LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Bugbot2008]

The problem with unpinning it is that it will still rise to the top with useless posts that push other relevant topics or MOCs down. Look how long the balrog vs treebeard debate lasted. How many of those posts would have bumped other historical theme posts down, if this thread wasn't pinned?

An I see, point taken. Well I guess close it up since we are just treading water now, but maybe create a new topic perhaps called "LotR IDEAS projects discussion" therefore maintaining a relevant/focused forum for remaining general topic discussion, keeping the front page cleaner for MoC's as you say.

Or perhaps just retitle the hobbit thread to "middle earth sets discussion", keeping it all in one place?

I'm just worrying we are going to end up with lots of new topics popping up in the future of people asking general questions, especially new members joining etc, because there is no specific "general" forum to pop into :/

Anyway admins do as you wish :)

Edited December 11, 2014 by Bugbot2008

[SMC]

Is anyone else fed up with people coming to this topic just to tell us there is no point in this topic and it should be closed. Why should any topic be closed there are thousands of topics that are not closed and when people are not interested anymore the topic just drops down and disappears. As many people have said unpin or change the name to general LOTR talk as there might not be any more sets.

Edited December 12, 2014 by SMC

[sahidko]

Is anyone else fed up with people come to this topic just to tell us there is no point in this topic and it should be closed. Why should any topic be closed there are thousands or topics that are not closed and when people are not interested anymore the topic just drops down and disappears. As many people have said unpin or change the name to general LOTR talk as there might not be any more sets.

Completely agree, without people coming and saying this thread is dead or useless it would (if unpinned) follow the life cycle of any other thread...

[ZCerberus]

Is anyone else fed up with people coming to this topic just to tell us there is no point in this topic and it should be closed. Why should any topic be closed there are thousands of topics that are not closed and when people are not interested anymore the topic just drops down and disappears. As many people have said unpin or change the name to general LOTR talk as there might not be any more sets.

When I moderator says it, it means something else. It means try to stay on topic a bit more or the thread is in desperate shape and WILL be closed. I wanted some opinions on what the thread has become before deciding what to do with it. I appreciate the input from all those with an opinion on what to do with it.

It seems all agree one 2 things"

1. This thread often tends to get away from discussing what is in the title and

2. perhaps it needs a new name to encompass all that is in it.

I, however, have no desire to make a "general" LotR topic as that will have so much random stuff in it, I feel no one will ever want to read it as it will be constantly flame wars, trolling, and random questions and thoughts.

I also understand people are still passionate about LotR LEGO, so I want to accommodate that as well. We'll see how this goes, but for now, I am accepting "we should close the thread" and "why do you want to close my favorite thread" type comments.

[Ardelon]

I am among those that are pretty riled up when reading that "this thread should be locked because *I* dont find it worthwile and screw those with another opinion". Nobody is forced to read this thread.

Of course, another matter is whether the thread is serving its purpose to the satisfaction of the staff. To the extent that I can contribute to the debate, I would agree with unpinning the thread and letting members vote with their feet. Im pretty sure at least the hardcore tolkienistas would read it, just as is the situation now, and I dont think future members should be deprived of posting questions, comments, thoughts on the sets, wishlists and the like.

What does bother me a bit is all the talk that should go in the Tolkien thread in the Culture and Media forum, but its not like Im inconvenienced by it.

[SirBlake]

Unpin, let nature take its course. I think it'd be a shame if it were locked.

[Gondorfan]

Our only hope for a future LOTR set is the current Lego ideas program.

[MAB]

I, however, have no desire to make a "general" LotR topic as that will have so much random stuff in it, I feel no one will ever want to read it as it will be constantly flame wars, trolling, and random questions and thoughts.

And don't forget quotes, and misquotes.

Locking it is just a silly idea. IT SHALL NOT PASS. :-)

Unpin it and leave it floating if people want it, or move it to Licensed and let them deal with it!

[Bycougars]

Here is the offical Lego comment just posted on the Osgiliath project https://ideas.lego.com/projects/84994 on Lego Ideas:

Welcome to the 1k Club! At this milestone, we’ve done a preliminary check with licensing regarding your project and see no known conflicts or issues. You have been green lighted to keep growing supporters; we will do a more detailed check if you reach 10,000 supporters and qualify for the LEGO Review. Keep up the good work!

For those worried about LOTR licensing issues on Ideas projects it doesn't appear to be a problem.

[Darth Punk]

Here is the offical Lego comment just posted on the Osgiliath project https://ideas.lego.com/projects/84994 on Lego Ideas:

Welcome to the 1k Club! At this milestone, we’ve done a preliminary check with licensing regarding your project and see no known conflicts or issues. You have been green lighted to keep growing supporters; we will do a more detailed check if you reach 10,000 supporters and qualify for the LEGO Review. Keep up the good work!

For those worried about LOTR licensing issues on Ideas projects it doesn't appear to be a problem.

That just means no one else has rights to the license after theirs expires. It says nothing about when TLG's license will expire and whether further licenses will be granted to anyone.

[Robert_88]

At least this is about Lego LotR! ;)

[Bycougars]

That just means no one else has rights to the license after theirs expires. It says nothing about when TLG's license will expire and whether further licenses will be granted to anyone.

First off when does Lego's license expire with LOTR? I have never seen anything official saying when it expires. Second, I wasn't saying that Lego is extending their contract or that they were making the set. I was just pointing out that according to Lego their are currently no conflicts or issues with making this product.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Bycougars

[Balbo]

It's definitely nice hearing that there aren't problems uploading LotR Ideas sets (at the moment)

Edited December 16, 2014 by Balbo

[Darth Punk]

First off when does Lego's license expire with LOTR? I have never seen anything official saying when it expires. Second, I wasn't saying that Lego is extending their contract or that they were making the set. I was just pointing out that according to Lego their are currently no conflicts or issues with making this product.

I am aware what you wrote, but this statement does nothing to answer questions people have about licensing LoTR. The major one being when TLG's license ends.

If there was a license conflict TLG would have most likely already removed all LoTR projects. Much like Doctor Who which was allowed to be posted on ideas once a preexisting license conflict was resolved. So this statement doesn't really say anything new.

Sorry to best a dead horse as many here have filled many a page about this very subject.

I think a healthy conservation in this topic would be greatly served by a name change and unpinning.

[Blakstone]

IDEAS could have rejected the project early on but opted not to. That is a good sign but it does not mean that there are not any licensing issues that hamper the changes of the project. I am glad for the good sign though. Thanks for the quote Bycougars.

I think we are all rooting for you.

[Faefrost]

First off when does Lego's license expire with LOTR? I have never seen anything official saying when it expires. Second, I wasn't saying that Lego is extending their contract or that they were making the set. I was just pointing out that according to Lego their are currently no conflicts or issues with making this product.

We virtually never know the length or breadth of a license. I think the only major exceptions have been the Harry Potter license, which we knew the hard end date because the unexpected 8th film left product on the shelves up to the actual date, and Sponge Bob which we learned of by MegaBloks picking it up.

But we can assume certain things. It is likely that the license came into effect at the beginning of 2011, with product released 8-12 months following. Based on that, and the expected and final release cycle of the movies chances are the hard end date of the license is late 2015. That would be a 5 year license, which is pretty typical for TLG dipping into a multi film property. And if we are talking about licenses lets not ignore the elephant in the room, CURRENT MOVIES. Here is the simple fact, a license which has a current movie in theaters will do an order of magnitude more sales for Lego than a property that is no longer producing new media. (This is true across the boards and even applies to Star Wars. It's just Star Wars without a movie is about equal to everything else with. Star Wars with a movie is consumer insanity. ) So for most licenses once the movies stop the sales drop off is huge enough to make it not worth extending the license. This was true for Harry Potter, Indiana Jones, Batman (round 1) Spiderman (round 1) and PotC. And yes it applies to the Middle Earth properties.

Add to this that the license does not simply encompass producing new sets. It also encompasses how long the manufacturer can sell those sets. So a manufacturer like TLG will not produce any new sets once the license time drops to the point where it equals the typical retail shelf life of a product wave. (most often one year for retail sets two years for D2C exclusive sets.). Remember they have to leave time to sell what they make. Which brings us back to this likely schedule. early to mid 2011 license begins. end 2011, beginning 2012 initial product hits shelves. End 2014, beginning 2015 final products hit shelves. End 2015, license ends remaining product leaves shelves.

Now this is pure speculation on my part, based on some fairly common practices and what we know of Lego's production schedules. But I would call it a well educated guess. Might the license be something different? Sure, who knows what was negotiated? But that seems the best guess based on how the movies bounced around. (and yes for these purposes The Hobbit movies = LotR movies. One feeds into and supports the other.)

as far as Lego allowing the projects. The only time they pull a project is if it is of an "impossible license". Mainly one that is already under contract to a competitor for the foreseeable future, or ones in which their competitors outright own the IP in question. (Hence no Barbie, G I Joe or Transformers projects. Lego can never ever get those. Or at least cannot initiate that conversation.) LotR and The Hobbit do not fall into those categories. They are either an open license as far as Ideas is concerned or they are a Pre-Existing Lego license, which while not impossible for Ideas, is very very complicated.

[SheepEater]

Pre-Existing Lego license, which while not impossible for Ideas, is very very complicated.

Well, if they reject it on that ground, stating "We already have projects for this license that conflicts with this idea", ie they already planned to release gondor sets, then I'm fine with it as long as they release their damned planned sets already.

If they don't have any planned sets, then what would be the holdup? They have to get the set approved by WB either way.

[wesker]

Good to hear there aren't any licensing issues preventing LOTR sets being made through Ideas. Now we just need to support what we can to the 10000 mark.

[atreyu2112]

Some news is better than no news. Good to hear there aren't any licensing issues. I really hope to get a wave of sets, or at least a lone Ideas set, selfishly to complete my own collection... But with all the negative comments and people coming into this topic *JUST* to say this shouldn't even BE a topic - I hope even MORE to get a wave of sets just to shut you up!

The topic should stay OPEN. Ideas set is up for review, others are on the rise with support. Lego themselves have taken notice. There is a lot of general public awareness for Middle Earth with the new movie coming out, Hobbit wave 3 *just* hit shelves very recently... I mean seriously, if SW Ep 7 was hitting next week and we were still in the same spot I could understand closing it down, but damn... you guys need to go get a drink and chill out. No harm, no foul.

[MAB]

Well, if they reject it on that ground, stating "We already have projects for this license that conflicts with this idea", ie they already planned to release gondor sets, then I'm fine with it as long as they release their damned planned sets already.

If they don't have any planned sets, then what would be the holdup? They have to get the set approved by WB either way.

I don't think they would ever say that. They will just say that a project fails if it is unlikely that they can get a license - as happened with Dr Who first time around on cuusoo. If they said that they already have projects planned that conflict with this idea, then they are giving out market sensitive information.

[Ql97]

Some news is better than no news. Good to hear there aren't any licensing issues. I really hope to get a wave of sets, or at least a lone Ideas set, selfishly to complete my own collection... But with all the negative comments and people coming into this topic *JUST* to say this shouldn't even BE a topic - I hope even MORE to get a wave of sets just to shut you up!

The topic should stay OPEN. Ideas set is up for review, others are on the rise with support. Lego themselves have taken notice. There is a lot of general public awareness for Middle Earth with the new movie coming out, Hobbit wave 3 *just* hit shelves very recently... I mean seriously, if SW Ep 7 was hitting next week and we were still in the same spot I could understand closing it down, but damn... you guys need to go get a drink and chill out. No harm, no foul.

Good point. I vote to leave this thread open until Orthanc has been discontinued, and Lego decides to say 'no more lotr on Ideas.'

[A Hobbit Fellow]

I am quite happy about hearing about the conflict-free licensing for LotR. Not sure if I think more LotR/Hobbit is coming but if it does I'd be quite happy.

[deskp]

Good to hear there aren't any licensing issues preventing LOTR sets being made through Ideas. Now we just need to support what we can to the 10000 mark.

Well in my opinion it would be starange if another brick building company wanted to license so soon after lego had it. (especaily considering its a 12? year old license.

[BrickSev]

I read LOTR and The Hobbit themes will be discontinued in 2015. I mean not just sets going out of production but the entire theme discontinued. Did you hear something about that? Are those news reliable?

I have few "fantasy projects" that would really benefit from LOTR sets.

Thanks for any info

[SirBlake]

I read LOTR and The Hobbit themes will be discontinued in 2015. I mean not just sets going out of production but the entire theme discontinued.

Source?