Eurobricks Mafia Day Two: Moonlight Medicine

[Big Cam]

Why would we

have a psychiatrist and a seer?

We probably don't. You're the only one ranting and raving about the psychiatrist. No where in her post does she say, Oh ya, I'm the psychiatrist. it was just a wild theory.

Well, a psycho I think would have a counterpart to stop him, a therapist who needs to find and cure him so that he can then be part of the town. Additionally, maybe, this is just a wild megablocks guess so don't put too much stock in it, maybe the psycho is our vigilante but not until he is cured. Why wait until day 6 for all the crazy theories when we can start now?

So, you do make some good points there about the pics and how can we figure things out. I'll take a stab at it and say I think Cecilie was killed by the psycho. I think the psycho is someone who knows how smart she is and has played closely with her. Scum night one kills are usually metagamed for another reason or not metagamed at all, depending on who the team is, which makes me think the killing scum team is low on "veterans", to put it bluntly.

Hinckley, why are you putting so much faith in her guess?

We cannot,

have a vig, A Scum and a psycho killer...

at least not one

Who could become our vig killer.

Maybe it was the horses, either way this proves there are day kills, so Scouty's reasoning is making more and more sense, while your theory is,....... well never really did make sense.

Think about it,

if we believe DarkDragon,

Which for the most part only you do.

You mean if we believe you and even you claim to have figured it out, unless I've missed somewhere that you've said she directly claimed it. I don't think I missed that, did I? I know she didn't claim it to me. Anyone else she was talking to able to confirm that she claimed it?

Bingo, my thoughts exactly.

Well with Scouty and Hinckley being the two main targets (for good reasons), I think I have to go with the vote for the person who's story doesn't add up. Speculation isn't fact.

Vote: Hinckley

Also guess who got strep throat in real life

[Pandora]

So reading through, I'm inclined to believe Scouty. I'm surprised he didn't seek to clarify his role better, but questioning about the role he has presented does stand up. Scouty isn't the kind of person to just go off and act independently of any team he's on, so I believe if he were to role claim then he'd have all the details worked out beforehand. I can also believe that he didn't spot Cecilie's death as being a day kill because most of us seemed to miss it too. The presence of a day killer has been cleared up beyond doubt with the most gruesome of timing, and I'm more inclined to think that that kill is the psycho killer, and I can thus appreciate there may be a specific protector for it.

Hinck, I think you are (literally and metaphorically) making a song and dance about nothing. You told me about Scouty's PMs and the first thing I said to you (after saying they sounded weird - a reference to all that haste and hush stuff) was that it sounded like he was trying to contact scum, but that he could well be town playing a gambit. You brought this to me, presumably for discussion, but didn't discuss it after that, but just outed someone who had a good chance of having a useful role in the day thread. Very careless. Add to that you telling me you had apparently wrongly sent some information to another player by PM, because the two PMs had the same title. Again careless, and you led me to believe that you instigated the PM chain to which you added this information erroneously, and I find it hard to believe you'd start another PM chain with someone with the exact same title as your role PM.

The fact that people are making reasonable responses to Scouty's defense of his accusations seems to be making you more and more het-up. I can see that this roleplay crap is frustrating, but you have other means of communicating at your disposal. I suggest you use them and clarify a few things.

For now I vote: Hinckley.

[Scouty]

That's what's getting me here. I still think his approach was a pointless risk, but frankly, if he was scum, I would expect a roleclaim better than this, unless he was just clumsy in thinking one up.

I was going to vote a while ago, now I'm rethinking. It's all somewhat believable now with that day kill, but...

Like shadows said, Cecilia's kill happened in the opening of Day 1. I overlooked it as a night kill, since I was looking for a kill like Danny's. so I was looking in the wrong places before, well except now with Danny's death.

[TrumpetKing]

I'm beginning to think that this lynch might end up being last minute.

Personally, I see Scouty's claim to be weird, but after some explanations, I do think that it makes some sense to me. We have had a stronger lead towards Hinckley, even yesterday we did, and I have a stronger feeling towards Hinckley being scum over Scouty.

Vote: Hinckley

[def]

We lost a few hours today due to updates. I would rather just end the day on schedule, but if there are complaints, please PM me. If more than a few want to make up the lost hours, this day can run late.

Vote Tally:

Hinckley 6 (Zepher, Tammo, Shadows, Big Cam, Pandora, TrumpetKing)

Scouty 1 (Hinckley)

In the case that I miss a vote, don't sweat it, it'll count as long we clearly know who it is (ie. Vote: douchenozzle will not count as a vote for anyone however douchy they may be). I count them when I wake up and before I go to bed, and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed at that time. Give a reminder, and I'll count it right

[Hinckley]

*sadly waltzes with doll, earlier before the French revolution*

I see a horse trampled Danny,

I will not yet unvote Scouty

Too many questions still remain

I still find weird his role claim

Now some of you want me to die

Sadly, some I thought were on my side

I'm not going to sit and cry

Whay would you like me to clarify?

*waltzes, waltzes, waltzes*

*more waltzing*

Hold on, I just thought of something

this watcher could clear Scouty

Not that I think he should talk to me,

but maybe someone else he is trusting

If Scouty did target Shadows

then, clearly, Scouty did not kill Danny

Is anybody accusing him of killing Danny?

No, but it's a possibility.

He claims to be the Seer

DarkDragon seemed to be afraid

A convenient claim for the killer is

that he is searching for self his.

Maybe he has nothing to do with it

Maybe the theories just don't fit,

Or maybe he made a hasty claim

that was verified coincidentally by a day maim

Shadows suggests I wield an axe

Scouty suggests I did the horse attacks

And Scouty claims to have targeted Shadows

Can you see why I'm suspicious of those?

*waltzes, waltzes, waltzes*

[Piratedave84]

A day kill .... how interesting!!!

Scouty's claim now would make sense and based on this; I will

vote: Hinckley

What puzzles me with the day kill is that it seems to be "ordered" at night; as someone pointed out, the caption clearly said that someone put the seeds in last night. This is a situation I personally never encountered. Furthermore it appears the kill happens at random time during the day; maybe the killer gets to choose the timeframe for the kill to happen.

Why would Dany have been targeted? I don't see that he had developped animosity towards a particular person or vice-versa. Does anyone have any clue as to why he may have been targeted?

[Nightshroud99]

This new day kill is very surprising, I wasn't completely sold on it's idea but now that I've seen it I am also more inclined to believe Scoutys' tale.

Hinckley, I am happy to vote for you again. Two dead townies and your brazen way of handling Scouty has diminished any trust I held onto after Day 1.

So...

Vote: Hinckley

[JimBee]

Alright, it seems that I have no choice. I still have some doubts about Hinck's scumminess, but really, Scouty's story does add up while Hinck's does not. And it seems like Hinck is grasping at straws here. He keeps changing the reasons why Scouty might be scum. :/ And now that we've seen the decreased possibility in that, I'm willing to place my vote.

Vote: Hinckley

[Pandora]

Alright, it seems that I have no choice.

You always have a choice, don't you?

[JimBee]

You always have a choice, don't you?

Yes, if you mean literally. I meant that despite my doubts about Hinck's scumminess, the best and only sensible option would be to vote for him since I think Scouty is telling the truth.

And I don't think we can choose to not vote without penalty.

[Alopex]

Sorry I'm a bit late! Wow, lots to read.

Reading everything, and seeing the day kill, Scouty's story seems to make more sense.

Loved ya' rhymes Hinck, but I'll feel better with one less scum around.

Vote: Hinckley

[Pandora]

I didn't do anything to Shadows. I protected him. More or less. I'm a weak doctor. My role is titled the Seer. I can see anyone who is going to die in the day and prevent their death. The description goes on to say that it's a night action that will be effective the next day. This has gotten me to think that there's a day killer, though there hasn't been evidence of one so far...it's a bit confusing. I targeted you night zero, because, well, you know, the usual, but I was blocked.

Scouty, this part of the role is still troubling me. What exactly is it that you can see? Do you get notified of potential deaths?

You can beat around the bush all you want. I messed up by approaching you, I should have watched you again tonight, but I'll chalk it up to an inexperienced mistake. So now I'm left with a choice, either I tell the thread what I do know along with what I think I know. This will likely get me killed, I presume by you and your scum team.

Rick has already mentioned this - but the rules stated that players couldn't target the same player two nights running, so this is an odd statement. But it does however indicate that the 'watcher' claims they were themselves targeting Scouty night one.

I have not contacted anyone else besides you. Should I contact Shadows.? Can he tell me more?

I can hold my tongue for a while. I'd be fine not speaking up, if we can work together.

I have the watcher role which is pretty easy to tell. Given what we know about the watcher your right that I town.

You know my predicament. It's early.in day one so unless there is a big vote against me for some reason, I'll hang tight. I may be town but I'm willing to listen to any options that lead with a win for me.

Given what who knows about the watcher role?

You said not exactly when I asked if you we're the watcher tracker. Is there something more to it?

Which, btw, just to let you know, I targeted Hinck yesterday, or rather night zero, but I was blocked. I tried again, but like I said, can't target the same guy in consecutive nights.

Interesting to see that I was not only blocked yesterday, but then watched by you. I'm so flattered of attracting such attention!

Out of interest, why tell someone who you targeted on night zero? There was no apparent need to.

Nah, I was trying to cover my butt a little. I may have played a bunch of games but they are always so spread out I consider myself a rookie. You called my bluff without even knowing it, so I figured whatever, you already know what I can do. It's just a regular watcher role, I choose who I watch each night.

That's ironic because I was going to target Hinck on day one but I chose Adam instead, going along with the no-name theme, I thought someone might try to recruit a lesser known player. I knew I should have stuck with the popular kids.

The block must of been random, I can't imagine anyone would know who to block. I chose you as a random pick, but random out of the popular kids.

I'm not convinced this 'watcher' understands the difference between a watcher and a tracker, given that he claimed he had been 'watching' Scouty, in which case he would have seen whomever targeted Scouty and not who Scouty targeted.

Out of everything I have actually heard today, the 'watcher' sounds like the most suspicious person to me, because they don't actually sound like a watcher at all. They sound like a tracker, which could very well be a scum role, and a lot of their posts to Scouty are merely agreeing with Scouty's assumptions. Claiming tracker-type results whilst claiming to actually be a watcher is... frankly scummy. I wouldn't trust whoever this is as far as I could kick them.

[JimBee]

Out of everything I have actually heard today, the 'watcher' sounds like the most suspicious person to me, because they don't actually sound like a watcher at all. They sound like a tracker, which could very well be a scum role, and a lot of their posts to Scouty are merely agreeing with Scouty's assumptions. Claiming tracker-type results whilst claiming to actually be a watcher is... frankly scummy. I wouldn't trust whoever this is as far as I could kick them.

I have thought about th as well, and I get the impression that they are confused rather than lying, because claiming to. Be watcher when they are obviously a tracker or something else is a blatant lie and not something I can see the scum doing. Although, of course, we cannot rule out anything. This watcher claims that they consider themself a noob, so maybe that is a ploy to cover up this "confusion" they have.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was flipping through the roles on mafiawiki some time ago, and I remember there brings variants of the watcher and tracker. There's the voyeur, which I think can see what action was performed on their target, but not who targeted them. Then there's the variant of the tracker whose name I don't recall that acts a bit like a rolecop, but it only works if their target peformed an action on the same night they targeted them. Obviously the watcher saw Scouty specifically, but maybe the confusion, if that's even what it is, draws from a role that combines several traits of these four roles.

The source of confusion could also be in the role name. Maybe def named them differently, so the "watcher" was not called "watcher" or "tracker", and this person thinks they are a watcher? In any case, this would be one of the only sources for confusion, otherwise, I agree with you, Pandora, that this watcher is worth scrutinizing.

[Adam]

The source of confusion could also be in the role name. Maybe def named them differently, so the "watcher" was not called "watcher" or "tracker", and this person thinks they are a watcher? In any case, this would be one of the only sources for confusion, otherwise, I agree with you, Pandora, that this watcher is worth scrutinizing.

The only person who has "confirmed" the existence of the watcher is Scouty, so if you trust his argument - which has suddenly become much more reliable following the death of Danny - then you have to accept that actual role names assigned by def might have little to no bearing on the role description. Scouty's role is called the "seer", which is apparently much different from the mafiawiki description, so it's highly possible that the "watcher" has a different action than the traditional watcher.

What I find most troublesome about this watcher is not his loose grasp on his role, but instead his willingness to betray the town. His constant hints to Scouty about wanting to turncoat to the scum side implies that he or she is in fact a townie (at the moment), but that he or she is incredibly unreliable. Those hints could also be interpreted as someone trying to connect with the other scum team: the watcher is literally asking to be converted, so maybe the watcher is in fact a scum role.

As for Scouty, I trust his claim. Some people (namely Hinckley) have been arguing that having a "seer" role would be unlikely or that his night action is strange, but this is a game where we have someone who curses people to poop and sing during the day. Making umbrella statements about what kinds of roles and actions are in the game is fruitless.

[badboytje88]

I have thought about th as well, and I get the impression that they are confused rather than lying, because claiming to. Be watcher when they are obviously a tracker or something else is a blatant lie and not something I can see the scum doing. Although, of course, we cannot rule out anything. This watcher claims that they consider themself a noob, so maybe that is a ploy to cover up this "confusion" they have.

On a slightly unrelated note, I was flipping through the roles on mafiawiki some time ago, and I remember there brings variants of the watcher and tracker. There's the voyeur, which I think can see what action was performed on their target, but not who targeted them. Then there's the variant of the tracker whose name I don't recall that acts a bit like a rolecop, but it only works if their target peformed an action on the same night they targeted them. Obviously the watcher saw Scouty specifically, but maybe the confusion, if that's even what it is, draws from a role that combines several traits of these four roles.

The source of confusion could also be in the role name. Maybe def named them differently, so the "watcher" was not called "watcher" or "tracker", and this person thinks they are a watcher? In any case, this would be one of the only sources for confusion, otherwise, I agree with you, Pandora, that this watcher is worth scrutinizing.

As far as I know there are 4 types of watchers:

• The Tracker learns who a player targeted, but not what action that player performed.
  
• The Follower learns what action a player performed, but not who that player targeted.
  
• The Watcher learns who targeted a player, but not what actions were performed on them.
  
• The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.
  

​I am still not sure if I should vote for Hinck. His entire behaviour this game strikes me as odd. Different from the way I know him. Plus he has stopped replying me in PM entirely.

Ok that was ducked up:

As far as I know there are 4 types of watchers:

• The Tracker learns who a player targeted, but not what action that player performed.
  
• The Follower learns what action a player performed, but not who that player targeted.
  
• The Watcher learns who targeted a player, but not what actions were performed on them.
  
• The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.
  

I am still not sure if I should vote for Hinck. His entire behaviour this game strikes me as odd. Different from the way I know him. Plus he has stopped replying me in PM entirely.

[Pandora]

The only person who has "confirmed" the existence of the watcher is Scouty, so if you trust his argument - which has suddenly become much more reliable following the death of Danny - then you have to accept that actual role names assigned by def might have little to no bearing on the role description. Scouty's role is called the "seer", which is apparently much different from the mafiawiki description, so it's highly possible that the "watcher" has a different action than the traditional watcher.

I understand what you're saying, but the actual name doesn't matter. He could be called the acrobatic fruitbat for all that matters. What matters is that he said "It's just a regular watcher role, I choose who I watch each night." and then reported tracking results.

I also agree that he sounds untrustworthy and like he wants to be converted.

Addendum: It's also worth noting that Hinck knows who this 'watcher' is, just as Scouty does too.

[Piratedave84]

The only person who has "confirmed" the existence of the watcher is Scouty, so if you trust his argument - which has suddenly become much more reliable following the death of Danny - then you have to accept that actual role names assigned by def might have little to no bearing on the role description. Scouty's role is called the "seer", which is apparently much different from the mafiawiki description, so it's highly possible that the "watcher" has a different action than the traditional watcher.

I think we may be used by Def to prove a point; his day one title seemed to encourage meta gaming which would not make any sense giving that from what I know Def is big proponent of not meta gaming and balance. It could VERY well be that he gave roles names that did not match the wiki definition to throw us of.

The whole setup here looks to me like it was created to teach a lesson; meta gaming is bad, stop it!!!

[Adam]

I understand what you're saying, but the actual name doesn't matter. He could be called the acrobatic fruitbat for all that matters. What matters is that he said "It's just a regular watcher role, I choose who I watch each night." and then reported tracking results.

I also agree that he sounds untrustworthy and like he wants to be converted.

Addendum: It's also worth noting that Hinck knows who this 'watcher' is, just as Scouty does too.

Good point; that does imply a discontinuity between his role and what he claims or believes his role to be. However, how does Hinckley know who the watcher is? Scouty replaced the watcher's name in his PMs to Hinckley.

[CMP]

Well, there we go, then....Vote: Hinckley. Scouty's story is starting to add up, and considering your behavior on Day One, I'm fairly comfortable with my vote.

[Pandora]

Scouty replaced the watcher's name in his PMs to Hinckley.

You're right, apologies. I just checked again and it was indeed Scouty who removed the "watcher's" name from the PMs. For some reason I thought Hinck did it when he quoted the whole conversation.

[Rick]

I can also believe that he didn't spot Cecilie's death as being a day kill because most of us seemed to miss it too. The presence of a day killer has been cleared up beyond doubt with the most gruesome of timing, and I'm more inclined to think that that kill is the psycho killer, and I can thus appreciate there may be a specific protector for it.

I assume we all saw that it happened during the day, but I too disregarded for that moment because it might simply have been a method to show the chandelier killer's night kill. If, however, your role description includes information on a day kill, I assume you interpreted it as such.

Scouty explicitly included the day killer aspect in his claim to Hinck. I assume the only people aware of the existence of a day killer are the day killer himself, the (day killer) protector, and maybe the psychiatrist (assuming they exist(ed) and the day killer is the psycho killer). If Scouty indeed targeted Shadows, it's likely we can clear him of being the day killer. So his claim is actually starting to add up.

The fact that people are making reasonable responses to Scouty's defense of his accusations seems to be making you more and more het-up. I can see that this roleplay crap is frustrating, but you have other means of communicating at your disposal. I suggest you use them and clarify a few things.

I got a "Don't you see it? I assume you're just holding back to appear scummy." PM too.

Hold on, I just thought of something

this watcher could clear Scouty

Not that I think he should talk to me,

but maybe someone else he is trusting

If Scouty did target Shadows

then, clearly, Scouty did not kill Danny

Is anybody accusing him of killing Danny?

No, but it's a possibility.

I thought you suggested Scouty was a recruiter? And wasn't the fact that Scouty mentioned the watcher caught him a reason for you to think he was scummy? You're not making an awful lot of sense anymore. Scouty's role claim is starting to make more and more sense though. And as I said earlier, contacting you like that would be a very bold move, too bold a move if you ask me, for a scum team to make, especially this early in the game.

I too am more inclined to believe Scouty at this point.

Vote: Hinckley

What puzzles me with the day kill is that it seems to be "ordered" at night; as someone pointed out, the caption clearly said that someone put the seeds in last night. This is a situation I personally never encountered. Furthermore it appears the kill happens at random time during the day; maybe the killer gets to choose the timeframe for the kill to happen.

I was a SK in Baritones 3 and poisoned people at night who dropped dead at noon the next day.

Scouty, this part of the role is still troubling me. What exactly is it that you can see? Do you get notified of potential deaths?

This was the thing I was hinting at earlier when I said his role may make sense. If he 'sees' who gets killed at night (perhaps if he picks the right target) and then can prevent their death, Cecilie dying immediately on the morning on day one doesn't make much sense, because if his role works like this, he needs time to decide on the faith of the one targeted by (presumably) the psycho killer. I was a resurrector in The Forest and had the second half of the 48 hour night to decide if I wanted the resurrect any of the dead I got to 'see'. But that seems unlikely in this case as we only have 24 hour nights. So, I too am still confused about the 'seeing' part of the role.

Out of everything I have actually heard today, the 'watcher' sounds like the most suspicious person to me, because they don't actually sound like a watcher at all. They sound like a tracker, which could very well be a scum role, and a lot of their posts to Scouty are merely agreeing with Scouty's assumptions. Claiming tracker-type results whilst claiming to actually be a watcher is... frankly scummy. I wouldn't trust whoever this is as far as I could kick them.

Some things the watcher said clearly don't make sense and Scouty himself also seems to doubt he is a watcher, which is why I asked him earlier to explain this statement:

Should we even be calling him a watcher anymore? How he's describing his actions isn't how a watcher would act...

What I find most troublesome about this watcher is not his loose grasp on his role, but instead his willingness to betray the town. His constant hints to Scouty about wanting to turncoat to the scum side implies that he or she is in fact a townie (at the moment), but that he or she is incredibly unreliable. Those hints could also be interpreted as someone trying to connect with the other scum team: the watcher is literally asking to be converted, so maybe the watcher is in fact a scum role.

I think you're suggesting he could be a tracker on the killers' team trying to connect with the recruiters. Reading back, he could have started the PM thinking he caught Scouty trying to convert Shadows.

[Scouty]

Scouty, this part of the role is still troubling me. What exactly is it that you can see? Do you get notified of potential deaths?

No, I am only throwing a blanket of protection into the darkness...it's going to be pretty difficult for me to protect the right person at the right time...I suppose that this is what makes it balanced. The difficulty in my being able to protect the right person and the possible psychiatrist/therapist, who I think if they found the psycho, would only make them sane and the psycho killer would no longer be psycho, nor a killer.

Rick has already mentioned this - but the rules stated that players couldn't target the same player two nights running, so this is an odd statement. But it does however indicate that the 'watcher' claims they were themselves targeting Scouty night one.

I'm not convinced this 'watcher' understands the difference between a watcher and a tracker, given that he claimed he had been 'watching' Scouty, in which case he would have seen whomever targeted Scouty and not who Scouty targeted.

Out of everything I have actually heard today, the 'watcher' sounds like the most suspicious person to me, because they don't actually sound like a watcher at all. They sound like a tracker, which could very well be a scum role, and a lot of their posts to Scouty are merely agreeing with Scouty's assumptions. Claiming tracker-type results whilst claiming to actually be a watcher is... frankly scummy. I wouldn't trust whoever this is as far as I could kick them.

Concerning the watcher, I've asked for clarity and he's declared it was his mistake saying he watched me. He, in truth, watched Shadows and saw me targeting him. How much I can trust this innocent mistake...I'm not sure...but it's possible. Trust him as I may do, though, he's one to...uhm...watch.

Out of interest, why tell someone who you targeted on night zero? There was no apparent need to.

I wanted to know more from him. To get something you have to give something. That was my reasoning then, at least

Given what who knows about the watcher role?

Probably a reference to him and myself, since I remarked earlier that watcher is a town role, typically.

[Adam]

I think you're suggesting he could be a tracker on the killers' team trying to connect with the recruiters. Reading back, he could have started the PM thinking he caught Scouty trying to convert Shadows.

Yep, that's what I was suggesting. While I'm here, I'll vote: Hinckley.

[Tamamono]

Well, alright then, it looks like Scouty's town after all. It's a shame that this had to come at the cost of poor Danny, though. Hopefully he was scum.

In any case, now that our main lynch target is looking more and more town by the minute, I'll Vote: Hinckley. I've made my stance on you very clear, and now that one of the last threads you were hanging from has been proven wrong, I think it's time you get lynched.

I'm confident in this vote.