Eurobricks Mafia Day One: Let the metagaming begin!

[TrumpetKing]

I personally think that the idea of a vig killing Redblade is more likely. The scum killer isn't going to want to kill anybody at the beginning, due to the fact that there is a huge risk that they could be killing their own. In fact, it is such a risk that I would think that there will most likely be only two kills per night until the scum can unite, unless the scum just decides to take a chance.

[Hinckley]

So you seem to be confused as to why Redblade would have been a Vig target, and then go on to explain why he would have made a great vig target, but that you doubt it due to the MO? The MO's morality rarely has anything to do with the perpetrator as far as I'm concerned, except that it's usually consistent. I seem to recall a certain vig from one of your games who made really sadistic death traps for his targets.

Where did you leave your brain? I said he'd make a shitty Scum target and a good vig target. Learn to read if you're going to accuse someone of contradicting themselves. And an MO can't be "to kill everybody" because MO means the method of which a killer uses to murder its victims. Duh. I mean, come on.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I don't think we should be afraid of the mayor being killed (We'd just elect another). Conversion, yes. But as long as the mayor says enough to be scrutinized, we should be able to tell if they've been converted. That's just one reason I prefer myself. I'll certainly be able to tell if I've been converted.

If I'm elected and die tomorrow, that's just the way it goes. I'm willing to play this out. We won't get anywhere if we're too afraid to do anything.

[Hinckley]

I personally think that the idea of a vig killing Redblade is more likely. The scum killer isn't going to want to kill anybody at the beginning, due to the fact that there is a huge risk that they could be killing their own. In fact, it is such a risk that I would think that there will most likely be only two kills per night until the scum can unite, unless the scum just decides to take a chance.

But a serial killer would probably think he was un-protected and un-watched.

[TrumpetKing]

Where did you leave your brain? I said he'd make a shitty Scum target and a good vig target. Learn to read if you're going to accuse someone of contradicting themselves. And an MO can't be "to kill everybody" because MO means the method of which a killer uses to murder its victims. Duh. I mean, come on.

Actually, I read your statement ,and it did seem a little contradictory at first glance. Call me stupid, but it did take me a while to understand. But I feel as if you got a bit defensive there, it sounded kind of aggressive. Did you miss a nap?

[Tamamono]

*Yawn*

Alright, after a good nap, I'm ready to begin hunting scum.

Now, as for the night's kills, I assume that the Death-With-A-Chainsaw is the scum killer - we were all whacked in the head by skellies in caps earlier - why would that be the serial killer? As for Redblade being the target, it's not uncommon for the scum to go for someone who's unlikely to be protected, although there are definitely experienced players who attract less attention than Hinck/Shadows/Draggy who would make great kills. It's possible that he had a PR that he spilled to a scummo, but it's unlikely. Talking to anyone on Night Zero is a risky idea with greater consequences than rewards. Hmm...

As for the chandelier, I honestly think that's the SK (god always talks about "only adding an independent SK", so it's safe to assume that there's one here). Cecilie's actually a risky target for a SK. She's more likely to be protected than people like me, etc., and the SK usually just has to kill indiscriminately until he wins. Maybe he can joint with the scum and he was killing his townread...?

Also, if there's a vig, there's a high chance that he/she hasn't killed yet - and with good reason.

~~~~~~

Okay, now that the obligatory speculation is over with, let's get on to the meat of the day.

I saweded this by the poop monster last night but I felleded asleep before I could show my mommy.

As annoying as this is, it's likely the product of a gimmick action, fyi. Remember something similar to that game we played last year... Dr. Budweiser's Madhouse? Something like that.

Well, the scum are split into two teams and don't know each other. One team of killers (plural!!!) and one team of recruiters. The killing team might have held off because they don't want to kill one of their own; and they also may have more than one kill.

I hate to blatantly metagame (wait, isn't that what I've been doing all post...? ), but that would be unfair. I think what he meant was that there's a team that kills and a team that recruits. So if, for example, the killer dies, his teammate will take his position.

~~~~~~

Now, when it comes to all this mayor business, I have to ask: why are you fools voting for Flare? :hmph: Hinck, your "logic" that he's unlikely to be killed is nullified by Redblade's death. Plus, are the scum unlikely to kill a town PR just because he isn't a major player in these games? :hpmh: No. If a townie gets elected mayor, there's a high chance that he'll be killed/converted (Remember how the Patient Representitive almost got converted on night 1 of Professor Beetlebop's Hospital? The only thing that saved him was his miller role.). That having been said, I highly urge the Alarmist (prevents one townie from being converted a night), if we have one, to be on the mayor tonight. A doctor might have a better target, but we want to keep the tie-breaker town.

Honestly, our best weapon here is the WIFOM of the scum team being separated (the killers won't know whether or not to kill the mayor, and vice versa).

In any case,

*speech*

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

I see Cornelius as the optimal mayor candidate at this point. Having the nerve to put himself up for election is a towntell (although it could be leaning null due to his experience), and frankly, I want someone at the front that I can read (I can't read Flare) and I trust Cornelius to hammer correctly if necessary.

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

I think def implied that not all townies are convertible, which would also fit with the two scum sides having no way to confirm each other.

I don't seem to remember him saying that...

[MagPiesRUs]

def said that someone is off the table for the night which, to me, means a Townie won the puzzle, since he said the Townie would be immune to Night Actions while Scum would have a strongarm kill.

Actually, there's nothing that implies that a townie won the puzzle. Def said that the first person to get the puzzle would be given absolute immunity from actions in night one. Which means that anyone with an action (scum or no) would get a strongarm too. He was just saying that scum would probably get the best use out of it. So *ping*, yourself.

I also find it hard to believe that Piratedave would reveal all that information about the puzzle without even trying to google and solve it himself first. My gut is telling me he posted his information after his scum team had already got the puzzle correct.

[Zepher]

I think the vote for mayor is more a mechanic to get us to start talking. The event of a tie vote is, quite frankly, a little unlikely. So I'm not too worried about who we elect to mayor us all. I just want to be their friend!

I think that perhaps, if we do have a vig, they might have CHOSEN to not strike last night, because they knew so little. Vigs are, in past experience, a little more conservative than scum/pyscho killers. Of course, that's only if we have a vig. Again, in this situation, the scum's killer is sort of similar to a vig in the sense that they have only half of their team confirmed for them.

It is also likely that there was at least a conversion attempt last night- and it very possibly could have gone through. I bring this up only because we are trying to estimate the number of scum- even if there were 5 or 6 to begin with, there could be 6 or 7 now. I think that there are quite few recruitable people. The way def described it sounded like there were a fair number who could be recruited, but as they got picked off/recruited, that's when it would be harder to find people to recruit.

So, those are my thoughts on the discussion so far. Grrrrrrr. Anyone want to go play a game of hop scotch or something? I just want us to all get along.

[DarthPotato]

You know, I think I'll just vote for Cornelius now for the reasons I said before. Like he said, we can just elect another mayor. Yeah, we may elect a scum mayor, but if that mayor doesn't die we'll at least have some info on that and the possibility of them being scum.

Mayor: CorneliusMurdock

[Tamamono]

And why is everyone calling what appears to be a SK kill a Psycho Killer kill? Unless I've been very mistaken the last couple of years, third party killers are called Serial Killers, not Psycho Killers. Did the SK slip and out his role's name?

[Hinckley]

Do we need to elect a mayor to decide a tie in the vote for mayor??

Read the rules!!!

[Tamamono]

Wait, nevermind, def told us all. That's what I get for reading fast as I'm walking out the door.

[TrumpetKing]

I think that perhaps, if we do have a vig, they might have CHOSEN to not strike last night, because they knew so little. Vigs are, in past experience, a little more conservative than scum/pyscho killers. Of course, that's only if we have a vig. Again, in this situation, the scum's killer is sort of similar to a vig in the sense that they have only half of their team confirmed for them.

Doesn't the vig get none of their team confirmed, though?

So, those are my thoughts on the discussion so far. Grrrrrrr. Anyone want to go play a game of hop scotch or something? I just want us to all get along.

How about Twister?

[Hinckley]

Hell's teeth there's a lot to get through.

Firstly, obviously, it sucks to be starting day one down two townies already. When I read the opening post, my initial thoughts were that it seemed to me most likely that the scum would have killed Captain Redblade, to avoid killing a strong player that might be on their (other) team, and that Cecilie was killed by the serial killer. We know there's a serial killer, so we don't have to speculate about the possibility of a third party. I'm willing to believe that we don't have a vigilante in this situation, as they often (but not always) do more harm than good for us, and we have enough to be going up against with recruiting and scum kills and psycho kills. I can imagine the scum not wanting to take out a valuable player on night zero, where they have nothing to base their opinion on as to whether that person may be on their team or not, and if they were going to take out a valuable player, then they do have a few to choose from, possibly even stronger players than Cecilie (with no offense to Cecilie intended). I also imagine that, with this in mind, it's possible they might switch up their strategy as they'll have a better idea of who's town or not after today. Having said that, it's possible the scum killers might kill the same target the scum recruiters are trying to recruit, for exactly the same reasons. These are all thoughts based on what I've seen so far, and just because I think these thoughts, that doesn't make them true. Similarly, just because people argue vehemently otherwise, that doesn't make them right, either.

See, DarkDragon? This is what discussion is. Not just dumping a bunch of questions and running.

When def mentioned the teams of killers and recruiters, I believe he was just referring to the teams,

so (and I really hope this is true) presumably the team that kills (called killers) only kills once per night, and the team that recruits (called recruiters) recruits once per night. There was mention somewhere from def about them having better or enhanced recruiting ability, but we also know the scum teams are unlikely to have investigative roles as they aren't able to confirm themselves to one another (I'm sure he said that somewhere). I doubt the other members of the killing and recruiting teams are just sitting at home twiddling their thumbs, so they probably have other night actions to aid them on their evil endeavours, but at least we know they can't just go and investigate each other and convert each other/ not kill each other. As to numbers, I guesstimate 6 +/- 1 scum total, divided (obviously) into two teams, for what it's worth.

This is also how I imagined it would be set up.

Could somebody please give Hinckley a hug? He's gone all argumentative and seems unwilling to listen to other people's points of view, despite wanting discussion. I agree with DarkDragon that we're not going to know who did what last night until we have a pattern to look at, and that will take time. We can speculate, yes, but that's all it is, speculation. Anyone too set in their ways looks like they know more than they're letting on.

Thanks! A hug would certainly help. Yes, I've been very argumentative. I had a case of the Scumbas. Maybe I've shaken it off. Who knows? But, just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing with DarkDragon because she hadn't said anything specific to agree or disagree with. I was just pointing out that the way she brought it all up was suspicious. Yes, of course, we can't be sure until we see a pattern. However, her behavior was odd. I feel I thoroughly demonstrated that. "Let's not discuss who killed who but let's find out who the psycho killer is and try to get the Scum to help us." Still seems weird to me, if I'm argumentative or not. Plus, when asked for more conversation from her she then started speculating which team killed who, which is what she was originally against and then concluded with the theory about the serial killer being converted into our vig. All in all the way she behaved seemed very Scummy to me at the time.

Now, you've said anyone too set in their ways knows more than they're letting on. So, who are you referring to with that? Who seems to set in their ways to you?

[Adam]

Well, damn, this is what you get for hibernating.

While I try to wrap my head around three pages of dickishness and acronyms, I'll put out there that it seems like it's in the scum's best interest to vote a Townie (or at least, a suspected Townie) as the Mayor and then recruit them that night. If I were a scum, I wouldn't vote for myself because that would bring me under the spotlight. Then again, this is the first time I've heard of the concept of a Mayor in these games (and the first time I've encountered one with two scum teams). Voting for a random, previously inactive player like Flare is suspicious to me because it's the exact kind of tactic I expect a scum team would take when it comes to the Mayor.

As for the debate between who killed Cecille and Capt. Redblade, chainsaws and skull masks do seem psycho to me, but in a game as unusual as this, I don't think def feels the need to keep weapons and figures consistent with their respective teams. Tamamono makes a good point that a serial killer should in theory avoid targeting well-known players.

A lot of people seem to be saying that the scum would be "stupid" to kill on the first night. In reality, they are in the same situation as the vigilante (should he or she exist), and killing on the first night is merely a risk.

Listening to def I couldn't quite tell, do the killers know who the other killers are? If so, couldn't a recruited killer identify all the other killers to the recruiting team?

Is it entirely in the Town's best interests to vote a mayor? It seems like it would be really easy for the scum to convert him or her and get an easy tiebreaker.

[Hinckley]

Voting for a random, previously inactive player like Flare is suspicious to me because it's the exact kind of tactic I expect a scum team would take when it comes to the Mayor.

Why would the Scum want an inactive and relatively inexperienced player on their team?

As for the debate between who killed Cecille and Capt. Redblade, chainsaws and skull masks do seem psycho to me, but in a game as unusual as this, I don't think def feels the need to keep weapons and figures consistent with their respective teams. Tamamono makes a good point that a serial killer should in theory avoid targeting well-known players.

Come to think of it, the Scum may have killed Cecilie and been confident she wasn't Scum if they remember her only time as Scum: Steampunk Mafia. She had a number of Scum-tells. Perhaps the people who played Scum with her, Rick, CorneliusMurdock and Pandora, were in the best position to identify her as a safe Townie to kill.

A lot of people seem to be saying that the scum would be "stupid" to kill on the first night. In reality, they are in the same situation as the vigilante (should he or she exist), and killing on the first night is merely a risk.

Who said that? Where? I can't imagine the Scum ever choosing not to kill. They need to move forward. Killing a fellow Scum could even confuse us as to who the killers are actually working for. So, there's not much risk and not killing sets them back a day in meeting their win condition.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Why would the Scum want an inactive and relatively inexperienced player on their team?

Because no one would notice it. You've admitted that you don't even know who Flare is. How would you know if his behavior changed?

[Hinckley]

Jesus Christ, I really am being kind of a dick.

Def said we'd have to change our game up. I'm trying the dick tactic. It feels...dickish.

[Scouty]

Read the rules!!!

It was an attempt at humor. I forgot we're not supposed to have humor here.

Now, do you need somebody to pull that cue stick out of your big behind or would you just like a hug, cause you seem pretty mad at everybody.

[Hinckley]

Because no one would notice it. You've admitted that you don't even know who Flare is. How would you know if his behavior changed?

But, are they more likely to try to recruit someone who can lie well and help them and has proved to play Scum well or are they just searching for the ones that actually can be converted. We don't know. I chose Flare because I didn't know him and I didn't want to have to guess and play the reverse psychology of the people I already know. How much power will the mayor actually have? Not much. He breaks ties. I can remember one tie in the history of Mafia: Bloodbrick II. If we're down to six players, I would be worried, but I really don't think the election of mayor now really matters that much. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I voted too hastily. Maybe I should have better reasons. My vote has been placed. I actually feel fine about it. I was thinking at the time, I'd be able to unvote if I wanted. I forgot the votes were locked in.

Why are you campaigning for it? More WIFOM...

It was an attempt at humor. I forgot we're not supposed to have humor here.

Now, do you need somebody to pull that cue stick out of your big behind or would you just like a hug, cause you seem pretty mad at everybody.

Pfft. Maybe you should put one in...

[TrumpetKing]

Oh, Lord, we will be in a lot of trouble if all we do is argue over whether Cornelius or Flare should be mayor. The role is about as useful as a 2 inch piece of string! Another thing we need to watch out for is lynching. I think it is far better and beneficial to try and find some scummy-poos rather than arguing over who the hell our mayor should be. It is a complete waste of time, IMO, to spend three pages arguing over who the mayor should be. Heck, why don't we don't we just lynch one nominee, then cross our fingers that the SK kills the other one?* The SK doesn't have to worry about affiliations, the SK only needs to worry about surviving, so they shouldn't have anything against the idea. And, the chances of lynching a scum on day one are at a very low number, however, it is a risky move, we could be down 4 townies. And, another flaw in my plan that I noticed is that there are people that others have already pointed out as scummy.

* In no way is TrumpetKing67 trying to start a vote ahead of time, or lead a lynch, but instead, TrumpetKing67 is just providing a more logical idea than arguing over a mayor. It is your choice to listen to this statement.

[Hinckley]

* In no way is TrumpetKing67 trying to start a vote ahead of time, or lead a lynch, but instead, TrumpetKing67 is just providing a more logical idea than arguing over a mayor. It is your choice to listen to this statement.

No, of course not. You're only suggesting that we lynch one nominee and ask the serial killer to take the other out. That's sounds reasonable.

[def]

Morning has opened, and the crowd is full of conversation. In the corner, Big Cam squirms and crosses his legs.

On the other end of the hall, in a feat of tremendous construction that was unfortunately not caught on film, the floor slides open, and a platform raises.

"Behold, I am he who is the Banana Sphinx! Lo, I have wandered long and far to gather the wisdom of this world. I have heeded your demand for entertainment, and so bring you... A GAME!"

He pauses and surveys the already haggard group.

"The first five people who say they want to play (in thread) will play. If less than five choose to play, than we will start in half an hour."

A crowd shuffles forward, curious, intrigued.

[CMP]

I want to play.

[TrumpetKing]

No, of course not. You're only suggesting that we lynch one nominee and ask the serial killer to take the other out. That's sounds reasonable.

Really? Or are you being a dickish sarcastic person?