LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Risgrynsgrot]

Lego devil might be good. Personaly, in these days? Who cares about "scary suffs"? Look at the video games, internet and so on..

Adults do. Even non-fanatic parents would start wondering why LEGO is making LEGO Devils (remember, in most people eyes LEGO is generally for kids between 4-10.

[SMC]

I think the theory that the Balrog looks too 'demonic' is weird. Anything depicting the evil characters in Middle-Earth technically looks demonic. Orthanc, a huge spiky black tower, doesn't really scream happiness when I look at it. Same can be said for The Black Gate, or even Dol Guldur.

Sure, the Balrog kinda transcends the level of demonic look due to the fact that it basically is a living demon in Middle-Earth, but it is so outrageously iconic and pivotal to the story that for LEGO to ignore it is folly. The people who likely would buy the set would already be familiar with LOTR and know what the Balrog is, and those who find it offensive just don't need to buy it.

I bring up the argument of Harry Potter. Harry Potter, as a story and franchise, has not been accepted by many religious groups. The witchcraft in the story is viewed as offensive to many, yet that didn't stop LEGO from making a ridiculously popular theme based on the films. The Balrog argument, in my eyes, is no different. While some may find certain aspects of LOTR as too offensive or suggestive, the majority of people are fine with it. For LEGO to suddenly make these efforts to avoid offending too many people just doesn't make sense. While they've been sensitive to their consumers around the world, they've never avoided producing as set due too religious symbols or beliefs. If they had been so sensitive in the past to all the beliefs of people in the world (religious or otherwise), then half the sets they've ever produced wouldn't have been put into production to begin with.

I 100% argee, I really dont understand the problem. It was one of the first sets I thought they would make as it is so iconic and kids and afol would love it. If Lego have a problem with it then they should with HP.

[tahoethewhite]

I agree that the "Balrog is a devil" argument is completely ridiculous, but there will always be a group of overprotective parents that will fight against anything remotely negative or risque.

[Rogue Angel]

You have many adults, granparents, etc buying LEGO for kids, with no idea what they are looking at, what LotR is -they see the Balrog, and they see a demon/devil and they don't buy LEGO any more. It's the unfamiliar people that you have to be most careful about as a retailer. They don't know what it is, but that doesn't mean they're not going to THINK they know what it is, and that will be their impression forevermore.

In regards to a third LotR wave, I think LEGO intended to release a 3rd wave with Gondor and RotK sets, but if the first two waves ardn't selling, they may have to cut their losses. At this point, all we know is that we haven't seen anything yet, unlike last year. I see this as a bad sign.

[Darth Lurtz]

Perhaps we're getting a mixed wave? Sets based on both the final Hobbit movie and the Lord of the Rings. Harry Potter had a similar final wave, we got a Knight Bus along with the Deathly Hallows sets.

[deskp]

I dont know how their lisence works, if they got hobbit/lotr as one unit or not.. But if there are no new lot sets next eyar, why did they not wait to release orthanc uintill then? Instead of perhaps be cannibalizing their sales of the normal lotr wave?

I do not think the lotr sets have sold well either. but if they released like 1 more set next year at a reasonable price, with the right charcthers people want, you would know that it would get enough sales.

[Fives]

I agree that the "Balrog is a devil" argument is completely ridiculous, but there will always be a group of overprotective parents that will fight against anything remotely negative or risque.

Then don't buy that set! Simple!

[TheLegoDr]

If they would release the sets that people want vs what they'think' will sell, it would be a completely different ballgame. Sure, kids are the market, but I think that is only true for LEGO as a whole. Certain themes have to have more kids buying it vs adults buying it. As in I think this theme is going to be directed at kids but will mainly have adults buying it. Therefore, everything should be pointing towards another wave for us, but I doubt it. They could do one small wave as a final send out and with the right figures, they will get great sales numbers. Harry Potter had 3 semi small sets as their final wave which did come out after Diagon Alley, so it could happen after Orthanc. All they really need are the right sets and people won't think they were short changed.

[Floundie]

I hope they don't end the Middle-Earth line so soon, it would be a huge waste and not really fair to LOTR fans considering the SW line will be running until at least 2022 (23 years as a whole, during which there have been gaps where there were no new movies or tv shows to promote). I just hope we get at least 4 years out of the line, and there's definitely enough source material in LOTR and the Hobbit to pull that off.

[Risgrynsgrot]

I hope they don't end the Middle-Earth line so soon, it would be a huge waste and not really fair to LOTR fans considering the SW line will be running until at least 2022 (23 years as a whole, during which there have been gaps where there were no new movies or tv shows to promote). I just hope we get at least 4 years out of the line, and there's definitely enough source material in LOTR and the Hobbit to pull that off.

LEGO doesn't care about fairness. They are a company, and thus care about sales. LEGO Star Wars and LEGO LOTR is at way different levels, Star Wars is probably the most succesful LEGO Theme there is, LOTR doesn't sell nearly as much. That's because Star Wars is much more targeted towards kids (more toys, clothing, cartoons) than LOTR. If LEGO LOTR is going bad I don't think it's that weird for them to remove it and just do The Hobbit for the last year of The Hobbit.

[Nobrux]

Is there any secure information regarding the LOTR sales? A lot of people are stating that this line is not selling well. How do we know that?

[SheepEater]

Apart from what our local store managers tell us, we don't.

[Darth Punk]

People have no idea how TLoR series is doing. It's all based on rumors and hearsay. Some stored have complained of slow sales and that has been turned in the whole line not doing well. The giant hole in that theory is the Internet. A line like TLoR geared more toward adults,is,going to see sales at a,higher rate than the traditional toy stores. The vast majority of my lego purchases happen,online and I know of many people who shop much the same way. So since lego does not release sale figures all talk of performance is pure guess work.

[Brick Fiend]

The vast majority of my lego purchases happen,online and I know of many people who shop much the same way. So since lego does not release sale figures all talk of performance is pure guess work.

This. Of all the LOR purchases I have made, perhaps one has been in store. Everything else has been online. It's all speculation at the moment imo. I for one will keep hoping to see something in terms of a third wave.

[Deathleech]

Well everything IS speculation, but so far nothing has pointed to the line doing really well. We didn't get a LotR advertisement in the second Hobbit wave, the last two waves have been rather small (4 sets each, though the last LotR did have Orthanc...), and most of what we hear from sales at local stores seems to be negative. In fact I don't think I have heard one good thing since An Unexpected Gathering was a top toy last Christmas, and the CEO picking out the LotR line specifically selling well when asked in general about license sales. If the line was doing better I think there would be more indication at this point.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the line IS doing poorly. Lego kind of missed their chance with the LotR license. They should of gotten the license over a decade ago when there was movie hype to help advertise the theme and help garner sales. Since then what has there been to promote LotR? The Hobbit film? Well that's great, but the first wave came out 6 months before the first Hobbit movie was even in theaters and there was only one Lego commercial to advertise it besides that (and it was rarely aired). So we have the first wave which had no publicity, then the second wave which had a few sets that were sub par and I can't imagine being appealing to kids. Black Gates and Council of Elrond over a Balrog/Mumakil, or even a cool Gondor/Mordor army builder with some shiny Gondor Soldiers and some Mordor Orcs with an armored cave troll? It would of sold circles around most of the wave 2 sets I would guess. Heck, I imagine ANY LotR army builder would be a great sale, I almost never saw Uruk-hai Army on sale compared to say Mines of Moria or the Goblin King Battle which are constantly 25% off or more. As for Pirate Ship Ambush, I know a lot of LotR AFOLs weren't thrilled about due to it's lack of screen time in the film. It seems like even Lego isn't exactly sure which direction to take this theme and so far they don't seem to be doing a really great job making appealing sets to everyone. It's like they try to hit niches with certain sets but fail to capture the other 2/3 of people who would be interested in buying the set. That and there is nothing to help advertise and sell the sets. It's really a shame.

[Alcarin]

Well it would certainly be a shame if LOTR ends before 3rd wave.....

I am really expecting third wave and hoping that both 2nd waves (hobbit + LOTR) were so poor (number of sets) because these were made quickly to fill the gap when Jackson revealed there are 3 movies instead of 2..... thats my hope atleast....

I would hope and expect for last wave next year to hit 6 sets each for a wave... with 1 exclusive among those 6.

[KristofBD]

Well everything IS speculation, but so far nothing has pointed to the line doing really well.

I agree regarding 'the line', but it seems the Orthanc was selling well: until recently, it was in the top 25 bestsellers in quite a few countries on lego.com + in the four Lego stores I visited they were flying of the shelves. Again that may be just anecdotal, but it is seems logical given that this is a theme that mainly appeals to AFOLs. My guess: one final D2C set about Gondor, that's it. It would be a shame, but hey, I'm happy with what we got: some brilliant minifies and a quite a few brilliant sets (e.g. An unexpected Gathering, Helm's Deep, Orthanc).

[narbilu]

hopefully we will see these three trolls in a set

maybe one brick build to make him look like he turned to stone

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/11050329073_ac4404a1b9_b.jpg

[Brick Fiend]

Well everything IS speculation, but so far nothing has pointed to the line doing really well.

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the line IS doing poorly.

It's really a shame.

Are we all reading a bit much into this though? Does a line have to do 'really' well for it to continue? What if sales are just ok. Acceptable even. We don't really know at which point TLG judge a theme/line to be financially profitable. Maybe there is some middle ground between poor sales and great sales which makes it worthwhile continuing.

I couldn't agree with you more about lost opportunities. The second wave was somewhat lacklustre (apart from the magnificent Orthanc). I am just hoping that they have something up their sleeve to finish with a stronger (even if reduced) third wave.

I also will find it a hell of a shame if this doesn't happen.

[SirBlake]

I wish they would just let us off the hook one way or the other. Either tell us LOTR is done so we can be supremely disappointed for a while and get over it, or tell us there will be another wave so we can stop worrying about it.

[Deathleech]

Are we all reading a bit much into this though? Does a line have to do 'really' well for it to continue? What if sales are just ok. Acceptable even. We don't really know at which point TLG judge a theme/line to be financially profitable. Maybe there is some middle ground between poor sales and great sales which makes it worthwhile continuing.

Well I am sure the LotR license was MUCH cheaper to get than say the Star Wars one. I imagine LotR was sort of a bonus when they made the Hobbit agreement. I just can't imagine Lego paying a premium for a license over 10 years old and not in hot demand. How well it has to sell to justify continuing is indeed the big question though. With other themes like Friends, Ninjago, and Star Wars selling like crazy I am sure they aren't going to sit around with a license not meeting at least a decent standard. I assume that standard would be fairly high too with the other themes selling so well. If LotR/Hobbit doesn't sell amazing they could easily move on to the next license theme and see how that does.

[Brick Fiend]

I wish they would just let us off the hook one way or the other. Either tell us LOTR is done so we can be supremely disappointed for a while and get over it, or tell us there will be another wave so we can stop worrying about it.

I'm feeling your pain. It's somewhat frustrating. The irony is that if they don't continue, they could see sales of the first wave especially, increase significantly as people rush to buy up as many orcs, remaining army builder type sets as they can for future Moc's.

If LotR/Hobbit doesn't sell amazing they could easily move on to the next license theme and see how that does.

I agree. When all is said and done, they are in the business to make money first and foremost. I'm hoping however, that they are seeing some value in a reduced 3rd LotR going some way towards keeping interest in the hobbit lines as well in the lead up to the last Hobbit film being released at the end of next year. I would have thought that at least some initial planning/design had already gone into a next wave given how long it takes to actually get a set to the store shelf. Maybe they are in the process of refining the sets based on sales figures/popularity of the first 2 releases. e.g. Less Council of Elrond and more army builder/iconic scene/playability for kids but still appealing to adults sets?

Oh for Gondor. I'm not giving up hope just yet.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Brick Fiend

[Something_Awesome]

This. Of all the LOR purchases I have made, perhaps one has been in store. Everything else has been online. It's all speculation at the moment imo. I for one will keep hoping to see something in terms of a third wave.

Yes but sales at brick and mortar stores is a must to suppliment online sales. There are plenty of other themes that sell well online as well and have the in-store sales to go a long with it. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the line is actually doing well.

The only thing that can, and would, save the line is a Rivendell. A large Rivendell playset can do for the line what the Parisian Restaurant did for its line. Many will dip into that line for the first time thanks to the Parisian Restaurant (myself included).

Edited November 29, 2013 by Something_Awesome

[Brick Fiend]

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the line is actually doing well.

Quite the opposite. As I've indicated in the above posts, I simply think that there is a possibility that the line isn't doing quite AS badly as some are suggesting. For me it comes down to expectations. Maybe these Store Managers that have reportedly said that sales are poor, had the expectation that huge volumes of sets were going to fly off the shelves, and are considering the line a failure now that sales are not quite as astronomical as they hoped. Maybe sales are good in some areas, better in others, and downright awful in yet more. Sales in general may still be good enough for TLG to consider it a success. My point is that we really don't know. For all we know, TLG are putting all their marketing resources into a big Xmas push for the new Hobbit sets, and once they hopefully achieve success with that, will turn their attention to the mid year release of another LOR wave.

Rivendell and Gondor could indeed do good things for the line. But I get the feeling that while a large Rivendell set would be lapped up by older builders, a smaller series of Gondor based ones that could be joined together may appeal more the the younger target market.

[Deathleech]

Rivendell and Gondor could indeed do good things for the line. But I get the feeling that while a large Rivendell set would be lapped up by older builders, a smaller series of Gondor based ones that could be joined together may appeal more the the younger target market.

I agree. I don't think a Galadriel centered set, or more Rivendell stuff is going to be a big hit with kids. Sure it's iconic and beautiful, but it has few play features and no action in these scenes. On the other hand a Balrog, Mumakil, or Gondor siege set would have TONS of things kids want. Big creatures like a Balrog, Mumakil, or armored mountain troll, tons of exploding walls/pieces and flick fire missiles that actually make sense, and of course beautiful new molds. Plus they could have tons of army building potential too. I don't see how this WOULDN'T be a big hit? AFOLs still get iconic scenes and unique pieces/molds while kids get really cool and interesting creatures and play features.