are listening to us. Let's look at my favorite theme, City for example. Look at the goodies that we're going to be getting in 2020. Not only is classic police returning - the only police stations that are really meaningful to me btw (not that I want to start an entire discussion on that), but we are also getting an ice cream truck, a new service station, some race cars, a tuning shop and even some other town related sets. Construction even looks like its gonna make a comeback for Christensen's Sake! Pun intended. Now we have yet to know what the In/Out sets are, but I can't wait until they're revealed. I hope its a line of work that City has never even thought to touch on. Though I do think that they have touched on pretty much every line of work. Not sure. 

My point is, there are designers that do listen to all fans. Not just children. They just don't have much power. 

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The more designers listen to us AFOLs, the more they tend to learn how much of the feedback they get from us actually ISN'T useful to creating sets that will be popular in both the short and long term, and how much effort it takes to pick out the kernels of useful feedback out of all the comments that are clouded by rigid expectations or shortsighted nostalgia. As Jamie states in this interview:

Mark Stafford echoes some similar experiences in a comment here:

What's more, listening to all of the vitriol in AFOL fan community comments would probably become really unhealthy if you didn't bother filtering for the genuinely useful insults hidden amongst the muck! You and I and I'm sure many other AFOLs have all experienced the frustration of being involved in discussions where it feels like lots of our peers are dismissive towards our perspectives on an issue.

I agree there 100%. I personally would filter out the hateful comments. But if I want to be a good designer, I do have to listen to recommendations given from AFOLs and TFOLs as well as CFOLs. That way I can come up with ideas that not only help us to prosper, but also be useful in both entertainment and education as well. The City Division of Lego has been slacking a little bit in that recently. NOT A LOT! Just a little. I do have to admit that the mega sets that we've been getting were actually a step up. Its actually given me hope. The polybags too. They may be the pipsqueaks, but I still get them. My most recent acquirement was that popcorn machine. Slapped a couple of those right in the middle of my town. I don't think the explorers themes are a bad thing like people think. No, they aren't really based in the city limits (like the theme implies), but they still educate on lines of work based in the field of science, archaeology and discovery. That's something I never expected from City and frankly speaking - I am impressed. Sky Police was probably the only subtheme under City that didn't really impress. Apparently, they didn't really impress children either, thus the slow sales for this year so far. The only sky police sets I really thought were meaningful were 60207 Sky Police Drone Chase because it ties in with the fire sets because of the statue that the crook tries to steal and the 60239 Police Patrol Car. I would've held off on making that a full theme. I guess Christmas is the real test for that one.

The City theme would probably be my main concern since I have the most experience with building towns over anything involving Lego. 

 

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Now think about how a lot of LEGO employees must feel when AFOLs leave comments about how their design and marketing decisions are ruining LEGO, how they clearly don't care about or understand real LEGO fans, how they should be fired on the spot for insulting fans with their pathetic excuses for a sets/themes, etc. Once you work for LEGO a lot of people are perfectly willing to treat you as just a cog in the corporate machine rather than a fellow human being and LEGO fan.

Oh please! Honey, I know first hand about how it feels to not have your customers satisfied with your efforts - even when things are beyond your control. I have pretty much worked with people my entire career life. I work on cars and drive a bus part time - though I think I may change the latter to full time because I prefer cleaner work. I personally wouldn't let it bother me. I wouldn't call TLG's efforts pathetic. Some of them are either just not really thought out very well or just....well.....weird. Especially for the City theme, which is supposed to be based on realism. But that's just my five dollars though. Nothing to break your bricks over.  

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As a LEGO employee, anything you design or approve as a set can be skewered by far more venomous criticism than you'd ever see leveled against a fellow AFOL sharing their creations in an unofficial capacity. Any comment you make defending your decisions can be dismissed as lies or propaganda, and anybody who sticks up for you as being trustworthy, qualified, or honest can be dismissed as an simpering sycophant or corporate shill.

At a certain point even reading some of this sort of feedback becomes a test in how much negativity you can really put up with, particularly if you'd rather be building and exploring your own ideas instead of being utterly beholden to an often hostile fanbase. Needless to say, I'm not surprised a lot of LEGO employees take our feedback with a grain of salt… to be honest, I often wonder if I'd actually have what it takes to put up with all that if I were in their shoes.

Unfortunately.....following their hearts TOO MUCH seems to be the problem. I do have to disagree with you there. Designers should listen to both sides of the fandom when it comes to trying new things out. My friend works at a Lego store and one time, he took the liberty to do a survey with the customers to see what they like about every theme Lego had for that time. He actually told me that on most of the surveys, people wrote that they loved the vehicles and buildings. They didn't necessarily say police sets. Matter of fact, very few said that they loved police sets. 

However, I must agree with you on this point. Designers are under lots of pressure. Some of the TFOLs on those surveys went as far as to chastise City for the fact that they haven't touched on very many lines of work in the city and it being overshadowed by rescue and science themed jobs. I'm also not surprised that TLG takes our feedback with a grain of salt. But I think you do have the patience to put up with it. You've put up with my rants several times and have never lost your cool. Kudos to you. 

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sorry for rambling on so much as usual… this is just something I've been thinking a lot about lately. :/

No issues there! The only problem I had with it was that I would often be frustrated because I didn't know how to back up my claims against your overwhelmingly long essays about why what TLG is doing is fine. But I have no issues with you now. Give me a follow? 

Edited October 17, 2019 by pooda

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, pooda said:

I have actually been expecting you my dear! I'm glad you are finally able to hop onto the bandwagon. My concern is mainly for City. In my opinion, its adult fan base is just as large as the child fan base. However, I do stand corrected in the matter that TLG doesn't listen to its adult fanbase. But I am fully aware that there are AFOLs who work for the LEGO company. Unfortunately from what I see in your paragraph, they obviously don't have much power over what gets passed through.

It's not strictly a matter of not having enough power. Even if LEGO designers COULD simply decide independently to release whatever themes or subthemes they liked best, they usually understand how stupid, selfish, and counterproductive that would be if it doesn't align with what current buyers actually want. When the stuff AFOLs want doesn't get made into sets, more often than not it's not some top-down obstruction standing in their way, it's just that they have to make their decisions based on reality, not on wishful thinking.

So if a designer wants to make a rebooted Classic Space or Forestmen theme, it's not enough to just say "we're doing this" — they have to put together concept sketches for what that might look like, and then show them to kids along with a bunch of other proposals from other designers, and whichever one those kids respond most enthusiastically to tends to be given priority.

Likewise, if a designer wants to bring back LEGO monorails, they have to actually put in the work of coming up with an affordable rail and motor system as well as substantive evidence (not just scattered Internet comments) showing that buyers will be enthusiastic for and willing to pay for those sets. Otherwise, no amount of "trust me, it'll work" justifies taking a risk on contradicted by both historical sales data and more recent kid testing.

Having an arrogant "designers know best" attitude and launching new product lines simply based on feelings of confidence rather than comprehensive research, development, and testing is part of what nearly put LEGO into bankruptcy in the early 2000s. None of LEGO's successes over the years were simply thrown together on a whim — they all took an extensive process to figure out what buyers really wanted out of them and how to achieve that affordably and effectively.

So as for City? It may be your opinion that its adult fan base is just as large as its child fan base. But LEGO can't afford to simply assume that's true and make huge strategic decisions solely based on that assumption. They'd need to spend time gathering real evidence of that through research and testing methods that result in reliable data.

I'm not saying that's fun or easy, either… researching and putting together formal proposals has often been one of the most annoying steps in any project for me as an art student, yet another reason I'm probably not yet ready to do the kind of work that LEGO designers do.

2 hours ago, pooda said:

Another thing that I want to correct you on is the fact that you said that not only do they have experience first hand of what AFOLs like and dislike, but they also pay very close attention to feedback from AFOL fansites. I never said that there weren't any people there that don't listen to AFOLs or TFOLs (Teen Fans Of Lego) for that matter. Matter of fact, I know that there are people at TLG who are listening to us. Let's look at my favorite theme, City for example. Look at the goodies that we're going to be getting in 2020. Not only is classic police returning - the only police stations that are really meaningful to me btw (not that I want to start an entire discussion on that), but we are also getting an ice cream truck, a new service station, some race cars, a tuning shop and even some other town related sets. Construction even looks like its gonna make a comeback for Christensen's Sake! Pun intended. Now we have yet to know what the In/Out sets are, but I can't wait until they're revealed. I hope its a line of work that City has never even thought to touch on. Though I do think that they have touched on pretty much every line of work. Not sure. 

My point is, there are designers that do listen to all fans. Not just children. They just don't have much power.

How do you know that the designers who listen to all fans don't have much power, or that the designers who do have a lot of power don't listen to all fans? Because I've never seen or heard any basis for that claim besides conjecture… and at this point I've not only met several designers personally, but read interviews with or online comments from many more.

I know how tempting it is to believe that if LEGO really knew all the facts, those facts would justify more of the kind of sets you like and fewer of the kind of sets you dislike. But chances are that every one of us has some kind of set, theme, or subtheme we'd like to see, but that in reality wouldn't actually be as successful as we want to imagine.

In my case a good example is Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events. Ever since I was a kid I was hoping to see sets based on the books, and later as an adult part of me hoped for at least one set based on the Netflix series. But neither is really something a huge number of people around the world are really buzzing about at the moment. If there was an ideal point in time that kids and/or adults would've been extremely hyped for sets based on that property, it has already passed, and if there will be another opportunity, then it unfortunately (no pun intended) hasn't come around yet.

Likewise I'm sure we all have sets, themes, or subthemes we're not really interested in at all that are still tremendously popular with not only kids but also many of our fellow adults! I believe that at least for the two of us that would include a lot of licensed themes like Star Wars, Super Heroes, and Harry Potter, since both of us have a strong preference for non-licensed themes.

But I guarantee you that any LEGO CEO who announced tomorrow that they were discontinuing the Star Wars or Super Heroes or Harry Potter themes, even if they brought back classic themes in their place, would be downright despised by a huge number of LEGO fans of all ages. The reality is that there's still huge demand for those themes, and LEGO is expected to act according to that reality.

I dunno… maybe some people WOULD describe that sort of situation as powerlessness. But I think not being able to make certain strategic changes is different from knowing better than to ignore the evidence that it's not a good idea or just not the right time for it.

EDIT: Oh, before I forget to mention, I appreciate your invite to follow you! I don't think I will right now, but it's nothing against you — after all, you've definitely written lots of thought-provoking posts and topics here! But so far I don't actually use the follow feature on this site at all.

I guess that comes down to getting my start with forums back when they typically used a friends list rather than a follower list, so my usual forum browsing typically consists of just checking topics that seem interesting to me. Maybe someday I'll take that plunge, but right now it doesn't feel right for me. Hope you understand!

Edited October 17, 2019 by Aanchir

[The Island Chronicles]

24 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

For all we know, even in just the next couple years, consumer feedback COULD start to show substantial, quantifiable demand for more houses and apartments in LEGO City, or less demand for police sets.

For that matter, maybe LEGO might already be looking into ways to dial back some of that stuff without falling short of buyer and retailer demands. After all, next year's rumored set list has far fewer police sets than we got in 2017, 2014, or 2011 (though of course, that list might still be incomplete).

That probably isn't the full list. Besides, they're still missing the mobile command unit. 

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EDIT: Oh, before I forget to mention, I appreciate your invite to follow you! I don't think I will right now, but it's nothing against you — after all, you've definitely written lots of thought-provoking posts and topics here! But so far I don't actually use the follow feature on this site at all.

I guess that comes down to getting my start with forums back when they typically used a friends list rather than a follower list, so my usual forum browsing typically consists of just checking topics that seem interesting to me. Maybe someday I'll take that plunge, but right now it doesn't feel right for me. Hope you understand!

I understand 

Edited October 17, 2019 by pooda

[LegoDW]

What a fun idea to explore.  The main thing I would change is to sell sets you can actually rebuild into multiple things.  As an example, the current fire engine set.  It offers a good fire engine build.  Unfortunately you can really only build this fire engine as shown on the box.  A set would be better if you could build multiple fire engines (only one at a time...limited bricks).  This would allow more creativity and fun building Lego.  Not just acting like a robot building the sets per provided instructions.  Using your mind to create new and wonderful things.  A lot of AFOL can do this as they have huge collections of Lego.  Most kids don't.  Instead of selling that city set that comes with a crappy heli, a basic car and the front of a building.....sell a car pack that can build say 5 or more types of cars.  A building pack that allows building several different types of buildings...include different types of stickers for various buildings.  Instead of that through way crappy heli, have a heli/airplane pack.  Set would allow building multiple air craft.

Yes I would still set that nice fire engine as a stand alone set in the city line.  But would also sell a fire engine set that had a bunch of parts to build various types of fire engines.  That the real joy of the hobby, building different things. Lego has gotten to specialized and taken some of the creativity out of the hobby.  If I ran the company would put it back in.

 

 

[koalayummies]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:24 PM, Aanchir said:

Mark Stafford echoes some similar experiences in a comment here:

Those working at Lego really have their finger on the pulse. They're clearly familiar with the predictable discourse playbook, like a flow chart for criticism from the few but importunate.

:Back in Denmark:

A Lego designer glances at the sales figures for their colleague's latest set and jokingly asks: "remember those five adults on the internet who said you're ruining Lego?"

"Nah, they got drowned out by the laughter of millions of happy playing children."

"Hah, touche. So you're getting us coffee today?"

"Already on it!"

-Koala(Cult Member)Yummies

[LegoDW]

Your comment about TLG having their finger on the pulse has been correct.  They very successfully changed their business practices to be very profitable.  It is sad this adaptation has taken some of the creativity out of the hobby. It will be interesting how they adapt to the next generation of children. 

[koalayummies]

59 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

They very successfully changed their business practices to be very profitable.  It is sad this adaptation has taken some of the creativity out of the hobby.

How so?

[The Island Chronicles]

10 hours ago, koalayummies said:

How so?

WARNING: BAD JOKE AHEAD!!!!!

Because Lego is sticking the hobby to the roof of our mouths. 

Hahahahaha! ????

hits drum three times

Edited December 28, 2019 by pooda

[LegoDW]

On 12/28/2019 at 12:40 AM, koalayummies said:

How so?

For me, when I was a kid (a long time ago) I used to build all kinds of stuff with my bricks.  As the bricks were not to specialized really let my creativity go wild.  I am now in a stage of life trying to get my kids into to hobby.  The sets today look so much better then my blocky moc's of my youth.  That said, my kids only build per the instructions, the specialized bricks don't offer them as much freedom to build their own moc's.  

There maybe some better sets to get the kids, but they want the Frozen, Friends and City stuff.  They have zero interest in the mine craft stuff which is very close to the moc's I made as a kid.  

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by LegoDW

[Vindicare]

The first thing I would do is get rid of the curved street plate & make it a 90 degree turn so it would be clean & easy to tile. That would be the easier route than having to make a couple new tiles in order to smoothly tile the inside area of the curve. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Vindicare

[BrickG]

I'd take all the $$$ I have from running the company and retire on the small continent I bought.

[Jim]

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