Piratedave84 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 SNIP Questions? Comments? Concerns? Votes? Unvotes? Hum... This is an interesting turn ... Good grief, I have flashbacks from a dream called "EB mafia" where Jonathan was like "vote for such.... Wait no... Here's a development vote for person B .... NOOOO, dont vote for either" arghh You do bring up some good points though but your quotes seem a bit overly "sanitized IMO" Also why not vote for Jonathan then? [/size] I don't know what "mark-up" means in this context, SNIP Your font size was considerably bigger than the default EB size!
Peanuts Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 You are making some good points. As Bristol pointed out, if you were scum, why not just lie and avoid suspection? I really feel like lynching you will be the best, though, because I feel like there will just be a lot more confusion tomorrow if we don't lynch one of the two trackers, and quite frankly, I don't think the other one is coming up any time soon. I pointed something out? I haven't been talking for hours! Anyway, I'm not sure I got everything, but we seem to have two tracker claims (either that, or Neutral Thief Girl has lied to us). If we really got two tracker claims, we should lynch one of them, and Spanish Waiter Guy has already revealed himself. What I find strange is, that no other jewel thief has come up so far. If there really are any, why shouldn't they talk to her? It helps them organize, and Neutral Thief Girl's strategy would work out for them in my opinion. Also, another major flaw in her claim is, that she seems to be able to steal the diamond from every scum member (according to herself). I'm not a physics genius, but wouldn't that imply that each scum member carries the jewel? I don't really trust her so far, and if she was lying, it's possible that she brought up her own tracker in order to defend herself. That said, I'm not going to vote for Spanish Waiter Guy before another jewel thief comes up. I won't vote for Crazy Weird Number Girl either right now, because I don't want to end the day prematurely, when there's so much left to talk about (and so much rum left to drink! Island Day forever!). I don't think Stupid Theory Guy is scum, no scum would do what he did, in my opinion. Lynching the neutral is never a bad idea either, but I don't like to let go of Spanish Waiter Guy before we know wheter or not Neutral Thief Girl has said the truth about there being other thiefs.
CMP Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 You do bring up some good points though but your quotes seem a bit overly "sanitized IMO" Okay...what, you want me to add dirty stuff to the quotes? Those are straight from the PM conversation, save for where the bit where Jonathan mentions why he thought I had a role.
The Legonater Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 For the moment, I'm inclined to believe Pierre. Mary still feels more scummy either way. I'm keeping my vote.
TrumpetKing Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I pointed something out? I haven't been talking for hours! I must have confused you with Stacy. I'm bad with names, plus this "two tracker nonsense is pretty irritating and confusing.
Piratedave84 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Okay...what, you want me to add dirty stuff to the quotes? Those are straight from the PM conversation, save for where the bit where Jonathan mentions why he thought I had a role. Frankly I skimmed your reply at first reading something like "bla bla bla lies lies lies" but then after I posted I actually read the story ... It's believeable and I am enclined to return to my original vote Unvote: Pierre (CallMePie) Vote: Alice (Rumblesteike)
Rumble Strike Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I'm also still happy to keep my vote on Mary. Pierre sounds reasonable from the tone of the PMs, and he had the opportunity to lie a few times, and didn't.
Captain Genaro Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 At this point I hadn't claimed yet. He's handing me a good one on a silver platter, wouldn't a scum want to go with the role Jonathan thinks he had? If you didn't know about the thiefs, then you might have thought that Jonathan was setting you up. If you are a neutral thief, you might have thought Jonathan was some scum tracker who was trying to eliminate you. Regardless of that, I believe you. Your story seems to add up and I it doesn't make me think "scum." I''ll keep my vote with Mary. What I find strange is, that no other jewel thief has come up so far. If there really are any, why shouldn't they talk to her? It helps them organize, and Neutral Thief Girl's strategy would work out for them in my opinion. Perhaps they don't trust Barbara either. Perhaps they think that Barbara is trying to hunt them out to eliminate them. Perhaps there are no other neutrals and Barbara told us this story to make us think that neutrals (such as herself) cannot kill. That could keep us from believing that she killed Scott, which brings me to my next point. There is still the issue of Scott's death. As far as we know, only Barbara and Pierre targeted Scott so one of them killed Scott. If someone really did track Barbara, it would be helpful to if we know who they are.
Peanuts Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 There is still the issue of Scott's death. As far as we know, only Barbara and Pierre targeted Scott so one of them killed Scott. If someone really did track Barbara, it would be helpful to if we know who they are. Didn't Stupid Theory Guy say it had been three people targetting Engi Guy, or did he just bring up teh possibility? Anyway, it's not a far stretch to blame the neutral, nor one of the two people who claimed tracker, nor someone third. I'm not sure if I want to know Thief Girl's contact, right now, the scum may already know enough. On the other hand, it would be great to know if that contact really exists, because it's hard to believe we really have two trackers.
TheBoyWonder Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 So, you're Scummy. How's that working for ya? I'm not scum. Give me something that I can actually answer and Ill answer. Who do you suspect? Diane is the first one that springs to mind. Jordan seems to be flailing, at least to me. I've played Scum alongside I'm before, (Jedi) and it seems similar to his style there. And, as my final suspicion, Richard (ADHOH). He seems to be tunneled on Lynching me, and slightly desperate to my view. You escaped a lynch by a narrow margin. The vigilante should kill you, you know. Getting the second highest votes and people thinking they'd learn something by seeing your affiliation, you should prepare for waking up dead, sorry to say. Unfortunately, you are right. But are you sure we have a Vig? No, but with this many players, I assume we do. True, but It doesn't always work that way. This seemed a bit weird to me, this was when we stopped conversing. Then, Today, I got this. If you're a Townie, are you a useful Townie?? At the moment, no, but I am striving to be better. Do you have a Night Action? That's what I meant. No unfortunately. The bits in bold is what I view the most important, I ask you to consider this, as when I flip town, this may be of use. Thank you for your consideration.
Piratedave84 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Frankly I skimmed your reply at first reading something like "bla bla bla lies lies lies" but then after I posted I actually read the story ... It's believeable and I am enclined to return to my original vote Unvote: Pierre (CallMePie) Vote: Alice (Rumblesteike) What I meant here was: Vote: Alice (Rumblestrike) SNIP There is still the issue of Scott's death. As far as we know, only Barbara and Pierre targeted Scott so one of them killed Scott. If someone really did track Barbara, it would be helpful to if we know who they are. It is true that we lost sight of this; was it not said though that 3 people targetted Scott, Barbara, Pierre and ? Based on what you are saying though we should be lynching either Barbara or Pierre, right? then whu not vote for one of them?
Sandy Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 If someone really did track Barbara, it would be helpful to if we know who they are. Haven't we had enough roleclaims for one day, already? I agree that it would be helpful, but I'm sure we'll find it out sooner or later. This day is nearly ending, we need to focus on getting a conviction, because that's the only way we can ever hope to catch the scum.
Bob Posted February 18, 2013 Author Posted February 18, 2013 Vote Count: Mary / TheBoyWonder: 11 (Captain Genaro, ADHO15, The Legonater, Rumble Strike, Scubacarrot, Hinckley, Ferrik, badboytje88, Rufus, TrumpetKing67, Sandy) Alice / Rumble Strike: 3 (Nightshroud99, Palathadric, Piratedave84 ) Pierre / CallMePie: 2 (Capt. Redblade, Dannylonglegs) With 21 players, a majority of 11 votes is needed for a lynch. The day will not end when a majority is reached. You are not mandated to vote.
Hinckley Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Those are the quotes from our PMs minus the quotes about targeting Scott. I'll post those later. What I don't understand, Pierre, is why you went silent with me and offered no further defense seeing what was said about you in thread. You laid back and basically said nothing. Furthermore, if people believe Pierre, why aren't we focusing on Barbara and her supposed tracker? Mary, I'm trying to discern if you're worth saving. If you're just a vanilla Townie, it's worth lynching you to clear up the idea that I'm trying to distract everyone from lynching you. If you have a Night Action though, I don't want to see you lynched.
CMP Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Those are the quotes from our PMs minus the quotes about targeting Scott. I'll post those later. I'll post them now. Who did you track? CM, so forgive me being nervous telling you about my role earlier. Your initial message scared the crap out of me. He didn't target anyone, which leads me to believe he was vanilla. You also targeted Cornelius? Yes. Why? Why? Nobody had given me any particular indication they might've had a night action, it was pretty much a shot in the dark. Why not somebody who is more suspicious, like The Boy Wonder or Rumble Strike? Well, I assumed they would probably get lynched pretty quickly. Generally the first thing I do with an informative role is find someone I'd be able to trust. If CM didn't target anyone, he was almost sure to be a vanilla, thus I'd be able to get into contact with him and be able to trust him. Obviously I had good reason to be nervous, it led to you outing me in public. What I don't understand, Pierre, is why you went silent with me and offered no further defense seeing what was said about you in thread. You laid back and basically said nothing. I considered it. When people refuse to listen to hard information because they think you're being mean to them, it's a good sign we're going to lose. We? You think you're Town now? Then I figured it wasn't worth bothering trying. And before people start jumping on it, yes, I was pretty amazed a lot more people weren't asking for my name. I know a lot of you find Jonathan fishy for some reason, something else I don't understand, but questions are what to lead to answers in games like these.
Hinckley Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 No. We continued talking after that and it was still light-hearted. Why so quick to back down? Refusing to "take the role on a silver platter" of neutral jewel thief doesn't seem like a positive alternative to Scum killer. Based on your lack of defense until now, I still think you're lying. It's not like you didn't have plenty of warning I was going to reveal you.
Piratedave84 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Thomas did say that either Barbara or Pierre had to have killed Scott but yet he has voted for Mary. Why? We still have a few hours to discuss the lynch and our suspicions so let's do that!! I dont get why so many people have voiced suspicions over ither players and yet have voted for Mary ... Are we still on the whole "I forgot my number" deal because frankly in the face of the Jonathan-Barbara-Pierre-mystery tracker business, forgetting your number or acting lost is not really a big deal ...
CMP Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 No. We continued talking after that and it was still light-hearted. Why so quick to back down? Refusing to "take the role on a silver platter" of neutral jewel thief doesn't seem like a positive alternative to Scum killer. Based on your lack of defense until now, I still think you're lying. It's not like you didn't have plenty of warning I was going to reveal you. The way I see it, I might have just saved you from even further suspicion in doing that. How would it look for you if I successfully defended myself in private, and then a majority of people asked for my name. What would you say? "Oh, he's defended himself well enough in private. Back to other suspects." Show of hands, how many people would find that suspicious, when considering how much people seem to think he's deflecting suspicion from Mary? It might've kept a role from being revealed, but you'd lose even more credibility for it. Not to mention, you looked to me like you were twisting my words a little in public, I wanted to defend myself against that in public. How isn't being neutral a good alternative to being a scum killer? Neutral aren't necessarily bad. Scum are. I know it was light-hearted. Here was my last message. Yes, I'm having trouble believing that you're Town. Sorry if that was an arrogant way of putting it. You understand why I think you're Scummy, right? Yeah. My role is unfortunate, my choice of target was poor, and I have a tendency to claim whenever I'm told it'll help the town even when I have the choice not to. I just elaborated on that exact reasoning in public, and people see it as a reasonable defense. Do you know how much more difficult it is to defend yourself against the accuser in private than it is in public? Easy, to the point where you still think I'm lying. I don't kid myself for a minute any defense I could've made in private would've prevented you from outing me anyway. You're reasonable, but stubborn as all hell.
Hinckley Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I'm a reasonable guy...with an investigator and investigated advisor. Why wouldn't I have seen the truth in private? Why do you say your role is unfortunate? Tracker is only Scummy if you're targeting a strong player with no reason and there's another tracker claim out there. If I were you I'd be indignantly demanding the identity of the other tracker who sees results. If you're Town, why aren't you concerned about that? Why isn't anybody concerned about that? Shouldn't Barbara and her wacky tracker worthy of some scrutiny now on top of all the other weirdness? Not to mention, I don't mind dying to prove my point. And nobody seemed too perturbed that I wasn't revealing you. You seem more like you were sitting back waiting for the storm to pass rather than proactively trying to fight for the Town.
CMP Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I'm a reasonable guy...with an investigator and investigated advisor. Why wouldn't I have seen the truth in private? Why do you say your role is unfortunate? Tracker is only Scummy if you're targeting a strong player with no reason and there's another tracker claim out there. If I were you I'd be indignantly demanding the identity of the other tracker who sees results. If you're Town, why aren't you concerned about that? Why isn't anybody concerned about that? Shouldn't Barbara and her wacky tracker worthy of some scrutiny now on top of all the other weirdness? Generally I give it time after I defend myself to bring up suspicion on anyone else, else I be accused of trying to throw suspicion off me. And sometimes that's not the best approach. Barbara claims this tracker has some sort of weird modifier, so it's not out of the realm of reason that both of us can exist and be town. And like Stacy says, I've had enough role outing for one day. There's a good chance I'm dead tomorrow, so if this other guy's identity is out in the open, then he's probably dead soon too. I'm suspicious of him too, but not to that point.
Sandy Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 If I were you I'd be indignantly demanding the identity of the other tracker who sees results. If you're Town, why aren't you concerned about that?Why isn't anybody concerned about that? Shouldn't Barbara and her wacky tracker worthy of some scrutiny now on top of all the other weirdness? What would revealing the other Tracker today accomplish? Just more "he said, she said" bickering, in my opinion, and to top it off we might not even get a conviction. There's only so little daylight left, after all (I for one am heading to bed now). There's been so much confusion and so many twists today that I say we have to focus, give the situation some time, let people gather their thoughts and return to this issue tomorrow.
Hinckley Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 There may be less than 24 hours but there's still plenty of time left. some people will be dead by the time they've had a chance to think about it.
def Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Is the neutral-thief really an investigative role? The way I see this is that the first steal perfomed would yes in fact reveal a scum but subsequent steals would not amount to anything especially if the neutral-thieves are working together. This of course is all assuming that 1) the role is real 2) there are in fact more than one neutral-thief. What happens after the diamond was stolen from the scum? Does the scum win condition include being in possession of the diamond? this last question would also imply that the scum have another "role"; the thief which would in turn yield an investigative ability seeing that every time they would re-steal the diamond they would have targeted a neutral player which if this happens a few times would then means they could easily identify the menbers of the town and focus on killing them rather than "loose" kills on neutral entity which as said before would prove to be more help to scum then town, This setup, assuming that everything I wrote is true, would mean we are up against a scum team and a group of not-town-helping neutrals ... WTF is this is the setup, we are ducked! The scum win condition clearly does not, according to the rules: To win the game, the Innocents must vote or kill off all the Thieves, while the Thieves need to outnumber the Innocents. If they have special win conditions on top of that, well, that might be a broken game for scum, and town would have a massive advantage. Simply by juggling the diamond around (however it is done), town could prevent scum from winning. Hopefully that isn't the case, for the sake of complainers after the game. As for the usefulness of my role, I clearly told the person who blabbed to Jonathan and the tracker I talked to that my usefulness was limited. On early nights, I could sort of clear town, but the chance of my accuracy would go down every day, as the chance of another thief having succeeded would increase. Which is another reason why I want other thieves to contact me. None have, so there might not even be any. I was told there may be others. Thomas did say that either Barbara or Pierre had to have killed Scott but yet he has voted for Mary. Why? We still have a few hours to discuss the lynch and our suspicions so let's do that!! I dont get why so many people have voiced suspicions over ither players and yet have voted for Mary ... Are we still on the whole "I forgot my number" deal because frankly in the face of the Jonathan-Barbara-Pierre-mystery tracker business, forgetting your number or acting lost is not really a big deal ... Well, I admitted to targeting Scott to the person I was talking to the moment I got my night results. And had insinuated he might be the day before. That seems to be an incredibly foolish move if I were actually a killer of any kind, don't you think? And my tracker is likely Town, since I think they would simply have killed me tonight, rather than wanting to work with me if they knew I had a night action and wasn't on their team. For Pierre, I don't know. It's plausible he cracked and made something up, but he could just as well be investigated tonight. I think we're best to keep it up with Mary. Since the day won't end early if I vote, here I go: Vote: Mary (BoyWonder)
Dannylonglegs Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Huh, well this is an interesting turn of events. I should have refreshed before I cast my vote last. I personally would like some closure to the tracker matter, but Pierre's side of the story sounds quite different from and more reasonable than how Johnathan presented it. I think it would still be best to target one of the trackers for the lynch, as it would probably lead to more clues, but as my previous vote implies, I still think that much can be learned from lynching Mary, and there's not much chance in a popular movement towards Lynching Pierre. If she turns up scum, then I'm almost positive Johnathan's scum too, along with the "investigator." If not, then maybe the Trackers deserve more focus then we've given them. There's not much of a point to me Unvoting Pierre, so I won't. I'm still suspicious of him. I certainly think that Pierre should be investigated tonight though, which'll save us much time tomorrow.
Palathadric Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 A townie, a neutral, and a killer walk into the engine room. This sounds more like the opening to a bad joke as opposed to what happened. Considering how early we are in the game with so many targets, it seems odd that three people would randomly target one person who aroused little suspicion. How often do three people all target the same guy on the first night? Maybe I'm wrong and it happens more often that I suspect. I know this does sound odd. Pierre and Babs' targetting of Murdoch and his death on the same day seems too odd to be coincidental. Is it really plausible that he was targeted by no less than three people on the same night and Night One at that? Babs, it seems odd that you would target Murdoch when there did seem a whole list of scummier-looking people whom you could have stolen your diamond from. I'm kinda thinking either you or Pierre are lying here and I'm suspecting you more than him.
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