LEGO LotR - general discussion

[BrickG]

I just want something with a large fell beast figure.

[wesker]

I just want something with a large fell beast figure.

I'd like something similar to the Dragon Mountain set. Just replace the mountain with some Osgiliath ruins, the dragon with a molded fell beast and the castle minifigures with Eowyn, Witch-King, Theoden and Merry.

[Alcarin]

I'd like something similar to the Dragon Mountain set. Just replace the mountain with some Osgiliath ruins, the dragon with a molded fell beast and the castle minifigures with Eowyn, Witch-King, Theoden and Merry.

When did Theoden Merry and Eownyn fight at Osgilliath ruins? wtf

totally not fitting together !!!

[wesker]

The set needs a build and a small grassy area made of a few scrap pieces isn't going to cut it in a set with a large molded creature. Theoden, Merry and Eowyn may not have fought at Osgiliath, but we did see the Witch-King perched on one of the ruined towers there when he ordered Gothmog to attack Minas Tirith. Thats a good enough reason than any to include it.

Besides since when has Lego ever restricted itself to screen accuracy? Just look at some of the Star Wars sets we've gotten the past couple years - Ceremony Leia in the Y-Wing, Jango Fett in the Tank Droid, Aurra Sing in Sugi's Gunship, Coleman Trebor in the AT-TE, Queen Amidala in the Gungan Sub, Ahsoka in the Umbaran MHC, Han in the A-Wing etc.

[Nobrux]

When did Theoden Merry and Eownyn fight at Osgilliath ruins? wtf

totally not fitting together !!!

You don't need to be rude just because you disagree with something. Calling people names and swearing is just negative criticism.

By the way, I do think wesker idea is nice.

[Alcarin]

The set needs a build and a small grassy area made of a few scrap pieces isn't going to cut it in a set with a large molded creature. Theoden, Merry and Eowyn may not have fought at Osgiliath, but we did see the Witch-King perched on one of the ruined towers there when he ordered Gothmog to attack Minas Tirith. Thats a good enough reason than any to include it.

Besides since when has Lego ever restricted itself to screen accuracy? Just look at some of the Star Wars sets we've gotten the past couple years - Ceremony Leia in the Y-Wing, Jango Fett in the Tank Droid, Aurra Sing in Sugi's Gunship, Coleman Trebor in the AT-TE, Queen Amidala in the Gungan Sub, Ahsoka in the Umbaran MHC, Han in the A-Wing etc.

Thats a very BAD reason to include it....

Faramir, with some rangers/gondor troops and Gothmog/orcs with Witch king now thats a good reason to include .....

Star Wars is something else but LOTR with like maybe 3 waves (or 4) is totally unfitting to put heroes just randomly.... best to put Boromir in Unexpected Gathering, Frodo in helm's Deep and so on and on ....

You can always add brick built DEAD olifont instead of Osgilliath which supplies the bricks and adds way more logical inclusion in the sat than any ruins......

[Deathleech]

Well technically a set like that could be part of Osgiliath AND Pelennor Fields since there really isn't much for Lego to put in it to represent Pelennor Fields, and since it butts right up between Osgiliath and Minas Tirith. I think it might be a little confusing to people though. Personally I would rather see a Pelennor Fields/Minas Tirith gate set, kinda like the Black Gates. While the build might not be all that interesting, it could easily include Faramir, Eowyn, Rohan Merry, Theoden, the Witch King, and even Gothmog (plus some Gondor and orc soldiers if need be). Lego could cover all the main minifgs still missing in one $80 set. They could also do a wall add on, or a separate $30 Osgiliath Ruins set that includes more Gondor Soldiers and Mordor Orcs to army build with.

Basically what I am saying is no matter what Lego decides to do, they could easily make 2 more LotR sets and pretty much cover all the main figures and factions we are still missing. I think most people could live without Easterlings, Haradrim, a Balrog, Mumakil, Gothmog, Denethor, etc. (though it would be a huge shame), but no Gondor Soldiers, Eowyn, Faramir, or Witch King is unacceptable. Lego could do a minimal investment into a wave, or even combine it with a Hobbit wave and fans would, for the most part, feel the LotR line is "whole". As is it just feels so wrong. We have the first wave that hit a lot of iconic scenes but then the second had stuff like the Pirate Ship Ambush which many feel like was a wasted space if we arn't getting anymore LotR waves.

[deskp]

Basically what I am saying is no matter what Lego decides to do, they could easily make 2 more LotR sets and pretty much cover all the main figures and factions we are still missing. I think most people could live without Easterlings, Haradrim, a Balrog, Mumakil, Gothmog, Denethor, etc. (though it would be a huge shame), but no Gondor Soldiers, Eowyn, Faramir, or Witch King is unacceptable. Lego could do a minimal investment into a wave, or even combine it with a Hobbit wave and fans would, for the most part, feel the LotR line is "whole". As is it just feels so wrong. We have the first wave that hit a lot of iconic scenes but then the second had stuff like the Pirate Ship Ambush which many feel like was a wasted space if we arn't getting anymore LotR waves.

Yes I agree with this. 1 more set with Faramir, Eowyn, Witch king, Gondorian soldier, and possibly a new printed army orc. Considering Eowyn could easily come without her helmet, it would account for 2 new molds.

As for an osgiliath/Eowyn set, thats totally ok. yes its not the same scene, but geographically its litterally shoulder to shoulder. And the witch king would be the 'connective tissue' he hangs out in Osgiliath AND fights Eowyn.

Remember The council of Elrond set included Arwen, even though shes from a few scenes prior.

Edited December 1, 2013 by deskp

[wesker]

^ That hairpiece is perfect for Eowyn. I never really liked the generic maiden hair she had in the video game. The mermaid hairpiece would be another good option. Both are already available in the blonde colour so either one works for me.

[Dragonfire]

Blonde isn't really the right colour. Either of those hairpieces in the colour that deskp suggested would work very well.

[Blazej_Holen]

Blonde isn't really the right colour. Either of those hairpieces in the colour that deskp suggested would work very well.

Blonde is the right colour. That hairpiece posted by DESKP is wrong. Eowyn has golden hair...go on, read the book or watch the movie :)

[Risgrynsgrot]

I assume she would look like she does in the LOTR game.

[deskp]

I assume she would look like she does in the LOTR game.

Thats not how it works, The video game guys makes up their own version when lego does not have the refrence to provide them with.

Also, she does not tie ehr hair up like that for the battle. thats more of a helms deep thing.

[Faefrost]

Thats not how it works, The video game guys makes up their own version when lego does not have the refrence to provide them with.

Also, she does not tie ehr hair up like that for the battle. thats more of a helms deep thing.

Although that might be a more appropriate hairpiece to use if they were planning on offering the fig with an armored breastplate?

[biancawong]

I'm looking forward to seeing a set based on Edoras, the golden hall of Rohan. I know such projects exist on CUUSOO. However, it'd be cool to see a set of the entire village on the mountain, as seen in the movie. Hopefully the golden hall will be a good plus to the LotR line, since the Helm's Deep set gave us quite a lot of grey bricks, and the Orthanc tower set gave us a lot of black bricks, I can see a golden hall set give us a lot of sand/reddish brown, also building techniques of small/big cottage.

[Faefrost]

I'm hoping I am wrong. But that last teaser page in the new Hobbit set instructions has me a bit worried. It says "Lego the Hobbit The Journey Concludes 2014". That leads me to suspect that the Summer wave may be another Hobbit wave. And no word on a third LotR one. (Remember TABA got pushed back from a summer release.)

Should we be starting to worry?

[DragonKnights]

I think the final Hobbit wave will come at the same time as the movie in December of 2014. No reason to expect more than one more hobbit wave.

No word yet on LOTR 2014, but you have to think there will be at least one more wave, there's just too much major material to be covered. I think there will be one more in Summer 2014 with a Gondor focus.

The Hobbit sets seemed to be selling well at my lego store today. I showed up at 4pm and picked up the last MEA, and the next to last LTC set. So they must have sold a good bit on opening day.

[deskp]

Although that might be a more appropriate hairpiece to use if they were planning on offering the fig with an armored breastplate?

Eomer did not get a breastplate, and Eowyns armor is really slim, a breastplate for her would look bad.

[Fives]

I could deal with an Osgiliath/Eowyn vs. Angmar crossover. It would be a clever way of killing two birds with one stone, and still leave space in the wave for nicely sized Minas Tirith sets.

Also, just to go back to the whole 'demonic' Balrog discussion, I have one more point to make in favour of making the Balrog: Darth Maul.

Seriously, red skin, yellow eyes and horns screams demonic to me. So why should the Balrog be chastised for its design more than an evil Sith Lord? Just some food for thought on the subject.

[Deathleech]

Also, just to go back to the whole 'demonic' Balrog discussion, I have one more point to make in favour of making the Balrog: Darth Maul.

Seriously, red skin, yellow eyes and horns screams demonic to me. So why should the Balrog be chastised for its design more than an evil Sith Lord? Just some food for thought on the subject.

Well in Star Wars it's explained Darth Maul is a Sith and of an alien race. Other than having red skin he is very much a living creature that can be slain. The Balrog is s little more vague. A lot of stuff surrounding it could be paralleled to a demon and/or the devil. The Balrog comes from deep beneath the ground and is made of fire.. both of these things are usually synonymous with hell. The Balrog even looks like a demon with all the black and fire and he battles Gandalf who is an Istari, similar to an angel.

Personally I see no issue with making a Balrog set and I don't think the comparison to a demon would be enough to bar Lego from making a set. I am sure there are many other things that would prevent it first. I mean, it COULD be a small factor, but I don't think it would be the only reason or the main one.

[Faefrost]

I honestly don't think they would skip out on making a Balrog because some people might think it looks like a demon or devil. Have you looked at some of the Hero Factory and Bionacle faces? The assorted undead? The grim reapers over in Castle? It just seems like an overly insane reason not to make a thing well described in classic literature. They have plenty of cover with it. I think with the Balrog it's more a matter of how to complete the scene in a fun manner at a reasonable price. The Balrog is an easy constraction fig (Hello new ball joints over in Chima). But to do it right you need the Balrog and Gandalf on a bridge that collapses as a play feature. How much of your sets budget do you want to waste on that bridge?

Besides, if you are going to refer to the Balrog as a demon or demonic, then we really should take it all the way. Yes there is a bit of demon in the Balrog. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and much of the books do leverage that a bit. But by the same token, is Gandalf not considered an Angel? Made to be a tool and messenger by the creator. Sent to Middle Earth to protect the world and its people from the evil of another like him who had fallen?

Edited December 2, 2013 by Faefrost

[Fives]

We could delve into all the allegory that happens in the Middle-Earth Legendarium that parallels Catholicism, but this really isn't the place to get into it.

All I'll say is that, at the core, Sauron is essentially Satan (well, Morgoth is, but Sauron kinda is too), the Istari are angels, and let's not forget about all the outrageous racist undertones within the story. But did that stop LEGO from acquiring the license? No. They did it because it's one of the most famous movie franchises ever and has a huge fan following.

This curiosity towards the whole Balrog thing, and in turn the actual reality of a third wave, makes me want to write a letter to LEGO to inquire about the chances of LOTR getting more sets. It I kelt would yield few concrete answers, but any small hint might be able to clarify LEGO's intentions with the future of this theme.

[wesker]

I'm looking forward to seeing a set based on Edoras, the golden hall of Rohan. I know such projects exist on CUUSOO. However, it'd be cool to see a set of the entire village on the mountain, as seen in the movie. Hopefully the golden hall will be a good plus to the LotR line, since the Helm's Deep set gave us quite a lot of grey bricks, and the Orthanc tower set gave us a lot of black bricks, I can see a golden hall set give us a lot of sand/reddish brown, also building techniques of small/big cottage.

I would love to see Edoras made. The project on CUUSOO is a perfect representation of it. Although even with one final wave I don't like the chances of us seeing it.

[Darth Caedus]

let's not forget about all the outrageous racist undertones within the story

Don't be too hasty to slap such labels on Tolkien, and keep in mind the modern lens through which we view things. Having examined these issues thoroughly in an academic setting, Tolkien is never outrageously racist: the Haradrim are vague and peripheral enough that there's not really an issue there (especially since their evil only stems from being in Sauron's thrall), and Dwarves are Semitic in origin but are nothing if not a proud and noble race. The true outrageous racism was in Tolkien's peer, C.S. Lewis - a quick reading of blatant anti-Arab prejudice wrapped in all the Tash/Calormene stuff The Last Battle makes that painfully clear.

But your point is accurate - despite all the questionable elements in both Tolkien and the PJ films, Lego took the license because it makes money. The Balrog-Devil theory is pure malarkey - an unfortunate symptom of the depth of the Lego fandom. We love this stuff and pine for it every single day, and new waves come but twice a year, if that. So in the meantime, it's very easy to get wrapped up in theories and delusions about why certain fan-favorite characters and scenes remain unproduced in Lego, when the explanation is probably quite simple and technical: the Balrog is a massive, extremely kinetic character, and translating that to Lego at an effective pricepoint, without it looking stupid or out of place, and still being highly pose-able is quite challenging - so it's no surprise that they opted for sets that would be easier to design and produce for the second wave: a ship, a couple of small dioramas, a gate. Also remember that the development cycle for Lego LOTR and the Hobbit is easily the most tumultuous they've had to deal with yet - 2 movies being split into 3, release date for the 3rd movie being shifted half a year (July-Dec), plot demarcations shifting drastically in the editing process (Dol Guldur arc), entire characters being revamped (Bolg)... honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they planned the 3rd Hobbit wave for Summer 2014, when TABA was supposed to come out - and are now either scrambling to get some LOTR sets together for the Summer, or prepping a final sendoff wave for 2015. More evidence that supports how jumbled things are: the Hobbit game is coming in Spring 2014, which would have been perfect if TABA was coming out in the summer as it was planned, but it got shifted forward 6 months, and the game gets left out to dry.

[BrickG]

I think the main issue with the Balrog isn't that it's demonic or anything. It would be tough to do in figure form. It's essentially a d00d almost completely covered in flames. I'm not sure how you'd represent him effectively with all those flames. He'd likely have to be one of the most detailed lego figures we've ever seen both print wise and molding detail wise, by far.