LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Zilcho]

The thing is, even if Hobbit sets do outstanding I do not think (granted its ''retired'' theme) LEGO can launch production cycle fast enough to hope for 2015 release of LOTR then.......

Maybe if the new hobbit sets sell well they could make a wave for 2016?

Harry Potter went 3 years without a set and then came back better than ever.

Maybe one day they will make a Silmarillion movie/TV show and we can get more sets....

[Alcarin]

Maybe if the new hobbit sets sell well they could make a wave for 2016?

Harry Potter went 3 years without a set and then came back better than ever.

Maybe one day they will make a Silmarillion movie/TV show and we can get more sets....

Possibly... we can all hope....

But the best I hope for, is that theory of wave 2 for both Hobbit and LOTR being split due to 3rd movie is true, and next year December we get 6 or so sets 4 LOTR + 2 hobbit with the Blue ray release of both Hobbitand LOTR collection + 2 LOTR polybags preferably Gondor Ranger and some bad guy maybe a new Orc or even Gothmog....

And we get 2 Hobbit sets, whatever, maybe another extension to Erebor (20$ set) like the one for Dol Guldur and then we get 26.99$ set Balrog with Gandalf and possibly another Boromir, and a few bigger sets including Gondor soldier(with unique helm + shield), Faramir, Eowyn and Witch king on fel beast.....

that would be enough for me :P

[Robert_88]

Maybe we won't get another LotR wave but an existing mold increases the chances to get a D2C set.

[LegoThomas]

The new turtles soldier minifig head would be perfect for a Haradrim... :-)

[atreyu2112]

If you're talking about the TMNT Dark Ninja/Chris Bradford, I agree 100%

My thoughts on the split wave theory ... If it's true, the sets have already been made, all the prep work has been done. If they did intent on doing just 2 large waves and we only got half (LotR wave 2), then the remaining sets have either already been produced to meet the timing of product release, or It just simply needs to be put into production (if it hasn't already). NULLIFYING the 8 month thing.

IMO, Lego is a big enough company where they can do what they want. I think the LotR line was simply a labor of love. They got the Hobbit license and thought it would be awesome to do some LotR too, they didn't have to, but they're Lego to they did. Mark my words, everything we want to fill the gap exists and is ready to go. For whatever reason, they aren't hooking us up. But if they decided to do another LotR wave, it would be a simple phone call or email.

[Faefrost]

Many people speculate that the second wave was split. If this is true how likely is it that some new molds were already produced?

Unlikely I would think. I suspect the decision regarding how many LotR waves was made 2 years ago when PJ split the Hobbit from 2 to 3. They probably opted to change a planned 3rd LotR wave to a 3rd Hobbit one. This would make the most sense. In fact from a business sense swapping the 3rd LotR wave for a 3rd Hobbit instead would be a no brainer.

- generally unless you hit some sort of crazy StarWarsesque synergy, generally a third wave of a line would be the point of trending down. Unless a new movie is releasing.

- the level of boost Lego would get from tying directly to a third in theaters Hobbit movie cannot be downplayed. Watch what will happen to the GotG sets come the first week in August. Yes we AFOL Tolkien fans are passionate. But ultimately these are kids toys. And the kids are the major purchasers. They buy what they see on screen they will be buying the big Dragon.

- by all appearances the first Hobbit wave did much much better than the first LotR wave. Bag End in particular was a Christmas season must have. Whereas LotR really had no show stopping top selling set, save perhaps the Army builder.

- like most movie licenses the license itself was probably somewhat short. Maybe 5 years max. Middle Earth is sadly not a stand alone multimedia merchandising juggernaut like SW or Super Heroes.

- it is extremely rare for ANY non Evergreen theme to go past or even receive three waves. Tolkien seems to have been planned for 5. All they did was swap focus on the last.

The decision was probably made far enough back that no new tooling was produced. Probably just some sculpted and cast prototypes. Which they make and abandon all the time. Orthanc was probably designed after the decision, in part to use the new Eagle mold. And to appease the hardcore fan base with a huge surprise. (Also remember Hobbit probably has a much much higher "new mold budget" because it is tied to current movies. They could get far more financing because of that. That could be why the license is two themes.)

This of course assumes that they ever planned or considered a third wave for LotR. LotR may have just been filler until the full range of Hobbit subjects were available. For all of our cries of things missing, they did cover the three movies rather broadly. And in ways that make sense from a Lego design perspective. We have 5 Fellowship sets, 3 Two Towers sets, 3 RotK sets, and Orthanc and Orc Forge which kind of straddle movies. And we have a set from what can be viewed as the climax (black gate. I never said it was a good set.)

In terms of Lego design it makes perfect sense. First wave we got the big good guy castle. Second wave we got a smaller bad guy castle. A big vehicle and it finished off with a spectacular bad guy castle. This is not an unusual pattern for Lego.

[Faefrost]

The new turtles soldier minifig head would be perfect for a Haradrim... :-)

I use the PoP Hassasim figs for Haradrim.

[LegoThomas]

i ment that guy!

[Faefrost]

Was looking at the reviews of the China Ice Mammoth. Why oh why does Mark Stafford avoid doing licensed themes? :_(

It looks like it might have some potential for MOC'ing up an Oliphant. Certainly a better starting point then the AT-AT.

[Deathleech]

Unlikely I would think. I suspect the decision regarding how many LotR waves was made 2 years ago when PJ split the Hobbit from 2 to 3. They probably opted to change a planned 3rd LotR wave to a 3rd Hobbit one. This would make the most sense. In fact from a business sense swapping the 3rd LotR wave for a 3rd Hobbit instead would be a no brainer.

Well it would also make sense to make the second LotR wave a little larger than four sets. Six would of worked perfectly and Lego could of covered all the big LotR stuff they missed with just two more. They could of also made a wave with the current four Hobbit sets and two LotR ones as another option. I feel like the small four set waves were either to compensate for split waves, or for lacking sales.

- by all appearances the first Hobbit wave did much much better than the first LotR wave. Bag End in particular was a Christmas season must have. Whereas LotR really had no show stopping top selling set, save perhaps the Army builder.

Well in all fairness the Hobbit wave was released right before Christmas which is the biggest time of the year for toy sales. Also the Hobbit wave had a movie to support it while the LotR wave kinda came out of no where to unsuspecting fans and had VERY little advertising or tie ins done.

This of course assumes that they ever planned or considered a third wave for LotR. LotR may have just been filler until the full range of Hobbit subjects were available. For all of our cries of things missing, they did cover the three movies rather broadly. And in ways that make sense from a Lego design perspective. We have 5 Fellowship sets, 3 Two Towers sets, 3 RotK sets, and Orthanc and Orc Forge which kind of straddle movies. And we have a set from what can be viewed as the climax (black gate. I never said it was a good set.)

In terms of Lego design it makes perfect sense. First wave we got the big good guy castle. Second wave we got a smaller bad guy castle. A big vehicle and it finished off with a spectacular bad guy castle. This is not an unusual pattern for Lego.

I think Orc Forge and Orthanc were mostly FotK and TTT based sets, but regardless the RotK sets seemed to really be lacking. I understand Lego went with the Pirate Ship to try and appeal to ship fans as well as LotR fans, but come on! They couldn't of made a Balrog instead? That would of appealed to monster fans and kids as well as LotR fans. If Lego was worried that was too dark or demonic, why not give us a cool Witch King vs Eowen or Faramir set with a Fel Beast, some Gondor Soldiers, and a new Orc print or two? I think the Fel Beast would of been a huge hit even with non-LotR fans because it would look so cool. Instead we got a scene only seen in the movies a few minutes.

Heck, Lego could of even kept their current line up and just made wiser minifigure choices. Black Gates could and should of had a Gondor Soldier or two in it. I would of loved to have seen Lego gone further with the multi purchase marketing they did for this set and include an extra minifigure or three to make it a quasi army builder. Lego was already advertising multiple purchases so why not make the minifigures more as appealing as the build when you buy several? Imagine an eagle, black horse, Gandalf the White, Aragorn in Gondor attire, two Gondor Soldiers, the Mouth of Sauron and one new Orc print (which could have been re-used twice in the Pirate Ship Ambush set). That way they just covered a HUGE faction that is sorely missing right now at very little extra cost to them. This would of made the set infinitely more appealing too. I can't speak for others, but I would of probably bought ten of them, if not more, if it had Gondor Soldiers in it.

This is really my problem with the Lego LotR line too. It's like there were just so many missed opportunities, even with what they did release. I understand not every character and scene can feasibly be made into a set, but how do you just leave out 1/3 of the factions and characters in the trilogy? And not only that, we got characters like Haldir, Grima, the Mouth of Sauron, and the Undead when most are hardly featured in the films or have relatively minor roles compared to characters like Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch King, and Gondor Soldiers. It's like a huge WTF? It makes no logical sense. I really wish Lego would of gotten the LotR license over a decade ago when the movies were being released in theaters. I feel they would of had much better sales and we could of easily seen three or even four waves with EVERYTHING covered. As is, the Hobbit films just don't seem to be anywhere near as good as the LotR ones, and the sets are much more lackluster in comparison.

[Faefrost]

Well it would also make sense to make the second LotR wave a little larger than four sets. Six would of worked perfectly and Lego could of covered all the big LotR stuff they missed with just two more. They could of also made a wave with the current four Hobbit sets and two LotR ones as another option. I feel like the small four set waves were either to compensate for split waves, or for lacking sales.

Well in all fairness the Hobbit wave was released right before Christmas which is the biggest time of the year for toy sales. Also the Hobbit wave had a movie to support it while the LotR wave kinda came out of no where to unsuspecting fans and had VERY little advertising or tie ins done.

I think Orc Forge and Orthanc were mostly FotK and TTT based sets, but regardless the RotK sets seemed to really be lacking. I understand Lego went with the Pirate Ship to try and appeal to ship fans as well as LotR fans, but come on! They couldn't of made a Balrog instead? That would of appealed to monster fans and kids as well as LotR fans. If Lego was worried that was too dark or demonic, why not give us a cool Witch King vs Eowen or Faramir set with a Fel Beast, some Gondor Soldiers, and a new Orc print or two? I think the Fel Beast would of been a huge hit even with non-LotR fans because it would look so cool. Instead we got a scene only seen in the movies a few minutes.

Heck, Lego could of even kept their current line up and just made wiser minifigure choices. Black Gates could and should of had a Gondor Soldier or two in it. I would of loved to have seen Lego gone further with the multi purchase marketing they did for this set and include an extra minifigure or three to make it a quasi army builder. Lego was already advertising multiple purchases so why not make the minifigures more as appealing as the build when you buy several? Imagine an eagle, black horse, Gandalf the White, Aragorn in Gondor attire, two Gondor Soldiers, the Mouth of Sauron and one new Orc print (which could have been re-used twice in the Pirate Ship Ambush set). That way they just covered a HUGE faction that is sorely missing right now at very little extra cost to them. This would of made the set infinitely more appealing too. I can't speak for others, but I would of probably bought ten of them, if not more, if it had Gondor Soldiers in it.

This is really my problem with the Lego LotR line too. It's like there were just so many missed opportunities, even with what they did release. I understand not every character and scene can feasibly be made into a set, but how do you just leave out 1/3 of the factions and characters in the trilogy? And not only that, we got characters like Haldir, Grima, the Mouth of Sauron, and the Undead when most are hardly featured in the films or have relatively minor roles compared to characters like Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch King, and Gondor Soldiers. It's like a huge WTF? It makes no logical sense. I really wish Lego would of gotten the LotR license over a decade ago when the movies were being released in theaters. I feel they would of had much better sales and we could of easily seen three or even four waves with EVERYTHING covered. As is, the Hobbit films just don't seem to be anywhere near as good as the LotR ones, and the sets are much more lackluster in comparison.

Oh I don't disagree. But we will never know the full reasons behind some of the choices. And it isn't unique to this line. Heck given the length and breadth of the Star Wars line it is often surprising some of the things either missing from over there, or that have not been done beyond a very brief near impossible to get exclusive set. Like Bespin.

It's obvious from some of the development photos that they at a minimum had sketch models for Lothlorien and the Balrog encounter. Maybe not pleased with the results? Maybe cut for shelf space or tested poorly? Maybe they didn't want to go full Bionacle / Hero Factory for a LotR set?

As for characters? Missing Eowyn is the big one. Witch King in helmet comes in second. (The lack of that set may have simply been a restricted new parts budget. But then why do the Mouth over the WK?) Honestly I never understand the deep love for Faramir around here? Yes he is a named character. But pretty much all of his actual lines and development are, like the Pirate Ship all in the extended edition. And what we see of him marks him as a bit of a twit to be honest. OK it would be cool to have a Ranger Torso. But really we did not see much more of him than Haldir. Heck the unknown elf lovingly dubbed Figwit by the fans has and does more across the 6 released movies. So as you see they will never be able to please everyone. As it stands we got the Fellowship, Gollum, Elrond, Saruman, and an assortment of Orcs. Everything past that is pure gravy.

I've said it before, the Pirate Ship is a not particularly desired LotR set... but it is an utterly fantastic Lego set. One of the better lower priced ships they have done in years. And one that will command a high aftermarket price down the road, alongside Helms Deep.

[Alcarin]

Unlikely I would think. I suspect the decision regarding how many LotR waves was made 2 years ago when PJ split the Hobbit from 2 to 3. They probably opted to change a planned 3rd LotR wave to a 3rd Hobbit one. This would make the most sense. In fact from a business sense swapping the 3rd LotR wave for a 3rd Hobbit instead would be a no brainer.

- generally unless you hit some sort of crazy StarWarsesque synergy, generally a third wave of a line would be the point of trending down. Unless a new movie is releasing.

- the level of boost Lego would get from tying directly to a third in theaters Hobbit movie cannot be downplayed. Watch what will happen to the GotG sets come the first week in August. Yes we AFOL Tolkien fans are passionate. But ultimately these are kids toys. And the kids are the major purchasers. They buy what they see on screen they will be buying the big Dragon.

- by all appearances the first Hobbit wave did much much better than the first LotR wave. Bag End in particular was a Christmas season must have. Whereas LotR really had no show stopping top selling set, save perhaps the Army builder.

- like most movie licenses the license itself was probably somewhat short. Maybe 5 years max. Middle Earth is sadly not a stand alone multimedia merchandising juggernaut like SW or Super Heroes.

- it is extremely rare for ANY non Evergreen theme to go past or even receive three waves. Tolkien seems to have been planned for 5. All they did was swap focus on the last.

The decision was probably made far enough back that no new tooling was produced. Probably just some sculpted and cast prototypes. Which they make and abandon all the time. Orthanc was probably designed after the decision, in part to use the new Eagle mold. And to appease the hardcore fan base with a huge surprise. (Also remember Hobbit probably has a much much higher "new mold budget" because it is tied to current movies. They could get far more financing because of that. That could be why the license is two themes.)

This of course assumes that they ever planned or considered a third wave for LotR. LotR may have just been filler until the full range of Hobbit subjects were available. For all of our cries of things missing, they did cover the three movies rather broadly. And in ways that make sense from a Lego design perspective. We have 5 Fellowship sets, 3 Two Towers sets, 3 RotK sets, and Orthanc and Orc Forge which kind of straddle movies. And we have a set from what can be viewed as the climax (black gate. I never said it was a good set.)

In terms of Lego design it makes perfect sense. First wave we got the big good guy castle. Second wave we got a smaller bad guy castle. A big vehicle and it finished off with a spectacular bad guy castle. This is not an unusual pattern for Lego.

Ok lets assume they made the decisions 2 years ago when movies were split in 3.....

Why keep the 4 set decision then,,, they could indeed add 2 more + 1 exclusive andm ake it the same as wave 1 and please 99%.... (Faramir, Eowyn, Witch King and Gondor soldier) 2 sets could contain 4 most needed and wanted figs with 1 unique shield and unique molded helm for soldiers of Gondor and a few new printings and witch king mold (instead of Mouth wtf!)

I really dont know, but it seems weird and ridiculous to say the least.....

If LOTR is done, this will truly be the biggest missed opportunity for LEGO ever...

[Sarah]

So, to carry on the conversation from the previous page, assuming TLG would still have the license, would it be more profitable for TLG to make more Middle-earth waves or an in-house Castle theme? Any clues on this?

in-house Castle. Less restraints on what they can do by the license holder. Less pre-conceived notions by the people deciding whether to buy it.

[SMC]

But nobody will buy it no matter what or just for 1 great fig

[Blakstone]

I think a licensed line would be more profitable but only when there is existing media tie-in to help drive sales. However, this will be the last Hobbit film so there is not any media tie-in to drive a third LotR wave.

I see many reference the DVD release of Battle of the Five Armies, but I don't see there being enough advertising blitz to allow LEGO Lord of the Rings to ride the coat tails.

I think the LEGO is going to do a complete reset on Castle. Hopefully it will include minifigure prints that have a broader appeal to adults without turning off kids. Castle 2013 is going on clearance without any new sets on the horizon.

[Lancethecat]

At first when I saw the Pirate Ship Ambush set, I thought that LEGO was just planning on keeping the theme going for a few more years and wanted to mix sets based on unimportant scenes with more popular sets so they wouldn't run out of material to work with by the final wave. I'm still holding onto a glimmer of hope that that's the case; it would just be weird for them to release the ship from the Minas Tirith scene but not Minas Tirith itself.

[Sarah]

I've said it before, the Pirate Ship is a not particularly desired LotR set... but it is an utterly fantastic Lego set. One of the better lower priced ships they have done in years. And one that will command a high aftermarket price down the road, alongside Helms Deep.

I *love* The Pirate Ship scene in the book. It alsways seemed pivotal to me. When Aragorn accepts that he will be King and starts making definite moves in that order

And they made the pieces GLow-in-the-dark! :)

[Blakstone]

I believe the designers video admitted that this set was added to give Pirates fans something of interest for the year. I have no beef with that. The only compliant I ever had for this set is that Gimli is in it. This is the four set he was included in. I felt that was overkill and the space could be better used for another Corsair.

Right now Pirate Ship Ambush is one of only two Tolkein sets I have on display. I added extra ghost soldiers to it. The other is Bagend. I need to get Helms Deep back out but it so large to make it hard to display.

I have not even build my copy of the Orthanc until I figure out where to display it. Unlike many of my other LotR and Hobbit sets, I don't want to scrap it after I build it.

As to the Future of LEGO LotR, we know that the Hobbit adventure concludes this year (according to the ad in last year's instructions). While it is highly unlikely that LotR will continue, I think most of us are waiting until this year's Hobbit sets. I will lose all hope if there is not an ad for LotR there.

[Dr.Cogg]

I don't know about you guys ,but I think a Balrog or Witch King set would have sold better than the Elrond council set.

P.S.I hope lego makes a Sauron (like the one at the beginning of LotR or like the one in DoS) before they end the LotR theme.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Dr.Cogg

[Venkefedo]

I don't know about you guys ,but I think a Balrog or Witch King set would have sold better than the Elrond council set.

P.S.I hope lego makes a Sauron (like the one at the beginning of LotR or like the one in DoS) before they end the LotR theme.

I don't doubt the Balrog or Witch King would've sold better… much as I liked getting some Elven architecture and Elrond & Arwen figures (plus more Elven swords! Love those), I didn't like how puny it felt. I understood the Black Gate being one you have to double (I can imagine it starting off as a full gate, then gradually getting whittled down to the half-a-gate it became over the development process), but while I might wanna get more Council sets to build more of Rivendell, I don't much fancy having to do that just to have decent room for the council area itself (as-is, you bring in any other minifigs who were there, and they'd have nowhere to sit!). More Gimlis & Frodos mean more nice pieces for dwarf and hobbit customs, I guess, but… I dunno. Gimli & Frodo seemed like overkill. I totally get why they were in the set, but they're a deterrent to me getting any copies of the set.

The Balrog could've had a couple orcs in addition to Gandalf (a spiky helmet for those Moria orcs would be amazing!), and copies would be good for building armies & using Balrog pieces for MOCing other creatures. Witch-King & Fel Beast would almost certainly have great selling potential for getting more Nazgul as well as Fel Beasts for them to ride, and more Rohirrim via the Eowyn figure (if she had a helmet, too). And more Merrys and Theodens, if included, could also be used for beefing up the army.

A Sauron akin to the Sentinel or Groot could be a lot of fun…tho perhaps a bit too big

Edited July 16, 2014 by Venkefedo

[Zilcho]

How would you react if, at Comic-con, they officially announced the end of Lego Lord of the Rings, but did release 4/5 key minifigures (Sauron, Eowyn, Faramir, Haradrim, etc.) as exlcusive Comic-con figures? Would it be salt in the wound, or would it lighten the blow?

[Blakstone]

Never would happen but I would be willing to spend a fair amount for some of those figs. Eowyn and the Witchking the most.

Even if people could not get the official ones from SDCC, it would trigger people to sell duplicates of them on eBay.

[Gremer]

That would definitely be salt in the wound. "LotR is ending, but we're going to release a limited amount of figures that you'll never be able to get *insert troll face here*"

[Faefrost]

If they release anything at SDCC it will be Hobbit figs. There would be no marketing value or purpose to give away limited exclusive figs from a line that has effectively ended.

[Darth Punk]

That would definitely be salt in the wound. "LotR is ending, but we're going to release a limited amount of figures that you'll never be able to get *insert troll face here*"

Doing so would make absolutely no sense from any perspective. The exclusives are meant as promotional material, not a farewell finger. Nor would they announce an ending to TLoR,, which something they don't normally do anyway. Not to mention the fact they are still selling the second wave and have a third wave of hobbit coming out.

Unfortunately TLoR may be a casualty of the TLG's push away from licensed sets. A line that was used to build up to the hobbit movies and ended up not being the money maker to ensure its continuance.