Eurobricks Mafia: Conclusion

[Piratedave84]

Thank you so much for hosting def; the setting was great and it got me really puzzled at several points, great game everyone!

Another point, on another topic, did anyone actual believe this game was anti-metagaming, or was it just scum who said so? I am always pro-metagaming, in regards to rules and to the actions of players. One point of this game was that people could call out other players on their behavior, and not have people complain that they were meta-gaming. They were playing the Eurobricks members, so it was all good! And players could have looked to my comments in the Heartlake conclusion thread, and got ideas about what I consider fair mechanics. It was all up to you.

I did say something like that; I think IO said something to the effect that the game was meant to teach us a lesson about meta-gaming and reading too much in past behaviour. I think I even discouraged (or tried to) people to do so ... then again my suspicion of Hinck on day 2 was entorely based on meta ...

Oh, and PirateDave, posting all those clues in thread before googling it for yourself, isn't a good idea. I was surprised to be the first to answer it 15-20 minutes after your post.

yeaaaaaaaah about that ... I got a LOT of flak in thread for that!!!! I posted my clues then was called out to do something at work, when I got back, it was too late. I said it in the deadboard already but I never thought you had been the one to solve the puzzle; my money was on Hinck!

[TrumpetKing]

Would someone please give links to the the scum and deadboards? Thanks!

[def]

I think in this case, the Deadboard will be lost to the sands of time... It was registration only.

[Dannylonglegs]

Oh, I forgot to say, Thanks Def, for hosting this awesome game! Even though I died early, I had a blast! It seems I was right about Shadows and the Witch role being the scum's and a few other little suspicions, so I guess it means I'm getting a bit better at playing Town. I forget, did we establish who won the puzzle yet?

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Darkdragon]

I think in this case, the Deadboard will be lost to the sands of time... It was registration only.

That's usually for the best.

[Cecilie]

Yes, I'm sorry about that- I've just seen you take down too many players. You always have strange targets when you have a power role, so when shooting in the dark I wanted to potentially take out someone who may trip me up.

I have strange targets? I'll just take that as a compliment . Maybe it's because I don't blatantly go for the typical metagame targets? And I was even a vanilla this game

Would people want to play this again, or was once enough?

I would love to play again

[Piratedave84]

Would people want to play this again, or was once enough?

I missed this earlier!

YES! I think replaying this game with different teams would be awesome!!

[Nightshroud99]

Would someone please give links to the the scum and deadboards? Thanks!

We just used messages so no writeboards for us.

[Tamamono]

Yeah, we used PMs this game. I sure hope Writeboard isn't going out of style, though. It's quite useful for making sure nobody catches you talking to your scummos.

And yes, def, thank you for the wonderful game! I had a great time!

[Scouty]

Oh, yeah, I'd love to play this game again! Just call me the day killer protector next time ._.

Oh, I forgot to say, Thanks Def, for hosting this awesome game! Even though I died early, I had a blast! It seems I was right about Shadows and the Witch role being the scum's and a few other little suspicions, so I guess it means I'm getting a bit better at playing Town. I forget, did we establish who won the puzzle yet?

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Oh, thanks to your death, my role was pretty much confirmed ^.^ . Thanks!

[Hinckley]

I forgot to say that this was the first game I ever played where I was lynched as Town. Also, it was the most fun I've had in a while because I wasn't trying to lead the Town. It was fun to just have an Action and kind of sit back. Although I didn't really sit back, but whatevs...

Fun.

[Rick]

I forget, did we establish who won the puzzle yet?

Did you read the last couple of posts before yours?

Also, it was the most fun I've had in a while because I wasn't trying to lead the Town. It was fun to just have an Action and kind of sit back. Although I didn't really sit back, but whatevs...

Fun.

I'd be suspicious of you if you did sit back.

[fhomess]

I'm glad I wasn't a part of it as I had some other stuff going on, but this one was fun to watch. I was surprised at how often people questioned the setup after Def specifically told people what it would be. I really think this game just went really well for scum. A lot of luck fell their way... and Shadows wonders why he's often killed early.

TrumpetKing - don't be too hard on yourself with your vig kill targets. No vig will ever be as bad as I was in Excalibur 2.0 and you did get two scum toward the end. The only real problem I saw was that you killed on Night 0 when it was not compulsory (at least I had that going for me).

I confess that when Tammo was speaking in l33t, I couldn't help but think that the scum had intentionally done that to him so it would be easier for him to be ignored by the town.

I wanted more Banana Sphinx! Curse you chickens who didn't want to play his games.

On the topic of vanilla's... obviously, vanilla's who just sit back and wait for things to come from the PR's are not helping town at all. I sometimes think that the approach to playing vanilla should be similar to the approach when playing scum. In both cases, you want to look like a useful townie with a PR. As scum, it's so that you can blend in and have some explanation for your actions. As vanilla, it's so that the scum might be more inclined to kill you than a real town PR. In a game like this one, where the conversions were restricted to vanilla's, it would make it easier for scum to fail on their conversion attempt.

[JimBee]

I confess that when Tammo was speaking in l33t, I couldn't help but think that the scum had intentionally done that to him so it would be easier for him to be ignored by the town.

Except the cursing scum didn't know us, so that was not the intention.

[Pandora]

As vanilla, it's so that the scum might be more inclined to kill you than a real town PR.

Unfortunately people often believe that surviving to the end is an achievement and are unwilling to sacrifice themselves for that end.

To survive to the end through cunning and artful manoeuvring is an achievement, but to do so by sitting back and doing nothing is most definitely not.

Vanillas are able to play, and should play, fearlessly. If you play hard and lose you should feel better than by not playing at all and winning.

[fhomess]

Except the cursing scum didn't know us, so that was not the intention.

Yes, I realize that's not what actually happened, it just looked like a possibility as Tammo started to appear scummy to me the day prior. I was surprised the scum took so long to connect. Given how well things were going earlier in the game, it seemed like their actions were aligning fairly well. Although, the lack of a scum kill early may have also made it harder for scum to get a read on the other scum team. I don't know, it's very hard to know how I would've reacted had I been involved.

Vanillas are able to play, and should play, fearlessly. If you play hard and lose you should feel better than by not playing at all and winning.

Some of the stronger players play more fearlessly no matter what their role or alignment is. That's part of what makes it hard to read them.

[def]

On the attitude vanillas should have: agree, agree, agree!

[Darkdragon]

Unfortunately people often believe that surviving to the end is an achievement and are unwilling to sacrifice themselves for that end.

To survive to the end through cunning and artful manoeuvring is an achievement, but to do so by sitting back and doing nothing is most definitely not.

Vanillas are able to play, and should play, fearlessly. If you play hard and lose you should feel better than by not playing at all and winning.

Totally agree with all of this. Staying quiet and just trying to survive is no way for a team player to play - whether scum or town. I see it much more often with vanilla townies than other roles, but even have seen scum team members do this to the point that they don't even post/engage on the writeboard/pm.

The game is teams, no matter your role. It's up to everyone to do everything they can to work for the team and skating by silently hoping your team wins and you survive is the wrong way to do it.

[Big Cam]

BigCam, I wish you had told me about Alopex first instead of going public with it. I was in contact with the vig that day and we could easily have taken him out without risking the scum teams getting together, leaving the lynch to other suspicions that the scum can't be too sure about.

I wish you would have told me that you were in contact with the Vig, but we had already kind of parted ways. Live and learn I guess.

Big Cam, you should take some credit for helping the scum unite, and Dragonator too! The approach of the game had to be a little different, and simply announcing people's allegiance in thread was not the best way to approach it. It was a new game, so I would have thought the townies would have discussed this a little in thread.

I take most of the credit for loosing the game, which I know is a bad thing. My problem was I was playing a regular mafia game. I read the rules at the beginning but the idea that the 2 scum teams needed to "KNOW" who each other is, was never in my mind. A very big tactical error on my part.

I think the point was, since the Scum needed to find each other, confirming that someone killed someone else was what the Town wanted to avoid. Kind of like me outing Scouty when I was sure he was Scum. Not the way to do it in this game. But, live and learn. We could see it clearly from the dead. Funny how death makes it all clear. Scouty, same with confirming that you knew who the blocker was after Alopex claimed. That made it even more clear to the Scum that he was Scummy, I would imagine. Probably gave them a bit more confidence in contacting each other. Again, it's easy to be an armchair quarterback. I failed at being subtle myself, didn't I?

I completely agree, but unfortunately I wasn't thinking about that, I was just excited that I had helpful info and in my head, I was just saying "Yes, we are going to get someone". I didn't care if I died, I thought I was doing the greater good, which I would have been had this been a regular game. "Doh"

Oh, I wanted to say this to you Cam: while in this setup you allowed the scum to win, in a normal setup you would've been a huge asset to the town. I've played watcher or some variant of it at least three times, and I've never been really effective with it. If the scum teams didn't have to unite, you would've killed a lot of scum with your strategy. So don't feel discouraged.

I'm not discouraged, just mad at myself for rushing to be helpful instead of being more, lets say crafty. You learn something with every game.

Also, I have to commend Big Cam for delivering the single best line of the entire game. "Well shit."

I'm a bit of a lyricist.

Oh, and we knew that the watcher was Big Cam as soon as Hinck/Scouty quoted the PMs. Theres.nothing.like.Cams.phone.posts.

OMG, that pissed me off so bad, at Scouty for literally sharing everything I said word for word, and at Hinck for posting them. It makes you not want to trust anyone, and low and behold, they were both Townies.

Cam, I wanted to second what JimB said... If this were a traditional game, your play would have been great, and the scum would have made you a priority to take out, I think.

Except the part where you said that you thought the game was trick. I did one of these The whole point of the game for me was not to have some tricks. I wanted the winners and losers to have done so on clear terms, and not because of over complicated game mechanics.

I know, I'm a legend in another time.

As for the trick thing, that was bad math on my part. I had done some math about how many scum there were or how many I thought there were, and how many players were left, and I was off. Also at that very moment, I actually believed that it was a possibility. I changed my mind after getting some good info that confirmed a kill. I just wasn't throwing the possibility away completely.

I'd play again.

Me too

The final vignette, such as it is, is up.

I suxxorsz

It was just a horribly mean joking way to refer to Big Cam's potty curse.

He knows it's all fun and games, I only mean the horrible things I say when I direct them at Hinck, just like he only means the ones he says to me. It's how we roll, as the kids would say.

Oh yeah, I've been around Shadows enough to know what he meant. Were you explaining for someone? Did someone get offended for me?

Unfortunately people often believe that surviving to the end is an achievement and are unwilling to sacrifice themselves for that end.

To survive to the end through cunning and artful manoeuvring is an achievement, but to do so by sitting back and doing nothing is most definitely not.

Vanillas are able to play, and should play, fearlessly. If you play hard and lose you should feel better than by not playing at all and winning.

I agree, I hate lasting to the end and then loosing. I am always willing to die, if people will just believe me when I am telling the truth, I'll die for that. I always take it as if your team wins, you win. Being a martyr is ok in mafia.

That's what I was trying to do in this game, outing myself and giving good info, even if it killed me at night. Little did I know, I was playing wrong this time.

[Scouty]

I wish you would have told me that you were in contact with the Vig, but we had already kind of parted ways. Live and learn I guess.

Well, the vig didn't really want his identity or anything spread around too much, so I basically told nobody else I was in contact with him. But, yeah, we didn't talk much after you were blocked, which is regrettable.

OMG, that pissed me off so bad, at Scouty for literally sharing everything I said word for word, and at Hinck for posting them. It makes you not want to trust anyone, and low and behold, they were both Townies.

Yeah, sorry about that Pm sharing went rampant in this game. Though it wasn't my intention for it to be shared in public . I thought posting the entire thing would prevent him from telling everybody everything. So, so, so wrong.

[Hinckley]

Yeah, sorry about that Pm sharing went rampant in this game. Though it wasn't my intention for it to be shared in public . I thought posting the entire thing would prevent him from telling everybody everything. So, so, so wrong.

I never would have if your roleclaim hadn't sounded made up on the spot.

[Scouty]

I never would have if your roleclaim hadn't sounded made up on the spot.

Yes, I do love making random, pulled together roles out of nowhere in the vain attempt to keep things secret. That's toooooootallly how I would've done it if I were scum. No, picking something boring like protector or something typical would've not been enough, I had to make up such an oddly phrased role. I'm sooo out of the box like that. I'm a mafia hipster, you know

Well, at least, out of that, I found myself to be more trusted among the town members and didn't really get killed until endgame, which was surprising.

This is interesting. Of all the games I've played, my only power roles have really been protector or a scum killer (excluding others where roles were switched around). Nyarrr or protect? I've just noticed this I'll hush up now

[Shadows]

Yes, I do love making random, pulled together roles out of nowhere in the vain attempt to keep things secret. That's toooooootallly how I would've done it if I were scum. No, picking something boring like protector or something typical would've not been enough, I had to make up such an oddly phrased role. I'm sooo out of the box like that. I'm a mafia hipster, you know

Protip: FBI Agent.

Which brings up something I never got to address. I really was unconvertable, just like I said.

I had initially thought that might be a good clue for the other half of the team to find me. I had hoped they would either try to convert me and get a funny message or have some form of investigation to use first. Sadly, I quickly realised that I've claimed it so many times it was pointless. I guess things don't always go the way I plan them after all, huh?

I honestly think that if it had been someone else claiming it, someone who hadn't claimed it so many times before, they would have been lynched that day. In all truthfulness, only scum or a SK should be able to make that claim with absolute certainty unless a townie has been specifically told that they can't be converted. We've had cases where PRs could be converted to scum, some even kept their powers, so that would not have been a safe assumption at all, plus it would be a terrible claim for a townie who basically just announced "kill me." When I didn't die after that, it should have set up a few flags, but there was so much going on that it slipped right by.

[def]

Well, some of you will be happy to know I'm going to try this one more time, this year, depending on the hosting schedule. It will be 90% the same game, but all roles will be listed in the sign up thread. It will make lying about roles more difficult, but ideally, every player will know the balance up front, and player frustration will be 100% based on play, and not on a perception of unfair mechanics. Consider it an 'open' game.

[Zepher]

I'm already hosting a game in May where all the roles are posted in the thread, so do it after me so I can look original!