LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Faefrost]

As much as I want all of these sets to be a reality, I am not sure how many of these are actual sets which they will put into production. For example, look at Star Wars. We have seen pictures of a UCS Watto in one of these cases. There is no way they are releasing that. Some of these are just the designers own models and possible set ideas, not necessarily actual sets.

I really hope these are actual sets. What is the one at the top left? I can spot what looks like Shelob, Lothlorien, Treebeard, Gandalf Arrives, Orthanc, Helms Deep, Bag End(?), a Bag End prototype, and a few unidentifiable grey shapes. What are they? I hope we get these as sets!

I think top left is a prototype, either Orc Forge or Goblin King.

[SMC]

Lothlorien is the same as the one seen in the game so I think at some point it was meant to be a set, an odd choice if you ask me and nothing in that picture is from gondor. Maybe the were planning a long line maybe they still are. We dont know how Long the contract is, what it cost, how well it has sold although we know what we have seen, what they wanted the sales to be. Maybe the line will go on if they have it why not use it.

[RoboKnight]

Isn't this supposed to be in the liscenced theme forums instead of here?

Yeah! Been wondering too, but I guess they want to say* space or something.

*Edit: I mean save

Edited June 8, 2014 by RoboKnight

[SMC]

Yeah! Been wondering too, but I guess they want to say space or something.

bit late now, lets wait till its all over then move it

[Blakstone]

The Mods decided to put Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in Historical so the forum would continue to be lively. If you recall, Castle took a nap when the LotR sets first came out. Castle is also missing from the Summer 2014 catalog (only the Juniors Castle see is there).

If the Mods decide that LotR / Hobbit belong Licensed, they will move it.

Back on topic, LEGO designs many sets. Not all of them every make it into Production. But they must have been very proud to display them here. I think it is safe to say that LEGO planned on more sets. We just don't know if sells or a shifting movie schedule scuttled those plans.

[coolguy2323]

I still think that originally they had 2 big waves for LOTR and Hobbit. We got both big wave 1s. I think they split the second waves in two. The other half of last year's Hobbit wave is this year's wave. Unfortunately I think the second half of the second LOTR wave may have been dropped.

Maybe it was just delayed till next year. They may have planned for LOTR Wave 3 to be winter but the third Hobbit movie sets had to take that area since the film got pushed back.

[Master_Data]

Maybe it was just delayed till next year. They may have planned for LOTR Wave 3 to be winter but the third Hobbit movie sets had to take that area since the film got pushed back.

Agreed. From further studying of that book, it would that AUJ was actually a 2013 theme and DoS was a 2014 theme. With BotFA being a 2014 release and not a winter 2015 release, could this leave a slot in 2015 for LotR sets?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Master_Data

[Ardelon]

The thing is, didnt TLG know far enough in advance about the 3rd film release being pushed back for them to have released wave 3 of LotR in between (i.e. this summer)? Are their schedules so tight, or their contracts with retailers so inflexible?

[BrickBob Studpants]

@Ardelon: Exactly The new release date for TABA (now retitled Bo5A) was announced in February 2013 if I'm not mistaken, and that was when the public came to know that. I think the licensees learned about this quite a bit earlier, which should have given TLG even more time to prepare a potential third wave that unfortunately didn't came to be (at least as of now) Since it apparently takes roughly a year for sets to be produced, there should have been plenty of time, especially when considering the prototypes we've seen in that picture

Edited June 9, 2014 by Lego-Freak

[SMC]

but the lego movie might have played a part too as we got a lots around the time when we could have seen the 3rd wave of LOTR, there is still hope for a wave after the hobbit

[Darth Punk]

The Lego movie has had an obvious impact on TLG's operations this year. Not only in terms of production, including delays in winter wave, but also on shelf space. The movie sets near me take up a good deal of space leaving virtually no room for other lines. Placing another line in an already busy year with no direct ties doesn't necessarily make sense.

Next year has always seemed most likely the best time to release a third wave. The studio is going to be busy tieing the two trilogies together and we probably will see movie sets with all six movies. That is really the time to take advantage of a renewed interest in TLoR as some who missed it the first time will want to continue on from the hobbit. TLG is looking at the big picture and another wave of TLoR may not have any place.

I'm sure we will have a much better sense by the fall.

[SirBlake]

That is an interesting idea that I hadn't considered: movie sets taking position over other lines. I think the vacuum left when the movie line is gone could be our best opportunity for a third wave of LOTR. Fingers crossed.

[Faefrost]

The thing is, didnt TLG know far enough in advance about the 3rd film release being pushed back for them to have released wave 3 of LotR in between (i.e. this summer)? Are their schedules so tight, or their contracts with retailers so inflexible?

Actually no they didn't. TLG's production schedules and plans for Licenses often take 24 months. So 2 years from when it enters the chain to when it spits out. The problem is the last Hobbit movie has changed a few times within their production window. First from the unexpected third movie. Then the shifting of its original release date from Summer to Winter. The initial splitting of the movies and the planned summer release of the third were probably enough to knock a third LotR wave off the schedule in favor of back to back Hobbit waves. But when the Hobbit shifted it was probably a combination of not enough time to go back and ramp up a summer LotR wave, and honestly TLG being more than fed up with New Line and Jackson over all of the on the fly and last minute changes that they simply pushed back the Hobbit wave and left it at that.

Heck after the recent last minute title change I am amazed that TLG's director of licensing didn't hunt down PJ and kill him with his bare hands. Keep in mind that at the point the title change was announced Lego probably already had a warehouse packed with product or at least packaging materials labeled for "There and Back Again". There are always risks and complications when dealing with licenses from still in production not yet released movies. See Iron Man 3 as the best example. But PJ and the Middle Earth team are an order of magnitude worse for this sort of thing. I will not be surprised if TLG quietly ends the license just because at the end of the day all the back end problems are just not worth it. I'm sure what frustrates them even more is normally how good a partner WB is for this sort of thing. Case in point look how good or at least well matched to the movie the Man of Steel sets were?

[Robert_88]

Fortunately PJ can't change the LotR movies anymore ;) I think TLG would be happy to release and design sets from LotR movies but maybe not from the Hobbit.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Robert_88

[SMC]

Once the movies are out they won't have this problem but who knows what the plan although they have covered the hobbit well so that might be it maybe a big d2c but I can't think of what

[Faefrost]

The Lego movie has had an obvious impact on TLG's operations this year. Not only in terms of production, including delays in winter wave, but also on shelf space. The movie sets near me take up a good deal of space leaving virtually no room for other lines. Placing another line in an already busy year with no direct ties doesn't necessarily make sense.

Next year has always seemed most likely the best time to release a third wave. The studio is going to be busy tieing the two trilogies together and we probably will see movie sets with all six movies. That is really the time to take advantage of a renewed interest in TLoR as some who missed it the first time will want to continue on from the hobbit. TLG is looking at the big picture and another wave of TLoR may not have any place.

I'm sure we will have a much better sense by the fall.

We may yet get lucky. But most of this will depend on data that we will never really know. Such as how long and what the costs are for the licenses. But here is the bad part to consider. Movie licenses make huge money when they have a corresponding movie. When there is a tie in in effect and current they literally do an order of magnitude better than unlicensed stuff playing in a similar theme. But without the tie in movie or media the two types of property will tend to equalize. Without something external like a movie giving a push to Middle Earth and LotR it will typically sell about as well as an unlicensed Castle line. The only exceptions that we know of are Star Wars and Super Heroes. Both of which are more ingrained in the pop culture. And both of which do do a lot worse when there is not a corresponding media property backing them.

So the question becomes, after the last Middle Earth movies is done, is there a greater benefit or cost to Lego to release another LotR wave? Have they already paid for the license so may as well use it? Or does the license have a price per piece that would make simply releasing a new Castle line more attractive? Is there some other literary fantasy property waiting in the wings that they may be ramping up as a replacement? (Ok I'm betting we can rule out Game of Thrones and Walking Dead).

[SirBlake]

These are all good thoughts. I don't see another licensed fantasy property on the horizon, but IF the license is essentially paid for through 2015, I think they could still profit from even a tiny 2 or 3 set wave of LOTR if the sets are well chosen.

[SMC]

and there will be the blu ray release and then complete box set release and then an even more complete box set release so a 3rd wave would still have some support from media

[Mr. Cube]

"Fortunately PJ can't change the LotR movies anymore ;)"

George Lucas does not agree with this.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Mr. Cube

[Robert_88]

Nothing that affects Lego sets ;)

But you're right.

[bachamn]

But PJ and the Middle Earth team are an order of magnitude worse for this sort of thing. I will not be surprised if TLG quietly ends the license just because at the end of the day all the back end problems are just not worth it. I'm sure what frustrates them even more is normally how good a partner WB is for this sort of thing.

I get what you're saying here, but this is technically all speculation, right? I mean, we don't have any confirmation that they ever actually had any materials printed with the TaBA title that I'm aware of. Unless we have some sort of official production schedule, which i think it's clear we do not, it's hard to say with any certainty that the relationship with PJ is strained. Obviously there was a problem with the Wave 1, denoted by the "preview" sets, but wasn't that decision made relatively later into the process? Maybe that alone caused them to be more cautious when producing the product ASAP?

Is there some other literary fantasy property waiting in the wings that they may be ramping up as a replacement? (Ok I'm betting we can rule out Game of Thrones and Walking Dead).

GoT LEGO would be awesome, but yes that would never happen.Who wouldn't want a Hodor minifigure? :D

"Fortunately PJ can't change the LotR movies anymore ;)"

George Lucas does not agree with this.

gave me chills...

[Darth Punk]

We may yet get lucky. But most of this will depend on data that we will never really know. Such as how long and what the costs are for the licenses. But here is the bad part to consider. Movie licenses make huge money when they have a corresponding movie. When there is a tie in in effect and current they literally do an order of magnitude better than unlicensed stuff playing in a similar theme. But without the tie in movie or media the two types of property will tend to equalize. Without something external like a movie giving a push to Middle Earth and LotR it will typically sell about as well as an unlicensed Castle line. The only exceptions that we know of are Star Wars and Super Heroes. Both of which are more ingrained in the pop culture. And both of which do do a lot worse when there is not a corresponding media property backing them.

So the question becomes, after the last Middle Earth movies is done, is there a greater benefit or cost to Lego to release another LotR wave? Have they already paid for the license so may as well use it? Or does the license have a price per piece that would make simply releasing a new Castle line more attractive? Is there some other literary fantasy property waiting in the wings that they may be ramping up as a replacement? (Ok I'm betting we can rule out Game of Thrones and Walking Dead).

I've been blocking that out, lol. But I do relalize there is a high probability that the TLoR is done. I'm just trying to keep a positive attitude, otherwise known as self-delusion.

[bachamn]

TLoR is done

Is this supposed to be an acronym for The Lord of the Rings? What happened to "LotR"?

[Darth Punk]

Not officially no. LotR, LOTR, LR and L.R.(used by Tolkien) would be generally used acronyms. I've been using TLoR for 20+ years and have no idea where it comes from. Visually I've always found it more interesting. Just one of thoses things I guess.

[bachamn]

Gotcha; just threw me off since you capitalized the first "The" in the acronym and omitted the second one ;)