The Legend of Zelda Project finally reaches 10,000 supporters

[Faefrost]

Arguably Link's hat by itself though has nothing special that sets it apart from the hundreds you'd find at a Renaissance festival. Add in pointy ears and blond hair and it's a different situation, but by itself it has nothing to distinguish it's Link exclusive.

But these two projects aren't the same, sure they both focus on Zelda but what they propose in set designs are very different. The fact is that they told us that just because that project didn't pass didn't mean another similar project wouldn't. So until Lego gives us a direct pronouncement that they will make no new molds I will let myself believe that there is a possibility that they might make one and that this set may pass the review.

It was actually confirmed in an interview recently that Link was directly inspired by Disney's version of C.

Fair enough, keep your happy thought. It's the only way you'll ever fly. (sorry couldn't resist the Peter Pan reference).

But just keep this in the back of your head

From Lego's rejection of the Mingles project;

"The Legend of Zelda project shows broad support among gaming enthusiasts . This project has provided great inspiration and concept work for what could be a very nice product.

However, multiple new element moulds would be required to create the minifigures for such a product, and the expense of these moulds means that the Legend of Zelda project does not pass the LEGO Review on the basis of the business case."

And from Ragaru's description of his project on Lego CuuSoo;

http://lego.cuusoo.c...deas/view/14886

The author's proposed preferred solution is 2 molds. And according to the text he can't see a good solution that doesn't require at least one. He is gambling that after they make it they can find a use for it in other Themes such as Castle. So yes, while somewhat different than the previous project, it runs right smack into the same specific issue that caused the problem last time. The cost of the elements to make the minifigs. Might Lego decide "what the heck" take a gamble and spend this kind of money on a CuuSoo project? Sure! There's always a chance. Albeit a disturbingly small chance. At the end of the day it will be difficult to get past the costs vs revenues equation.

The best hope that Zelda fans have is that Lego will take their interest to heart and seek a full blown, internally developed, retail product, Zelda theme. A full wave of sets that can amortize any development costs and molds. The thing working against that is quite simply that Zelda is a video game series. Outside of MegaBloks Halo line most toy makers have not had a great deal of success in this market. The main reason is getting toy set development cycles to synch with video game popularity surges is extremely difficult and unpredictable. The average video game life cycle is less than 6 months. (OK granted Nintendo does better in this regard). Whereas it take 24+ months to bring a new Lego theme to market. This does not make for a great target window. And then factor in the potential customer base and what the conversion to actual customers needs to be. the best selling Zelda game was Ocarina of Time at 7.6 million sold. Making it one of the all time best selling video games ever. But compare that to other licensed Lego properties. LotR has 150 million readers. 50 million just since the movies. Harry Potter is much the same. So the conversion ratio of fan to Lego customer can be much lower to pull off a success. Meaning that top end toy companies often do not view video game IP as having the best potential return on investment. They are learning otherwise. Minecraft certainly has helped. But just don't be surprised if Lego isn't there yet.

I've seen them pulled apart. With Lego, everything can be detached one way or another. Even the hats on Woody, Jessie, and Pete can come off.

Don't start with that, you know they do. Need I remind you of the Infected Haus that were painted individually by hand? :P

To say they don't have the technology in this day in age is insulting to the company itself.

-Omi

It's not a matter of can they do it, or do they have the technology to do it. It is a matter of the impact that the cost of doing so would have on the set or project,a nd the impact that cost has on the sets viability as a product. Think of it this way;

If {Cost of special item (mold, handpainting, glue, etc)} / {expected initial production and sales run of set} > 10% of the {final retail price of the set}, then chances are it is unviable and will not pass a revue. There may be a few exceptions to this, primarily sets whose central focus is that special item, such as The Rancor Pit or the larger Dino sets, but as a general rule I would bet it is a fairly good guess for a regular set or a CuuSoo project.

Let's play with the math a little more. We know that the total sales for the best Zelda title is 7.6 million. They have had a lot of games, most selling between 2 and 5 million. But the numbers have not been trending consistently up. Lets make a back of the napkin guess and say based off the known numbers that the installed Zelda fan base is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million. (peak with a 30% shift over time. Not unreasonable).

Now we know that CuuSoo generally plans on initial production runs of about 10k. I believe that was the initial minecraft run. Given CuuSoo interest and chatter and growth of the overall brand, 20k initial run is probably a reasonable guess, and would reflect a 2% conversion of estimated fan to purchaser. That's about the same as we have observed in other licensed properties and pretty normal for this sort of licensed product.

Mold and tooling costs will generally run anywhere from just under $100k to well over $250k. Now for a small poduct run like this, that means if the tooling is $80k, it adds $4 per set. A little steep but maybe doable. Higher than they generally would want to be, but less than 10% of the retail price. If the tooling and specialty costs are $200k, then its $10 per set sold, just for that part. Which rapibly eats into the value of the product, and therefore its ability to be sold.

And before anyone brings up the CMF's and all the new tooling they get. Keep in mind the CMF line is probably one of TLG's highest margin products. They pack $180 to $240 USD of retail potential into roughly a cubic foot of retail space, and a very compact shipping profile. With a cost to consumer somewhere between 60 and 80 cents per part.

I'm not saying that Lego absolutely will not make this set. It's just when looking at it from a business review perspective, it seems kinda a real long shot.

Here endeth the lesson.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Faefrost

[BrickG]

http://lego.cuusoo.c...deas/view/32525

This OTHER Zelda project is starting to shoot up after places like Kotaku made stories on it.

So once the second Zelda project is declined this third one should help make it more clear to Lego that THEY HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!

However, unlike their first words on the matter where they didn't say it was impossible to make new elements for a Cuusoo project (just said they didn't want to) at this point they're saying...

"While we cannot create new specific LEGO elements within the operational framework of LEGO CUUSOO, we will consider this concept in earnest in the Spring 2013 LEGO Review period."

I think that KILLS any Zelda 100% sadly. Now matter how many Zelda projects pass, they now say they CANNOT make new specific LEGO elements. And since Zelda's would be so specialized it's just... not happening... :(

Edited February 28, 2013 by BrickG

[just2good]

http://lego.cuusoo.c...deas/view/32525

This OTHER Zelda project is starting to shoot up after places like Kotaku made stories on it.

It deserves it! It literally has the best presentation I've ever seen on a Cuusoo project, and THAT ARTWORK.

Edited February 28, 2013 by just2good

[AndyC]

"While we cannot create new specific LEGO elements within the operational framework of LEGO CUUSOO, we will consider this concept in earnest in the Spring 2013 LEGO Review period."

I think that KILLS any Zelda 100% sadly. Now matter how many Zelda projects pass, they now say they CANNOT make new specific LEGO elements. And since Zelda's would be so specialized it's just... not happening... :(

I don't know why anybody is even remotely surprised by this, it's pretty much what the Cuusoo team have been saying since day one. New parts are extremely unlikely to get made through Cuusoo, new parts that are effectively going to be exclusive to a one-off set are just never going to be financially viable.

Now a more inventive builder might actually try and work within that. A LoZ statuette of Link perhaps? Or maybe some Miniland scale Zelda model. Either of which could potentially pull in much of the same fanbase and yet be well within what it possible within the Cuusoo framework.

[BrickG]

I don't know why anybody is even remotely surprised by this, it's pretty much what the Cuusoo team have been saying since day one. New parts are extremely unlikely to get made through Cuusoo, new parts that are effectively going to be exclusive to a one-off set are just never going to be financially viable.

Now a more inventive builder might actually try and work within that. A LoZ statuette of Link perhaps? Or maybe some Miniland scale Zelda model. Either of which could potentially pull in much of the same fanbase and yet be well within what it possible within the Cuusoo framework.

They originally said it was unlikely and prohibitive. Now they're saying flat out it's not going to happen. Slight upgrade IMO.

[Faefrost]

They originally said it was unlikely and prohibitive. Now they're saying flat out it's not going to happen. Slight upgrade IMO.

That's because everyone is playing Internet rules lawyers and carefully parsing every word they have posted in order to make their argument that Lego can and must make what they want. Lego's actual intent and meaning has been pretty clear from the start, if you understand what you are reading.

- new unique elements. Things tied to the specific project, such as weapons or new licensed character elements are pretty much dead on arrival. They will not make new parts exclusively for CuuSoo sets. A new general use part , such as a construction element, may be suggested as part of a CuuSoo project, but it greatly magnifies the chances of failure at review.

[Aanchir]

http://lego.cuusoo.c...deas/view/32525

This OTHER Zelda project is starting to shoot up after places like Kotaku made stories on it.

So once the second Zelda project is declined this third one should help make it more clear to Lego that THEY HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER!

However, unlike their first words on the matter where they didn't say it was impossible to make new elements for a Cuusoo project (just said they didn't want to) at this point they're saying...

"While we cannot create new specific LEGO elements within the operational framework of LEGO CUUSOO, we will consider this concept in earnest in the Spring 2013 LEGO Review period."

I think that KILLS any Zelda 100% sadly. Now matter how many Zelda projects pass, they now say they CANNOT make new specific LEGO elements. And since Zelda's would be so specialized it's just... not happening... :(

That doesn't kill ANY Zelda project. To be honest, a Zelda project doesn't need to be minifigure-based. A lot of people's licensed proposals are constraining themselves to the kind of design typical of licensed themes, rather than the sculptural sorts of designs we've seen in previous Cuusoo products. Consider this Master Sword & Pedestal, which is a quite well-realized concept.

And if sculptures aren't your thing, one of the Zelda projects I'm supporting is a brilliant concept that doesn't use any new molds whatsoever: The Legend of Zelda Heroica! Truly the Heroica style of gameplay gameplay is a perfect fit for The Legend of Zelda's traditional dungeon-crawler gameplay. It would need specialized printing, but TLG has demonstrated they're capable of that with the Minecraft set.

Overall, I think anyone who gives up on an entire franchise because they feel it depends on new molds isn't thinking outside the box. It's entirely possible that if one of these projects does make it, TLG will reject it on the grounds of it being a poor business case or the company not being able to secure a license, and then it might be time to call it quits on Zelda proposals. But otherwise, there's still plenty of potential ideas floating around that could sidestep LEGO Cuusoo's "no new molds" stipulation.

[BrickG]

That doesn't kill ANY Zelda project. To be honest, a Zelda project doesn't need to be minifigure-based. A lot of people's licensed proposals are constraining themselves to the kind of design typical of licensed themes, rather than the sculptural sorts of designs we've seen in previous Cuusoo products. Consider this Master Sword & Pedestal, which is a quite well-realized concept.

And if sculptures aren't your thing, one of the Zelda projects I'm supporting is a brilliant concept that doesn't use any new molds whatsoever: The Legend of Zelda Heroica! Truly the Heroica style of gameplay gameplay is a perfect fit for The Legend of Zelda's traditional dungeon-crawler gameplay. It would need specialized printing, but TLG has demonstrated they're capable of that with the Minecraft set.

Overall, I think anyone who gives up on an entire franchise because they feel it depends on new molds isn't thinking outside the box. It's entirely possible that if one of these projects does make it, TLG will reject it on the grounds of it being a poor business case or the company not being able to secure a license, and then it might be time to call it quits on Zelda proposals. But otherwise, there's still plenty of potential ideas floating around that could sidestep LEGO Cuusoo's "no new molds" stipulation.

Like in the other thread I disagree.

My interest goes from 100% to 0% the second minifigures aren't in there for Zelda sets.

As a minifigure guy I love minifigures. I've bought some sets that didn't have any, but for Zelda I would practically demand they be included.

I buy franchises for the minifigures honestly (as often they have sucky builds). I've got a bookcase not filled with books but the marvel, dc, star wars, ninja turtles and a few other franchise minifigures.

I buy "awesome builds" outside of franchises. Like the Space Shuttle and if the Curiosity Rover wins I'll probably buy that.

I just feel franchises in my opinion :P require minifigures so they can all stand by my other franchises! I can't match up heroica or a built master sword with my minifigure d00ds! They wouldn't match. ;)

So long story short. Minifigures! Minifigures! Minifigures!

I think a lot of people feel the same way (in a generalized manner) as the Heroica and Master Sword modle don't seem to be gathering nearly as much interest and justly so IMO no offense. The iconic minifigure is very popular. I love the thing.

I think Zelda fits minifigures perfectly. I think minecraft was an exception because making minifigures out of the main character (whose name I forget) would be really odd...

[Meatman]

I highly doubt ANY Zelda project will ever get to 10,000 supports(in a timely fashion) without mini figures. That Sword/Pedestal is a nice idea, but the likelihood of it getting 10k is going to be tough. It is all about minifigures with Lego fans now. I have actually met people at Toys R Us that don't even buy Lego sets, they just collect the minifigures.

[Almaras22]

Series 11 collectable minifigures has a Christmas elf with this hat/ear piece. Anyone else think that it may be an indication as to the potential outcome for the Zelda proposal? Sure the hat points forward instead of back, but I'd still take a set with this piece over no set any day!

[just2good]

Series 11 collectable minifigures has a Christmas elf with this hat/ear piece. Anyone else think that it may be an indication as to the potential outcome for the Zelda proposal? Sure the hat points forward instead of back, but I'd still take a set with this piece over no set any day!

I don't think the ears will look weird with the hat backwards, though, so that's good! I doubt it means an outcome for the current Zelda proposal, but this would look great on the Iron Knuckle Encounter proposal!

Edited July 19, 2013 by just2good

[SteampunkDoc]

Oh, cool piece.

You know, this may solve some of Lego's problems.

If said part was made FOR a Zelda set, then it may be locked into the contract and therefore be unusable outside of any Zelda sets. (Like the Darth Vader helmet or something.)

But now, Lego can say "Well, we've already got the part, but we could use it on Link as well."

Thus spreading the cost out into a theme that commonly gets new parts anyway, as well as keeping it from getting locked into a contract.

That's a win-win in my book, and I'm taking it as a very good sign.

Of course, I could just be wrong. But hopefully not.

[BrickG]

That part is lame and in no way would work for Link. It's just too forced. Link's hat never points forward. The hair would likely be part of the mold. Nintendo is incredibly protective of their franchises. They simply wouldn't allow them to even USE something so inaccurate.

[Fives]

I've been keeping an eye on the Iron Knuckle project for a while. I've never been a huge Zelda fan, but I would definitely buy that set if it were made into a set.

[Aanchir]

The elf hat/ears could maybe work for Link, but keep in mind that kind of thing is up to Nintendo as much as it is up to the LEGO Group. Often, companies will have very specific rules for how they want their characters depicted, to the extent that they will create "style guides" laying out those rules and providing example images of the characters as the company expects them to appear. If Nintendo were to feel that the use of that mold would be inauthentic, they could easily veto such a thing.

[Omicron]

Link's hat never points forward.

Minish Cap

-Omi

[BrickG]

Minish Cap

-Omi

Only with the bird head sticking out (when it's not it goes towards the back like normal). And Nintendo wouldn't do Minish cap which is not exactly the most memorable or popular Zelda :P or current.

I would say it's chances are not improved because of Minish Cap.