LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Mamma Mia Bricks]

If they released some Army Battlepack like for Star Wars it would be great.

Definetely we need a

Rohan Battle pack with 3 soldiers and one knight.

Gondor Battle pack with 2 soldiers one ranger and one guard of the fountain

Isengard Battle pack with 2 Uruk with shield and sword, 1 with pike and one warg rider.

Lothlorien Battle pack with 2 Elven archers and 2 Swordsman.

Evil Men battle pack with 1 Haradrim, 1 pirate of Umbar and 2 Esterling

Plus the should release all the characters that werent made! Gamling, Faramir, Eowyn, Hama, Witch King, Denethor, Peppin and Merry *Gondor and Rohan version*

I could go on for hours.

They have all the models ready, based on the videogame.They just need to create them!

[Lyichir]

If they released some Army Battlepack like for Star Wars it would be great.

Definetely we need a

Rohan Battle pack with 3 soldiers and one knight.

Gondor Battle pack with 2 soldiers one ranger and one guard of the fountain

Isengard Battle pack with 2 Uruk with shield and sword, 1 with pike and one warg rider.

Lothlorien Battle pack with 2 Elven archers and 2 Swordsman.

Evil Men battle pack with 1 Haradrim, 1 pirate of Umbar and 2 Esterling

Plus the should release all the characters that werent made! Gamling, Faramir, Eowyn, Hama, Witch King, Denethor, Peppin and Merry *Gondor and Rohan version*

I could go on for hours.

They have all the models ready, based on the videogame.They just need to create them!

Worth pointing out that having models ready for a digital product like a video game is a far cry from actually having them engineered for production. Several of the video game models might well be too fragile or complex to produce as is and could need to be redesigned to make them production-ready.

Beyond that, I'm pretty sure that if the normal sets didn't sell well enough to justify continuing the theme, battle packs without main characters would do even worse. After all, not all generic soldiers in film are created equal—things like Stormtroopers from Star Wars are far, far more iconic for general audiences than most of the unnamed soldiers in Lord of the Rings. So a Star Wars battle pack would likely have much more sales potential than the same thing for Lord of the Rings.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Lyichir

[TheBear]

This thread just goes round and round in circles with the same discussion being had time and time again. It is around this time that someone will pop up and say that they couldn't do battle packs because they only had the "construction" license which requires a certain number of building parts per set.

[Blakstone]

Then someone would say that they could do battle backs if they had ample builds to go with them. They would point out that Star Wars does this with their battle packs and LotR also did this with the more substantial Uruk Hai Army build.

I wish LotR would have had more waves or even became evergreen. But it didn't and I still enjoy the sets and minifigs that we got. I don't think LotR was a failure though the Hobbit may have been.

But it has been gone for years and despite four minifigs being made available with Dimensions packs, that is not likely to change. I think we would have seen further LotR Dimension packs already if they were coming.

[HawkLord]

Is this the part where someone else chimes in "MOAR BALROG"? Cuz... we need more Balrog.

[RAKRONDEWL]

Worth pointing out that having models ready for a digital product like a video game is a far cry from actually having them engineered for production. Several of the video game models might well be too fragile or complex to produce as is and could need to be redesigned to make them production-ready.

Beyond that, I'm pretty sure that if the normal sets didn't sell well enough to justify continuing the theme, battle packs without main characters would do even worse. After all, not all generic soldiers in film are created equal—things like Stormtroopers from Star Wars are far, far more iconic for general audiences than most of the unnamed soldiers in Lord of the Rings. So a Star Wars battle pack would likely have much more sales potential than the same thing for Lord of the Rings.

I disagree that battle packs would have sold worse, in fact I believe they would have probably sold better. You see LOTR has battles that require big armies whereas SW has both armies and vehicles which makes armies less important. The fact that a LOTR battle pack would be more generic would only boost its sales, drawing in more fans of fantasy to the franchise. Gamers have been using minifigures for their games for years, and many would of loved to get their hands on armored Elven figures. (I am not a gamer myself, but my dad was and that's where I got most of my castle knights.) You can only remake a set with Stormtroopers so many times before people lose interest because lets face it, you can't really use them for anything else. On the other hand, LOTR generic soldiers can be reused for so many things outside the franchise, and this is why I think they would have sold better. Edited May 17, 2016 by RAKRONDEWL

[MAB]

If generic lotr soldiers can be used outside of lotr, then surely generic soldiers from outside lotr can be used for lotr. Everything I want that is missing is non generic - Gondor soldiers with correct markings, Witch King, Eowyn, Faramir. A reasonable Eowyn can be made from generic parts. Ronan soldiers are also quite easy to make from generic parts. Elves too. It is the insignia and realistic helmets of the Gondor soldiers that I would have liked. Plus the Witch King's head.

[Lyichir]

I disagree that battle packs would have sold worse, in fact I believe they would have probably sold better. You see LOTR has battles that require big armies whereas SW has both armies and vehicles which makes armies less important. The fact that a LOTR battle pack would be more generic would only boost its sales, drawing in more fans of fantasy to the franchise. Gamers have been using minifigures for their games for years, and many would of loved to get their hands on armored Elven figures. (I am not a gamer myself, but my dad was and that's where I got most of my castle knights.) You can only remake a set with Stormtroopers so many times before people lose interest because lets face it, you can't really use them for anything else. On the other hand, LOTR generic soldiers can be reused for so many things outside the franchise, and this is why I think they would have sold better.

I actually agree with your reasons why you think LotR packs would be better and more useful to a wider variety of people, but I disagree with the assumption that those qualities would result in better overall sales. You missed the key part of my argument—that "if the normal sets didn't sell well enough to justify continuing the theme, battle packs without main characters would do even worse." If not enough people bought sets with actual named elf/dwarf/human/orc characters, how many could realistically be expected to buy an elf/dwarf/human/orc battle pack? For general fantasy fans and gamers (the market you bring up as being able to find new uses for generic LoTR soldiers), there shouldn't be much of a difference between the appeal of a named character whom they could customize into someone new and an unnamed character whom they could do the same with. Clearly, regardless of the size of that market, it was not enough to sustain the theme beyond the sets we actually got.

The only reason I brought up Stormtroopers is that their iconic appearance gives them their own appeal beyond customization. It's true that a Stormtrooper fig can't be used to represent any sort of generic character very well, but on the flip side, you can't represent a Stormtrooper very well without a figure designed to resemble one. And as such, Star Wars fans who want additional troops (a sizable market considering the franchise's pop-culture dominance) can't go anywhere else for those sorts of figs. This topic alone should be evidence that the same doesn't necessarily apply to Lord of the Rings fans, who have been exceptionally resourceful when it comes to building up armies of extras to fill out their Middle-Earth displays using a mix of licensed and unlicensed figure parts.

[RAKRONDEWL]

If generic lotr soldiers can be used outside of lotr, then surely generic soldiers from outside lotr can be used for lotr. Everything I want that is missing is non generic - Gondor soldiers with correct markings, Witch King, Eowyn, Faramir. A reasonable Eowyn can be made from generic parts. Ronan soldiers are also quite easy to make from generic parts. Elves too. It is the insignia and realistic helmets of the Gondor soldiers that I would have liked. Plus the Witch King's head.

For most LOTR minifigures, new printing and molds would be required, so using generic soldiers from outside LOTR doesn't usually work. This is not true when turned around because for example castle doesn't follow a set story and the prints of LOTR minifigures can just be looked at as different heraldry.

The only one I would add to that list is the Lord of the rings himself, Sauron.

[RAKRONDEWL]

I actually agree with your reasons why you think LotR packs would be better and more useful to a wider variety of people, but I disagree with the assumption that those qualities would result in better overall sales. You missed the key part of my argument—that "if the normal sets didn't sell well enough to justify continuing the theme, battle packs without main characters would do even worse." If not enough people bought sets with actual named elf/dwarf/human/orc characters, how many could realistically be expected to buy an elf/dwarf/human/orc battle pack? For general fantasy fans and gamers (the market you bring up as being able to find new uses for generic LoTR soldiers), there shouldn't be much of a difference between the appeal of a named character whom they could customize into someone new and an unnamed character whom they could do the same with. Clearly, regardless of the size of that market, it was not enough to sustain the theme beyond the sets we actually got.

The only reason I brought up Stormtroopers is that their iconic appearance gives them their own appeal beyond customization. It's true that a Stormtrooper fig can't be used to represent any sort of generic character very well, but on the flip side, you can't represent a Stormtrooper very well without a figure designed to resemble one. And as such, Star Wars fans who want additional troops (a sizable market considering the franchise's pop-culture dominance) can't go anywhere else for those sorts of figs. This topic alone should be evidence that the same doesn't necessarily apply to Lord of the Rings fans, who have been exceptionally resourceful when it comes to building up armies of extras to fill out their Middle-Earth displays using a mix of licensed and unlicensed figure parts.

The market would be in that they would've been released in small inexpensive army builder sets. The fact you could buy detailed fantasy figures in a set that wasn't $30 but for $10-$15 set that included ~4 minifigures I think would have been a huge success.

Yes you are right, Stormtroopers are a little beyond customization, but only because of their helmets. But you also basically said that this topic proves their was a market for battle packs as LOTR fans have pulled all their resources to make their own in the sets absence.

Edited May 17, 2016 by RAKRONDEWL

[Ed9217]

A pelanor fields/Minas Tirith battle pack would have been nice to get. Maybe one with 3 orcs and 1 easterling. Then a gondor battle pack of sorts. I'm currently having to make up my gondor army using the heroic night figure with a different helmet and shield. The one figure I would want the most though is an easterling, as I'm also currently trying to make one using only official Lego parts. It can be done but its expensive. I suppose us fans of Lego LOTR will have to make do with using the old sets and making custom figures, however For me I suppose that is the challenge and fun of Lego.

[MAB]

For most LOTR minifigures, new printing and molds would be required, so using generic soldiers from outside LOTR doesn't usually work. This is not true when turned around because for example castle doesn't follow a set story and the prints of LOTR minifigures can just be looked at as different heraldry.

The only one I would add to that list is the Lord of the rings himself, Sauron.

If I saw generic minifigs carrying Gondor shields and wearing Gondor helmets, I'd expect they are meant to represent Gondor soldiers and thus related to LOTR. Just like if I saw generic space troopers wearing stormtrooper helmets, I'd assume it was a Star Wars MOC. Sometimes you cannot get over the licensing for a well known design.

[Alcarin]

Just want to point out, people would buy battle packs from LTR even if they skip LOTR line, generic medieval fans would love the figs, let it be elves, dwarves or soldiers of Gondor with their square shields no worries.... and it would be en mass :)

[HawkLord]

Remember though the profit margin on battlepacks is much smaller than that of large sets. The battlepacks are designed to entice people to buy the bigger stuff and as such, Lego isn't concerned with making a lot on them. Four minifigures with printing isn't cheap, especially when we only occasionally see four minifigures in other larger licensed sets that are in the $60 range.

Point being - battlepacks wouldn't have saved LOTR. And Lego didn't want to save LOTR in the first place. It was never meant to do anything more than what it did, despite what the fanbase thinks it could have done.

[Captain Pirate Man]

Well, my wife and I broke down and bought the mines of moria setjust so we can get a cave troll and Boromir.

So that means the ONLY LOTR and Hobbit minifigs we don't own are the king of the dead, yaznig, the rohan horse master (forget his name), and a umbar pirate.

I don't know about you all, but I have a feeling these minfigs are going to be some of the most sought after 10 years or so from now, making them some of the most valuable. Why? Because they are licensed figures, but they didn't produce a variety of different versions. Look at SW by contrast, how many Luke's or Vader's are out there? Not NEARLY as many of these guys. Just my thought.

[HawkLord]

Their secondary market value should hold pretty well. Same with Harry Potter. People will always be reading the books and becoming fans, so there should be a steady stream of interest. Plus, the designs are great.

[azog]

I dont know if it was just my opinion, but do you guys think that the hobbit sets were better designed than the lord of the rings sets? Of course helms deep and orthanc dont count

[Captain Pirate Man]

@Azog,

Well, since I own most of both themes, I feel like I can answer this question pretty accurately. Let me start by saying, it's not really fair to LOTR to diqualify Helm's Deep. If you take that out of the equation, then yes Hobbit wins. But Helm's Deep is really equivalent to The Lonely Mountain, both were the flagship sets. Which I understand diqualifying Orthanc, because that was really a collector's type set, so let's disqualify that one, but not Helm's Deep. Keep in mind I'm only rating the bigger sets, not the smaller ones.

The good LOTR sets are; Helm's Deep and Pirate Ambush (which I don't own).

The good Hobbit sets are ; bagend and both lake town sets. But you really need BOTH Lake town sets.

Advantage LOTR, but it's pretty close. My wife actually thinks Hobbit wins, so that tells you how close they are.

The average LOTR sets; weather top, orc forge (i don't own), and the black gate. But you really need to buy 2 black gates, that's what prevents it from being a great set.

The average Hobbit set; barrel escape set, Goblin King set.

Advantage LOTR

The not bad, but not fully realized LOTR sets; Mines of moria

The not bad but not fully realized Hobbit sets; Lonely mountain, Dol goldur (which I don't own)

Advantage Hobbit, by a lot.

Final verdict, LOTR wins but it's actually pretty close. If you take Helm's Deep away, Hobbit wins imo.

I am very bias towards sets that are buildings. Sets that take place INSIDE of something else, don't do much for me. Which this theme did A LOT of that.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Captain Pirate Man

[azog]

Yeah very true indeed. I can see your point for not excluding helms deep. But like you said there almost both equal

[Captain Pirate Man]

To further elaborate, the 3 BEST sets from the entire LOTR and Hobbit theme are

1. Tower Orthanc

2. Helm's Deep

3. Bag End

I don't think anyone could argue this tbh. These 3 are head and shoulders better than the rest.

[LegoThomas]

I only liked Bag End from hobbit.

Lotr wins every round.

And dont forget Uruk-Hai Army.

[Black Numenorean]

There was a true success in the sell of Lord of the ring set, i think. Look at brickset and we can see that the first wave reached the level of sell that a star wars wave.

But, this is the wave of hobbit which burried the lord of the ring theme.

I think if tlc should have sold an another wave of lord of the ring, it had had success.

[General Magma]

I think it would be a good idea to just keep talking about ideas for keeping LEGO The Lord of the Rings alive, outside of official releases, which we've most likely already seen the last of.

We've been declared independant, so let's figure things out on our own now.

[MAB]

To further elaborate, the 3 BEST sets from the entire LOTR and Hobbit theme are

1. Tower Orthanc

2. Helm's Deep

3. Bag End

I don't think anyone could argue this tbh. These 3 are head and shoulders better than the rest.

I'd flip Bag End and Helm's Deep, but otherwise agree.

Although I think some of the smaller sets are great (Wizard Battle for example). But they have to be small to meet the price point they were sold as. In terms of value for money, Wizard Battle is equal to Orthanc for me.

Just want to point out, people would buy battle packs from LTR even if they skip LOTR line, generic medieval fans would love the figs, let it be elves, dwarves or soldiers of Gondor with their square shields no worries.... and it would be en mass :)

But then generic medieval fans would also love generic medieval figure battle packs, whether elves, dwarves or un-licensed soldiers. And without the license-cost, the sets would be cheaper.

[Captain Pirate Man]

@MAB,

My wife thinks Bag End is better than Helm's Deep as well. So clearly those two are debatable, lol. But overall those are the 3 best sets.