LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Admiral Khan]

This is fun.

I almost think there should be whole new topic of the same topic, these pages are getting too long to organize certain threads.

[Darth Punk]

This is fun.

Variety is the spice of life

[Deathleech]

And here it is. The completely expected, long-winded reply from Deathleech. You disagree with me that Lego planned a 3rd wave based SOLELY on their lack of advertising it??? Yeah, that's why you get my "condescending tone" as you feel it is. You think Lego owes you full disclosure of everything they're doing and if YOU can't see it, it must not exist. Your logic is so badly flawed. Do you really think they planned out wave 1 without writing down plans for wave 2, 3 or more? When they planned wave 2, they definitely had plans for wave 3. And Lego brought it's A-Game to wave 1. I'm actually sick of reading your ignorant comments page after page. And your quote of Sir Blake is a good example: wave 2 was NOT a bunch of "screwball set choices". They make perfect sense if you have a wave 3 planned out. But you, in your short-sightedness, insist there wasn't one, because YOU don't see wave 3 pictured in the Hobbit booklets. I guess that means there's no Simpsons house, either?

Ahh, and here is more of the same ranting from MonkeyCrumb because he hasn't done that at all in the past several pages of this thread! So what is your stance on things, please tell us because we are all DYING to know!

Yes I think Lego's lack of advertisement for any LotR sets is a bad sign. They advertised in the past 4 waves so why stop now? How is that any sillier than you thinking the blatant lack of Gondor sets means there for sure is a waver 3? As I already pointed out, PotC ran it's complete course and they skipped tons of important sets and characters with that theme so Lego could do it again with LotR. If you have read my past posts though (which you surely have considering you know so much about me!), you will see I agree Lego probably DID plan on having a third LotR wave. I have said it a number of times, I think the second waves were cut in half when the Hobbit was turned into three films. I think most of the Gondor stuff got pushed to the third wave. What I disagree with you on is why would Lego release blatantly less appealing sets if the line's future was in doubt? You still have yet to comment on this and instead keep throwing around YOUR ignorant comments (which not just I, but EVERYONE is sick of reading). If Lego released wave 2 and it severely under performed and caused them to not release the planned wave three, shouldn't Lego of been at least a little aware that would happen with all their testing and data genius? So Lego has enough insight to plan out three waves and mix characters, but not enough to see a poor second wave could kill the line?

Yeah, you WANT to think I started getting "nasty" first. I guess you don't care to read what I was first responding to, huh? Hey, maybe next you guys will think LEGO sent me here to further tease and provoke you? You know, like they do with their releases, right?

I said it's LIKE they are teasing us, but I acknowledged full well that's not the case a few pages back. I am pretty sure everyone else feels the same. Great reading comprehension though slick. And here is a small sample of your "nasty" comments (note most people weren't even talking to you before you started spouting your mouth off):

Poor baby, you have "nothing left to buy".

You poor, poor starving people with your glasses half empty!!

What you kids fail to realize

And for an 18 and older site, there is a ton of immature tantrum throwing going on.

Uh, hey genius, it's the fact that you complain how it "doesn't make sense"

Thanks for contributing to the topic, oh wait. You didn't.

It's sad how you always have so much to say yet so little of it has meaning.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Deathleech

[Faefrost]

We haven't even seen leaked pictures of that series yet, but the Simpson House already has a release date. Therefore, you could argue that Lego used brand new head molds in a D2C set before releasing it in any other set.

New molds may appear first in a D2C set, If and only if their creation is justified, and on the production schedule for regular retail sets or CMF's. Case in point the new scooter. We first saw it in the Parisian Restaurant, but it was also planned and scheduled for Friends sets to allow for amortization. The fact that all the figures in the Simpson's House have new heads is an almost certain guarantee that each of those characters will appear in a variant form in the CMF's. (Also the Simpson's House might not actually be a limited run D2C? It might just be a very expensive regular retail set, and have a larger planned production run.) I think the only initial exception to this rule was the newer large train wheels, a long term use part, which a few of the designers had to pretty much sell their souls to get.

As far as why the Pirate Ship and why no Gondor sets, at least as of yet? I know the LotR purists hate the Pirate Ship. It is not viewed as a core essential LotR subject. But it IS a superb Lego subject. Something that attracts cross theme purchasers, and a bit of upper end contrast for what would otherwise be a theme of astonishingly similar look alike (to the regular consumer) castle walls with soldiers fighting Orcs. Whereas Helm's Deep is pretty much a large grey wall, following it up with a set that by any reasonably priced measure would be a large white wall in the next wave, at the same price point or in the flagship spot, might not have been viewed as the best marketing move. See the reason for the Ship is quite simply, you can have the Ship and Helms Deep on store shelves at the same time. They carry enough product distinctiveness to make them downright synergistic. Whereas it is much harder to do a Siege of Gondor set until all traces of Helms Deep are pretty much clear of the channel. The decision process isn't "what do we still have left to do?", it's "What did we do last time? What is still in the channel? What can we do next that is decidedly different than that to even the casual consumer?" (Yeah OK Star Wars gets a bit of a free pass with this. But that's a whole other level of merchandising crack. Middle Earth ain't there yet by a long shot. )

I hope we get another wave. Or better yet the LotR stuff becomes more ongoing. I think more than anything the obvious and different sets that they skipped were the Balrog and the Fel Beast. It's obvious from pics we have seen that they gave some thought to a Balrog. So you never know.

[MonkeyCrumb]

Hypocrisy = pot calling kettle black = a person is guilty of the same thing of which they accuse another.

Try looking up the definition of misconstrue, that might put you on the correct track.

I'm pretty sure everyone in this topic knows what they are talking about. Maybe we don't explain everything 100% in full detail, but that doesn't mean you have to jump on whatever we say and criticize it.

And we all understand that Lego is a business, this thread is base on what we think will be the future of Lego LOTR.

I am also sure that Lego had big plans for wave 3 of lotr. Why would they put out the sets they did in wave 2 and not give a hint of a Gondor type wave? Probably because they were planning on finishing it off with a bang and they got sidetracked or halted for an unknown reason.

You thought Lego was teasing you with their release plans. I disagree that everyone in this topic knows what they are talking about. It's very obvious that there are some who don't.

Ahh, and here is more of the same ranting from MonkeyCrumb because he hasn't done that at all in the past several pages of this thread! So what is your stance on things, please tell us because we are all DYING to know!

Yes I think Lego's lack of advertisement for any LotR sets is a bad sign. They advertised in the past 4 waves so why stop now? How is that any sillier than you thinking the blatant lack of Gondor sets means there for sure is a waver 3? As I already pointed out, PotC ran it's complete course and they skipped tons of important sets and characters with that theme so Lego could do it again with LotR. If you have read my past posts though (which you surely have considering you know so much about me!), you will see I agree Lego probably DID plan on having a third LotR wave. I have said it a number of times, I think the second waves were cut in half when the Hobbit was turned into three films. I think most of the Gondor stuff got pushed to the third wave. What I disagree with you on is why would Lego release blatantly less appealing sets if the line's future was in doubt? You still have yet to comment on this and instead keep throwing around YOUR ignorant comments (which not just I, but EVERYONE is sick of reading). If Lego released wave 2 and it severely under performed and caused them to not release the planned wave three, shouldn't Lego of been at least a little aware that would happen with all their testing and data genius? So Lego has enough insight to plan out three waves and mix characters, but not enough to see a poor second wave could kill the line?

I said it's LIKE they are teasing us, but I acknowledged full well that's not the case a few pages back. I am pretty sure everyone else feels the same. Great reading comprehension though slick. And here is a small sample of your "nasty" comments (note most people weren't even talking to you before you started spouting your mouth off):

Poor baby, you have "nothing left to buy".

You poor, poor starving people with your glasses half empty!!

What you kids fail to realize

And for an 18 and older site, there is a ton of immature tantrum throwing going on.

Uh, hey genius, it's the fact that you complain how it "doesn't make sense"

Thanks for contributing to the topic, oh wait. You didn't.

It's sad how you always have so much to say yet so little of it has meaning.

Hmm, maybe you weren't the only person to say that Lego was teasing you, and I wasn't specifically talking about just you? I know, hard to think I would address anyone else besides you? I like you you so quickly picked up the nasty, condescending tone that you so obviously hate. As Faefrost was wise to point out, it's obvious Lego gave thought to Balrog and Fell Beast designs at some point since they are in the marketing materials. You have blinders on since you can't seem to accept that Lego doesn't share with the public everything they work on. I guess they put together Orthanc overnight, since it rapidly went from being announced to showing up on shelves? Oh, wait, it was in that designer photo years ago. Sorry, I just can't tolerate the sheer absurdity and lunacy of all they lapses in logic and judgement occurring in this thread. I didn't know your egos were so delicate that you can't handle being pointed out when wrong, to the point where some people take offense at others being pointed out for being wrong! White Knight syndrome at work here.

[Gremer]

Anyways, I'm done with the argument. I have better things to do.

[CorneliusMurdock]

No more comments about this argument now. If you find someone is being offensive, please report it instead of replying to it.

A lot of you did report it and that's why the situation is being handled. Thank you.

[Deathleech]

I didn't know your egos were so delicate that you can't handle being pointed out when wrong, to the point where some people take offense at others being pointed out for being wrong! White Knight syndrome at work here.

Except who says we are wrong nd you are right? You could know just as little about Lego's plans as we do. You already demonstrated you have no idea what they were doing with the PotC line.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Deathleach, would you like to "take a break" as well? Stop, please. I'm handling this in private.

The important thing for everyone to remember is that this is the internet. A countless number of unique indivduals are online at any given time. There will never be a time when everyone agrees about just about any subject. If you post something once and you haven't changed someone's opinion, move on.

[Blakstone]

As far as why the Pirate Ship and why no Gondor sets, at least as of yet? I know the LotR purists hate the Pirate Ship. It is not viewed as a core essential LotR subject. But it IS a superb Lego subject. Something that attracts cross theme purchasers, and a bit of upper end contrast for what would otherwise be a theme of astonishingly similar look alike (to the regular consumer) castle walls with soldiers fighting Orcs. Whereas Helm's Deep is pretty much a large grey wall, following it up with a set that by any reasonably priced measure would be a large white wall in the next wave, at the same price point or in the flagship spot, might not have been viewed as the best marketing move. See the reason for the Ship is quite simply, you can have the Ship and Helms Deep on store shelves at the same time. They carry enough product distinctiveness to make them downright synergistic. Whereas it is much harder to do a Siege of Gondor set until all traces of Helms Deep are pretty much clear of the channel. The decision process isn't "what do we still have left to do?", it's "What did we do last time? What is still in the channel? What can we do next that is decidedly different than that to even the casual consumer?" (Yeah OK Star Wars gets a bit of a free pass with this. But that's a whole other level of merchandising crack. Middle Earth ain't there yet by a long shot. )

Exactly so. (I agreed with your entire post but I wanted to highlight this portion specifically. Both sets were kept in stock for a long time. The differences make that much easier than just another large faction "castle".

[ZCerberus]

Jeepers! I am gone for one day and this happens!

This thread has been getting crazy and it seems to be nearly the only one that ever gets reported as having this kind of non-sense go on.

I understand that everyone is very passionate and everyone has great ideas and suggestions for this line, but it seems like all that happens is arguments and fights lately. I know that LotR is a HUGE part of the History forum and one of the favorite topics of conversation is what LEGO should or shouldn't produce. I don't mind the discussion as long as it is civil. Cross that line though, and I will lock this thread and make everyone have a mandatory cool down period so we can continue in a civilized manner.

[csc166]

I am very curious to see the new mammoths in the chima wave to see if they could get a new print and be oliphants

[Risgrynsgrot]

I am very curious to see the new mammoths in the chima wave to see if they could get a new print and be oliphants

Nah. The new Mammoths look like bigfigs, like Hulk.

[Faefrost]

I am very curious to see the new mammoths in the chima wave to see if they could get a new print and be oliphants

It's Chima. It will be a Mammoth on wheels, with whirling helicopter blades and a rocket launcher.

[SandMirror38]

It's Chima. It will be a Mammoth on wheels, with whirling helicopter blades and a rocket launcher.

Haha that made my day :P

Prehaps Legolas could spin on the helicopterblades?

[ZCerberus]

That doesn't mean there won't be some construction ideas that will be Oliphant useful though! I am also curious to see what kind of inspiration we can pull from them.

[Deathleech]

As far as why the Pirate Ship and why no Gondor sets, at least as of yet? I know the LotR purists hate the Pirate Ship. It is not viewed as a core essential LotR subject. But it IS a superb Lego subject. Something that attracts cross theme purchasers, and a bit of upper end contrast for what would otherwise be a theme of astonishingly similar look alike (to the regular consumer) castle walls with soldiers fighting Orcs. Whereas Helm's Deep is pretty much a large grey wall, following it up with a set that by any reasonably priced measure would be a large white wall in the next wave, at the same price point or in the flagship spot, might not have been viewed as the best marketing move. See the reason for the Ship is quite simply, you can have the Ship and Helms Deep on store shelves at the same time. They carry enough product distinctiveness to make them downright synergistic. Whereas it is much harder to do a Siege of Gondor set until all traces of Helms Deep are pretty much clear of the channel. The decision process isn't "what do we still have left to do?", it's "What did we do last time? What is still in the channel? What can we do next that is decidedly different than that to even the casual consumer?" (Yeah OK Star Wars gets a bit of a free pass with this. But that's a whole other level of merchandising crack. Middle Earth ain't there yet by a long shot. )

Well the Pirate Ship was definitely unique, but why did Lego release the Black Gates set then? Sure it's a different color than Helm's Deep, but it literally is a black wall and gate. We already have gotten a lot of black spiky pieces with Orthanc and a wall with Helm's Deep, Uruk-hai Army, Mirkwood Elf Army, and Mines of Moria. I mean the Black Gates were not exactly the same as Helm's Deep and were a much lower price point (if you buy one, most seem to of bought two though..), but it's still similar. Minas Tirith would of hopefully been done in mostly white with a few light gray pieces vs Helm's Deep bley and sand green. Sure the color schemes are more similar than Helm's Deep and the Black Gates, but Minas Tirith would of hopefully been more than just a wall and would of had some of it's distinct round shape with tiers going up. So basically the color would of been more similar, but the the shape would of been quite a bit different? I understand where you are coming from though, two big castles aren't near as much variety as a pirate ship and castle. Maybe it was all the other wall based sets on top of Helm's Deep that also contributed to them making the pirate ship?

The real question I have is why didn't we get a large creature in the second wave? That would of been WAY different than anything in any of the LotR/Hobbit waves so far. The only other big brick built creatures we have gotten are Shelob who is an 8 legged spider, and the Ent in Orthanc. I think a black Balrog with wings and fire, or a big elephant Mumakil would of been plenty distinct looking. They would of also had a lot of appeal to kids AND to AFOL and LotR fans. Who wouldn't want to display a cool Balrog on their desk, even if they aren't a huge LotR fan? Or heck, why not a Fel Beast? If it was released in the second LotR wave, it would of been 10 months before Smaug is released giving it plenty of spot light on shelves. I feel like the two big selling features the LotR designers should focus on, besides the distinct builds and minifigures, are the army building aspect and the awesome fantasy creatures. AFOLs can get tons of soldiers and kids would love all the creatures because they look so cool, even if they aren't LotR fans. What kid wouldn't love a giant elephant with soldiers on it's back or a flying dragon-type creature?

Trying to re-create a huge location like Minas Tirith and do it justice is obviously going to be difficult for Lego with the price points they need to hit. Most of us can't even imagine a Minas Tirith for under $200, and even that would be incredibly condensed. In contrast a $40-50 Balrog or Mumakil would be SUPER easy to pull off. A $15 army builder would too and there are so many figures they could include in an army builder it's not even funny. The LotR films are known for their epic scale battles so it just make sense to do army builders for them. Even if Lego couldn't do a $15 battle pack due to licensing conflicts, they could do more UHA/MEA type sets? I feel like Lego just banked too much on the fact it's a pirate ship and attracting a lot of pirate fans with it (since there are currently no pirate offerings from Lego). They seemed to of alienated a ton of castle/LotR fans in the process though and I don't see a ton of pirate fans getting into LotR or even buying the one set. I mean I am sure there are some out there, but I don't see them rushing out to get the Pirate Ship Ambush set. I know we are adults so don't view things the same as Lego does or as kids do, but Lego doesn't exactly seem to be getting kids clamoring for LotR sets with their current offerings, and they are just making adults go WTF? It's like they are trying to please everyone and hit a home run, but instead are alienating most and striking out.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Deathleech

[Alcarin]

Lego doesn't exactly seem to be getting kids clamoring for LotR sets with their current offerings, and they are just making adults go WTF? It's like they are trying to please everyone and hit a home run, but instead are alienating most and striking out.

This exactly....

LOTR fans are going WTF and others are not buying those stuff.....

I have a feeling LEGO just got this license together with Hobbit and has no real idea what to do with it.....

[Nobrux]

This exactly....

LOTR fans are going WTF and others are not buying those stuff.....

I have a feeling LEGO just got this license together with Hobbit and has no real idea what to do with it.....

Agreed. I have the same feeling towards this matter. Although I'm not sure how unpopular this line is figuring out to be with younglings.

[Blazej_Holen]

I thought that Eurobrics is a serious forum and not a Troll´s kindergarden....

[Proximo]

lol just read the last pages... it seems that some people really become emotional when it comes to Lego Lord of the Rings.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Proximo

[deskp]

lol just read the last pages... it seems that some people really get emotional when it comes to Lego Lord of the Rings.

Lets hope lego is paying attention. Sadly it happened after hours on a friday x]

[greenalfonzo]

Lego seems to have done second wave more as typical 'Castle Theme' wave with Black Wall as bad guy 'castle,' pirate ship (remember Troll ship?) Maybe Lego does see Minith Tirith as a boring white wall repeat of Helms Deep that wouldn't appeal to retailers, and harder to do at a good pricepoint. But that is not an excuse why they didn't do Gondor at all, as they could still do what most people seem to be missing in Gondor soldier/Faramir in an Uruk Army-type set, or with Witch King/Fell Beast in a larger set, as has been pointed out that Lego already has the perfect solution for Gondor on the shelves under generic Castle line: Osgiliath ruin, landing barge, Witch King on Fell Beast, 2x Orc, 2x Gondor soldier, Faramir in Ranger gear. $60. (Dragon Mountain is $50.) Yeah, it would be missing Frodo to complete the scene, but I don't think anyone would mind.

By the way, I think bringing back generic Castle theme in 2013 was a really bad business decision. I skipped the entire line as I prefer LOTR/Hobbit. Same thing I think goes for parents who might have bought more LOTR if kiddie castle was not a option (and if the LOTR second wave was a little more 'castley'). I'm guessing they didn't sell that many more individual sets by having two lines, but spent a whole lot more money on development. Very curious what will happen in 2015 with the generic Castle theme apparently ended as well.

[MKJoshA]

Please, everyone, read what has been said before you. All these arguments that keep coming back are getting tiring.

[Admiral Khan]

Lego seems to have done second wave more as typical 'Castle Theme' wave with Black Wall as bad guy 'castle,' pirate ship (remember Troll ship?) Maybe Lego does see Minith Tirith as a boring white wall repeat of Helms Deep that wouldn't appeal to retailers, and harder to do at a good pricepoint. But that is not an excuse why they didn't do Gondor at all, as they could still do what most people seem to be missing in Gondor soldier/Faramir in an Uruk Army-type set, or with Witch King/Fell Beast in a larger set, as has been pointed out that Lego already has the perfect solution for Gondor on the shelves under generic Castle line: Osgiliath ruin, landing barge, Witch King on Fell Beast, 2x Orc, 2x Gondor soldier, Faramir in Ranger gear. $60. (Dragon Mountain is $50.) Yeah, it would be missing Frodo to complete the scene, but I don't think anyone would mind.

By the way, I think bringing back generic Castle theme in 2013 was a really bad business decision. I skipped the entire line as I prefer LOTR/Hobbit. Same thing I think goes for parents who might have bought more LOTR if kiddie castle was not a option (and if the LOTR second wave was a little more 'castley'). I'm guessing they didn't sell that many more individual sets by having two lines, but spent a whole lot more money on development. Very curious what will happen in 2015 with the generic Castle theme apparently ended as well.

I dislike the new castle theme anyway, but I think it was a bad decision for Lego to come out with essentially 3 waves of castle type themes. (Hobbit, Castle, and lotr) I think this castle theme was a failure and was never meant to be a really prosperous theme. I think that lego will be doing a 3rd wave of Lotr and then after that they will make a new castle theme and hopefully they change it up a bit instead of making the same olf prison carriage, dragon fortress, catapult attack etc.