REVIEW: 76001 The Bat vs Bane: Tumbler Chase

[just2good]

Woah, awesome review 'PhillipJFry'! Heck, this is a better picture review than I can ever make!

I'm still on the fence about this set. It looks great, as goes for the figures, but the price point is a bit high. I think you should join the Eurobricks Reviewers' Academy!

[RaincloudDustbin]

The figs are pretty good but the set as a whole is poor and frankly, most members on the site- me included, could have done a better job. No disrespect to TLG designers who do a great job (usually), I just feel that this set or sets had good potential which wasn't fulfilled.

-TT

[legofreak86]

The good thing about Bane's symbol stickers and the Bat logo is the models look fine without them! The whole sticker you put on top of the Bat I personally would put on, as it makes it look more detailed.The Tumbler may not be the one we were hoping for but it's the one we got! The best way to salvage it if you don't want to mod it, is just not to put the stickers on as it looks much better without them (in my opinion). I would be interested to see what people come up with after modding them though. I will certainly purchase this set for figures alone batman and bane are just too good to pass up and its a fairly decent set!

Oh and before i forget, Ace review!

Edited January 8, 2013 by legofreak86

[Brickmamba]

Have been waiting a long time to get my hands on a Lego tumbler, unfortunately this one is a disappointment, size is not the real issue, the design is rather simplistic as if aimed for 12yo, it lacks detail and the robust feeling of an armoured tank.

Alas the figures are so good in particular bane I will have to get my hands on this somehow, thanks for the review.

[PhillipJFry]

The figs are pretty good but the set as a whole is poor and frankly, most members on the site- me included, could have done a better job. No disrespect to TLG designers who do a great job (usually), I just feel that this set or sets had good potential which wasn't fulfilled.

-TT

My thoughts exactly. Even the most basic designs I've seen from the community have been better than this set, which merely strikes me as odd given that TLG designers usually do such a great job.

Woah, awesome review 'PhillipJFry'! Heck, this is a better picture review than I can ever make!

I'm still on the fence about this set. It looks great, as goes for the figures, but the price point is a bit high. I think you should join the Eurobricks Reviewers' Academy!

I'll check it out, thanks!

The good thing about Bane's symbol stickers and the Bat logo is the models look fine without them! The whole sticker you put on top of the Bat I personally would put on, as it makes it look more detailed.The Tumbler may not be the one we were hoping for but it's the one we got! The best way to salvage it if you don't want to mod it, is just not to put the stickers on as it looks much better without them (in my opinion). I would be interested to see what people come up with after modding them though. I will certainly purchase this set for figures alone batman and bane are just too good to pass up and its a fairly decent set!

Oh and before i forget, Ace review!

I've started taking the blue bits off of the Bat and it looks better already. I'm sure this set will evolve into something decent.

Have been waiting a long time to get my hands on a Lego tumbler, unfortunately this one is a disappointment, size is not the real issue, the design is rather simplistic as if aimed for 12yo, it lacks detail and the robust feeling of an armoured tank.

Alas the figures are so good in particular bane I will have to get my hands on this somehow, thanks for the review.

Bane has been sitting on my desk next to my UCS R2-D2, he is indeed amazing. It is pretty disappointing that now we most likely won't be getting a proper Tumbler design because of this. Hopefully there's still a chance of getting a decent batpod set in the future.

[PlanckEpoch]

You know, I really, really like this set. Because I'm not much of a MOC'er, I tend to look at sets with a more "pure" mindset and take them for their merits. If you MOC, let's face it, you can do ANYTHING better than what TLG can put out. It's why for me, aside from the fact that I am not really creative or what not, MOCing doesn't cross my mind when I try to evaluate a set.

That being said, for what you get and the pricing, I think this set is fantastic. The Tumbler isn't accurate, but at the scale it is, the shape of it is FANTASTIC, and it looks like a mean, tough vehicle. I live by the adage that bigger isn't always better, and in this case TLG chose a vehicle that looks pretty damn awesome in any size. The Bat, likewise, is a really nice representation of the Bat in the film, and actually I like the blue detail. I just don't like all black things, and I feel the blue compliments the build just nicely. It's got a visual appeal that wouldn't be there if it was just all black.

I understand that it seems the Tumbler is the biggest point of contention here. But I just don't see it. As far as I'm concerned, it's small, but it still looks great. It still looks tough and rugged despite the size and inaccuracies. Perhaps I haven't been as big of a Lego fan, but I have seen the old oversized Tumbler and I've seen a ton of MOC'ed Tumblers, but I don't see the issue. For the price, you get two good looking vehicles, with three well done minifigures. I like this route that TLG is going for many of their themes and I'm glad I finally found a DC Super Heroes set that I really wanted.

[robuko]

Thanks for this review. I am torn 2 ways on this set. It's kind of lame, really, and a bit expensive, so I guess I'll regret buying it. But the minfigs are awesome, so I would regret not buying it too, and probably by more...

[Crownie]

Have been waiting a long time to get my hands on a Lego tumbler, unfortunately this one is a disappointment, size is not the real issue, the design is rather simplistic as if aimed for 12yo, it lacks detail and the robust feeling of an armoured tank.

Wow. I think 12-year olds are exactly who TLG had in mind when creating this set. I mean, it says for ages 6-12 right on the front of the box in large white letters. (Sorry, you walked right into that one, lol.)

Come on, people. A bunch of adults whining about a kids' toy? Let's add a tiny bit of perspective. Please? If anything, they could've junior-ized the design even more based on the younger ages. I mean, City sets are predominantly marketed for ages 6-12, so looking at those designs gives you an idea of what could've been done instead. I think what we ended up with is really cool. Not anything like the level seen in the initial Batman sets, but then the age brackets were slightly different on those.

(Incidentally, I loved this review; you made quite an entrance onto Eurobricks, PhillipJFry! Welcome!)

Edited January 11, 2013 by Crownie

[DJ Bricks]

Thanks for this review. I am torn 2 ways on this set. It's kind of lame, really, and a bit expensive, so I guess I'll regret buying it. But the minfigs are awesome, so I would regret not buying it too, and probably by more...

I have the set, it's awesome in real life, pictures don't do it enough justice. I suggest you buy it, worth every penny it is. Kids don't like it, I was at my Local Target and kids wouldn't even acknowledge the set, even when their parent pointed it out, kids replied they didn't know what '' The Dark Knight Rises'' was. Guess it was a bad idea to make this set appeal to kids. So mine had two full rows of this set, and all the others were sold out. It's still a good set though,

[TheBatstan]

welcome to Eurobricks and nice review. i have this set and i love it (just like the movie). though i changed a few things like the Bat's back propellers are facing downwards like the movie and i changed a few bits to black so far. and ive also started to make the Tumbler to black and ive removed the missles and put the 4 tires. here's a link to a black version another Eurobricks member made and i have to say it's pretty awesome

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75724

[PhillipJFry]

Wow. I think 12-year olds are exactly who TLG had in mind when creating this set. I mean, it says for ages 6-12 right on the front of the box in large white letters. (Sorry, you walked right into that one, lol.)

Come on, people. A bunch of adults whining about a kids' toy? Let's add a tiny bit of perspective. Please? If anything, they could've junior-ized the design even more based on the younger ages. I mean, City sets are predominantly marketed for ages 6-12, so looking at those designs gives you an idea of what could've been done instead. I think what we ended up with is really cool. Not anything like the level seen in the initial Batman sets, but then the age brackets were slightly different on those.

(Incidentally, I loved this review; you made quite an entrance onto Eurobricks, PhillipJFry! Welcome!)

Thanks! Your point is definitely valid, it just seems odd given the usual attention to detail and excellent design that the TLG shows with most of their sets. I don't think it made sense for Lego to put out a set with the idea of "it'll be god enough for the target age bracket", especially given that most kids do expect the same level of quality everyone else does. I know that 12 year old me would have been disappointed with this set.

I have the set, it's awesome in real life, pictures don't do it enough justice. I suggest you buy it, worth every penny it is. Kids don't like it, I was at my Local Target and kids wouldn't even acknowledge the set, even when their parent pointed it out, kids replied they didn't know what '' The Dark Knight Rises'' was. Guess it was a bad idea to make this set appeal to kids. So mine had two full rows of this set, and all the others were sold out. It's still a good set though,

The set in real life definitely looks far better than the pictures on the box, for example.

welcome to Eurobricks and nice review. i have this set and i love it (just like the movie). though i changed a few things like the Bat's back propellers are facing downwards like the movie and i changed a few bits to black so far. and ive also started to make the Tumbler to black and ive removed the missles and put the 4 tires. here's a link to a black version another Eurobricks member made and i have to say it's pretty awesome

http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=75724

That black tumbler with a few modifications that you linked to does look pretty great, especially with the double tires at the back.

[KZB]

In my opinion it's really disapponting set, the figs are indeed the best part of it but in my opinion 3 figs for 40€ doesn't justify buying

I don't know why they made it so bad, only few improvements like removing flickfires to add 2 more tyres at the back of tumbler, switching odd bane stickers to camo stickers and replacing blue in the bat with dark grey would make it a lot better. But let's face it, even with this piece count the overall design of both vehicles could be a lot better.

Anyway I think that the collector's value of this set will definetly increase when it'll be discontinued and I guess it's a good investment if someone wants to buy and keep it in sealed box for a few years

Edited January 12, 2013 by KZB

[thefyfe]

Built this set lat night while watching tdkr and I love it!easily my 2nd favourite batman set to date (first being arkham) the tumbler is great - pictures don't do it justice (yes is a shame it doesn't have 2 back wheels doubled up but the flick fires are meant to simulate the canons that rise from the chassis in the film!) if you leave off the top sticker this is a great representation of he vehicle I think!and for the price is a bargain! The bane minifig is obviously the icing on the cake!so sweet!

Edited January 13, 2013 by thefyfe

[BrickG]

The Bat and Tumbler, a bit too small.

The Bat has... blue for absolutely no reason besides "We're Lego!"...

The Tumbler, I'd like a black version.

I really love the minifigures. The build is bleh. The cost should have been maybe $30-35 instead (I'd be fine with $40 if it was good).

[Hulk_Smash]

Good review, I got this today and I really like it, the Tumbler is actually bigger then I expected, whilst the Bat was smaller then I expected. I also threw the stickers for the Tumbler away as I thought they looked stupid. Also Is the code for the game only in America?)

Edited February 1, 2013 by Hulk_Smash

[brodey1]

I'm still debating this one. The figures are awesome, but the models not so much.

[Final Exit]

This set is such a missed opportunity, they couldn't have done any worse if they had tried.

Looked at it today and just couldn't bring myself to buy it.

why LEGO, why?

[Esurient]

The box designs really draws people attention to it, especially when you have seen the movie. It reminds you of all the action you have seen in the movie and you couldn't help but to buy it for yourself.

[TheBatstan]

hey guys if you want to see a BLACK version of this tumbler see this

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79157

[Aanchir]

I just popped in to read this review and saw about the same criticisms I expected to. But I ought to point out that you didn't really name any of the possible reasons for the changes to the model; you basically treated them as unexplainable and moved on. So I thought I might chime in.

"For kids" definitely isn't a good enough explanation on its own, but there are a couple things that are related to the fact that it's "for kids" as well as "for store shelves". One of these is the issue of sturdiness. As sturdy and tanklike as both vehicles look in the films, a lot of the most accurate MOCs I've seen of them use building techniques that might be somewhat fragile compared to this final product. And naturally this is important for kids. They aren't going to be putting the Tumbler up on a shelf for display; they'll be rambunctiously ramming it into things and rolling it down stairs, and it should be built for that. The choice to place the back wheels further apart, and thus prevent any double-wheels as would have been accurate, may easily have been to make the model as a whole sturdier.

Another issue comes down to branding. Certainly, the Tumbler and Bat are very distinctive models, but part of the reason for the Batman insignia to be on the Bat or for Bane's mask pattern to appear on the Tumbler is to ensure kids understand that this is a Batman product, whether they've seen the movies or not. what defines a bat-vehicle to kids is usually the bat motifs, not just being a jet-black crime-fighting machine. Likewise, kids might expect something tying Bane's Tumbler to Bane. And regardless of any specific demands from kids, something that would be important from a licensing perspective as well as a design perspective is that the models be distinctive. A jet-black vehicle with an odd shape isn't going to stick in kids' heads quite as much as one with clear and visible iconography on it. Likewise, a tan tank with no detail whatsoever wouldn't be too memorable to kids. It's the reason LEGO sets have printed and stickered details in the first place, and the reason that this set has blue and orange accents.

But, one might say, the Tumbler already had detail! It had desert camouflage patterns all across it! That may be true, but it has to be pointed out that this cuts dangerously close to TLG's anti-military policy which prohibits weapons, vehicles, and paraphernalia similar to those being used in modern-day military conflicts. And even if TLG was basing their work off the fictional Tumbler, it might have created controversy to put out a product which to people unfamiliar with the source material looked an awful lot like a tank or military armored vehicle. Just look at the controversy over Jabba's Palace to see what a big fuss can be made over even a slight resemblance. And controversy of that sort might make a parent second-guess a purchase. Bane's new ride doesn't resemble any real-world military vehicles even superficially-- and as such, doesn't really face a lot of media scrutiny.

Finally, I ought to point out that what makes sense or comes naturally to kids is often more important than accuracy, whether a set is based on a work of fiction or real life. Take, for instance, LEGO fire engines, which are invariably red. Never mind that some fire engines in real life are white or even safety green-- red is fixed in many kids' minds as the color of fire engines and fire stations, and some will go so far as to turn away toys that don't match that perception. Likewise, it's easy to see why some decisions might have been made in this design. The windscreen is centered and see-through because kids might not have accepted a vehicle they didn't think Bane could see through the front of. Most Tumbler MOCs aim for a more accurate portrayal of the windscreen, but kids might not care about this as much as the toy making sense as they understand it.

So yeah; I admit this set could be more accurate, but in toy design, accuracy is just one of several important considerations, and often not the most important of them. I definitely appreciate the decision to render these vehicles in LEGO to begin with, even if it meant corners had to be cut and sacrifices had to be made. And I think considering all the changes that WERE made, the designers did admirably in creating something that still evoked the source material, unlike some TDKR tie-in toys I've seen that don't have the faintest resemblance to anything in the movie itself (walking past a shelf of such products in a Best Buy recently made me shake my head in disbelief).

[PhillipJFry]

I just popped in to read this review and saw about the same criticisms I expected to. But I ought to point out that you didn't really name any of the possible reasons for the changes to the model; you basically treated them as unexplainable and moved on. So I thought I might chime in.

"For kids" definitely isn't a good enough explanation on its own, but there are a couple things that are related to the fact that it's "for kids" as well as "for store shelves". One of these is the issue of sturdiness. As sturdy and tanklike as both vehicles look in the films, a lot of the most accurate MOCs I've seen of them use building techniques that might be somewhat fragile compared to this final product. And naturally this is important for kids. They aren't going to be putting the Tumbler up on a shelf for display; they'll be rambunctiously ramming it into things and rolling it down stairs, and it should be built for that. The choice to place the back wheels further apart, and thus prevent any double-wheels as would have been accurate, may easily have been to make the model as a whole sturdier.

Another issue comes down to branding. Certainly, the Tumbler and Bat are very distinctive models, but part of the reason for the Batman insignia to be on the Bat or for Bane's mask pattern to appear on the Tumbler is to ensure kids understand that this is a Batman product, whether they've seen the movies or not. what defines a bat-vehicle to kids is usually the bat motifs, not just being a jet-black crime-fighting machine. Likewise, kids might expect something tying Bane's Tumbler to Bane. And regardless of any specific demands from kids, something that would be important from a licensing perspective as well as a design perspective is that the models be distinctive. A jet-black vehicle with an odd shape isn't going to stick in kids' heads quite as much as one with clear and visible iconography on it. Likewise, a tan tank with no detail whatsoever wouldn't be too memorable to kids. It's the reason LEGO sets have printed and stickered details in the first place, and the reason that this set has blue and orange accents.

But, one might say, the Tumbler already had detail! It had desert camouflage patterns all across it! That may be true, but it has to be pointed out that this cuts dangerously close to TLG's anti-military policy which prohibits weapons, vehicles, and paraphernalia similar to those being used in modern-day military conflicts. And even if TLG was basing their work off the fictional Tumbler, it might have created controversy to put out a product which to people unfamiliar with the source material looked an awful lot like a tank or military armored vehicle. Just look at the controversy over Jabba's Palace to see what a big fuss can be made over even a slight resemblance. And controversy of that sort might make a parent second-guess a purchase. Bane's new ride doesn't resemble any real-world military vehicles even superficially-- and as such, doesn't really face a lot of media scrutiny.

Finally, I ought to point out that what makes sense or comes naturally to kids is often more important than accuracy, whether a set is based on a work of fiction or real life. Take, for instance, LEGO fire engines, which are invariably red. Never mind that some fire engines in real life are white or even safety green-- red is fixed in many kids' minds as the color of fire engines and fire stations, and some will go so far as to turn away toys that don't match that perception. Likewise, it's easy to see why some decisions might have been made in this design. The windscreen is centered and see-through because kids might not have accepted a vehicle they didn't think Bane could see through the front of. Most Tumbler MOCs aim for a more accurate portrayal of the windscreen, but kids might not care about this as much as the toy making sense as they understand it.

So yeah; I admit this set could be more accurate, but in toy design, accuracy is just one of several important considerations, and often not the most important of them. I definitely appreciate the decision to render these vehicles in LEGO to begin with, even if it meant corners had to be cut and sacrifices had to be made. And I think considering all the changes that WERE made, the designers did admirably in creating something that still evoked the source material, unlike some TDKR tie-in toys I've seen that don't have the faintest resemblance to anything in the movie itself (walking past a shelf of such products in a Best Buy recently made me shake my head in disbelief).

I just finished writing up something incredibly long and boring, but upon reflection I thought it best to merely condense what I had into one sentiment: When I was a kid, around the age that this set was intended for (11-12, lets say), I loved Star Wars, as many of my friends did. I also loved Lego. Literally all year, I scraped together every cent I had, jumping at any minor paying work opportunities my parents offered. I mowed lawns around my neighborhood during the summer, and shoveled driveways during the winter. I saved the majority of this money, but whatever I had left for my own random spending, I carefully saved for Lego sets. Nearly all of the Star Wars sets I bought as a kid weren't perfect, but had an incredible attention to detail and accuracy. If twelve year old me had purchased this Batman set, I would have been crushed. Kids aren't stupid, and not all of them are only looking for Lego sets to build into toys. TLG knows this, as they know that a large chunk of their customers are adults. As a result, most of their designs reflect this. The set I reviewed here does not, in any way. The only situation in which these type of designs, particularly with the horrible branding, make sense is if TLG was marketing a Dark Knight Rises set to 4-6 year olds, which based on the subject matter and even the age bracket on the box, they most certainly were not.

In regards to your closing comment, I think that it's a bit sad to think the best thing we can say about this set is that at least it's a little bit better than some of the other Dark Knight themed toys.

[GregoryBrick]

Nearly all of the Star Wars sets I bought as a kid weren't perfect, but had an incredible attention to detail and accuracy. If twelve year old me had purchased this Batman set, I would have been crushed. Kids aren't stupid, and not all of them are only looking for Lego sets to build into toys. TLG knows this, as they know that a large chunk of their customers are adults. As a result, most of their designs reflect this. The set I reviewed here does not, in any way.

Thanks very much for the review, it gives me a good idea of what this set is like.

I think you are overstating how representative your current and 12-year-old LEGO preferences are. LEGO designed their Star Wars sets for a specific age range, and it worked, as shown by how important they were to you at 11-12. If you still think highly of those sets, that is great, but it is not LEGO's priority. It might also mean you have the same preferences now that you did when you were 12 (which is fine) or you had an AFOL's preferences at that age (in which case you are not representative).

I do not find nearly all Star Wars sets to have an incredible attention to detail and accuracy, nor do I find this set do have poor attention to detail and accuracy. I knew what the vehicles were from the moment I saw them; I have seen the DKR films; and yet I didn't pay any attention to the presence of two wheels vs. four on the Tumbler's rear axle in this set or in the films. I think we simply disagree on this then.

I find the criticism of 'most MOCs I have seen did a better job than this' peculiar. MOCs, particularly the ones which appeal to Eurobricks members, operate under much different constraints and obligations than LEGO designers do, as already discussed - LEGO designers have to make a model which holds together under play conditions, they have to have an economy of parts and they have a price to meet, and they have to make a model which appeals in ways other than just accuracy. As it stands, I do not find the linked MOCs particularly compelling anyway.

Basically what Aanchir said. Also, I agree with his point about how this set is more faithful to the film than many other TDKR toys, which he did not present as 'the best thing that can be said about this set'.

Thanks again for your review and commentary and the opportunity to discuss the set.

[frumpy]

I've just made the set and curious if others got white and black stickers for the road block pieces (rather than the yellow and black shown on the box).

[Brickus]

I too also have the black and white stickers on the yellow tile, it looks really odd now.

[eldiano]

Oh ok glad I wasn't the only ones with white stickers!!! What are the things in the back of the bat for? The grey things that swivel up and down that resemble an engine? I just raised them up to give it the back of the bat look, I hate the multicolors thrown in The Bat, and I hate how small the camo tumbler is. Other than that it's allright, not really to big on the minifigures but just the vehicle themselves though.