LDD 4.3.6 bugs

[Superkalle]

Part 87817 won't attach to Part 11270. even though I have then attaching in real life. Here is a picture for reference

When you attach it in real life, does it slide on effortlessly, or do you have to force/press it in? Looking in LDD, it does seem the back of the head would collide with the helmet.

In the attahced pic, I tried to arrange/align the head with the helmet and view from the underside and it looks very, very tight.

[Takanuinuva]

When you attach it in real life, does it slide on effortlessly, or do you have to force/press it in? Looking in LDD, it does seem the back of the head would collide with the helmet.

In the attahced pic, I tried to arrange/align the head with the helmet and view from the underside and it looks very, very tight.

It does fit. But there is some resistance. I think the back of Stringer's helm flexes to fit since its a softer plastic. When I customized Stringer's helm to fit a visor. I was able to cut the back easily.

[weavil]

Found a bug for Technic. Part 32494 no longer snap into part 92909. It did before the parts update.

It got fixed!! Yippee!!

[Superkalle]

It got fixed!! Yippee!!

And it was thanks to you

[Aanchir]

I've got a bug: If you attach any part with studs to either side of the lattice section of part 30036, the studs disappear. They should still be visible through the top of the lattice.

Another bug: the ball snap in part 98587 has no connectivity to a ball with guides (for instance, the center ball joint of 90622 or 90626. It is never used this way in sets, but since it is designed with the same geometries as any other ball snap it should still function.

Additionally, parts 98588 and 11164 currently only support two colors each (in other words, there are two surfaces that can be colored differently from each other). They should support three colors each. The first, in all its appearances, is colored Titanium Metallic, Transparent Light Blue, and Bright Yellow (element 6012440). The second appeared in Transparent Light Blue, Bright Yellow, and White Glow in element 6039291. Technically, this is listed in the LEGO Group's database as Design ID 14412 instead of 11164, but the part number stamped into it still reads 11164. It appears in set 44009 Dragon Bolt this way.

Other problems with part 11164, which may be a result of part 11164 being rubber and flexible in real life but rigid in LDD:

• When constructing the head of set 44001, part 11287 cannot be attached fully into the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164. Likewise, 87846 cannot be attached to the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164.
  
• When constructing the head of set 44003, part 11286 cannot be attached fully into the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164.
  
• When constructing the head of set 44005, part 11296 cannot be attached fully into the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164.
  
• When constructing the head of set 44009, part 11288 cannot be attached fully into piece 6553, ultimately due to collision with 11164.
  
• When constructing the head of set 44011, part 11298 cannot be attached fully into the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164.
  
• When constructing the head of set 44013, part 11294 cannot be attached fully into the head piece 11270 due to collision with 11164.

Notice a pattern? Clearly, some work needs to be done on 11164's collision volumes. Additionally, the tail of 11164 should have flex, but this would not solve the problem of the front of collisions between these masks and the front/body of the part.

On a related note, the visor element 11269 cannot close fully on the helmets 11280, 11276, 11281, 11275, 11278, and 11277. In the first three instances, the visor is within three degrees of being fully closed before it encounters a collision. In the last three instances, the visor is between three and nine degrees off from being fully closed in the ideal situation. I am not sure if the issue is a result of improper collision volumes for the helmets, improper collision volumes or hinge placement for the visor 11269, or improper collision volumes or hinge placement for the head element 11270. But in every instance there is a visible gap between the visor and the part of the helmet it should be colliding with on the physical piece when it is fully closed.

That should cover every issue I have encountered so far. If you would like pictures of any of them, I can do my best, but many are difficult to illustrate without knowing how the elements are SUPPOSED to look. For now, the more confusing issues (the Hero Factory collision bugs) can be seen in this LXF, where I have hinged the hero visors as close to the closed position (90 degrees) as I can get them and there is still a visible gap, and where I have attached the brains and villain faceplates as securely to the heads as I can and they are still not all fully attached as they should be.

[Superkalle]

That should cover every issue I have encountered so far. If you would like pictures of any of them, I can do my best, but many are difficult to illustrate without knowing how the elements are SUPPOSED to look. For now, the more confusing issues (the Hero Factory collision bugs) can be seen in this LXF, where I have hinged the hero visors as close to the closed position (90 degrees) as I can get them and there is still a visible gap, and where I have attached the brains and villain faceplates as securely to the heads as I can and they are still not all fully attached as they should be.

Excellent report. I think I got it all. And the LXF-helped

[Aanchir]

Just went through and found a lot of parts that should be able to be multicolored but aren't:

• 2546 is multicolored in nine sets. The multicolored version is element 4540070, which appears in set 10218.
  
• 6082 is multicolored in three sets. The multicolored version is element 4507132, which appears in set 7623.
  
• 6083 is multicolored in two sets. One example is element 4514345, which appears in set 7666.
  
• 6086 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4535279 in set 8636.
  
• 11101 is multicolored in two sets. One example is element 6037154 in set 70111.
  
• 11302 is multicolored in four sets. One example is element 6029331 in set 44008.
  
• 11439 is multicolored in five sets. One example is element 6022109 from set 70504.
  
• 30293 is multicolored in seven sets. The multicolored version is element 4285879, which appears in set 7036.
  
• 30294 is multicolored in eight sets. The multicolored version is element 4288141, which appears in set 7036.
  
• 32558 is multicolored in five sets. One example is element 4492787 in set 7884.
  
• 41671 is multicolored in eight sets. One example is element 4586823 in set 7158.
  
• 47847 is multicolored in thirteen sets. One example is element 4508430 in set 7199.
  
• 51342 is multicolored in nine sets. One example is element 4519519 in set 7048.
  
• 51874 is multicolored in five sets. One example is element 6035592 in set 70403.
  
• 53562 is multicolored in sixteen sets. One example is element 4617652 in set 2233.
  
• 53983 is multicolored in six sets. One example is element 4289157 in set 8942. (image does not show multicolor correctly; the outer ring should be Black).
  
• 53988 is multicolored in eleven sets. One example is element 4297302 in set 8108. (image does not show multicolor correctly; the top should be Warm Gold).
  
• 54821 is multicolored in forty sets. One example is element 6024162 in set 70115.
  
• 57557 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4498070 in set 8918.
  
• 57558 is multicolored in two sets. The multicolored version is element 4499704, which appears in set 8917.
  
• 59233 is multicolored in 21 sets. One example is element 4514700 in set 75017.
  
• 60934 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4584806 in set 7145.
  
• 61804 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4525715 in set 8695.
  
• 62575 is multicolored in both sets it appears in. The multicolored version is element 4542121 whcih appears in set 7626.
  
• 64272 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4537511 in set 8983.
  
• 64297 is multicolored in one set. The multicolored version is element 4567575 in set 7116.
  
• 64776 is multicolored in around 40 sets. The most recent example is element 4539464 in set 50006.
  
• 85582 is multicolored in 22 sets. The multicolored version is element 4546585, which appears in set 2520.
  
• 88288 is multicolored in five sets. One example is element 4568950 in set 20017.
  
• 95350 is multicolored in two sets. The multicolored version (actually, the ONLY version) is element 4620396.
  
• 98088 is multicolored in two sets. One example is element 4645344 in set 5883.
  
• 98089 is multicolored in two sets. One example is element 4645345 in set 5883.

I may not be correct on how many sets each part is multicolored in, since I'm going by what I can see on Brickset or recall from memory. But the Design IDs, Element IDs, and set numbers should all be correct unless I made a mistake copying and pasting somewhere.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Aanchir

[Superkalle]

Super work Aanchir, and with set statistics :thumbup:

How is the situation on minifig heads/helmets? I've got a few SW helmets in the list that are quite common, like stormtroopers. Are there any other that need coloring possibility?

[pbat]

I don't know if this qualifys as a real bug or rather some sort of annoying glitch, but the LDD window still can't by no means be made smaller than 1024×768 pixels. Thus LDD can't cope well width Windows 7's aero snap functionality: By pressing either WIN+Left or WIN+Right, the respective window is supposed to snap either to the left or right side of the screen, consuming not more than half of its pixels. Assuming a screen with the common FullHD resolution of 1920×1080 pixels, the window then should not be wider than 960 pixels. LDD however even then keeps its minimal width of 1024 pixels and thus overlaps with any other aero-snapped window. This behaviour makes it quite annoying to use LDD side by side with other programs like a browser or a PDF viewer. Since there is way enough space both in the menu bar and in the toolbar, I recommend to lower the minimal width of the LDD window down to 960 pixels (or to pay me a screen with 4k resolution...).

[Superkalle]

I don't know if this qualifys as a real bug or rather some sort of annoying glitch, but the LDD window still can't by no means be made smaller than 1024×768 pixels. Thus LDD can't cope well width Windows 7's aero snap functionality: By pressing either WIN+Left or WIN+Right, the respective window is supposed to snap either to the left or right side of the screen, consuming not more than half of its pixels. Assuming a screen with the common FullHD resolution of 1920×1080 pixels, the window then should not be wider than 960 pixels. LDD however even then keeps its minimal width of 1024 pixels and thus overlaps with any other aero-snapped window. This behaviour makes it quite annoying to use LDD side by side with other programs like a browser or a PDF viewer. Since there is way enough space both in the menu bar and in the toolbar, I recommend to lower the minimal width of the LDD window down to 960 pixels (or to pay me a screen with 4k resolution...).

I have exactly the same problem. This is when you realize that today's LDD platform would sorely need a bit of updating. Like with the overcrowded brick palette that's hard to navigate, or trying to look at the super-small decoration previews, or the color palette that won't fit on a small screen, or....

[pbat]

Like with the overcrowded brick palette that's hard to navigate,

You can adjust the brick palette's width to up to 24 columns, but alas, LDD doesn't save that width and restores it back to 3 columns on the next startup: Not a bug but still annoying.

or trying to look at the super-small decoration previews,

Cutting off the preview control instead of using scroll bars is so 80s. And the GUI doesn't even contain all the available decorations hidden in the db.lif: Not a bug but still annoying.

or the color palette that won't fit on a small screen, or....

And still does not contain every color LDD can cope with like 183, 184, 185 or 186: Not a bug but still annoying.

Yeah, using LDD on a netbook or any similar small-screen device is a pain in the a‍s‍s. I doubt that the LDD developers have to use LDD themselves a lot; otherwise they surely would pimp its usability drastically.

[sheo]

Strange behavior of part 99773 compared to old style triangle 2905:

Edited August 15, 2017 by sheo

[pbat]

3020 does not fit under 87613 (as needed for set 8638): If you have a look at the instruction, page 48/49, figures 25 and 26, a complete 3020 should fit lengthwise under 87613. LDD however does not allow those sort of contact. Illegal build from TLG or wrong collision box in LDD?

By the way: Parts 87613 & 93595 should be multicolored, but LDD does not support it, too.

[PeabodySam]

As of the most recent update, 64712 Rim W. Studs Ø62 no longer collides correctly with 4019 Gear Wheel Z=16, M=1 and 94925 Gear Wheel Z16 in a manner as is required for sets that have gear function drills such as 8960 Thunder Driller or 8964 Titanium Command Rig. As it currently stands, my LXF for 8964 has removed 64712 and I cannot put it back in. If someone else can manage to make it work, please post an LXF containing the solution.

[pbat]

6141 does not attach to 4288, as it is needed for set 6507; see instruction. Edited September 7, 2013 by pbat

[pbat]

In LDD 43903 has a totally unusable shape: It either should be flexible or similar to 71372. Additionally, it should attach to 30285, 51377 (not yet in LDD), 55982 and 55981.

[Superkalle]

6141 does not attach to 4288, as it is needed for set 6507; see instruction.

Should 6141 attach the other way to?

Or is there a grove in 4288 that accepts a stud? I'm asking because the geometry of 4288 in LDD is no so detailed.

In LDD 43903 has a totally unusable shape: It either should be flexible or similar to 71372. Additionally, it should attach to 30285, 51377 (not yet in LDD), 55982 and 55981.

Yeah, that is an annoying one

[pbat]

Should 6141 attach the other way to?

Or is there a grove in 4288 that accepts a stud? I'm asking because the geometry of 4288 in LDD is no so detailed.

4288 is quite a versatile tire: As a balloon tire, 4288 is made of vulcanised rubber gum and thus is of a rather flexible consistency, far more than usual bricks (think of liquorice). However, 6141 should fit only with its stud in first: Have a look at the tire down left: if an axle like 3749 is put in the tire from below, there remains a small offset or gap where the stud of 6141 (and maybe 85861) smootly fits in. I guess regular round bricks with an height of 1 like 3062 won't fit that good, as the bottom lip of 6141 / 85861 sort of snaps in (remember, 4288 is flexible). In real life it is more obvious than in LDD.

Apart from this set 6507 from 1989 and 6389 from 1991, the tire 4288 is often attached the other way round: The crossed hole then points away from the vehicle: In earlier sets (like 1558 from 1986, but also 6812 from 1991), the tire is thereto held by 122c01 or 122c02, but later 4624 (e.g. set 6987 from 1988 or set 6833 from 1990) got more common. LDD does not support 4624 attached to 4288, but only 3749 and other axle-based connections like the ones used in e.g. set 6847 from 1985, set 8444 from 1999 or set 1290 from 2000; there, however, with the crossed hole pointing towards the vehicle, but without 6141 used as a rim.

The first set using 4288 (6880 from 1982) and also the last set where 4288 was used (8435 from 2004) even use cross axles in conjuntion with 3713. LDD does not support 3713 being put inside 4288, too: This build would, however, most likely be illegal nowadays, since it causes permanent stress to 4288. In real life, however, 4288 is flexible enough to cope well with it.

So to answer your initial question: 6141 may in real life be forced to fit the other way, too, but as this would put way more stress on 4288, I wouldn't recommend this connection to be supported in LDD. But LDD should support 4624 (and maybe even 3713) to be put into 4288, as this is needed for quite a bunch of official sets.

[Superkalle]

OK, so in total:

6141 1x1 round plate - with stud side in only

4624 rim - with hubcap side in (naturally)

6590 bushing - both sides in

correct?

As for 6590, it will actually fit I notice (no collision errors), and it's quite easy to scaffold it in place with a cross-axle.

[pbat]

OK, so in total:

6141 1x1 round plate - with stud side in only

4624 rim - with hubcap side in (naturally)

6590 bushing - both sides in

correct?

Sir, yes Sir! *salute*

As for 6590, it will actually fit I notice (no collision errors), and it's quite easy to scaffold it in place with a cross-axle.

I doubt it will fit that smoothly in real life though: There is no real "snapping" connection, but a rather tight one, similar to the pneumatic hoses. In LDD you can't connect a pneumatic hose (or in LDD "Outer Cable" 58856, 55668, 76324, 76302, 76255, 76270, 61356, 76275, 76257, 55676, 62530, 76254, 76277 and 57274) to a connector peg like 4697 or 99021, too, since LDD can't handle elastic materials properly. The flexible elements can be bent, but not squeezed or get their shape somewhat shifted.

I suppose the hole in 4288 is bigger in LDD than it is in real life, although I must admit that I haven't seen a real 4288 tire for more than 20 years. But as far as I can remember, you had to push 6141 out of 4288 by using a cross axle and a lot of force, since it fits that tightly. And thus 6590 must be of similar difficulty.

[Aanchir]

In LDD you can't connect a pneumatic hose (or in LDD "Outer Cable" 58856, 55668, 76324, 76302, 76255, 76270, 61356, 76275, 76257, 55676, 62530, 76254, 76277 and 57274) to a connector peg like 4697 or 99021, too, since LDD can't handle elastic materials properly. The flexible elements can be bent, but not squeezed or get their shape somewhat shifted.

"Outer Cable" parts are NOT pneumatic tubing, they're Technic flex cable. That's the reason why they don't connect to the connectors you listed: they are NOT elastic enough to stretch around a 3.2mm shaft in real life.

The Brickset parts database is usually a pretty reliable way of knowing if a part on LDD is actually what you think it is. Here are pneumatic tubes; here are outer cables. There are no pneumatic tubes on LDD, probably for the specific reason you mentioned: there is no mechanism in the current version of the software to allow them to stretch around pins. It's possible they could be included if the LDD team rendered them with the ends already stretched to allow a shaft one module in length and 3.2mm in diameter to be inserted.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Aanchir

[pbat]

"Outer Cable" parts are NOT pneumatic tubing, they're Technic flex cable. That's the reason why they don't connect to the connectors you listed: they are NOT elastic enough to stretch around a 3.2mm shaft in real life.

Oh, good to know: I always assumed pneumatic tubes and technic flex cables to be synonyms. *embarrassed* I definitely have to become way more nit-picky before getting my tag... [Edit]Disregard that.[/Edit]

The Brickset parts database is usually a pretty reliable way of knowing if a part on LDD is actually what you think it is. Here are pneumatic tubes; here are outer cables. There are no pneumatic tubes on LDD, probably for the specific reason you mentioned: there is no mechanism in the current version of the software to allow them to stretch around pins. It's possible they could be included if the LDD team rendered them with the ends already stretched to allow a shaft one module in length and 3.2mm in diameter to be inserted.

As long as there is no real physics engine in LDD, adding pneumatic tubes is sort of futile isn't it, as they wouldn't work as intended anyway.

Edited September 8, 2013 by pbat

[Aanchir]

As long as there is no real physics engine in LDD, adding pneumatic tubes is sort of futile isn't it, as they wouldn't work as intended anyway.

Well, you could arguably say the same thing about a lot of the Mindstorms and Power Functions elements on LDD. But even if you can't "test" such functions on LDD, it adds to its versatility as design software to be able to plan or create building guides for functional models.

[pbat]

Reading the news about the new 10241 Mærsk Line Triple-E I couldn't help but wonder how to do this in LDD.

First of all, I was a bit shocked that in 2013 there are still new sets with "Sticker over Assembly": I hated this technique back in 1983 at the 6683 and I still hate it 30 years later.

Anyways, since LDD can't handle stickers at all, this is not an issue to post here. But I encounterd another issue. Have a look at this image:

It is impossible in LDD to attach a stud at the lamellas of a fence (3185, but also 3186 and 3633). Moreover, those pieces are not even permeable: When twiddling with those parts, I noticed you can't even put a much smaller piece (like a 30374 light sword blade or a 87994 shaft) through the holes, even if you don't touch any lamella at all. Thus scaffolding the 6141 round plate becomes even more messy.

So I guess the collision boxes of those fences should get some refurbishment, especially since other fences like 2583, 6079, 30110, 15332, 30055, 30056 and 30077 are not affected. Even if it remains illegal to attach a stud at a fence in the depicted way, it should be possible in LDD to put smaller parts through the holes.

[Superkalle]

Funny you should mention this Pbat, because I was thinking exactly the same thing (it's a disease when you start looking at new LEGO-sets and trying to figure out if it can be done in LDD ).

As for putting a stud in the lattice of 3185, I think it's actually legal. The spacing of the lamellas cross-joints is so large in this element that the lamellas can flex enough (i.e. you can only put the stud in the three cavities in the center line). This is not the case in 3633. This means that 3186 should be legal as well, but only the two holes in the center line.

Hope it makes sense what I just wrote.