LEGO's Jabba's Palace, Star Wars, and accusations of racism

[Mr Man]

http://www.dailymail...sed-mosque.html

Daily Mail.

That's the answer.

Stupid.

[paul_delahaye]

My personal favourite of the readers comments!

I think a better comparison would be between the Jabba's Palace Lego set and the Jabba's Palace film set used in Return of the Jedi. The two are remarkably similar - it's as if the set was based off the scene in the film that is now 30 years old. The only offensive thing about the set is its price - £130 for 717 pieces - that's 16p a piece! EXTORTIONATE. But a great set.

- Dave, Lancs, 23/1/2013 22:42

Paul

Edited January 26, 2013 by paul_delahaye

[MadMan]

Aha, that was my comment. Glad you liked it.

But yeah, this is a jokey nonsense story, BUT the amount of casual racism in this thread and on the same topic on other discussion forums is shocking.

[Vindicare]

I heard that black-Jar Jar Binks thing. I guess I'm just an ignorant white American, but I never saw it. I've never heard a black person speak like Jar Jar does, ever. Now, if by "black people" they mean Jamacian, I can kind of see that due to their accent. I don't know, it's stupid no matter what. Nitpicking stuff like this seen in movies is such a waste of time.

[strangely]

I heard that black-Jar Jar Binks thing. I guess I'm just an ignorant white American, but I never saw it. I've never heard a black person speak like Jar Jar does, ever. Now, if by "black people" they mean Jamacian, I can kind of see that due to their accent. I don't know, it's stupid no matter what. Nitpicking stuff like this seen in movies is such a waste of time.

I can understand people thinking that about Jar Jar, but I personally don't. He's really too wacky and weird to really relate to any actual people. Even if the accent is similar the voice in itself is very cartoony. And in looks he's not really comparable to any human race.

There's honestly a number of characters where other than a specific accent their mostly fine.

In a lot of ways it's really quite hard to create a character completely devoid of all racial characteristics just because in both designing and acting in the movies you have people from all over involved, so undoubtedly a little bit of culture will seep into the movie. And I'm sure some of the more offensive characters weren't intentionally created to be offensive.

Edited January 27, 2013 by strangely

[into the blue]

Racism in Star Wars?

No!

Say it ain't so!

Come on now folks, it's a dead-end story, let's leave it go.

[Mister Phes]

Jar Jar Binks. That character is just dripping with black stereotypes.

Silly me! And here I was thinking Jim Carrey or Adam Sandler...

[Mister Phes]

I asked you some direct questions, and you chose not to answer them

Yes, that was my mistake. It was 6 in the morning when I responded and I interpreted those questions as rhetorical, but upon further review I see they're actual questions.

Are you saying you can stop nowhere? How many racial stereotypes are permissible? Is it fine to give a character loads of real, existing human racial stereotypes as long as they're called Jar-Jar and breathe water?

Yes, that is what I was saying.

If Jar-Jar was eating fried chicken and watermelon in every scene, would you accept that? At what point do you start?

I don't identify Jar Jar Binks with black stereotypes, rather he represents outlandish characters from any race, particularly slapstick comedians. For example: Charlie Chaplin.

But I think it starts when the portrayal is deliberately nasty or insulting, as though the filmmakers want to defame a particular race or culture, and make it unmistakable the character is from that culture.

With Jar Jar I didn't make the connection, but if they'd given him brown skin and curly black hair and named him "Bubba Binks", then things might be different.

I see you wrote "really white skin" as in an albino, and not 'white skin' as I was replying to. I'd like to just edit out the whole paragraph, but you're replying to it and don't want to seem as though I'm editing my post to favour me. Sorry, I read into something you wrote with something you didn't write. My mistake.

Perhaps I should have wrote "white minority group" of which albinos can be one such example.

But do you have an opinion? Is vilifying an albino any different to vilifying someone from a coloured race?

[Brickadeer]

Most hilarious news I've read in quite a while. Tell me, was there ever a controversy like this over the actual Star Wars films, and this is just being used as a platform for bringing it up again, or are the people protesting this set simply completely out-of-the-loop?

A case could definitely be made over the actual portrayal of Jabba's Palace in the Star Wars films having offensive cultural undertones... if not for the fact that it basically is just an extension of the already-established architecture of Tatooine, which was chosen for geographic (desert setting) rather than cultural associations.

In any event, I can see how this could quite rightly outrage a person who had never heard of the Star Wars setting it's based on and simply saw this being given as a gift to a similarly-unaware kid. That would definitely be more than a bit awkward. However, you'd think that a bit of research would reveal this to be just a wacky misunderstanding and nothing worthy of organized protest/petitions.

I don't find hilarious, I find it alarming. The protest is directed against TLC, a company located in Denmark, the country, where the so-called "Mohammed caricatures" were published a few years ago. Whether or not this protest has to be read in this larger context, it won't exactly further peacefull coexistence of different cultures in Europe.

[Aanchir]

I don't find hilarious, I find it alarming. The protest is directed against TLC, a company located in Denmark, the country, where the so-called "Mohammed caricatures" were published a few years ago. Whether or not this protest has to be read in this larger context, it won't exactly further peacefull coexistence of different cultures in Europe.

You make a good point; I apologize for my insensitive reaction. It is indeed a bigger issue when viewed in that context. My reaction was mainly because I was anticipating an accusation tied to an in-house LEGO brand or to the overall balance of races represented in licensed themes, and instead it turned out to be an accusation tied to a structure that TLG had depicted previously nearly a decade ago ago (not to mention the many more direct and somewhat questionable depictions of Middle Eastern cultures from other licensed themes like IJ) and which they probably could not have anticipated any sort of controversy over. It's not the discontent itself that I found funny, but what it was that prompted the discontent. And in retrospect, while it wasn't as big an issue as what I had been anticipating when I first read "LEGO accused of racism" on a forum thread, that doesn't mean it's trivial in any sense.

[def]

But do you have an opinion? Is vilifying an albino any different to vilifying someone from a coloured race?

I was never arguing against any portrayals in movies I was simply respecting that a minority group could have legitimate gripes without simplifying things and patronising them with statements like "I can tell the difference between movies and reality," which implies disagreers can't. The only thing I find laughable about this is a) they're complaining about a toy, and not the movie, and b) they're 30 years too late. I'm not Turkish, so I can't say how much this movie made by and featuring 'white' people reverberates with Turks, and their slim film history of being charicatures rather than characters in Western movies. I think the complaints of these people should be considered on a case by case basis. That's me

@Aanchair, as much as Tattooine was 'Middle Eastern,' I'd have to say Jabba's Palace was a lot more middle eastern looking that Owen Lars house. Maybe if Owen had smoked a hookah and and Aunt Beru had dressed like a belly dancer, the movies would have appeared more nuanced

[smellsgood]

I surely prefer that TLG not try to update the sets based on old movies to make them more politically correct, even to correct a subtly racist portrayal. It's not the same issue, but I thought it was very silly when they removed Nazis from all the Indiana Jones sets (or did I dream that?). I'm also reminded of this time that a colleague of mine at the university was looking at some pics of my old LEGO sets, and she was nice about it, but said that she thought the Islander sets were inappropriate, with their stereotyped portrayal and drawn-on cleavage and so on. But, if they were worried about not adhering to stereotypes, how could TLG make any minifig or culture look like anything? So, I don't care, as long as it's not something outrageous or really inappropriate (I can think of a few hypothetical examples).

[Faefrost]

I don't identify Jar Jar Binks with black stereotypes, rather he represents outlandish characters from any race, particularly slapstick comedians. For example: Charlie Chaplin.

But I think it starts when the portrayal is deliberately nasty or insulting, as though the filmmakers want to defame a particular race or culture, and make it unmistakable the character is from that culture.

With Jar Jar I didn't make the connection, but if they'd given him brown skin and curly black hair and named him "Bubba Binks", then things might be different.

The problem with Star wars and the prequels is Lucas tried to channel many of the serials that he grew up with and loved. This was for the most part good. But by the time of the prequels he had become powerful enough that no one bothered to point out when certain details might be problematic. Jar Jar is one of the results. Yes Lucas was seeking to channel some of the old slapstick from the classic black and white days. he failed to realize how much of the old stuff was of the "Step-n-fetch", and "Buckwheat" variety. JarJar was not intended to be a black character or in any way an insult. But he did kind of channel a great deal of comedy tropes that were very typical of the presentation of black actors during the dark days of early hollywood. Needless to say some took issue with that.

The Jabba's Palace thing is just insane. The building and look was designed 30 years ago by the late Ralph McQuarrie. Yes, it has a slight north african / Arabic feel to it. Simply because it had to blend with the setting, and they were using Tunisia for the location shots.

[MadMan]

I don't find hilarious, I find it alarming. The protest is directed against TLC, a company located in Denmark, the country, where the so-called "Mohammed caricatures" were published a few years ago. Whether or not this protest has to be read in this larger context, it won't exactly further peacefull coexistence of different cultures in Europe.

I think that's a really tenuous link. For one thing, this complaint about the Lego set was made by a handful of people and nothing significant came of it - it was reported almost as a funny story, which it was. To find it hilarious is fine, as it has no connection or influence or anything on peaceful relations between countries. It's a tenuous link.

[Brickadeer]

I think that's a really tenuous link. For one thing, this complaint about the Lego set was made by a handful of people and nothing significant came of it - it was reported almost as a funny story, which it was. To find it hilarious is fine, as it has no connection or influence or anything on peaceful relations between countries. It's a tenuous link.

The complaint was made by the General Secretary of the Turkish Cultural Community in Austria. That's the representitive of the Turkish Cultural Community in Austria, which, to me, is not just a handful of people. I don't believe that all Turkish people in Austria share the opinion of the General Secretary. But the point is that she was able to generate support for her position, and I'm rather sure that this support not only stems from people living in Austria. Since the impact of her complaint can hardly be measured, neither in current numbers nor in future action, I find it too early to decide if "nothing significant came of it".

I think that she made an interesting move: if TLC appologizes, it can be read as a confirmation that the Secretary's interpretation was right. If it doesn't, it can be read as a willfully and continued effort to indoctrinate children against Muslims, ignoring all complaints about it. That's what I'd call a win-win strategy. (Actually, the Secretary demands that the toys are withdrawn, which seems pretty unrealistic to me.)

Since she complaints about the "shocking red and black devil’s scowl at the top of the box packaging on the right, which is at least an obvious signal that the toy should not lie under the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve" as well, it seems that she wants to generate a broader support for her position. That's the only point that makes me considering the possibility that the link I suggest is a bit tenuous.

To me, the major question is whether it is a act of populism, or if she actually believes what she said.

@Aanchir: I basically understand and share your initial view: looking unbiased at the whole issue, the accusations seem to stem from a different world. Nevertheless, they were made.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Aanchir]

I surely prefer that TLG not try to update the sets based on old movies to make them more politically correct, even to correct a subtly racist portrayal. It's not the same issue, but I thought it was very silly when they removed Nazis from all the Indiana Jones sets (or did I dream that?). I'm also reminded of this time that a colleague of mine at the university was looking at some pics of my old LEGO sets, and she was nice about it, but said that she thought the Islander sets were inappropriate, with their stereotyped portrayal and drawn-on cleavage and so on. But, if they were worried about not adhering to stereotypes, how could TLG make any minifig or culture look like anything? So, I don't care, as long as it's not something outrageous or really inappropriate (I can think of a few hypothetical examples).

They didn't really remove Nazis from the Indiana Jones sets, but they basically made any Nazis in those scenes into generic tan-uniformed soldiers without any swastikas or other identifying features. The same was the case in the LEGO Indiana Jones video game (Swastikas were also omitted from level designs even if the corresponding movie scenes had conspicuous Nazi regalia). The reason for this is that it is illegal for video games and toys to be sold in Germany if they feature Nazi paraphernalia of any kind. (films are a different story, I believe, since there are exceptions made for certain artistic media), and Germany is one of TLG's biggest markets.

Anyway, I think TLG has made a fairly smart decision by issuing a press release that reiterates the set's intended subject matter and states regret for any unintended interpretations. Overall this should at least keep this hubbub from escalating into widespread hysteria, though I don't doubt that there will still be boycotts from certain communities, but within a year or so the set's intended shelf life will have ended and any lasting repercussions might serve as a learning experience for TLG. They might even take steps to preempt this kind of thing with future product releases... for instance, seeking to include a more diverse group of cultural backgrounds in focus group testing and other market research.

Meanwhile, I hope AFOLs also will learn from this that believe it or not, brand image can be tarnished heavily by a set's subject matter. Let's not forget the hubbub that erupts any time a Cuusoo project is rejected due to not meeting TLG's standards for what is "offensive". Certainly, LEGO Star Wars sales may be strong enough that Jabba's Palace will still be massively profitable. But in the meantime, there are now dozens if not hundreds of headlines circulating the internet that put "LEGO" and "racist" in the same sentence, which is not a good thing no matter what conclusions the articles favor. And given how much more of a risk LEGO Cuusoo sets are by the nature of the platform, a poorly-chosen licensing agreement could easily be a costly mistake that might not even pay off in terms of sales.

[Faefrost]

The complaint was made by the General Secretary of the Turkish Cultural Community in Austria. That's the representitive of the Turkish Cultural Community in Austria, which, to me, is not just a handful of people. I don't believe that all Turkish people in Austria share the opinion of the General Secretary. But the point is that she was able to generate support for her position, and I'm rather sure that this support not only stems from people living in Austria. Since the impact of her complaint can hardly be measured, neither in current numbers nor in future action, I find it too early to decide if "nothing significant came of it".

"The General Secretary of the Turkish Cultural Community" oh my doesn't that sound official and important? You assume that this person is in some way a representative of said community. We're they in some way elected? Is this some official government posting? I rather strongly suspect that you will find a very small fringe group of under 20 people seeking to make some sort of political name for themselves. They mean nothing, they represent nothing, they are as always self appointed leaders of the community in order to further their own agendas. I bet if you were to poll actual Austrian Turks they would admit that this sort of community leadership is sort of what they left Turkey to get away from.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Faefrost

[Brickadeer]

"The General Secretary of the Turkish Cultural Community" oh my doesn't that sound official and important? You assume that this person is in some way a representative of said community. We're they in some way elected? Is this some official government posting? I rather strongly suspect that you will find a very small fringe group of under 20 people seeking to make some sort of political name for themselves. They mean nothing, they represent nothing, they are as always self appointed leaders of the community in order to further their own agendas. I bet if you were to poll actual Austrian Turks they would admit that this sort of community leadership is sort of what they left Turkey to get away from.

It's a private organization, more precisely, this one. I don't assume that they represent the said community. Whether they were elected or not is completely irrelevant to the consequences of their actions. I agree that they may further their own agenda.

[Bioslayer]

_{http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2JgC3gvVe}

_{I think that I see a pattern developing at this website...}

Edited February 1, 2013 by Bioslayer

[brodey1]

People are so ridiculously politically correct these days that they are just looking for things to be offended about.

[Zaterdag]

Maybe because you're Italian? He speaks in a way very close to the way blacks used to be portrayed in films, and acts a fair amount like it too (bumbling, needy). There were a lot of complaints when it came out, and I'm guessing the reason they died down is because everyone hated him, including kids. I'm sure if you googled jar-jar and black, you'd get a lot of hits.

Okay if anyone out there is being racist its you. I would have never made that connection in a million years and you saying blacks are "bumbling and needy" is pretty terrible.

But, if they were worried about not adhering to stereotypes, how could TLG make any minifig or culture look like anything?

I like how minifigures from world cultures are stereotypes. How else would we be able to tell what they are? The Scottish CMF are very stereotypical and I like it.

People are so ridiculously politically correct these days that they are just looking for things to be offended about.

Yeah its pretty sad. People try so hard not to be racist that often they're more racist than racists themselves

[Lyichir]

_{http://www.dailymail...l#axzz2JgC3gvVe}

_{I think that I see a pattern developing at this website...}

The Daily Mail is notorious for sensationalist reporting. Nothing new here.

[def]

Okay if anyone out there is being racist its you. I would have never made that connection in a million years and you saying blacks are "bumbling and needy" is pretty terrible.

Please try to read things clearly and not have a knee-jerk reaction. I wrote: the way blacks used to be portrayed in films" not, "the way I see blacks"

And I did not invent the argument. Groups at the time did. And, having it pointed out, I can see it. If you look at old American film, particularly, pre-1960s, yes, there was a way they were often shown. It's not racist to note that, and others in the thread have described it too. Thanks for calling me racist though

[korpen4444]

Newspapers .. if they didn't contain ink, I'd use them in the toilet

Wooooow. Someone has WAY too much time on their hands. It's like the dude measuring and complaining about getting an 11 inch sandwich instead of a foot long at Subway.

And this article?

I can't stop laughing at this!

[DrJB]

I've seen enough 'bad' stories on the news that I'm leaning towards it being 'made up'. After all, western press is all about making the rest of the world look bad, especially in these troubled times where, rather than seeking similarities across nations and cultures, we have 'bigots' exploiting fear and sensationalism ... The paper article does not show any credible 'reference' ... as Turkey is NOT the cradle of such faith. Just beware what you read and accept, not everything in print (or on this vast internet) is absolutely credible ... Just sayin'

Edited January 31, 2014 by DrJB