Hello there EB,

Superheroes has been a coveted line from many FOLs over the years, so when LEGO finally secured the license, the AFOLs expected great things of the upcoming sets. This line has the potential to be a all-time best seller, if they do the sets properly which they generally have done so far. However, there are many improvements which I will go through...

NOTE: This is not like the continuity thread. This is more about what would have made the sets better but not based on cinematic material.

1. Catcycle- This was surely a must for all LEGO Batman fans due to it's low price and use of 2 (arguably) exclusive figures. For those who didn't know, back in the original Batman line, they released another version of this set which was probably better. In the first, Batman received his own dragster plus Catwoman had printing (?) on her cycle. I felt in the new line, they could maybe have included more cat-like features on the bike and I thought that the 'jetpack' was a lame excuse for a vehicle but I sort of like the wing piece. 8/10

2. Two-Face Chase- A mediocre set in my honest opinion. It did have a well nice Two-Face though, however unorthodox the new colour scheme was. The Batmobile was meh, and the car was OK as well but the bank just seemed like a small bonus so that they could lift the price tag. Batman was nice as always, and this was a more collectible suit which was nice. The goons were typically LEGO- which isn't always bad- plus the car had a really cool feature on the back so plus points for that. 6-7/10

3- Batwing over Gotham- This seemed an utter re-hash of the old set but with an updated Joker and way better goon (which I still don't have grr). The helicopter is aesthetically pleasing as is the Batwing, but they both seem a little too plain- too generic. Plus for the printed bomb piece and nice usage of the ladder but points have to be taken off for no return of the *BANG* gun and the Batwing just isn't that cool in my opinion. I knew from the start that I wouldn't pick this set up and I stuck to that. 6-7/10

4. The Funhouse- This was definitely the set of the wave for me but I'll be harsh on it as there is always room for improvement. The set included 2 exclusives and two figures you could brand 'rare'. Robin is a Marmite minifigure but personally love him! Unlike me, many said the first minifigure was too 'gay' which was not a good choice of words. The first was clearly inspired by the 60's show in which Robin was depicted effeminate. LEGO went down a darker path for the new fig which is sort of like a crossover of Robin and Nightwing. The Joker and Harley are wonderful and LEGO did a real good job of updating them without losing their charm. I actually thought that the Riddler should NOT have been included as he was too much of a minor character for the set. I fell he should have gotten his own set where he could be the 'headline act' so to speak. I firmly believe he will appear again (please no Bat-Tank though LEGO, what the heck ids that thing?) The set is stickered all over which deserves minus points but the features are absolutely immense! Every thing works great except that 'thing' in the middle which just rocks a bit. The bike is meh but the figures balance that out so all in all... 9/10

5. The Batcave- Another that I din't bother getting. The Bane is fab and Poison Ivy is fine (not brilliant but mainly 'cause I don't like the character). Again, Bane's drill seemed to be included to bulk the price up. The whole 'cave' seems somewhat j u n i o r i s e d and It really could have done with an Alfred seeing as the old one is too much fo anybodies wallet. Looking at the old one, it is just so much better in it's detail and it has a much darker edge. The holding cell is a nice inclusion but not essential and the stickers are OK as well. The Bat-gear is nothing special or new for that matter. Why could they not have included a WetWired style Tumbler? Plus points for the bike which is significantly better than the Funhouse one- much less bulky and a lot more aero-dynamic. But man do I hate those sit-on bikes. There are definitely some nice parts usages but it's not a great set IMO. It's OK but it's a disappointing flagship set but not the worst produced. 7-8/10 NOTE: I gave it higher than it deserved because it was the flagship set.

Please argue comment and stay tuned for the Marvel edition!

While these “improvements” above mostly come off as complaints, I can understand why you and many others (In part myself) are disappointed with the newest DC Batman line. To me the biggest changes, or reasons for “improvements”, are because of style and scale—both of which clearly change the ascetic of the lines, which is what is fostering the complaints.

So why do we feel the new line needs improvement? Well lets look at the differences between the lines in terms of style and scale.

The original Batman line was clearly and heavily based on Batman: The Animated Series; so much so that many of the figures are direct representations of the characters. But is this a good thing? Absolutely. Not only is B:TAS an amazing show (Also my favorite show, so you know bonus points), but it has the perfect tone for Batman which translated well in Lego; ergo dark and gloomy. All of the original line used many dark bricks, and it featured a more rough and tough looking wave than what we have now. Chief in point, the line introduced Tommy Guns and Uzis. (Now did the rough and tough/dark deco style lead to low sales? I’m not sure)

In terms of scale, the original Batman line was impressive. At least on the Batman side, as opposed to some of the villains, the scale of his vehicles were enormous (I’m looking at you Batwing!), and in being so they really gave you the feeling you got your money worth—which I feel is a major problem/complaint felt across all lines currently. Everything in the builds had a purpose for being there, and I can’t think of any set where there was just “wasted bricks”. This added to the overall scale of vehicles, and with the edgy tone and great figures formed an amazing but too short lived line.

Now compared to the new DC Batman line, the two appear as night and day. First, I don’t think the new line is bad; it’s just different—and so different that it’s really like comparing apples to oranges with the first line. So why is the new line so different in the first place? Style. Rather than being based off some kick-megablocks show from the 90’s, Lego dug deeper into the Batman mythos and came back with representations of classic comics (Ergo: Orange & Purple Two-Face). It appears that this change defiantly brings in a more “kid friendly” aspect most clearly evident in the swap of actual guns to ADU ones, and secondly in the overall color scheme which is far brighter (Bright Blue is the new Black I guess). Rather than just “Black on Black with some gold maybe” from the first line the new line features “Black + Rainbows” and appears much lighter in general. Could the change be because of the lack of sales of the heavy dark first wave, with Lego realizing a more colorful line would sell better?

With the style addressed, the other major difference between the lines is scale. Basically, the new sets which are just remakes of the old ones are generally looked upon as failed sets—in large part because they just don’t look as good or as big (Ergo, Style and Scale problems). The Batcave is a prime example of this, where the original was so good and large, the newer “kid friendly” junior version appears like a really, really bad set. While their pricing is only a bit off, it’s surprising on how the style and scale changed the opinions of two sets which depict the same thing.

On an important note, I do need to say that I do like both lines. I was only able to get one set of the original line (Two-Face Chase), and I’ve gotten almost all of the sets of the newest one (Plus hunting down minifigures from the first line). They are both great lines but for different reasons, and their differences are almost so great that it’s hard to compare without being biased. With that, I’ll leave you with some questions I thought of.

Is the new line successful? Yes.

Is the new line successful in the eyes of AFOLs? Eh…

Was the old line successful with AFOLs? Yes.

Was the old line successful? Eh…

Should be we grateful and happy for the return of Batman despite changes? Yes.

Edited February 14, 201312 yr by Captain Nemo

Hi

Don't get me wrong, I love Batman. I really think LEGO gave it a good go with this first wave, maybe I wrote the original post wrong? I wouldn't have bought nearly all the sets in this line if I didn't like them would I? I just think there could be some IMPROVEMENTS. Never once did I say that the line was bad. Just individual parts. I frequently follow you on Flickr so I know that you know what you're talking about and respect you but I wasn't complaining.

As much hate as some of the sets have received, I'd say TLG has hit it out of the ballpark with this new Super Heroes theme. Although that is coming from a minifigure collector. I don't care for the playsets as they are. I typically just use the extra pieces in MOCs and display the figures, so short of giving me a figure I want with a pile of useful bricks, they give me these sets. Either way, I'm happy with it. But I could always use more villains/heroes in the Batman universe.

I don't have any complaints of the minifigs, just some design work needs to be improved.

The subject of LEGO sets + improvements is like beating a dead horse. Not that it's bad to point out stuff, but literally EVERY set has numerous things that could improve them. Maybe that's a big downside to being AFOLs, we notice all the good and bad in sets.

The subject of LEGO sets + improvements is like beating a dead horse. Not that it's bad to point out stuff, but literally EVERY set has numerous things that could improve them. Maybe that's a big downside to being AFOLs, we notice all the good and bad in sets.

Perhaps, but I think the super hero lines are a special case. The sets seem to be add-ons to packs of minifigs. That said, I generally like the sets, but the really isn't a super hero set yet, imo that has hit it out of the park (aside from having great minifigs), aside from the Quinjet, which I feel is nearly flawless. I love the Joker Funhouse, especially all the play features, but it really isn't a solid or significant build. Arkham Asylum was a blast to build, with some very detailed elements, but could've used at least a little more depth (at least another wall, to give it some substance when looking at it from any angle, aside from straight-on).

The IM3 sets, imo, have really taken the above sentiment to a new level. I find this unfortunate. What, from those sets (again, aside from the minifigs), give any indication you are playing/building something from Marvel?

Then, check out the Lone Ranger sets, the LotR/Hobbit sets, even many of the SW sets. They are gorgeous, have dynamic builds, give a feeling of depth and variety, etc. There are also more expensive and expansive sets in the other lines. They also include pretty great minifigs. The result is that when setting the builds up, one will feel immersed in that particular license. I just don't see that happening with IM3 stuff (a boat, a rehashed, downgraded helicopter, a strange fire-trike and a couple walls--oh boy).

The current Batman wave(s) do a better job, but not by huge margin, imo. To reiterate, I feel the best improvements that could be made for Batman and all the super hero lines, would be to concentrate on the scenery of what makes that particular universe feel unique. Sure, the vehicles could have greater scale, but that doesn't really bother me as much as it seems to get others. For instance, I love the new Batman vehicles. Their compact nature is fine, both for storage and dusplay. They are also very stable builds, allowing for a lot of handling/playing...which is fun.

I will be doing a Marvel edition but good points Repeter!

Not that it's bad to point out stuff, but literally EVERY set has numerous things that could improve them.

I would put it as 'NO set can accomodate every AFOL's preferences', so I'm wary of people presenting their individual desires as objective 'improvements'. It's the difference between "LEGO didn't do what I wanted" and "LEGO didn't do something they could and should have done".

I don't think the OP or anyone else did this explicitly, but sometimes I think people get the two perspectives confused.

I was aiming for option 2 but not sure if it was obvious or not. :/

I really don´t like most of the builds because nearly everything feels so watered down. They only used parts for what was necessary, not a brick more. The Batmobile is probably the best example: 2006 was long and sleek, 2012 was short and blocky. This strategy was a good idea IMO with things like the Batwing which just seemed ludicrously huge and has the same play value in both sizes, or the Catcycle Chase, where Batman really doesn´t need whatever he had for a vehicle because it was basically a stupider looking bike so a jetpack makes it a bit more original and different from other Batman sets. But on the other side it ruins thing like the Batmobile, Tumbler and THE Bat, that have to have a certain size and turned out much uglier and bare bones. As if a kid made them himself.

That they are trying to make the figures different is a good idea in theory but in execution just causes Epic Fails in cases like Mr.Freeze who is based on the movie Batman & Robin (BAT CREDIT CARD) and Riddlers only change being the question mark melon in grey when the green suit and green melon THAT HE ACTUALLY WORE SOMETIMES are a much more obvious choice. Those mistakes seem petty but when you think about it: Catwoman, Harley, Bane, Penguin are nearly identical to their old figs which only leaves Ivy who got a good alternative, Scarecrow who really needed to be less cartoony looking and Two-Face whose other colorscheme isn´t as popular. I leave out Joker because I don´t like his fig but I have no idea why. Something about his weird expressions or the vest.

It ends up as a mediocre line when it could be much more. If the first Batman failed because of his darker tone and LEGO wants it to be lighter then why not just take a hero other than Batman? The Justice League would be perfect with its many classic and iconic heroes and villains. It seems stupid to concentrate nearly exclusively on the darkest hero of the bunch.

Also LEGO should learn that vehicles are really the wrong thing to make the majority content in a Superhero line. Many characters don´t need vehicles so they should concentrate mainly on scenery. Bank and museum robberies, secret labs, the hideouts of heroes and villains. We don´t need every kind of transportation in black yellow with a Bat-surname. Also a good idea would be the superpowers. Mr. Freeze comes only with an ice cage for one fig and a lightsaber blade as ray. Why not more ice bricks to coat (part) of a vehicle included. Some things that are coated with snow (white hydrants and streetlights) or if you are not Mr. Freeze something that was destroyed because of acid, lasers, superstrength or plants?

Edited February 14, 201312 yr by Navy Trooper Fenson

This is more about what would have made the sets better but not based on cinematic material.

I'm not really sure what you mean there.

I felt in the new line, they could maybe have included more cat-like features on the bike and I thought that the 'jetpack' was a lame excuse for a vehicle but I sort of like the wing piece.

I think I would have appreciated the bike having bit more of a cat theme, but I guess I appreciate that the piece as it exists isn't limited to Cat-Woman's use. I have to disagree that the jetpack is a lame excuse for a vehicle. I think it's neat in and of itself, but I also like that Bat-Man, for once, doesn't come with a big old vehicle.

The Batmobile was meh, and the car was OK as well

I feel the opposite. I like the Batmobile, but i think the color scheme on the tow truck is a bit silly.

the bank just seemed like a small bonus so that they could lift the price tag.

I love the bank. I ended up disassembling it because I already have a bank for my city and i had need of some of the parts, but I'm seriously considering "rebuilding" it as the facade for a shop or something.

Batwing over Gotham- This seemed an utter re-hash of the old set

I don't see that as a bad thing. I was in my dark ages when the first Batman theme was running, so I appreciate a chance at this kind of a set. That goes double, I'm sure, for actual kids who might want these sets.

Again, Bane's drill seemed to be included to bulk the price up.

I agree that the drill didn't necessarily seem to "belong," though I guess it's maybe necessary to justify a bad guy getting into the Batcave for Batman to fight. I'd have rather seen that "piece budget" allocated to bulking up the cave itself.

Plus points for the bike which is significantly better than the Funhouse one- much less bulky and a lot more aero-dynamic. But man do I hate those sit-on bikes.

I would subtract points for the bike. I, too, hate this style.

That they are trying to make the figures different is a good idea in theory but in execution just causes Epic Fails in cases like Mr.Freeze who is based on the movie Batman & Robin (BAT CREDIT CARD) and Riddlers only change being the question mark melon in grey when the green suit and green melon THAT HE ACTUALLY WORE SOMETIMES are a much more obvious choice. Those mistakes seem petty but when you think about it: Catwoman, Harley, Bane, Penguin are nearly identical to their old figs which only leaves Ivy who got a good alternative, Scarecrow who really needed to be less cartoony looking and Two-Face whose other colorscheme isn´t as popular. I leave out Joker because I don´t like his fig but I have no idea why. Something about his weird expressions or the vest.

Mr. Freeze is inspired by his appearnce in Arkham City. Riddler is based on the Grant Morrison run where he had a grey hat and a shepard hook for a cane. Scarecrow is fine for me, and the others were already based on comic appearnces that have really changed in design. Well Harley and Ivy were based on Batman: TAS, so yeah. Joker i like too, and Two-Face's original design in the comics isn't a fan favorite, but it colorful and kid friendly.

I like the new comic book colorful theme, people need to remember the Lego is mainly designed and apealed to children, not adults.

No, I'd have to say Freeze was from B and R. Luke, of course everything that I say is going to be a personal opinion. I felt that the Batwing set should have had more variety.

No, I'd have to say Freeze was from B and R. Luke, of course everything that I say is going to be a personal opinion. I felt that the Batwing set should have had more variety.

The lego freeze doesn't look a thing like thay horrible version of him. Why do you think so, just cuz he doesn't have goggles and a serious face, cuz i can think of a couple other freezes in the comics that ar goggleless and angry.

Ya I am pretty sure daniel is right on this one Looks just like the LEGO version to me.

The lego freeze doesn't look a thing like thay horrible version of him. Why do you think so, just cuz he doesn't have goggles and a serious face, cuz i can think of a couple other freezes in the comics that ar goggleless and angry.

no need to get angry, I'll admit I was wrong. :)

I feel the best improvements that could be made for Batman and all the super hero lines, would be to concentrate on the scenery of what makes that particular universe feel unique.

Also LEGO should learn that vehicles are really the wrong thing to make the majority content in a Superhero line. Many characters don´t need vehicles so they should concentrate mainly on scenery. Bank and museum robberies, secret labs, the hideouts of heroes and villains. We don´t need every kind of transportation in black yellow with a Bat-surname. Also a good idea would be the superpowers. Mr. Freeze comes only with an ice cage for one fig and a lightsaber blade as ray. Why not more ice bricks to coat (part) of a vehicle included. Some things that are coated with snow (white hydrants and streetlights) or if you are not Mr. Freeze something that was destroyed because of acid, lasers, superstrength or plants?

Great minds, thinking alike! For real, when one contemplates using more scenery as a build's basis, so many cool set ideas come to mind.

Luke, of course everything that I say is going to be a personal opinion.

As were my responses. It looks like we agree about as much as we disagree on these sets.

I felt that the Batwing set should have had more variety.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying the Batwing itself should have had more variety to its build or that the set should have had a different variety of vehicles?

Regarding Mr. Freeze, I kind of like his new body and the Atlantis style helmet, but the old version's head looks so much better to me.

I don't have the Funhouse yet, so I don't have a Riddler and haven't paid too much attention to his overall look, but I dig the bowler hat.

^ Each to their own I suppose. I just would have preferred the Batwing set to have included maybe a different vehicle for Bats or even a different villain altogether. I do however realize that since they were updating the classic sets so they needed a new Batwing.

I think the Batwing and the Batmobile are way superior than the ones from the older sets. These were based off the 1989 movie so I like the likeness of them.

Perhaps, but I think the super hero lines are a special case. The sets seem to be add-ons to packs of minifigs. That said, I generally like the sets, but the really isn't a super hero set yet, imo that has hit it out of the park (aside from having great minifigs), aside from the Quinjet, which I feel is nearly flawless. I love the Joker Funhouse, especially all the play features, but it really isn't a solid or significant build. Arkham Asylum was a blast to build, with some very detailed elements, but could've used at least a little more depth (at least another wall, to give it some substance when looking at it from any angle, aside from straight-on).

The IM3 sets, imo, have really taken the above sentiment to a new level. I find this unfortunate. What, from those sets (again, aside from the minifigs), give any indication you are playing/building something from Marvel?

Then, check out the Lone Ranger sets, the LotR/Hobbit sets, even many of the SW sets. They are gorgeous, have dynamic builds, give a feeling of depth and variety, etc. There are also more expensive and expansive sets in the other lines. They also include pretty great minifigs. The result is that when setting the builds up, one will feel immersed in that particular license. I just don't see that happening with IM3 stuff (a boat, a rehashed, downgraded helicopter, a strange fire-trike and a couple walls--oh boy).

The current Batman wave(s) do a better job, but not by huge margin, imo. To reiterate, I feel the best improvements that could be made for Batman and all the super hero lines, would be to concentrate on the scenery of what makes that particular universe feel unique. Sure, the vehicles could have greater scale, but that doesn't really bother me as much as it seems to get others. For instance, I love the new Batman vehicles. Their compact nature is fine, both for storage and dusplay. They are also very stable builds, allowing for a lot of handling/playing...which is fun.

Good point. The builds overall aren't that great, but as many have said, the main draw of this theme are the figs. So, the sets themselves are basically parts packs. I admit, there hasn't been any memorable builds that I can remember off hand, 6869 Quinjet Aerial Battle was the most substantial and complete build. It wasn't really memorable though. For example, 10225 R2-D2, albeit UCS, was such a great and fun build, watching him take shape brick by brick.

Hopefully as this theme progresses, they'll put some more oomph in there for us AFOLs.

Navy Trooper- I'd be willing to bet they went/started with Batman, even with the darker content is because TLG knew he would sell. With the huge success of Nolan trilogy, it's pretty much a given that Batman would sell like crazy. I don't think the majority of the general public that would buy LEGO even knows who JL is. But, this is all speculation on my part.

I still don't know what happened in the Batman 1.

2013 Update:

1. Arctic Freeze- Still haven't got this yet but I seem like one of the minority who like this set. Yes, Freeze doesn't have his goggles which he should do but get over it. He still looks BEAST. Aquaman is a joke, not even a good Superhero so there isn't even any way of improving him but the star of the set is Batman of course. I collect as many suits as possible and I've got to have this at some point. It's a shame that the boat doesn't include white parts and he doesn't have a white batarang but it's not the end of the world. The new ice pieces are nice so for £20 quid it's worthwhile. Despite the pros, I'm only giving it a 6/7-10 because it's more of a parts pack with a nice new suit rather than anything substantial to display.

2. Bane Chase- I was jumping at the first pictures of this but once the reviews leaked, I realised how poorly designed it had been. The Tumbler is downright awful but I sort of like the Bat so it's OK. Again, the minifigures, Bane in particular, steal the show with a lovely TDKR suit and a long-awaited Gordon minifigure. The Tumbler really is a disappointment and I wish LEGO had gone down the route of a WetWired tumbler which is infinitely better. I never liked the 'Bat' in the movie so I wasn't all that bothered about it in LEGO but I suppose it's a worthy addition if I buy it, I'll probably display it. A note about me is that I only display the best and keep the rest complete in storage. Batman looks good but I prefer the 2008 version which I kept to this day. Gordon is great but easy enough to customise without the set but Bane is legendary. I'm not sure why his mask is olive but he's still amazing. I'll end up modding the Tumbler when I get it to be honest. It's that bad. I'm glad the Bat has two minifig capacity unlike other vehicles from the line. I still wish there was a Heath Ledger minifigure or a set from that bank robbery from the beginning of DK. So all in all, a disappointing set I must say. I don't want to spend hundreds on sets just for the minifigs. I am not keen on the idea of shelling out just for parts packs but I'm starting to feel that's all the line is with some obvious exceptions.

EXTRA: Lex Luthor mech- I like this and I still need it. Luthor's mech looks like an improvement on the Exo-Force mechs which was never LEGO'S STRONG SUIT imo. I think that WW and Superman are both well-designed if not the most exciting heroes ever. I am not, nor have ever been keen on Superman. He's too perfect and I've always thought Lex was a weak villain. Not a scratch on the Batman villains who I struggle to believe were created by the same company. Moving on, those tubes are tremendous as is the kryptonite gun but technically, this is ANOTHER vehicle which I'm tired of. The Man of Steel sets are too plain in my opinion, nothing awesome though I'll get the small one for Zod and new styled Superman. I have the Superman fig but not WW yet which I should probably change. If MOS is really good, I may reconsider but you can expect a MOS update soon enough. I'm holding out for better pictures. There aren't any real improvements with this set though, even though it's not jaw-dropping. 8.5/10- nothing is ever getting ten in my books.

Again, thanks for reading and I look forward to some more comments.

what parts of the tumbler are you going to mod TT? and if you want to see the tumbler in black check this out

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79157