LEGO LotR - general discussion

[BrickBob Studpants]

But remember that some catalogs called Hobbit wave 3 as Lord of the Rings and Hobbit.

It wasn't the catalogs, the confusion stemmed from a Hungarian website that had previously merged the two categories, so we didn't know whether it would be LOTR or Hobbit sets

[Alcarin]

It is time for another official LEGO reply to inquiries about the future of LEGO Middle-Earth:

While again pretty standard, they do say that there is not a decision (yet). Assuming they are telling the truth, isn't there a chance that a new LOTR wave could be coming? Let me explain:

Hypothetically, if the next LOTR wave would hit the stores, it would be at least six months after Hobbit wave 3 (which would make it spring/summer 2015), and maximum a year after (autumn/winter 2015). How long are sets in production? I believe more than a year, maybe two years, no? If they didn’t decide yet about an exit of (both!) the lines, wouldn’t that mean that there could be something in production?

If the end date of the lines is not fixed, then surely they are leaving something open for after the Hobbit wave 3, otherwise they could call it quits right now because the Hobbit sets are obviously finished (maybe only artwork and stuff like that) end they would know the end date. Also: they say the LOTR and Hobbit lines are very popular themes.

Then again, the reply could only be a way to keep us in the dark while they know it’s ending after October 2014…

I can only say: please keep sending LEGO emails so they know what their fans want, even when they don’t have to listen.

And yes, I àm desperate.

There was word that LEGO set needs about 2 years from idea and design to the shelf for selling......

So LEGO probably did more designs for LOTR/Hobbit sets and then picked out some and left some for now... now how much is from designer completing set to production I would not know...... but producing shoudl be easier than creating the whole set from scratch :)

As I said I hope we get news of LEGO LOTR for October release next year.... would be perfect!

[SMC]

I would hope LOTR would be seen before October if we got another wave should be around the release of the hobbit on dvd

[MKJoshA]

Don't forget about what they did with the Harry Potter line. It went almost completely defunct for over a year and then came back. And the Batman line scared everybody badly. And even thinking about PotC it's possible that Lego is waiting for the 5th movie to come out in 2017 before releasing more sets from the first 3 movies. Maybe Lego is just freaking us all out so that people will buy more Council of Elrond and Black Gate sets!

Edited July 28, 2014 by MKJoshA

[-Horizon-]

Don't forget about what they did with the Harry Potter line. It went almost completely defunct for over a year and then came back. And the Batman line scared everybody badly. And even thinking about PotC it's possible that Lego is waiting for the 5th movie to come out in 2017 before releasing more sets from the first 3 movies. Maybe Lego is just freaking us all out so that people will buy more Council of Elrond and Black Gate sets!

Would love for that to happen. It would be nice to see Gondorian Soldiers in LEGO Form.

[Hammerhand]

Don't forget about what they did with the Harry Potter line. It went almost completely defunct for over a year and then came back. And the Batman line scared everybody badly. And even thinking about PotC it's possible that Lego is waiting for the 5th movie to come out in 2017 before releasing more sets from the first 3 movies. Maybe Lego is just freaking us all out so that people will buy more Council of Elrond and Black Gate sets!

Not to go off topic, but I thought POTC was pretty much confirmed for 2017, did I miss something?...

But anyways, I really hope that this is the case, and they will have new LOTR next year. As of december of last year, I was 90% sure LOTR was continuing, but now I'm thinking that it's about 50:50. It really just doesn't make sense to not continue it though. Emitting some of the main scenes, and most iconic characters/factions from the line would be ludicrous. There's SO much potential, I just can't believe that TLG would be that dense, and let that opportunity go by. That's why I'm still hopeful that it just got pushed back by the third Hobbit wave. It just wouldn't make sense to not do more LOTR. If it did get pushed back, then they probably already have the sets pretty much finalized, so it wouldn't be that long after the third Hobbit wave that we'd see them introduce the sets.

If we don't see an advertisement for LOTR in the back of the Hobbit instructions though, than I'm thinking that the likelihood of it continuing is like 10% or less.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Hammerhand

[Faefrost]

It is time for another official LEGO reply to inquiries about the future of LEGO Middle-Earth:

While again pretty standard, they do say that there is not a decision (yet). Assuming they are telling the truth, isn't there a chance that a new LOTR wave could be coming? Let me explain:

Hypothetically, if the next LOTR wave would hit the stores, it would be at least six months after Hobbit wave 3 (which would make it spring/summer 2015), and maximum a year after (autumn/winter 2015). How long are sets in production? I believe more than a year, maybe two years, no? If they didn’t decide yet about an exit of (both!) the lines, wouldn’t that mean that there could be something in production?

If the end date of the lines is not fixed, then surely they are leaving something open for after the Hobbit wave 3, otherwise they could call it quits right now because the Hobbit sets are obviously finished (maybe only artwork and stuff like that) end they would know the end date. Also: they say the LOTR and Hobbit lines are very popular themes.

Then again, the reply could only be a way to keep us in the dark while they know it’s ending after October 2014…

I can only say: please keep sending LEGO emails so they know what their fans want, even when they don’t have to listen.

And yes, I àm desperate.

The Customer Service Department knows NOTHING about upcoming releases. Because they directly touch the public (us) they are never ever given any information that could be viewed as proprietary or partner only. They do not get to see the upcoming retailer catalogs. They don't find out about new releases until we tell them. They do not know that lines are ending or releasing or continuing. At best they get a briefing a week or two before release. They are deliberately and specifically kept isolated from any of this sort of information as a matter of business practice. And we as the general public will almost never have any direct contact with any other members of the Lego staff outside of controlled product release announcements. Those few of us who might be lucky enough to actually learn real info would typically be under strict NDA's.

[Faefrost]

Don't forget about what they did with the Harry Potter line. It went almost completely defunct for over a year and then came back. And the Batman line scared everybody badly. And even thinking about PotC it's possible that Lego is waiting for the 5th movie to come out in 2017 before releasing more sets from the first 3 movies. Maybe Lego is just freaking us all out so that people will buy more Council of Elrond and Black Gate sets!

Not to go off topic, but I thought POTC was pretty much confirmed for 2017, did I miss something?...

But anyways, I really hope that this is the case, and they will have new LOTR next year. As of december of last year, I was 90% sure LOTR was continuing, but now I'm thinking that it's about 50:50. It really just doesn't make sense to not continue it though. Emitting some of the main scenes, and most iconic characters/factions from the line would be ludicrous. There's SO much potential, I just can't believe that TLG would be that dense, and let that opportunity go by. That's why I'm still hopeful that it just got pushed back by the third Hobbit wave. It just wouldn't make sense to not do more LOTR. If it did get pushed back, then they probably already have the sets pretty much finalized, so it wouldn't be that long after the third Hobbit wave that we'd see them introduce the sets.

If we don't see an advertisement for LOTR in the back of the Hobbit instructions though, than I'm thinking that the likelihood of it continuing is like 10% or less.

Here is the key quote regarding Harry Potter going away and returning, from Professor David Robertson's book Brick by Brick and his lecture on the same materials (

)

"In 2003 they found that the only lines they had that were making a profit were Star Wars and Harry Potter. And Harry Potter was only profitable in years in which there was a movie released."

So they gave HP a pause in the off years, and brought it back to correspond with the further movies. Does anyone else see the problem with applying this to LotR? Show of hands? Similarly PotC ended after On Stranger Tides. It may and we hope it will resume when Dead Men Tell No Tales hits the screen. But there is no guarantee of that. We don't know the terms of the license. It's a safe bet that the PoTC license is on hold long enough for the non compete clause to end allowing Lego to put out a Pirate ship in 2015.

The big question is quite simply, with no more Middle Earth movies coming out is the LotR and Hobbit license profitable enough to warrant continuing without the built in marketing push. I hate to tell you all this, but in 99% of the cases the answer will be no. (among the many other causes of the financial crisis of 2003 was themes and licenses overstaying their welcome and their profit point.) The decision on whether to make more will be made by the business people. Those forecasting future sales. Those gauging interest from TRU, Walmart etc. Whether or not they have fully covered every major scene will play no part in it. Missing main characters will have no bearing. It will all be numbers and projections. And on that basis I don't think there is much of a chance. In order to break past these accounting and marketing limitations the theme subject has to literally be not just a movie or book sensation, but a full blown self sustaining multi media juggernaut. To date we have been blessed to see 2 licensed themes that qualify as this. Star Wars and Super Heroes. (Which effectively encapsulates Batman, Spiderman, Marvel, DC and for our discussion purposes TMNT). LotR has never quite been able to make that last jump to be fully self sustaining outside of the literary world. Nor has Harry Potter although it came closer. Disney Princesses is perhaps the only other current theme that effectively is its own independent merchandising juggernaut. (although I am not sure how it has done for Lego?)

[atreyu2112]

I think we forgetting about the fact that ONLY one more wave, of like 5 sets, is really all that's needed to fill the holes in the line to round it out and make it complete. Comparing it to evergreen licenses is a moot point because I don't really think anyone wants or expects LotR to be ongoing. We just want the opportunity to round out and complete the LotR theme.

Lego is a big enough company where they can release whatever they want. We KNOW these sets have been designed by them (the video game is proof). The movie tie-in would be the release of a complete blu-ray/dvd boxed set, or even the final Extended Edition blu-ray/dvd sets. So summer or fall of 2015 would be the perfect opportunity to give us a final LotR wave.

[MKJoshA]

Not to go off topic, but I thought POTC was pretty much confirmed for 2017, did I miss something?...

It is confirmed. That's why I think that Lego is holding off on any other PotC sets. I think they haven't dropped the line, they've just postponed it.

The decision on whether to make more will be made by the business people.

I can't believe that Lego is only driven by money. George Lucas maybe, but not Lego. At least not yet. The amount of minifigs they give out to kids at Comic Cons is proof of this (example being Azog from last year). While their main strategy may be in what makes money. Surely they take our views and wish-lists into consideration at least a little but. I work in marketing so I know the main drive is what makes the most money. But there are things we do that may not make the most money but will have other benefits. I think pleasing the LotR Lego fans (AFOLs and kids alike) will have enough value for Lego to pull something out of their hat before the end of 2015.

[Alcarin]

The thing is next year around fall/winter comes out another release of LOTR with Hobbit that will surely have media support....so thats the last good chance!

Also when kids and new generation will watch Hobbit they will possibly be introduced to LOTR and thats again ''support'' for sales....

[Trunkbass]

Now if Peter Jackson would decide to do a reboot of the LOTR movies in cinemas, but in 3D (like Lucas did with Star Wars) thàt would be a tie in :). And the timing would be perfect. New fans that only saw the Hobbit can enjoy the followup on big screen!

[LegoThomas]

Love the idea and the opportunities that come with it !!!

[SMC]

I think we forgetting about the fact that ONLY one more wave, of like 5 sets, is really all that's needed to fill the holes in the line to round it out and make it complete. Comparing it to evergreen licenses is a moot point because I don't really think anyone wants or expects LotR to be ongoing. We just want the opportunity to round out and complete the LotR theme.

I think this is a good point we don't need that much to round out the theme in terms of minifigures, I think most people will now be happy to just get the ones we are missing in a last wave even if its small.

Creatures on the other hand is a different matter with Balrog, Treebeard, Fell beasts, Mûmakil, Shadowfax, Ponys, Watcher in the Water, think this is a little odd as some of these would have sold really well

[Trunkbass]

^ I agree. Although it is true that we don't need much more sets minifigurewise, the theme is hardly exhausted.

I know Star Wars appeals to a much broader audience but Middle-Earth has AT LEAST as much variety for scenes that can be reanacted.

Just a LOTR wave 3 would be perfect, but it would be so nice to see both lines continue for a little longer in something like a combined Middle-Earth theme!

[Faefrost]

I think we forgetting about the fact that ONLY one more wave, of like 5 sets, is really all that's needed to fill the holes in the line to round it out and make it complete. Comparing it to evergreen licenses is a moot point because I don't really think anyone wants or expects LotR to be ongoing. We just want the opportunity to round out and complete the LotR theme.

Lego is a big enough company where they can release whatever they want. We KNOW these sets have been designed by them (the video game is proof). The movie tie-in would be the release of a complete blu-ray/dvd boxed set, or even the final Extended Edition blu-ray/dvd sets. So summer or fall of 2015 would be the perfect opportunity to give us a final LotR wave.

What I am saying is "what we need to complete our collections" or as you say "complete the line" probably does not factor into it. It is a simple equation. How much will it drop off once the movies end? Does that drop off fall below the viability of the license? Do we have enough remaining time on the license after all the third hobbit movie changes to even launch a third LotR wave with sufficient shelf life?

These are all key and legitimate business questions. Any discussions regarding filling out the movies critical scenes will not even begin until those questions have first been answered. The product line is in service to the business case. The business case does not service the product line. It's a lesson to many companies fail to learn to their detriment and downfall. And at the end of the day it is all about the business case. This is not some greedy capitalist quest for money. It is about informed proper decisions on how and where a company to apply its limited resources in order to properly service it's customers. It is how the whole thing works.

I can't believe that Lego is only driven by money. George Lucas maybe, but not Lego. At least not yet. The amount of minifigs they give out to kids at Comic Cons is proof of this (example being Azog from last year). While their main strategy may be in what makes money. Surely they take our views and wish-lists into consideration at least a little but. I work in marketing so I know the main drive is what makes the most money. But there are things we do that may not make the most money but will have other benefits. I think pleasing the LotR Lego fans (AFOLs and kids alike) will have enough value for Lego to pull something out of their hat before the end of 2015.

Sigh! It's comments like this that make me weep for the future. Lego's goals are to grow and make a profit. They have an obligation, like any business, to do this for their employees, their families and their customers. Profit is how they put bread on the table to feed their workers. Growth is how they give their customers the new and better things they have been asking for. In order to do this they must be careful and responsible conservative gardeners. Those products that are now longer providing towards growth or profit must be carefully pruned to make way for new growth. Yes there are exceptions but those exceptions will always go back to core business cases. We want Lego to make a profit. We want them to keep growing. Look at their releases this year. Just look at them. Now compare them to the dark years of the early 90's or 2003. Growth is good. Higher return on investment is good. It leads to better product, better paid employees and happier customers. As long as it is achieved in a carefully managed way.

Your George Lucas comment shows a particular degree of sadly quite common ignorance about key elements of business. Without GL seeking profit we never would have had Empire or Return of the Jedi. He gave up all of his pay and compensation from Star Wars and kept only the merchandising. He grew that merchandising well in a manner that satisfied the customers (the products are still selling to happy buyers and the original stuff is obscenely desirable aftermarket.) and permitted enough growth and profit that he was able to self finance ESB and ROTJ. Proper managing of his business gave us his fans and customers what we wanted. And that is all Lego is doing here with LotR's. They are making decisions in order to properly manage their business. Contrary to what certain educational institutions and clueless politicians teach, such proper management is not evil or unethical. It is in fact the exact opposite. It is how you provide steady stable well paying jobs and bring a host of goods and services into the community. And thus help grow your community. It is how you as a business owner do what you set out to do.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Faefrost

[Slobey]

I hate to say it but i think the middle earth sets will come to an end without a movie driving sales. As the LOTR/hobnit waves have come out they have become less widely available in my local stores with some stocking none or only the smallest set. We love the sets, but im afraid they lose out to chima, superheroes and starwars to the wider Lego buying public.

If this is the case, while ill be disapointed some races and locations etc werent covered im very thankful for what we have. If someone had told me 5 years ago Lego would produce a Bag End set, Helms deep and a UCS Orthanc I would have been over the moon....all im saying is it is easy to focus on the negative

[bachamn]

The Customer Service Department... are deliberately and specifically kept isolated from any of this sort of information as a matter of business practice. And we as the general public will almost never have any direct contact with any other members of the Lego staff outside of controlled product release announcements. Those few of us who might be lucky enough to actually learn real info would typically be under strict NDA's.

I'm just quoting this for emphasis; guys you're really not going to get anything substantial by writing and asking a CSR for info about the line. Even if they had the information (which they likely do not) disclosing it before the official release would cost them their job if they were caught (and surely LEGO logs/monitors their CSR conversations like any other corporation)

Now if Peter Jackson would decide to do a reboot of the LOTR movies in cinemas, but in 3D (like Lucas did with Star Wars) thàt would be a tie in :).

Even if this were the only way a 3rd wave could make it to the shelves, I really hope this doesn't happen. The whole 3D gimmick gets on my nerves, especially when watching the non-3D version of a film and the, "Wooooah watch out, that thing is coming right at youuuuuuu!" moments are noticeably isolated sequences.

I will say that IMAX 3D is at least watchable, but I'm never going to see another one of those "Real3D" releases.

Edited July 29, 2014 by bachamn

[Mahtion]

What I am saying is "what we need to complete our collections" or as you say "complete the line" probably does not factor into it. It is a simple equation. How much will it drop off once the movies end? Does that drop off fall below the viability of the license? Do we have enough remaining time on the license after all the third hobbit movie changes to even launch a third LotR wave with sufficient shelf life?

These are all key and legitimate business questions. Any discussions regarding filling out the movies critical scenes will not even begin until those questions have first been answered. The product line is in service to the business case. The business case does not service the product line. It's a lesson to many companies fail to learn to their detriment and downfall. And at the end of the day it is all about the business case. This is not some greedy capitalist quest for money. It is about informed proper decisions on how and where a company to apply its limited resources in order to properly service it's customers. It is how the whole thing works.

Sigh! It's comments like this that make me weep for the future. Lego's goals are to grow and make a profit. They have an obligation, like any business, to do this for their employees, their families and their customers. Profit is how they put bread on the table to feed their workers. Growth is how they give their customers the new and better things they have been asking for. In order to do this they must be careful and responsible conservative gardeners. Those products that are now longer providing towards growth or profit must be carefully pruned to make way for new growth. Yes there are exceptions but those exceptions will always go back to core business cases. We want Lego to make a profit. We want them to keep growing. Look at their releases this year. Just look at them. Now compare them to the dark years of the early 90's or 2003. Growth is good. Higher return on investment is good. It leads to better product, better paid employees and happier customers. As long as it is achieved in a carefully managed way.

Your George Lucas comment shows a particular degree of sadly quite common ignorance about key elements of business. Without GL seeking profit we never would have had Empire or Return of the Jedi. He gave up all of his pay and compensation from Star Wars and kept only the merchandising. He grew that merchandising well in a manner that satisfied the customers (the products are still selling to happy buyers and the original stuff is obscenely desirable aftermarket.) and permitted enough growth and profit that he was able to self finance ESB and ROTJ. Proper managing of his business gave us his fans and customers what we wanted. And that is all Lego is doing here with LotR's. They are making decisions in order to properly manage their business. Contrary to what certain educational institutions and clueless politicians teach, such proper management is not evil or unethical. It is in fact the exact opposite. It is how you provide steady stable well paying jobs and bring a host of goods and services into the community. And thus help grow your community. It is how you as a business owner do what you set out to do.

I agree with you on certain points regarding the need for profit for company sustainability and Lucas self financing for his movies. Though let's not conflate high dividends with employee satisfaction or improved benefits. A company like Lego could use their acquired financial resources to provide a better product or hire more people but they are not required to. In many cases this does not happen, the company shares the profits with their executive board and the CEO. With LOTR Lego, more profits are good because it means the line will likely continue but is no guarantee.

In the United States we see a form of avarice that has not existed in decades. Certainly, there exist sound strategies for corporate growth but most of the time it is just greed. Companies have deliberately kept wages low weakening the middle class and their purchasing power. Doing things like having satisfied well paid employees seems to make good business sense and yet corporations are reluctant to do simple things which will actually increase profit. A stronger middle class would spend more and be able to better stimulate the economy. Such short sighted perspective is illogical and seems driven by a blind greed. Lego is not a US company, so they may have higher standards and hopefully we will see that reflected in better Lego products and more detail spent in LOTR as we have seen with better print detailing and more unique molds being produced. More profits for Lego from the movie and themes will allow Lego to take more risks and be more artistic.

Not to mention all the dangerous shortcuts companies take to save initial costs and end up paying more down the road. Or the neglect of safety and regulatory practices to save marginally and yet again pay or will pay much more when a problem will arise. One last note, yes Lucas created a merchandise juggernaut but some of his questionable choices to benefit the toy market such as keeping Han Solo alive for more action figures seems a bit skewed in priorities. I am sure he weighed his options but we shouldn't sacrifice all art and vision for immediate profit in every case. At this point Lego does care more about their product name and they have gone to great lengths to publicly spread good business by allowing kids to keep their creations and giving out more exclusives.

And the same should be said about sacrificing non renewable resources or public needs for fiat money that is not even backed by real currency anymore. Why sacrifice lives and human safety and viability for just a little bit more profit, I can only see the answer as being greed. While business is very important, it should not be the only consideration and priority. I am certain working for Lego or on the LOTR theme is a fun and rewarding job and since Lego is a European company, they probably follow all the safety and environmental regulations and pay their due taxes to their country which does support their community. Good job Lego! I hope they decide to continue LOTR and perhaps they will.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Mahtion

[Trunkbass]

I'm just quoting this for emphasis; guys you're really not going to get anything substantial by writing and asking a CSR for info about the line. Even if they had the information (which they likely do not) disclosing it before the official release would cost them their job if they were caught (and surely LEGO logs/monitors their CSR conversations like any other corporation)

It's not as much trying to know what the future of the LOTR theme will be, but as letting thém know we are eager for more. I know al the business stuff is probably more important but if the Customer Services passes through our wishes it's every little bit that can help, in my opinion.

Even if this were the only way a 3rd wave could make it to the shelves, I really hope this doesn't happen. The whole 3D gimmick gets on my nerves, especially when watching the non-3D version of a film and the, "Wooooah watch out, that thing is coming right at youuuuuuu!" moments are noticeably isolated sequences.

Secondly, I agree about the whole over the top 3D movement. In fact I hate watching movies in 3D because it is not comfortable at all. But if this would mean that we'll get more LOTR and Hobbit sets, I would not disaprove at all. After all, you don't nééd to watch them and the LOTR movies have already been made, there is no way they could screw them up by making them in 3D.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Trunkbass

[MKJoshA]

Wow, totally didn't mean to start a discussion on good business practices. Please don't get me wrong. I understand the need for companies to cut products that don't sell and fund ones that do. All I was trying to say was that sometimes business look at more than just gross revenue to decide whether to keep a product or not. As for wanting Lego to continue it's profit growth. I don't think anyone here disagrees. We want Lego to continue down the fabulous road they've been on for the past few years.

[Deathleech]

Proper managing of his business gave us his fans and customers what we wanted. And that is all Lego is doing here with LotR's. They are making decisions in order to properly manage their business.

I totally understand what you are saying, and quite honestly the LotR and Hobbit themes don't seem to be selling incredibly well. They might be doing ok and turning a profit, but they are not on the same level as Lego's cash cows like Star Wars, City, Ninjago, Friends, etc. If you look at Lego Ideas there isn't a single LotR or Hobbit project with over 5,000 votes, let alone anywhere close to 10,000. The last Hobbit wave was barely stocked in stores when it was first released compared to The Lego Movie which had half an aisle, end caps, etc. full of product. So with all of this in mind, given the choice between more Star Wars sets with their budget or more LotR sets, which do you think Lego would choose? Each SW set which will make 5x what a LotR set will make so why choose that over a LotR set just to satisfy a small handful of fans? No one in their right mind would.

With all that said, the problem I have is it's like Lego almost TRIED to make their Middle-Earth themes fail. Now obviously that isn't true, but there are so many questionable choices they made. Mouth of Sauron over Witch King? Pirate Ship Ambush over something Gondor? Council of Elrond over pretty much ANY action scene from the films? No Eowyn or Gondor Faction? It's like for the first LotR/Hobbit wave Lego gave it their all and after that they kind of have just been skating by. I have no idea why this is but understand their are tons of forces at work. Maybe these sets tested really well with their test groups or maybe the first waves didn't sell as well as Lego thought so they focused more on other project? Maybe Lego was going to release 3 LotR waves but had to cancel plans due to the Hobbit movies being split into 3, or due to poor wave 2 LotR sales? Maybe it's not Lego's fault at all and it is all WB and PJ's doing (this wouldn't be unthinkable considering the huge lack of Hobbit merchandise and issues other companies seem to be having with Hobbit stuffl...)?

Regardless of what has happened, I think Lego COULD get by with just one more LotR set. The only new molds it would need are the Witch King's crown and a Gondor Soldier helmet. It doesn't even need a Fel Beast, give us a chunk of white wall, the Witch King (with crown AND black hood to be used as Nazgul as well), Eowyn (with new print but all re-used pieces), 2 Mordor Orcs (preferably with a new print and hair/ears) and 2 Gondor Soldiers (new prints). There you go, pretty much all the big stuff people want done in one small $30 army builder with relatively few new molds (though lots of new prints). Make it a special D2C? If Lego did this I think they would pretty much satisfy all LotR fans and keep us on board for future Lego projects. As it stands a lot of us just have a bad taste in our mouths. I honestly don't think I will be buying any more Lego after the LotR/Hobbit lines end if we don't get some Gondor stuff. Leaving such a huge faction unrepresented makes me question future Lego decisions, especially with the lackluster wave 2 that coulda been so much more. I mighta been interested in future Caslte sets had Lego done a better job with the LotR and Hobbit themes...

[Faefrost]

I totally understand what you are saying, and quite honestly the LotR and Hobbit themes don't seem to be selling incredibly well. They might be doing ok and turning a profit, but they are not on the same level as Lego's cash cows like Star Wars, City, Ninjago, Friends, etc. If you look at Lego Ideas there isn't a single LotR or Hobbit project with over 5,000 votes, let alone anywhere close to 10,000. The last Hobbit wave was barely stocked in stores when it was first released compared to The Lego Movie which had half an aisle, end caps, etc. full of product. So with all of this in mind, given the choice between more Star Wars sets with their budget or more LotR sets, which do you think Lego would choose? Each SW set which will make 5x what a LotR set will make so why choose that over a LotR set just to satisfy a small handful of fans? No one in their right mind would.

With all that said, the problem I have is it's like Lego almost TRIED to make their Middle-Earth themes fail. Now obviously that isn't true, but there are so many questionable choices they made. Mouth of Sauron over Witch King? Pirate Ship Ambush over something Gondor? Council of Elrond over pretty much ANY action scene from the films? No Eowyn or Gondor Faction? It's like for the first LotR/Hobbit wave Lego gave it their all and after that they kind of have just been skating by. I have no idea why this is but understand their are tons of forces at work. Maybe these sets tested really well with their test groups or maybe the first waves didn't sell as well as Lego thought so they focused more on other project? Maybe Lego was going to release 3 LotR waves but had to cancel plans due to the Hobbit movies being split into 3, or due to poor wave 2 LotR sales? Maybe it's not Lego's fault at all and it is all WB and PJ's doing (this wouldn't be unthinkable considering the huge lack of Hobbit merchandise and issues other companies seem to be having with Hobbit stuffl...)?

Regardless of what has happened, I think Lego COULD get by with just one more LotR set. The only new molds it would need are the Witch King's crown and a Gondor Soldier helmet. It doesn't even need a Fel Beast, give us a chunk of white wall, the Witch King (with crown AND black hood to be used as Nazgul as well), Eowyn (with new print but all re-used pieces), 2 Mordor Orcs (preferably with a new print and hair/ears) and 2 Gondor Soldiers (new prints). There you go, pretty much all the big stuff people want done in one small $30 army builder with relatively few new molds (though lots of new prints). Make it a special D2C? If Lego did this I think they would pretty much satisfy all LotR fans and keep us on board for future Lego projects. As it stands a lot of us just have a bad taste in our mouths. I honestly don't think I will be buying any more Lego after the LotR/Hobbit lines end if we don't get some Gondor stuff. Leaving such a huge faction unrepresented makes me question future Lego decisions, especially with the lackluster wave 2 that coulda been so much more. I mighta been interested in future Caslte sets had Lego done a better job with the LotR and Hobbit themes...

I think our only hope of a close out set would be a nice D2C set. Which I believe Lego would honestly do in a heartbeat if they did not have license considerations. One last finishing set will not be worth extending or continuing a license for. We may yet get lucky, but I assume the clock and calendar work against this more and more every day.

As for some of the decisions. Never forget that there are often things going on that we are not privy to. And the decision is often not entirely Lego's. Let's use the Pirate Ship as an example. On paper it makes perfect sense in numerous ways. It means the second wave top end retail set was something other than another big wall. It was a vehicle. There basic options for that set would have been another good guy Castle, Minas Tirith, which would have felt just like Helm's Deep and they would be hesitant to do with Helms Deep still in the retail channel. Something like the Oliphant, which was probably superseded as Chima had one similar in the pipeline. An evil Castle or Wizards Tower, which was already in the pipeline with Orthanc. Or finally the ship, which had a ton of positives. It was different, yet it was something Lego had done before, both in Pirates and in Castle to good results. It was not just a LotR set but effectively a Lego crossover set that could bring other theme fans to LotR. And finally it was a set that the licensor would love and pretty much insist on. Don't forget the boat represents Peter Jackson's scene, and he appears as a minifig in the set. Why make it? Because the IP holder wants it.

And the same sort of calculations run through many of the other decisions. We know they created sketch models of Lothlorien and the Balrog. Why not make them? Who knows? Play tested poorly? Something in the design was problematic? Lothlorien too much like Endor? Some other set or theme having a greater need of key parts at that production moment? I'm betting the Witch King ultimately comes down to the Fel Beast, and what Smaug would look like. They did not want to dance close to Smaug in terms of size and appearance. There are a million ways that these things all interrelate and can effect the decision making process that we cannot begin to imagine.

And never forget we got a council of Elrond set because we demanded it. We wanted Elrond. We wanted Rivendell. Collectively we do not always know what is in our best interests.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Faefrost

[SMC]

I do wonder if lego care about how the line is viewed, it wound not take a lot for us to be happy, we don't really know what lego has for us next year and there are gaps to fill so who knows

[Blakstone]

Fortunately LotR does not really compete with Star Wars, City or Friends. It does compete with Castle 2013 but that was missing this year. That might be a good sign that LEGO does not want LotR / Hobbit and Castle to undercut each other.

I think that LEGO examines the different age demographics and appeal. So if they wanted to bring in a line that targeted a slightly older (or MUCH older) demographic, then LotR would be the line to remove.

The LEGO Movie had taken over so much of the shelf space in my local stores though and it will get a third wave in January.