Alcarin Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Exactly! One of the TLG designers or reps told us up front in some interview or public commentary, way back when LotR sets were first announced, that each license specifically defines what constitutes a "construction set" for the purposes of that individual license. Things like piece count to figures, etc. they outright said that the wording of the LotR and Hobbit license does not permit the SW style 4 generic figs plus 50 piece build Battlepacks. It requires either fewer figures or more build. Hence the $30 5 fig Army Builders like Uruk Hai Army, Mirkwood Elf Army etc. it's not that they are choosing not to do Battlepacks. It is that it is not permitted under the terms of the license they have. This is a decision from WB, not Lego. Some licensors require a more substantial build in order to keep a cleaner separation between construction toy licenses and action figure licenses. Remember when Hasbro took issue with the magnets, they did not challenge Lego. Their beef was with Lucasfilms. Some license holders want to better shield themselves from conflict between licensees. It's an issue of lawyers and contracts. Not marketing or product development decisions. Which is perfectly ok.... problem is they did not offer enough B-packs :) I wish we'd gotten an Rohan B-pack and Mordor Bpack and so on and on .... I dont mind paying 30$ for Bpack because that means they exist atleast..... I paid 3€ per fig for uruk-hais found it better to pay 35€ for 10 uruk-hais in armor and helmets than buying Bpack..... but Rohan Soldiers are costly... over 6€ per fig mostly... Quote
Deathleech Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) Exactly! One of the TLG designers or reps told us up front in some interview or public commentary, way back when LotR sets were first announced, that each license specifically defines what constitutes a "construction set" for the purposes of that individual license. Things like piece count to figures, etc. they outright said that the wording of the LotR and Hobbit license does not permit the SW style 4 generic figs plus 50 piece build Battlepacks. Do you have a link to this? I know there has been tons of speculation about it, but I don't recall any Lego reps ever saying it point blank. Plus as SirBlake points out it's hard to wrap your head around because there is no current LotR action figures being released and there haven't been for years. You would THINK they would be much more lenient with a license like that than say Star Wars where Hasbro has the action figure license, is currently using it, and it's one of their main lines. At any rate I agree with SirBlake and Alcarin, even if Lego is confined to larger army builder sets due to the licensing agreement why not give us more of them? I want to believe this may be due to my wave two split theory. Why else would we get an army builder in the second Hobbit wave and not the second LotR wave, but the third LotR wave would seem to set us up perfectly for a (Gondor) army builder while it appears that reports of the third Hobbit wave won't have an army builder? The only real question then, would be why no army builder in the first Hobbit wave? I guess maybe one didn't fit as well? I find it hard to believe they couldn't of made a Goblin Town battle pack though with some goblins, orc hunters, maybe even a Warg and some rope bridge pieces top make the Goblin King Battle set more expansive. A couple of these army builders added on would make the set feel MUCH more like the movie with tons of bridges connected and hanging all over. Edited February 24, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
Alcarin Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Exactly Deathleech... i am really hoping your split wave theory is alive and kicking in by October! 2nd wave was 27$? 40$ 60$ 100$ So we can hope for 13-15$ 30$ 50$ 130$? And possibly even additional 1 in either 70$ or 40$ range? So that would perfectly fit for 30$ Gondor Battle pack 50$ Balrog 70$ Witch King 130$ Minas Tirith or even olifont possibly??? Or maybe 40$ Balrog and 50$ Witch king :D And for 15$ set we could get Denethor on Stewarts throne with Kings Throne and possibly Pippin in Gondor attire? (and hopefuly no Gandalf lol) Quote
SMC Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) even with the split wave theory it could still be the case that Lego saw the line was not doing as well as it hoped and cancelled the second half of the wave. But I really hope we get another wave edit: hey when did I get made a knight, I see 33 post ago, I'm observant Edited February 24, 2014 by SMC Quote
Deathleech Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 The second LotR wave had $13, 30, 60, and 100 sets (in US). That means if there is a third wave it should have a $20, 30-50, 70-80, and possible a 120-130. Obviously there might be some overlap if Lego had to add an additional set or two to fill out a wave (so it's 4 sets instead of 2-3). With the Hobbit wave we seem to be getting a $30 set in both the second and third wave if rumors are true. A $30 Gondor Army set and then the biggest set saved for a piece of Minas Tirith or Osgiliath you can add it on to doesn't seem that unlikely to me. Who knows what the other two sets could be though. Quote
Alcarin Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) The second LotR wave had $13, 30, 60, and 100 sets (in US). That means if there is a third wave it should have a $20, 30-50, 70-80, and possible a 120-130. Obviously there might be some overlap if Lego had to add an additional set or two to fill out a wave (so it's 4 sets instead of 2-3). With the Hobbit wave we seem to be getting a $30 set in both the second and third wave if rumors are true. A $30 Gondor Army set and then the biggest set saved for a piece of Minas Tirith or Osgiliath you can add it on to doesn't seem that unlikely to me. Who knows what the other two sets could be though. Is Dol Guldur ambush seriously 13$ in US? Its 27€ in Europe thats like 34$!!!! this cant be right or? Edited February 24, 2014 by Alcarin Quote
Deathleech Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Is Dol Guldur ambush seriously 13$ in US? Its 27€ in Europe thats like 34$!!!! this cant be right or? No, I was talking about the LotR waves. The Hobbit waves look to be these price points (wave 2 is blue, wave 3 in red): Galadriel and Witch King - $14.99 Dol Guldur Ambush - $19.99 Mirkwood Elf Army - $29.99 Lake-town add-on - $29.99 Lake-town Chase - $49.99 Bo5A - $59.99 Dol Guldur Battle - $69.99 The Lonely Mountain - $129.99 Quote
Alcarin Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 No, I was talking about the LotR waves. The Hobbit waves look to be these price points (wave 2 is blue, wave 3 in red): Galadriel and Witch King - $14.99 Dol Guldur Ambush - $19.99 Mirkwood Elf Army - $29.99 Lake-town add-on - $29.99 Lake-town Chase - $49.99 Bo5A - $59.99 Dol Guldur Battle - $69.99 The Lonely Mountain - $129.99 Oh nvm im sleepy... I just forgot and mixed them up... silly me lol! Sorry! Quote
Faefrost Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 Do you have a link to this? I know there has been tons of speculation about it, but I don't recall any Lego reps ever saying it point blank. Plus as SirBlake points out it's hard to wrap your head around because there is no current LotR action figures being released and there haven't been for years. You would THINK they would be much more lenient with a license like that than say Star Wars where Hasbro has the action figure license, is currently using it, and it's one of their main lines. At any rate I agree with SirBlake and Alcarin, even if Lego is confined to larger army builder sets due to the licensing agreement why not give us more of them? I want to believe this may be due to my wave two split theory. Why else would we get an army builder in the second Hobbit wave and not the second LotR wave, but the third LotR wave would seem to set us up perfectly for a (Gondor) army builder while it appears that reports of the third Hobbit wave won't have an army builder? The only real question then, would be why no army builder in the first Hobbit wave? I guess maybe one didn't fit as well? I find it hard to believe they couldn't of made a Goblin Town battle pack though with some goblins, orc hunters, maybe even a Warg and some rope bridge pieces top make the Goblin King Battle set more expansive. A couple of these army builders added on would make the set feel MUCH more like the movie with tons of bridges connected and hanging all over. I wish I remember where the statement was from. I believe it was a written interview from one of the designers or licensing people. Possibly Hispabrick or Brickjournal? It was awhile back. But it was very clear each licensor determines what defines the "construction toy license" for that particular license. And they very carefully define things like minimum piece count per fig, etc. it varies by IP owner. It will not matter if there is or is not an active action figure license outstanding. To WB and New Line that Action Figure license is still an IP product, that may be sold or activated tomorrow. Their IP lawyers will take steps to leave clear separation between it and other sub licenses such as construction, games, plush toys, etc. As for why they don't make more Battlepacks? Because they are hard to predict, at least as far as the Merchants are concerned. Some BP's blow out fast. Some sit as shelf warmers until clearanced out. No one wants too much exposure there. The Merchants want price points and named characters as a sales hook. The Army builders around here are not the typical retail customer. We will nicely pad sales when we take an interest in something, with multiple set purchases. But we are not something that drives their planning or sales projections. We don't really appear on the radar of the people who do the store purchasing. Quote
Mahtion Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 I think this information is accurate. Considering we got a $30 army builder in LOTR wave 1, missed one in Hobbit wave 1, then got one in Hobbit wave 2 and missed one in LOTR wave 2. Hobbit wave 3 won't have one but LOTR wave 3 will it seems likely. Quote
MKJoshA Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 So how do the polybags fit in the rules for minifigure-per-part ratio? Seems like they break all the rules... Quote
Faefrost Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 So how do the polybags fit in the rules for minifigure-per-part ratio? Seems like they break all the rules... Polybags are considered more Promotional or vendor exclusive items. Notice how you do not see most of them for sale at S@H? They are more their own special category, and probably fall specifically under the license as a marketing tool. I would speculate that there are clear limits on how many they can do per wave, and how or where they can be sold. TLG cannot simply convert them into something akin to a CMF line without it being specified in the license. In this regard LotR's may have lost out by being to early. After the Lego Movie and Simpsons CMF line, not to mention some of KreO and Megablok's licensed series, I would not be surprised to see more IP holders specifically wanting a CMF or Polybag line. Quote
bachamn Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 No, I was talking about the LotR waves. The Hobbit waves look to be these price points (wave 2 is blue, wave 3 in red): Galadriel and Witch King - $14.99 Dol Guldur Ambush - $19.99 Mirkwood Elf Army - $29.99 Lake-town add-on - $29.99 Lake-town Chase - $49.99 Bo5A - $59.99 Dol Guldur Battle - $69.99 The Lonely Mountain - $129.99 This was just the info I was looking for when I joined the forums. I'd seen the production #'s but no names. Thanks! In regards to other discussions, I'm also quite confused with the polybag/army builder set choices (or overall lack thereof). They have to know there is a demand for those figures from children and adult collectors alike. Army-builder sets with goblins or orcs would have been fantastic. Or even a polybag with a single generic human/orc/elf/dwarf/ instead of again using Gandalf, Legolas, or Frodo as they have. The Mirkwood Elf/Uruk Hai/Laketown Guard polybags were a much better use of this distribution method imo. Quote
SirBlake Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 The Mirkwood Elf/Uruk Hai/Laketown Guard polybags were a much better use of this distribution method imo. The shelves at my local TRU would agree with this statement. Quote
Deathleech Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 This is becoming a dead fourm. What do you expect when you don't get a new wave for almost a year, and very little info for over six months? It's always been this way though, it's slow until new info comes out. Then we get like 5 new pages a day for a week straight and then it all dies back down again and the cycle repeats. Quote
SMC Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 This is becoming a dead fourm. Its a forum for Future LotR Sets and we don't have any so............ Quote
coolguy2323 Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 What do you expect when you don't get a new wave for almost a year, and very little info for over six months? It's always been this way though, it's slow until new info comes out. Then we get like 5 new pages a day for a week straight and then it all dies back down again and the cycle repeats. And then it becomes impossible to keep up Quote
Blakstone Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The latest consumer catalog arrived today and there are no Lord of the Rings or Hobbit sets listed. By contrast Arkham Asylum is listed with the Super Heroes. I am starting to worry that I wanted too long to get the Orthanc. Quote
Deathleech Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 The latest consumer catalog arrived today and there are no Lord of the Rings or Hobbit sets listed. By contrast Arkham Asylum is listed with the Super Heroes. I am starting to worry that I wanted too long to get the Orthanc. I got it as well. I am not just worried about Orthanc, I am worried about the line as a whole now. Not having the LotR sets is fine, they were over 9 months old so I expected them not to be in there, but the Hobbit? They came out in December 2013, that's not even 4 months ago. Why on earth would Lego not have an advertisement for them unless sales were terrible? At this point I am not even worried about a third LotR wave, that seems totally unlikely, I am worried about the third Hobbit wave just making it to shelves before it get's cancelled. Quote
BrickBob Studpants Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 That sounds really weird Was it the US version of the regular Januar-June catalogue? The German version still includes the Hobbit and LOTR sets... (http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=537597&n=47 ) Quote
Ridge Montante Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Where do people get these catalogs from? Quote
Leo604 Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Probably Google or from browsing around other Lego-related sites. Quote
Blakstone Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I get mine in the mail every two months or so after signing up at Shop.LEGO.com. It might be a March - April but it is at home right now. It promotes the Martian Manhunter promo for this month and they have groupings where you buy an entire wave, you get double VIP points for them. Since we have confirmed the third wave of Hobbit sets later this year, I am not too concerned about them. We should still get them. However the lack of any Tolkein sets is distressing as it allows them to slip from the mind of casual fans. Granted they have a ton more Star Wars and Chima in the catalog. http://shop.lego.com/en-US/ByCatalog There is a Request a Catalog on this page. Though the one I received yesterday is not posted here yet. Edited March 5, 2014 by Blakstone Quote
Deathleech Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 It says it's the Spring 2014 catalog on the front. Like Blakstone points out, it has all the new sets. Simpsons House, new Star Wars, Chima, Super Heroes, etc. It also has the Mixels. Not a single advertisement for the Hobbit or LotR though, not even a single page like in the past few catalogs. Quote
.thumb.jpg.f411c80381c4eae09fd587e90d37e81b.jpg){kind=avatar}
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.