Eurobricks Mafia II: Mafia School: Day One

[Rick]

So, who are we going to start pointing fingers at?

We may have just found someone.

[Piratedave84]

I don't think we know who is 'convertible'; we did not last time. The mumber if I remember correctly was 5 people that could be converted.

I find it strange that Zepher is encouraging people to die; who is to say the masons will not get to them first!? How does towny dying help town; I'm not sure I get it?? I am all for playing an 'all in' type of game when you are Vanilla but going as far as pretty much encouraging people to scrijce themselves is quite bold a statement!

What if that recruitable person is a PR? What then? Should they still be up in front and have no fear?

[Zepher]

We may have just found someone.

And why, pray tell. State a case.

I don't think we know who is 'convertible'; we did not last time. The mumber if I remember correctly was 5 people that could be converted.

I find it strange that Zepher is encouraging people to die; who is to say the masons will not get to them first!? How does towny dying help town; I'm not sure I get it?? I am all for playing an 'all in' type of game when you are Vanilla but going as far as pretty much encouraging people to scrijce themselves is quite bold a statement!

That mumber is six. And I didn't encourage anyone to die. As far as I know, no one can commit suicide in these games. I was putting out thoughts. Statistically speaking, it is better for the town if the recruitable players are killed as opposed to recruited, not killed in general.

[Rick]

And why, pray tell. State a case.

I was referring to Li'l Cecilie's point... which you didn't address just now.

[Capt. Redblade]

That being said... I hate first day lynches. No one strikes me as particularly scummy. I, as always, suggest we find someone hiding around doing nothing. Scum lay low, particularly in the beginning when there's so much confusion anyway. We have a good chance of finding at least one in the "non-talkers", and if we lynch a non-talking townie, they were hardly helping anyway.

Final note of interest/thought on my mind: those of us who are convertible, whoever we may be, should not be afraid of a lynch or a night kill. If the scum are unable to recruit you, you are helping the town- that includes dying (it is better, number-wise, to be dead than converted). So those who can be converted should play a game particularly unafraid of death. I, as always, expect everyone to talk lots so we have ideas coming in, but convertibles should both not be afraid of death, and NOT be a part of the major town block unless you're already masoned. As long as you're town and you know you're convertible, you should attempt to learn as few actions as possible so if/when you're converted, you have nothing to offer the scum. Until you are (potentially) converted, you are on OUR team, so play it smart.

Hmm... You seem awfully nonchalant about death, even going so far as to say dead Townies are a good thing. You encourage the convertibles to play as if they're unafraid to die, yet my understanding is that we're not supposed to know if we are convertible. Therefore, you're either encouraging everyone to play like they're invincible, which is stupid, or you're encouraging nobody, which is useless. Furthermore, some of the convertibles may be power roles, and if they invite death, then we lose them.

And why, pray tell. State a case.

That mumber is six. And I didn't encourage anyone to die. As far as I know, no one can commit suicide in these games. I was putting out thoughts. Statistically speaking, it is better for the town if the recruitable players are killed as opposed to recruited, not killed in general.

But that's the thing: we don't know who is convertible. I don't think even the convertibles know. They can't actively hinder the scum by not learning anything and hoping to die before they're converted, so you're just encouraging people to play dumb either for no reason or for your own advancement.

Scummo.

[TrumpetKing]

Sorry I have been gone, guys! Li'l Zepher, despite being an Earthling, seems to want the recruit-able players dead. I can see his thinking on that, and I actually don't think that it is that scummy. The recruiting team of scum is obviously going to want recruit-able players recruited rather than killed, so if I understood the gist of what he was saying, he would rather the recruit-able players dead. This could actually be an asset yet a disadvantage for the town, but more-so a disadvantage. On one side, it keeps the scum from recruiting anybody, but on another side, it brings our numbers down (which does make a little "ping" noise in my head towards Li'l Zepher), and it means that we can't confirm other people the easy way (using any future mason results to root out scum).

[Nightshroud99]

Insisting on being a leader makes you trust him more? I think someone pressing to be a leader and hinting at forming a Town block this early should be under more scrutiny. Would you follow Li'l Kiel just because of this persistence? Li'l Corn was pretty persistent too. He got up on a soap box wrapped in an American flag and made a speech. That seems more insistent to me. Why not vote for him?

Nope. I never said I trusted him, just that I don't think he's scummy (from what he's said). Lil Corny is mayor now, but I view Lil Kiel as an unknown as I don't know a lot about him, and if he wants to prove himself then being mayor is a good way to do that. Plus, I could maybe learn more about him this way.

I agree that someone brazen enough to want to openly form a town block should be put under scrutiny, but I doubt most scum have the balls to put themselves out there like that.

[Chromeknight]

No one strikes me as particularly scummy.

Final note of interest/thought on my mind: those of us who are convertible, whoever we may be, should not be afraid of a lynch or a night kill. If the scum are unable to recruit you, you are helping the town- that includes dying (it is better, number-wise, to be dead than converted). So those who can be converted should play a game particularly unafraid of death. I, as always, expect everyone to talk lots so we have ideas coming in, but convertibles should both not be afraid of death, and NOT be a part of the major town block unless you're already masoned. As long as you're town and you know you're convertible, you should attempt to learn as few actions as possible so if/when you're converted, you have nothing to offer the scum. Until you are (potentially) converted, you are on OUR team, so play it smart.

Mr Def said that we don't know.

Have you not been paying attention in class?

Unless MrDef is being sneaky. Or you're being sneaky.

Are you being sneaky? Or just confused?

[TrumpetKing]

Evidence? Volunteering for mayor is the evidence you are referring to? I don't follow that logic, at least not the wording of it. If every player now volunteered to be mayor, how would you gather your "evidence" to trust someone then?

I had meant that it was brave of him to do this after he was killed for doing the same last time, so I see him more likely as town. I do find it odd that he says he knows that he won't die on night one, though.

[Nightshroud99]

Final note of interest/thought on my mind: those of us who are convertible, whoever we may be, should not be afraid of a lynch or a night kill. If the scum are unable to recruit you, you are helping the town- that includes dying (it is better, number-wise, to be dead than converted). So those who can be converted should play a game particularly unafraid of death. I, as always, expect everyone to talk lots so we have ideas coming in, but convertibles should both not be afraid of death, and NOT be a part of the major town block unless you're already masoned. As long as you're town and you know you're convertible, you should attempt to learn as few actions as possible so if/when you're converted, you have nothing to offer the scum. Until you are (potentially) converted, you are on OUR team, so play it smart.

So, who are we going to start pointing fingers at?

I agree with lynching someone who doesn't talk. But, the part about townies dying if they can be converted. I'm iffy on this; yeah if they are converted by scum then it's a loss, but what about the masons? And, it's still a dead townie. I'd rather not openly try and get our own people killed in this endeavor.

Maybe it's your whole train of thought, but I'm kind of confused at the point you're trying to make?

Also, do people know if they can be converted or not? Are you a townie who can be converted? Or a scum who's role entitles him to know this?

[Zepher]

Are you being sneaky? Or just confused?

Just confused, actually. Classic werewolf reading of the role PM. I also went and reread that thread, and was confused when def said that in thread. My PM says that I can be recruited to the masons or scum, but that may just be (and now I believe that it most certainly IS) indicating that like everyone I am unsure if I'm recruitable or not. It was only rereading that post by def that made me realize what the "may" in the phrasing meant.

I'm just a Lil' Earthling. Sometimes I make mistakes. But it's still interesting to see who pounced on it, and accused me when the worst I was implying was that I could possibly be recruited.

[Chromeknight]

My PM says that I can be recruited to the masons or scum, but that may just be (and now I believe that it most certainly IS) indicating that like everyone I am unsure if I'm recruitable or not.

I'm just a Lil' Earthling. Sometimes I make mistakes. But it's still interesting to see who pounced on it, and accused me when the worst I was implying was that I could possibly be recruited.

That's interesting. You know if you're convertible or not? Because I can't remember being told anything about being convertible or not. Just saying.

That leads to the interesting question of why your pm doesn't say that Cecilie?

[TrumpetKing]

Li'l Zepher, I don't know why you would say that. Now the scum know that you are apparently recruit-able, and that is not good. Though the masons also know you are recruit-able, I'm not sure who the recruiting goes to. I didn't see any rules about that earlier. I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote for you, even if you are town, because the scum now have an easy recruitment, and I am thinking that we need to stop that from happening.

[Zepher]

Li'l Zepher, I don't know why you would say that. Now the scum know that you are apparently recruit-able, and that is not good. Though the masons also know you are recruit-able, I'm not sure who the recruiting goes to. I didn't see any rules about that earlier. I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote for you, even if you are town, because the scum now have an easy recruitment, and I am thinking that we need to stop that from happening.

I'm inclined to direct you to this.

I was wrong. The scum and I both don't know if I'm recruitable. In fact, EVERY town member can be recruited to the masons. Or did your non-town PM not come with a similar advisory that both sides might be looking into you, because the scum wouldn't need to be looking into you?

And Cecile, similar question.

[TrumpetKing]

I was wrong. The scum and I both don't know if I'm recruitable. In fact, EVERY town member can be recruited to the masons. Or did your non-town PM not come with a similar advisory that both sides might be looking into you, because the scum wouldn't need to be looking into you?

I didn't see anything in the post you linked to about tiebreakers, if that is what you were referring to. You had said that your PM said you could be recruited into the masons or the scum. And would you please explain everything about my "non-town" PM that you think I have? I'm having trouble making sense of it. And the fact that I don't want you recruited into the scum can easily disclose your "Li'l TrumpetKing has a non-town PM" theory. Do you really think I would have said anything about that if I were scum? I said that I was worried you would get recruited to the scum, which I didn't want, so it might be better to lynch you so the scum don't get an advantage. Sorry.

[CMP]

That leads to the interesting question of why your pm doesn't say that Cecilie?

Indeed. Didn't expect a lead this early, but best not to look the gift werewolf in the mouth.

[TrumpetKing]

Li'l Cecilie said she didn't recall seeing that. The odd thing is that it appears that after she said that she left without filling us in on if her PM actually did say that. That gives us an O.K. lead on her. Not super strong, but it does seem pretty scummy. I feel that the question asked by Li'l Chromeknight does imply that everybody's PM says that, though we don't know that. It is very possible that Mr. def only wrote that on some PM's, and possibly forgot to on others. I don't know about the leads, because there is always the possibility that the PM's were differently written, but I doubt Mr. def would confirm that, so we can only go off of pure speculation, which in turn is an O.K. lead, as I said before. Our vig better be taking some good notes...

[Hinckley]

Well scum can't always be predictable, can they?

That's what took a bit of getting used to with the concept the first time around. The Town can play very differently with two Scum teams out there who don't know each other yet need to unite. So a lot of the Scum tells we're used to reading may be feigned by Townies trying to infiltrate or make it harder for the Scum to unite.

I highly doubt scum would be able to provoke a tie. Think about it, in all the mafia games that were played on Eurobricks, there never has been a tie (I think).

Fraulein Bloodbrick, Scum team wins by forcing a tie and being the first to vote.

Nope. I never said I trusted him, just that I don't think he's scummy (from what he's said). Lil Corny is mayor now, but I view Lil Kiel as an unknown as I don't know a lot about him, and if he wants to prove himself then being mayor is a good way to do that. Plus, I could maybe learn more about him this way.

This is a squirrely answer. How do you learn more about someone when they're mayor? The role itself, once given, never seemed to really play much into the game at all the first time around. What would you be expecting to have learned from Li'l Kiel and therefore what can we now learn from Li'l Corn now that he's in office?

Even if Li'l Kiel or Li'l Corn can "prove" themselves over the first couple days, let's not forget how dangerous a Town block can be in a situation where there are a higher number of possible conversions than most games.

I'm just a Lil' Earthling. Sometimes I make mistakes. But it's still interesting to see who pounced on it, and accused me when the worst I was implying was that I could possibly be recruited.

I doesn't look to me like anybody "pounced" on you. It looks like people were asking for clarification about something you said which you've admitted you were mistaken about.

[XimenaPaulina]

Oh my Li's guys and gals (before I address those questioning me about 'volunteering' to be "leader" ) PLEASE for the love of God DO NOT in anyway reveal the structure of your role PM especially with regards if you're a recruitable townie or not - the recruiting scum team if obviously fishing info right now and you're just falling into a trap! If you insinuate in your posts that you don't know anything about being recruitable then that just gives away that you are not recruitable and that would just be beneficial to both scum teams! (recruiting scum will ignore you and will narrow down their list of 'recruitable towie' and the killing scum would just simply kill you). Please be careful on what you post!!!

[TrumpetKing]

So...... Are you going to address the people that called you out now, because you didn't. At all....

[XimenaPaulina]

So...... Are you going to address the people that called you out now, because you didn't. At all....

Patience my friend, I'm no super-boy in trying to type so fast and gather my thoughts after waking from sleep nap, plus I haven't eaten breakfast yet.

[TrumpetKing]

I have some cookies!

Sorry, I thought you would have done it in the same post. The fact that you didn't proves that you haven't had breakfast!!!

[CorneliusMurdock]

I do find it odd that he says he knows that he won't die on night one, though.

I never said that. I just don't think the scum have the balls to try that play again. 'Cause they're all wusses.

This whole PM argument could be nothing. Might be Mr. Def phrased all our role PMs differently so that a werewolf situation couldn't occur. The rules do say that we shouldn't try to use our role PMs to our advantage.

[XimenaPaulina]

It sounds very much like you're wanting to set yourself up as town leader. It almost sounds like you're trying to encourage people to state their night action plans in public, or in private to you. Perhaps I am misinterpreting?

That was not my original intention, really. I'm just merely offering an avenue for townies out there to have someone to talk to, someone they could relate to for being all alone at the start of the game, not knowing who to trust and to initially talk to. If you're a real townie you'd understand how it feels, compared to those scummos sitting pretty right now formulating plans with their scum buddies. Townies don't have that luxury at the start of the game. And with me sticking my head out there and trying my best to do what I think is best to unite the town, hopefully it would reverberate to others that I could be trusted. If what I'm doing entails assuming an early position of leadership then so be it, but I'm not lobbying to be a leader for the sake of being a leader, just trying to unite the town this early. If I see there are more capable townies out there who could step-up to be a leader, I'd happily defer to them (my game history is proof of that: Rufus was our town leader in Bloodbrick II in a losing cause, def as a neutral led us in Gotham City victory, Cornelius stepped-up to lead is in IMHOTEP.) As you see, I've never been a leader, and honestly I'm more comfortable playing in a supporting contributing role. But my intention whay I'm doing this is simply to unite the townies as early as possible, conisdering with have a daunting threat with two scum teams trying to unite themselves in the coming days. I hope you see my point there.

And I'm encouraging people to broadcast their night actions in public? I never said that, and you and I and everyone knows that would be stupid.

If they tell me what their night action would be in private? It's a matter of trust. I expect the townies PRs to be careful and they won't even tell anyone unless they fully trust someone.

So I have no concrete suggestions apart from the usual: We look at people's behaviour, and challenge it when necessary, and come to our own conclusions about whom to trust with the information we process from that. It is from deciding who is trustworthy that a true town block emerges.

You said it yourself that it's though people's behavior that we would know who to trust is. That's what I've been doing, since I'm just utilizing the greatest power of a townie: BEING TRUE AND HONEST ABOUT YOURSELF.

I think someone pressing to be a leader and hinting at forming a Town block this early should be under more scrutiny.

I agree that someone brazen enough to want to openly form a town block should be put under scrutiny, but I doubt most scum have the balls to put themselves out there like that.

I'm all for all scrunity you could throw at me Li'l kids. Like I said, I have the greatest weapon of a townie: HONESTY.

[TrumpetKing]

I never said that. I just don't think the scum have the balls to try that play again. 'Cause they're all wusses.

Sorry, that is how I read it. It's still really similar to what I thought you said, though.

This whole PM argument could be nothing. Might be Mr. Def phrased all our role PMs differently so that a werewolf situation couldn't occur. The rules do say that we shouldn't try to use our role PMs to our advantage.

I meant to respond to this, too. I actually had mentioned a similar possibility, which involved him wording PM's differently. It's also a good thing you mention that rule, do you think we should simply stop talking about it?