LEGO LotR - general discussion

[SMC]

Ninjago resulted in TLG's switchboards lighting up with 10's of thousands of upset mothers that their kids favorite toy line was being cancelled. Lego had never seen anything like it. I somehow suspect that having the mothers of the LotR fans all call in wouldn't quite have the same effect.

How about getting all the kids to phone up lego and tell them they made there dad sad

[atreyu2112]

If this line ends now which seems so this will be the biggest missed opportunity of LEGO ever... and it will be hard to beat it from the top spot....

Indeed. Just about as epic as the movies themselves.

Good idea - I'm pretty sure you could get a nice number of people signing that.

I'd be good for 10-20 people. Better than nothing...

[Risgrynsgrot]

I think the community here is a bit dramatic - whenever there's any bad news, its all gloomy, and as soon as there's even the tiniest bit of positive news, everyone starts praising about it and comes up with ideas for sets.

I'm gonna wait a bit longer for more info before I make up my mind. It would be weird to discontinue the theme now, especially since it apparently has been selling well.

[deskp]

I think the community here is a bit dramatic - whenever there's any bad news, its all gloomy, and as soon as there's even the tiniest bit of positive news, everyone starts praising about it and comes up with ideas for sets.

Thats the fun about it though. We could just sit around waiting for information. but it's more fun to speculate/hope etc.

[The geeky kind]

It's a bit like the football transfer window in here.... :-)

[Ardelon]

Could it be that the designers couldn't come up with acceptable sets? Most of the sets we want that appear in this thead include a big creature (balrog, treebeard, fell beast, mumak), and maybe the designers couldn't justify the expense for new molds, or in the case of brickbuilt creatures, couldn't find a balance between sturdiness, posability, aesthetic and price point. And then they just might have thought that it wouldn't be worth it just to release 1-2 Gondor army builder sets. Not a very likely scenario, I'm just thinking out loud about why TLG wouldn't make another LotR wave...

[deskp]

Not a very likely scenario, I'm just thinking out loud about why TLG wouldn't make another LotR wave...

Yeah thats not at all likely.

Lego ends themes all the time, and its got nothing to do with the creative people/designers. soemtiems it just makes sense with Lego's overall strategy

[Shroffy123]

Anyone know why lego is so secretative with release dates, themes, and sets?

[deskp]

Anyone know why lego is so secretative with release dates, themes, and sets?

They want you to care about what is available in stores right this moment, so that you will go out and spend money on that insetad of saving your money for soemthing better in the future, so when that SECRET better thing shows up in the future you will have to buy that aswell, and they will have gotten your money twize!

[Alcarin]

Could it be that the designers couldn't come up with acceptable sets? Most of the sets we want that appear in this thead include a big creature (balrog, treebeard, fell beast, mumak), and maybe the designers couldn't justify the expense for new molds, or in the case of brickbuilt creatures, couldn't find a balance between sturdiness, posability, aesthetic and price point. And then they just might have thought that it wouldn't be worth it just to release 1-2 Gondor army builder sets. Not a very likely scenario, I'm just thinking out loud about why TLG wouldn't make another LotR wave...

Thats possible, however unlikely.... I mean if they could justify Troll in Mines of Moria there is no good reason why not justify Fell beast which would be an instant winner for all who bought LOTR (or huge majority)

[Darth Punk]

They want you to care about what is available in stores right this moment, so that you will go out and spend money on that insetad of saving your money for soemthing better in the future, so when that SECRET better thing shows up in the future you will have to buy that aswell, and they will have gotten your money twize!

Seems to,be working, I'm getting sucked into the Star Wars vortex. Especially with more OT sets coming out, resistance is becoming futile.

[Sarah]

Thats possible, however unlikely.... I mean if they could justify Troll in Mines of Moria there is no good reason why not justify Fell beast which would be an instant winner for all who bought LOTR (or huge majority)

...I remember the Troll in the Mines from the movies. I'm having trouble remembering the Fell Beast. Is that the horse-thing that the WItch King was riding when Eowyn so dramatically kills him. (I want that scene!) Or the big camel-like things that others of the attackers were riding?

[Blakstone]

The fell beast is the flying serpent that the Witch King is on. The giant elephant thing is not as popular or requested a piece. Many of us want to do the Eowyn vs the Witch King which I would image would also have Theoden, the Fell Beast, Merry in Rohan garb, and possible Theoden's horse. I love the printing in the video game for it.

[kevkipo]

Quick question. In the past, how has LEGO announced that a specific line has ended or been discontinued? I have a few LotR sets and I've taken it easy thinking the line would be around for awhile.

You know... im thinking he has a point (o.o)~ $ with Ninjago they also had some message's like Goodbye for now (Dundun...DUUUUN) and Coming back in 2014! As long as we haven't heard about some sets im being optimistic, My father always says No news means good news and he's quite right with that. I mean come on people! How the flippity crap will this be ending! It's a Trilogy

that means 3 movie's and 3 Waves

But for a Hobbit fan like me... Yippakeeyaahiyeah

the 4 sets already sound awesome and i can't even find names X)

i saw the size's of the boxes and with the biggest one (as i have not seen the size of 2...17)

im thinking for a Smaug or Battle of the five army's set! (Whoop Whoop)

as Smaug (Spoiler) will be attacking lake-town

For all the LOTR fans i say... im sorry if it ends, but just keep waiting

it'll come im Sure!

Just saying i hate the Simpson's theme, Why would they make Mini-Leg printing for those stupid figures

and not for awesome figures like Thorin, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Kili, Fili, Bofur and many more!

and why would they make Drugged out chimp looking face's for like 20 Simpson's minifigs and not awesome hats for Gondor soldiers, Eowyn, Sauron and many more!

Also isn't this a little bit early to say R.I.P Lego LOTR? when where the Hobbit pictures announced. 2 Month's before release!

and the LOTR sets are released in Summer, It's now January so... :)

But i must say we also had Lake-Town Chase announced at the special event (was it Comic Con?) in Summer 2013 :S

But no worries, be happy. What if there will be a LOTR 2014 theme? then you have been worrying the whole time for nothing! is that worth it?

See you later Lads!

-Kevkipo

Edited January 7, 2014 by kevkipo

[Proximo]

You know... im thinking he has a point (o.o)~ $ with Ninjago they also had some message's like Goodbye for now (Dundun...DUUUUN) and Coming back in 2014! As long as we haven't heard about some sets im being optimistic, My father always says No news means good news and he's quite right with that. I mean come on people! How the flippity crap will this be ending!

I don't know for Ninjago but not for HP for example.

It's a Trilogy

that means 3 movie's

So far so true...

and 3 Waves

I can't find any law which stated this but maybe you know more than I haha.

For all the LOTR fans i say... im sorry if it ends, but just keep waiting

it'll come im Sure!

I guess you will wait a very long time.

Just saying i hate the Simpson's theme, Why would they make Mini-Leg printing for those stupid figures

and not for awesome figures like Thorin, Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Kili, Fili, Bofur and many more!

and why would they make Drugged out chimp looking face's for like 20 Simpson's minifigs and not awesome hats for Gondor soldiers, Eowyn, Sauron and many more!

Beside the fact that we are in the Lord of the Rings thread here, these figures are ugly anyway. Even printed legs don't change anything.

Also isn't this a little bit early to say R.I.P Lego LOTR? when where the Hobbit pictures announced. 2 Month's before release!

and the LOTR sets are released in Summer, It's now January so... :)

But i must say we also had Lake-Town Chase announced at the special event (was it Comic Con?) in Summer 2013 :S

We don't talk about the lack of pictures, but about the more and more obvious hints that there isn't a third wave at all.

We already know the setnumbers and boxsizes of the new Hobbit sets, they will be released in October or even later. It's now January so... I don't see your logic here.

[Fives]

The likeliest reason for LEGO not continuing with this theme is simply sales. I think LEGO anticipated far stronger sales from this license, thinking that the popularity and large fan base would support all of the new molds and prints needed for the sets. But remember how quickly Weathertop and Gandalf Arrives were retired? The sales just weren't up to par with what they'd originally hoped, so they obviously decided to scale it down a bit.

They also tried to widen the range when they decided to make the Corsair Ship. One of the main reasons that set was made was because 'kids like pirate ships'. Sure, it gave us the King and Soldiers of the Dead, but overall it was a very poor set choice. I think trying to widen the demographic of the theme ultimately backfired and caused sales to drop even more.

From a business standpoint, it might make sense to stop LOTR, and just ride out The Hobbit through the third film's release, then call it quits, and it seems that the likelihood of that becoming a reality is far greater than what we hope.

That being said, LEGO pays attention to these forums. They are aware of the little things that the fans want (they went out of their way to avoid a flesh neckline on the new Mirkwood Elves, so as to allow more use between flesh and yellow figs), and I'd like to think that they wouldn't just leave the fans high and dry like this. Part of me feels that LEGO will at least do one final big farewell set, if they don't do a full wave.

[SirBlake]

From a business standpoint, it might make sense to stop LOTR, and just ride out The Hobbit through the third film's release, then call it quits, and it seems that the likelihood of that becoming a reality is far greater than what we hope.

You say that, and I see your point, but it doesn't take a business genius to know that one or two new molds (Gondor helmet/shield) in a proper battle pack would be like printing their own money. It would be a top seller, no doubt.

[Blakstone]

LEGO is a very successful toy company and they have information on sell figures that we don't. I want new molds and prints for Gondor as well. But would that really sell more sets than the new Rohan and Uruk Hai molds? I think at most it would be even... unless there are a ton of AFOLs that have sat out all of LEGO Lord of the Rings because it did not have Gondor.

LEGO seems to have a set budget for each wave / line. New prints especially leg prints cost extra as does existing bricks in new colors. New molds cost the most.

From the designers videos you can see that they consider a lot of aspects in these sets and minifigures. Fives pointed out the lack of flesh tones on the Mirkwood Elves to encourage Castle fans to buy. They also had the new gothic arches in a new color for Mirkwood Elf Army to draw non LotR fans and Bricklinks to buy. They design their orcs and Uurk Hai minifigs for the maximum amount of variation for the minimal amount of pieces.

We also know that LEGO is willing to walk away from a line that exceeds expectations because there is no media support (a la Pirates of the Carribean from the Stockholders Report).

I think there is another goal from the LEGO Lord of the Rings line. It was designed to bring another group of fans into LEGO with the hopes that they will stick around after the lien is over. It has done that for me. I buy a lot of LEGO now, for myself and as gifts, after LotR brought me back from my Dark Ages. I love the modulars, Superheroes, and Collectible Minifigures. I bought Kingdoms after the announcement and before LotR hit the shelves. I used to admin a LEGO Lord of the Rings and LEGO Hobbit pages until LEGO shut us down.

So it may really not be in LEGO's best interest to continue the LotR line. We just don't have the financials to know. They are trying to draw in new fan groups with Minecraft, Top Gear, and Simpsons.

Still I hope we get more LEGO Lord of the Rings. If anyone wants to start a campagn or petition to save the line, I will join.

[coolguy2323]

I'm going to be very upset if this is true. I'll wait for confirmation first though, it just seems to weird to be true. Minas Tirith alone would sell great.

Also I am really getting tired of that stupid Lego Movie. Dumb dumb dumb.

Edited January 7, 2014 by coolguy2323

[Alcarin]

The likeliest reason for LEGO not continuing with this theme is simply sales. I think LEGO anticipated far stronger sales from this license, thinking that the popularity and large fan base would support all of the new molds and prints needed for the sets. But remember how quickly Weathertop and Gandalf Arrives were retired? The sales just weren't up to par with what they'd originally hoped, so they obviously decided to scale it down a bit.

They also tried to widen the range when they decided to make the Corsair Ship. One of the main reasons that set was made was because 'kids like pirate ships'. Sure, it gave us the King and Soldiers of the Dead, but overall it was a very poor set choice. I think trying to widen the demographic of the theme ultimately backfired and caused sales to drop even more.

From a business standpoint, it might make sense to stop LOTR, and just ride out The Hobbit through the third film's release, then call it quits, and it seems that the likelihood of that becoming a reality is far greater than what we hope.

That being said, LEGO pays attention to these forums. They are aware of the little things that the fans want (they went out of their way to avoid a flesh neckline on the new Mirkwood Elves, so as to allow more use between flesh and yellow figs), and I'd like to think that they wouldn't just leave the fans high and dry like this. Part of me feels that LEGO will at least do one final big farewell set, if they don't do a full wave.

LEGO has only themselves to thank for poor sales really.... If they did their research they'd knew the demographics for this line and they'd also knew what to design.... sadly they punched in the dark with their design choices..... for LOTR to ultimately succeed they should've done

1 - Bpacks

2 - Iconic locations that are DISPLAY worthy (+ occasional play features)

If they followed these 2 simple steps the line would be WIN..... instead they want to make kids LOTR (Mines of Moria, Elronds council throwing feature, etc.) and adult LOTR (Orthanc, Helm's Deep, Bag End etc.)

Black Gate will forever be prime example of LEGO LOTR failures... you cant have set with 3/5 named characters that is advertized as ''BUY 2 and make bigger structure'' its just against common LEGO logic for any AFOL out there.... and we all know Moms wont buy their kids 2x same set because they will tell the kid he already got this....

so we got what? An ultimate ''failed'' attempt of bolstering sales thanks to figures inside.

LEGO is a very successful toy company and they have information on sell figures that we don't. I want new molds and prints for Gondor as well. But would that really sell more sets than the new Rohan and Uruk Hai molds? I think at most it would be even... unless there are a ton of AFOLs that have sat out all of LEGO Lord of the Rings because it did not have Gondor.

LEGO seems to have a set budget for each wave / line. New prints especially leg prints cost extra as does existing bricks in new colors. New molds cost the most.

From the designers videos you can see that they consider a lot of aspects in these sets and minifigures. Fives pointed out the lack of flesh tones on the Mirkwood Elves to encourage Castle fans to buy. They also had the new gothic arches in a new color for Mirkwood Elf Army to draw non LotR fans and Bricklinks to buy. They design their orcs and Uurk Hai minifigs for the maximum amount of variation for the minimal amount of pieces.

We also know that LEGO is willing to walk away from a line that exceeds expectations because there is no media support (a la Pirates of the Carribean from the Stockholders Report).

I think there is another goal from the LEGO Lord of the Rings line. It was designed to bring another group of fans into LEGO with the hopes that they will stick around after the lien is over. It has done that for me. I buy a lot of LEGO now, for myself and as gifts, after LotR brought me back from my Dark Ages. I love the modulars, Superheroes, and Collectible Minifigures. I bought Kingdoms after the announcement and before LotR hit the shelves. I used to admin a LEGO Lord of the Rings and LEGO Hobbit pages until LEGO shut us down.

So it may really not be in LEGO's best interest to continue the LotR line. We just don't have the financials to know. They are trying to draw in new fan groups with Minecraft, Top Gear, and Simpsons.

Still I hope we get more LEGO Lord of the Rings. If anyone wants to start a campagn or petition to save the line, I will join.

Obviously barely any LEGO LOTR fan stand away of LEGO LOTR because of no Gondor... but that was the main thing... everyone or huge majority expected Gondor to arrive within 3rd wave... If people would sat out they would have to then pay above retail for retired sets ....

I must admit if this is the end of LOTR and I knew only these sets come out I would probably purchase 5 times less..... I would get Helm's Deep and 2x uruk-hai army and bricklink entire Fellowship and tons of extra Uruks/Rohan soldiers .......... instead now i will probably be left with a half completed line without atleast 3-5 million time more iconic scenes than Pirate Ship Ambush and/or Gandalf arrives and without atleast 3 important named characters and atleast 3 types of generic soldiers (possibly more)

While I am LEGO fan and LEGO LOTR brought me from Dark ages I spent majority of LEGO purchases on LOTR.... I have little to no interest in other lines except for a few extraordinary minifigures from other sets (Darth Malgus, Satele Shan, some CMFs) so without LOTR sets to atleast finish the line I have no big interest in spending for LEGO overall... but then again that might be a good thing for my future lol

[Fives]

Blakstone, you make a good point with POTC. That line was pretty good, and required a ton of new, intricate pieces (Jack's headpieces), but it only lasted one wave, because at the time there was only one movie to support the interest. However, they still released the Pearl later the same year, and that set included the much wanted Davy Jones figure. Sure, there were a lot of scenes that were never touched on, but they at least covered the most iconic ship and characters from the films.

Now, the world of LOTR is far more vast that POTC, so comparing the two themes is kinda hard. That said, I feel like there is no reason LEGO couldn't release one final set; a big, $300 Minas Tirith set, including Faramir, Eowyn, the Witch-King, Denethor, and the Hobbits in armour, along with a Fell Beast and a bunch of soldiers for both sides. That way LEGO will have covered the major secondary characters and villains form the films, and tied up the loose end that current is the state of this theme.

I seriously believe that LEGO is more likely to say its goodbye to LOTR, but go out with a bang, and make a nice big exclusive geared towards the AFOLs and LOTR fans who so desperately want to see an official LEGO iteration of the White City.

And Alcarin, they didn't make a 'kids' Mines of Moria. They made a LEGO Mines of Moria. Honestly, the way that they handled many of the scenes as sets makes a lot of sense. Each set keeps the essence of the scene, but also allows for playability, something that is essential to toys. If you're looking for display models, either MOC your dream LEGO Middle-Earth, or look at other avenues of collecting. It seems that your hopes for the theme were so high that there was no way for you to be disappointed. Sorry if I offended you in any way.

[SirBlake]

LEGO is a very successful toy company and they have information on sell figures that we don't. I want new molds and prints for Gondor as well. But would that really sell more sets than the new Rohan and Uruk Hai molds? I think at most it would be even... unless there are a ton of AFOLs that have sat out all of LEGO Lord of the Rings because it did not have Gondor.

Couple things here...

First, based purely on anecdotal evidence (because that's all we have) it isn't a stretch to say that Helms Deep and Uruk-Hai Attack were among the most successful sets in LOTR.

Second, Uruk-Hai Attack wasn't a battle pack in the purest sense of the term because it included a fairly substantial build that raised the price point. A 5 or 6 fig BP with small catapult type builds would have been an even bigger seller.

[Blakstone]

SirBlake, I agree. My point is LEGO would have a good idea how many Gondor sets would sell as they can compare them to the Rohan sets. I think all the talk about LEGO losing money if they don't make a third wave is wrong though. It is opportunity cost. They know what money they would make if they do it, but it is competing with other possible lines for shelf space and production line time. Top Gear is rumored to come. That would not require any new molds at all but it might bring a whole new demographic to LEGO.

I fervently hope that there is a third wave. My LEGO purchases would drop as well. I don't like this current Castle line. Superheros, modulars, and CMF would still keep me active. However, if Kingdoms or something like that appeared, I would buy there.

[SirBlake]

I see your point and think that wherever we differ in opinion is minutia. I also agree with that second paragraph.

The only major difference in our views is that I think TLG dropped the ball on set selection (especially wave 2). And I don't give them as much credit as you. But I may be jaded after years of Hasbro Star Wars collecting. :-)

[Faefrost]

The likeliest reason for LEGO not continuing with this theme is simply sales. I think LEGO anticipated far stronger sales from this license, thinking that the popularity and large fan base would support all of the new molds and prints needed for the sets. But remember how quickly Weathertop and Gandalf Arrives were retired? The sales just weren't up to par with what they'd originally hoped, so they obviously decided to scale it down a bit.

They also tried to widen the range when they decided to make the Corsair Ship. One of the main reasons that set was made was because 'kids like pirate ships'. Sure, it gave us the King and Soldiers of the Dead, but overall it was a very poor set choice. I think trying to widen the demographic of the theme ultimately backfired and caused sales to drop even more.

From a business standpoint, it might make sense to stop LOTR, and just ride out The Hobbit through the third film's release, then call it quits, and it seems that the likelihood of that becoming a reality is far greater than what we hope.

We have to be careful about making assumptions about sales, or the success or failure of things with no hard or real data. Case in point the "early retirement" of Gandalf Arrives and Weathertop. Early retirement does not always men failure. Actually more often than not it indicates that sales for a specific set substantially exceeded expectations. But the business case is not quite there to justify another full run of the product. Most typically because they already have what would be viewed as an acceptable replacement product deep in the production pipeline. In the case of Weathertop and Gandalf Arrives, they pretty well sold out and reached retirement at MSRP. No matter how you slice it that equates to a success.

The same thing with the Pirate ship. I know the LotR purists hate it. But I would not be surprised to find that it is one of the top selling sets of the entire 2 lines. It has broad cross theme appeal and seems to frequently sell off the shelves at local merchants and big box stores. Once again almost entirely at MSRP. (Amazon did a few sales, never encountered it discounted at Walmart Target etc.)

But none of this really means much in the long run for the LotR line. IP movie based themes such as HP, LotR, PotC etc, do a full order of magnitude more business when there is a movie to tie into. LotR has probably been a successful theme. It rode interest in both its source movies and in the then upcoming Hobbit films. However right now we are in a tight scheduled point between 2 Hobbit movies. (And it was originally planned to be even tighter.) so there is more benefit to ride the Hobbit movies out at this point. There will be some new Hobbit push quarterly between now and the last movie. Be it this movie release, DVD release, new trailers for the next, etc. hence why it is better for them to do another Hobbit wave, and most certainly why any new tooling would be directed at Hobbit stuff rather than Gondorians.

Honestly? While I think LotR was highly successful, I think in order to see another LotR wave (beyond maybe another d2c set) TLG would have to come to the conclusion that it is so successful as to be worth gaining a long term license for, without media tie in, ala Star Wars. I don't see that happening unless New Line somehow manages to option the Silmarillion or other published works. Otherwise this winter will be the peak point of roi on the two themes, and they would probably walk away from it as a success. (Important rule, don't keep doing something until it is no longer a success. See; Lego, Bionacle) Getting off as the train tops the peak and is going to look downward is the safe and conservative strategy. I think TLG is looking to Superheroes to evolve into their next 10+ year long term license. Not LotR.

It would actually be most interesting to know how LotR and Hobbit sales and profits compared to Fantasy Era? Which by all accounts was a successful and somewhat comparable non licensed line.