LEGO LotR - general discussion

[MAB]

. If we don't get a third Lotr film though we probably never will see Gondor Soldiers, Eowyn, or the Witch King in official Lego form.

??? There have already been three LOTR films. And there won't be a fourth, since the story is done.

[Robert_88]

I'm sure he meant "wave".

[Lynx]

??? There have already been three LOTR films. And there won't be a fourth, since the story is done.

I'm sure he meant third Lord of the Rings wave, i.e. a series of LEGO products depicting Lord of the Rings scenes released at the same time and temporarily separated from other products in the same theme (i.e. the first and second wave).

[d-delay]

I hear what you're saying Deathleech, and overall you are right, most of the themes I mentioned are ongoing. I was more making the general point that there is zero incentive to "finish" a line from a business point of view. Sadly I would sum up the situation like this: if there is business reason enough to produce another wave, there is also business reason enough not to complete the array of characters/scenes possible, because it would limit the future. Hopefully we get another wave, although Faefrost has me convinced that it ain't gonna happen. I prefer to use my twisted logic to believe that the incompleteness of the theme may offer more hope that perhaps there will be scope for future production when a Middle Earth kids carton is announced in a few years time (that would seriously be our best hope!!) The only other thing that gives me hope is the pervasive strength of the castle theme in general over time. That may encourage Lego to persist at least for one more wave IF they have the designs in the bag. If not, it'll be back to generic castle, and using my imagination ;)

[MAB]

I'm sure he meant third Lord of the Rings wave, i.e. a series of LEGO products depicting Lord of the Rings scenes released at the same time and temporarily separated from other products in the same theme (i.e. the first and second wave).

I see. I also doubt we will see anything new from LOTR if we don't get any new sets.

[Dorayaki]

Because it is a licensed line. And licenses are finite and based on a start date and a finish date. There are a few other IP Properties like this. Disney Princesses and Transformers could probably pull it off. Tolkien sadly cannot.

Unfortunately, even though there could still be some other set ideas based on Tolkien works, obviously the current LEGO LotR license is based on the film series of six. I think most AFOLs are reasonable enough and wouldn't expect more sets from TLC after the film series end for some time. The only thing we can expect is that TLC can release more sets based on previous LotR films until the final wave.

On the other hand, despite being obviously successful, Disney's product range is still pretty limited compared with SW and SH. This could be owing to Disney's license restriction, or their natural marketing limits.

[Mahtion]

I think other than Silmarillion or Children of Hurin, a movie could be made about the Second Age because Tolkien never fleshed out the ideas and I believe the rights exist for Eregion, Annatar, Gil-Galad, etc. Looking at Shadow of Mordor with Celebrimbor and backstory for rings of power there is certainly a lot PJ or another filmmaker could work with or add their own ideas to complete the narrative. At the very least we wouldn't have to wait for new rights and the setting is mostly familiar having been hinted at in LOTR films. Eregion stood for almost 700 years, there is plenty of story there and we could see Elrond, Galadriel and some other actors return. It's either that or some kind of tie in like a cartoon show. Perhaps the license could be like POTC where when a movie does come along more Lego sets will be made? Unless POTC license needed to be renewed for the new film.

[Blakstone]

I think the market is moving on from Tolkien. WB just signed for a Dragonriders of Pern movie and Game of Thrones is a big thing now. I really don't see the market being interested in another writer to create new Second Age stories.

One of the reasons for licenses needed a media tie in is to piggy back off the marketing for the film. I don't see a major ad campaign for DVD / Bluray releases any more. I don't see that as supporting a new wave.

I still hope that we could get a third and final wave. But talk about a cartoon series or a new trilogy seems silly to me. Lord of the Rings might get remade in 20 - 30 years, but I don't plan on waiting for that.

[SMC]

I think the market is moving on from Tolkien. WB just signed for a Dragonriders of Pern movie and Game of Thrones is a big thing now. I really don't see the market being interested in another writer to create new Second Age stories.

One of the reasons for licenses needed a media tie in is to piggy back off the marketing for the film. I don't see a major ad campaign for DVD / Bluray releases any more. I don't see that as supporting a new wave.

I still hope that we could get a third and final wave. But talk about a cartoon series or a new trilogy seems silly to me. Lord of the Rings might get remade in 20 - 30 years, but I don't plan on waiting for that.

I think you right that we wont see another Tolkien film for a long time but I do think there will be a big push when the dvd comes out and there will be a complete box set, ultimate collectors box set, ultimate collectors box set with a extra disk, you get the idea, think it would be a good time for a final wave and its not like lego own castle line looks that exciting next to SH and SW

[Faefrost]

Ya, I get that Faefrost. My point wasn't Lego needs to plan out an entire wave and cover everything before the license ends. I am sure no matter what the license is and no matter how long Lego has it, they will miss some things.

My point was that unlike most of the licenses d-delay listed (PotC, Star Wars, Super Heroes), LotR and Hobbit don't really have anything else that can carry the line once the third and final Hobbit movie is out. The chances of Lego releasing a LotR set in 5 years are slim to none because there probably won't be any more Middle-Earth themed films for a looooong time (if ever). Once the Middle-Earth license ends for Lego they won't pick it up again. PotC on the other hand comes out with a new movie every few years. Star Wars is an on going license with all the tv shows, movies, etc. that come out. With these licenses there is potential for Lego to always make sets based on scenes not yet covered. If we don't get a third Lotr film though we probably never will see Gondor Soldiers, Eowyn, or the Witch King in official Lego form.

And that's likely. We are also missing a number of major settings and characters from Indiana Jones and Harry Potter. Not to mention vast swathes from PotC. (We have hope that PotC will return, but no guarantees. and if it does will it see a Flying Dutchman? or the missing crew?) The point is Lego will try and give us as much as they can, while they can. But each wave is a decision point. They typically will not give us another wave just to "finish all the scenes" unless there is some other underlying business reason to do so. And believe it or not "a bunch of AFOL's really really want it, and can't believe we would not do it!" is not as strong of a business case as you might think.

^ Well how do we know that the theme is not popular with kids? Aren't we assuming too much that because we AFOLs like it, only adults càn like it?

Is there any evidence that kids don't like the Hobbit and LOTR?

Mostly observational. Just the kids seem to have no interest in Hobbit or LotR on the shelves when it sits next to Star Wars, Chima Ninjago, TMNT or Superheroes. There are a few exceptions. Bag End seems to delight kids. But many of the other sets are just Ugly Orcs in front of grey walls. That's not really doing it for the smaller kids. 10-11+ yeah, but I can't get past the way it seems LotR loses the whole 6-10 block for the most part. The movies are kind of scary for that age range. They aren't yet reading to that level. Some may like it, but it isn't the kid bait that some other themes are. And you can start to see the stores shelving practices reflecting this. You can also tell that the big back stores have not really been going back and restocking LotR and barely doing so with Hobbit.

Next year fall/winter comes Hobbit+LOTR release of DVDs that should be some media coverage....

DVD release didn't exactly keep Harry Potter on the shelves. And that was one of their top lines for a number of years. And a rare retail male/female crossover line. And yet right after the last (delayed because of an extra) movie it ended and was replaced with LotR. Right now the one slim hope that I have been hanging onto is that LotR fills a certain "Literaray Fantasy" niche that they have done well with. And that they haven't had a replacement for waiting in the wings. Remember for Lego Harry Potter and LotR/Hobbit are all a pretty much continuous string of deals with Warner Brothers. Now if Warner Brothers suddenly announced a new "close enough" fantasy property to sort of slide in and fill the role you could almost guarantee a third hop to all of this. But what are the chances of that happening?

http://www.escapistm...Movie-Franchise

:look:

Edited July 31, 2014 by Faefrost

[SMC]

Harry Potter was because the licence ended, be good to know when the LOTR licence runs too

[bachamn]

Lord of the Rings might get remade in 20 - 30 years

I'm aware that the following statement will very likely date itself in the future, but unless filmmakers end up really pushing the immersion/3D thing to the point of filming for VR devices (like Occulus Rift) and the experience of going to the movies as we know it changes completely, I don't see what the point would be in remaking something that was already a very convincing adaptation with respect to the production (visual effects, acting, music, etc.). LotR was made in the current-era of films, in high definition, so I have a hard time conceptualizing what technological advances we could see that would justify a remake.

[MKJoshA]

More Orc variety is going to be in the Minas Tirith set. ;-)

Ah, I love your optimism!

Well, not all of us demanded a Council of Elrond set... Almost every poster who gives their "dream wave" has Eowyn vs the Witch King and/or Minas Tirith/Osgiliath at the very top of their list. Why were these not made over Council of Elrond?...

It's true. Had they made either or both of these sets over Council, I can see us all lamenting not getting Council, but we certainly wouldn't be as upset as we are about not getting Gondor or Fell Beast.

I feel like Children of Hurin would make a better film adaptation than Silmarillion which would be too involved for most audiences and probably require it's own trilogy (at least).

That is the sadest Tolkien story ever. Ever. I've been reading the History of Middle Earth (all 12 volumes) and have basically read that story a dozen times in the past year. So sad! And also not likely to ever be made into a movie.

I think other than Silmarillion or Children of Hurin, a movie could be made about the Second Age because Tolkien never fleshed out the ideas and I believe the rights exist for Eregion, Annatar, Gil-Galad, etc. Looking at Shadow of Mordor with Celebrimbor and backstory for rings of power there is certainly a lot PJ or another filmmaker could work with or add their own ideas to complete the narrative. At the very least we wouldn't have to wait for new rights and the setting is mostly familiar having been hinted at in LOTR films. Eregion stood for almost 700 years, there is plenty of story there and we could see Elrond, Galadriel and some other actors return. It's either that or some kind of tie in like a cartoon show. Perhaps the license could be like POTC where when a movie does come along more Lego sets will be made? Unless POTC license needed to be renewed for the new film.

Look up the book "Unfinished Tales" by Christopher Tolkien. It has everything Tolkien started regarding the 2nd age. And there is actually quite a bit. I wish they would turn it into a tv series like Game of Thrones, but I know it will never happen. And because that will never happen neither will the Lego sets sadly.

[Mahtion]

Look up the book "Unfinished Tales" by Christopher Tolkien. It has everything Tolkien started regarding the 2nd age. And there is actually quite a bit. I wish they would turn it into a tv series like Game of Thrones, but I know it will never happen. And because that will never happen neither will the Lego sets sadly.

I've read Unfinished Tales and HoME, much of the 2nd Age is about the Fall of Numenor and fragments of the Elves vs Sauron. I think it's a shame that Tolkien never had a chance to determine when Galadriel left Eregion or how it was founded. To me this period of time is the least fleshed out in the Middle Earth mythos. Considering how much Tolkien changed characters and their lineages, who knows what the end result would have been. Christopher had to extrapolate and make inferences into the story segments to even publish the Silmarillion. I just feel that if Shadow of Mordor is successful maybe we will see more stories of the Second Age because it is very much like the world we see in the Third Age. Whereas the First Age of the Sun and the Years of the Trees are much more dramatic. More importantly many are waiting for the Silmarillion adapation but no one has the rights. A story set in the Second Age would be great to green light because it has the movie rights and the creative freedom for daring screenwriters and directors. And with a new license would come more lego of the Middle Earth variety.

[Faefrost]

The only reason we have The Hobbit and LotR movies is because JRR sold them himself back in the 60's. The rest of the family isn't about to do that while Chris is still alive.

[Mr. Cube]

There is my dream wave:

Minas Tirith Battle (similar to Uruk-hai Army)

- 2x Gondor soldiers + 2x Mordor orcs (new print) + 1x Gothmog + 1x warg

- the gate of Minas Tirith

- Grond (battering ram)

The Bridge of Khazad-Dum (similar to Shelob Attacks, but with a lil bit more pieces)

- 1x Gandalf + 2x Moria Orc (new helmet + amor)

- brick-built Balrog

- the bridge

Mirror of Galadriel

- 1x Frodo + 1x Galadriel (with alternative „demonic“ faceprint)

- the mirror with blue light brick

- some statue, small tree etc.

Witch King Encounter

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Theoden + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry

- 1x molded fellbeast + 1x horse

- small landscape

REDUCED VERSION

Witch King Encounter 2

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry

- 1x molded fellbeast

- small landscape

EXPANDED VERSION

Battle of the Pelennor Fields

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Theoden + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry + 1 Rohan Soldier + 1 Gondor Soldier + 1 Mordor Orc (new print)

- 1x molded fellbeast + 1x horse

- small landscape + small catapult

Ithilien Ambush

- 2x Rangers of Ithilien + 1x Faramir + 2x Haradrim

- 1x Oliphaunt (similar to LEGO Chima Mammoth)

- some trees etc.

UCS Minas Tirith

- something like this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70809, this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/58745 or this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/36275

Polybags

- 2nd age Sauron polybag

- Old Bilgo polybag

Edited August 1, 2014 by Mr. Cube

[Trunkbass]

There is my dream wave:

Minas Tirith Battle (similar to Uruk-hai Army)

- 2x Gondor soldiers + 2x Mordor orcs (new print) + 1x Gothmog + 1x warg

- the gate of Minas Tirith

- Grond (battering ram)

The Bridge of Khazad-Dum (similar to Shelob Attacks, but with a lil bit more pieces)

- 1x Gandalf + 2x Moria Orc (new helmet + amor)

- brick-builded Balrog

- the bridge

Mirror of Galadriel

- 1x Frodo + 1x Galadriel (with alternative „demonic“ faceprint)

- the mirror with blue light brick

- some statue, small tree etc.

Witch King Encounter

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Theoden + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry

- 1x molded fellbeast + 1x horse

- small landscape

REDUCED VERSION

Witch King Encounter 2

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry

- 1x molded fellbeast

- small landscape

EXPANDED VERSION

Battle of the Pelennor Fields

- 1x Eowyn + 1x Theoden + 1x Witch King + 1x Merry + 1 Rohan Soldier + 1 Gondor Soldier + 1 Mordor Orc (new print)

- 1x molded fellbeast + 1x horse

- small landscape + small katapult

Ithilien Ambush

- 2x Rangers of Ithilien + 1x Faramir + 2x Haradrim

- 1x Oliphaunt (similar to LEGO Chima Mammoth)

- some trees etc.

UCS Minas Tirith

- something like this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70809, this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/58745 or this https://ideas.lego.com/projects/36275

Polybags

- 2nd age Sauron polybag

- Old Bilgo polybag

This!

I especially like the blue light brick. Armored moria goblins and new orc prints are almost as needed as Gondor and the Witch-King in my opinion.

[LegoThomas]

Mr. Cube i totally agree.

[Venkefedo]

This!

I especially like the blue light brick. Armored moria goblins and new orc prints are almost as needed as Gondor and the Witch-King in my opinion.

Those spiky Moria orc helms would be so useful to flesh out orc armies of any sort... It'd be a great element to introduce (and could easily see a few uses in Mr Cube's assortment of orcs to offset the cost of creation)

The blue light brick's also a nice touch. That Galadriel set as a whole sounds surprisingly nice for the smallest set of the wave!

Terrific list, Mr Cube! Practically perfect in every way.

[atreyu2112]

I could live with that... And Treebeard (-:

[MKJoshA]

I had forgotten that we haven't received a Old Bilbo yet. Maybe they'll squeaze him in with the Hobbit sets.

[Robert_88]

I hope so but I don't know where. I think he should have been in the Council of Elrond set.

[Blakstone]

I think Old Bilbo should have been a PreOder bonus (LotR or Hobbit game) or included in the Unexpected Journey Bluray. Although a Shop@Home promotion would work. I just don't see kids getting excited by getting him.

[bachamn]

I had forgotten that we haven't received a Old Bilbo yet. Maybe they'll squeaze him in with the Hobbit sets.

me too, don't know how I overlooked that. I also agree that it would make a good preorder bonus but since the remainder of the Hobbit series LEGO game is being released as DLC, unsure if that would be possible? Has LEGO ever released a minifigure promo for a non-LEGO game?

if they don't make it, does anyone know of a white/gray hair piece that could be popped onto another Bilbo figure to make a simple custom?

[deskp]

5 Bilbo figures isn't enough? priorities