Eurobricks Mafia II: Mafia School: Day One

[Rick]

The thing that strikes me odd though, is that he went from a pretty townie PM claim to a claim that says he didn't know.

I thought popular opinion was that he went from a werewolfey PM claim to a slightly more townie one. But I think everyone should have been aware of the way Mr. def set up this class and li'l Zeph didn't address li'l Cecilie's points at all in his first reply.

If there is already a town block being formed by a more competent townie then it's great news! Even if I'm no part of that, nor I expect to be part of that anytime soon, as long as I know there is a town core forming behind the scenes then I'm all good with it.

The only true town block that can form is the masonry, which I doubt can be forming on day one as the mason recruitment likely is a night action.

Then, maybe some PR's could get in contact with them, and if we're lucky a town block could form. But, this isn't good either as both could be scum...

... or converted later on. I think one of the points of this class is that you can't positively confirm anyone as scum or town, with the exception of recruiting townies into the masonry. And remember that one of the reasons for having the masons is that the town can form their own little "scum team" and claim to one of the scum teams down the road. So, trying to be the towniest of town during the days isn't going to be a good strategy either. I guess we'll have to leave the town block formation to the masons behind the scenes.

If I had to point to who I think would be scum, it would be you two, but honestly, it's only my gut talking and not my brain, but it's good to get such suspicions out. (Though that didn't serve me too well when a certain JimB was loose for so long before)

Who are you referring to by "you two"?

I suppose I ought to do it. I'm not too sure if there is a lie detector around this time (especially with fewer numbers), but it's honestly just a couple pixels words to say, so: I am town. I am as town as I was when I was a Seer, which I'm not now.

I think Mr. def said the setup would be the same, not necessarily the roles. I think there was some opposition to roles that positively identified the scum in EB Mafia I. So, I too doubt there's a lie detector in the game, but I guess it doesn't hurt to say that I'm aligned with the town.

[TrumpetKing]

I thought popular opinion was that he went from a werewolfey PM claim to a slightly more townie one. But I think everyone should have been aware of the way Mr. def set up this class and li'l Zeph didn't address li'l Cecilie's points at all in his first reply.

Well, that is really more of a matter of opinion. I feel it is more townie to less townie, because saying that at first you can be recruited by either scum or mason is only possible for a town, I would think. But then if I recall correctly he said he was confused and that his PM didn't say anything about conversions, which really doesn't mean anything, but seems a bit more scummy than his original post.

[CMP]

Who are you referring to by "you two"?

I assume he meant me and Kiel.

[Rick]

But then if I recall correctly he said he was confused and that his PM didn't say anything about conversions, which really doesn't mean anything, but seems a bit more scummy than his original post.

I think Zepher's confusion was about the wording (and let's not argue about the exact wording, because - even though the scum already know the wording - it can only help them). This is what Zepher said about it himself. Anyway, it's information that everyone had at the start of this class. Mr. def said that scum convertible townies don't know they are convertible.

[Cecilie]

That leads to the interesting question of why your pm doesn't say that Cecilie?

I think only def can answer that. How am I supposed to know why my PM is worded the way it is? All I know is that my PM doesn't state if I'm recruitable or not, which it isn't supposed to either.

Li'l Cecilie said she didn't recall seeing that. The odd thing is that it appears that after she said that she left without filling us in on if her PM actually did say that. That gives us an O.K. lead on her. Not super strong, but it does seem pretty scummy. I feel that the question asked by Li'l Chromeknight does imply that everybody's PM says that, though we don't know that. It is very possible that Mr. def only wrote that on some PM's, and possibly forgot to on others. I don't know about the leads, because there is always the possibility that the PM's were differently written, but I doubt Mr. def would confirm that, so we can only go off of pure speculation, which in turn is an O.K. lead, as I said before. Our vig better be taking some good notes...

I was under the impression that all town could be recruited to mason, and the ones who could be recruited to scum don't know it. Which is why I was surprised that Li'l Zepher would think we knew, implying he knew if he was or not (or that he's a scum who hadn't been paying attention, which I found more likely). And I went to get a nap, as I had made my point, and had no corrections to issue (I did check my PM). And I don't want to discuss the actual wording, as Li'l Rick points out, in case it will help scum.

Oh, and one more thing, just in case there actually is a lie detector out there who wants to test me:

I'm aligned with the Town.

[Pandora]

Firstly: I am aligned with the town.

Li'l TrumpetKing, you do seem to want Li'l Zepher gone today. Firstly you want him gone to save him from being recruited to the scum, and now you want him gone because he's scummy to you. I know you've said you felt his posts went from "more townie to less townie" but it strikes me you want him gone either way.

I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote for you, even if you are town, because the scum now have an easy recruitment, and I am thinking that we need to stop that from happening.

This in particular strikes me as odd. I think someone said something about it earlier, but if you want to prevent the scum from recruiting the townies by lynching them, then given that nobody knows who's recruitable or not (aside from the masons) you'll just end up with a lot of dead townies.

Do you really think I would have said anything about that if I were scum? I said that I was worried you would get recruited to the scum, which I didn't want, so it might be better to lynch you so the scum don't get an advantage. Sorry.

WIFOM arguments aren't likely to hold much water in this game, really, and again you're wanting to lynch someone you believe (at that point) to be town to save them from recruitment, well, see my point above.

Others have expressed that Li'l Zepher has moved perhaps from a scummy to less scummy position. You have expressed the opposite view. It seems to me that either way Li'l Zeph reads to you, you specifically want him dead. In my eyes Li'l Zepher has answered reasonably, and that means I view him as less likely to be scum, but obviously still possibly scum, but I don't see a good enough reason to want to lynch him. You seem to see reasons to lynch him no matter what he says.

For now I'll vote: Li'l TrumpetKing

Rufus was our town leader in Bloodbrick II in a losing cause

The stickler side of me mandates I point out that actually Rufus and I were both the same character in Bloodbrick II; I remember that game acutely well, and although neither of us would perhaps like to be remembered as any form of town leader, I guess we were.

There, my sticklerishness covered, can I go back to tickling now please Mr def?

BEING TRUE AND HONEST ABOUT YOURSELF.

HONESTY.

In terms of a response, I agree with what Li'l Hinck said to you, but I'll just add that shouting is still shouting even with a at the end of it.

[Chromeknight]

I am town.

I think only def can answer that. How am I supposed to know why my PM is worded the way it is? All I know is that my PM doesn't state if I'm recruitable or not, which it isn't supposed to either.

I've heard the objection from the opposing counsel, so I withdraw the question, Your Honour.

...If I had to point to who I think would be scum, it would be you two, but honestly, it's only my gut talking and not my brain, but it's good to get such suspicions out. (Though that didn't serve me too well when a certain JimB was loose for so long before)

I suppose I ought to do it. I'm not too sure if there is a lie detector around this time (especially with fewer numbers), but it's honestly just a couple pixels words to say, so: I am town. I am as town as I was when I was a Seer, which I'm not now.

Apparently they're now spelling flail as OMFGUS.

Perhaps our Li'l Boy Scout ought engage his brain rather than his guts.

'Cause I gotta ask you dude, why did you need to emphasise your lie-detector statement? Why not just state it and let it go?

vote:Li'l Scouty

Lets have an answer from the head rather than the tail this time.

[def]

In order to balance the PM sent today to the scum, so that they cannot confirm themselves to each other through it, here is what they received:

The vanillas all received a variation of this:

you are a vanilla townie. You have no night action, but you are really important to the game! You may be inducted into the masonry, or you may be recruited by scum, so please take part from the start, since your role may expand, and your teams need you.

Ability players received this as a tag on their PMs

This is a mandatory ability, and if you fail to submit your night actions, you will receive a vote penalty the next day. The penalty will not be explained.

I expect you not to use this as a way to ingratiate yourself to the town (and have stated that I was sending you this in thread, so they should know not to), but in case things continue...

I'll remind all, that using info or wording from your PM in order to clear or convict players is against the rules, but more importantly, against the spirit of the game. It's an unfortunate way to start day one, and I hope it isn't an issue on future days... (I had planned to post this sort of thing in the first post, and it slipped my mind when making it, so that's my responsibility for not removing the possibility in advance)

[Piratedave84]

I'll play along;

I am aligned with the town

I find Trumpet's fixation on Zepher a bit ... Strange to say the least; Zepher had made a weird point about conversion and death but it is pretty obviois by now that he meant no harm and it was clearly a question of misunderstanding.

I dont know why you were arguing/discussing convertibility; this was VERY clear in the sign up thread. These types o discussions only take away from the task ag jand and are IMO just 'fluff'; either to make one appear as helpul or out of plain 'not having paid attention' either way, it's harmful to us!

I am not convinced of anyone's guilt/scumminess as of yet but a few people have poped up on my radar; more on that later!

[Endgame]

I am town.

What I find interesting about TrumpetKing's behavior is that he believes that Zepher is scummy... then echoes nearly his exact some views on killing recruitables. Zepher has cleared himself a bit to me, and only seemed to be confused. Li'l Trumpetking has seemed to just keep flipping from position to position with little to no explanation.

Vote: Li'l TrumpetKing (TrumpetKing)

If TrumpetKing can provide a defense, I'd be happy to change my vote. It isn't final yet, but for now I will be sticking to this stance.

[Scouty]

Like I said, we shouldn't be careless with our lives, but when the only thing you post all day is stating that you don't want to be mayor because a mayor is likely to die, it makes you look selfish/scummy. You've been at this far too long to be selfish with your life.

Look, if I appear scummy it's because I want to. If I'm selfish, well, there's nothing I can say against that. But still, it's not like everybody except me leapt at the chance to be mayor.

There's hardly any strong cases on Day One. I'm glad you can agree with that, at least, so I hope you'll understand that I'm not unvoting you just yet.

I do, but I hope you don't tunnel vision me simply because its the first day. It doesn't always work, and you'd be wrong (if you're town).

Interesting. Your gut tells you that the only two people who have made cases against anyone in an attempt to get anywhere today are scummy?

Well, I read what you guys said and it did (am I about to say this?) ping my radar (god ). I just saw the "scum perspective" of it, or at least I made the mistake of imposing it instead.

'Cause I gotta ask you dude, why did you need to emphasise your lie-detector statement? Why not just state it and let it go?

Because I can? Is there any reason that I can't and or shouldn't emphasize it? For a role that I don't think that is even in the game, but did it anyway, it oughtn't really matter. Maybe I'm mistaken here.

Lets have an answer from the head rather than the tail this time.

But I like my beaver tail (Disclaimer: I don't think I'm the animal )

I am not convinced of anyone's guilt/scumminess as of yet but a few people have poped up on my radar; more on that later!

Sooner, rather than later, is preferable.

[Fugazi]

I find myself agreeing with Li'l Pandora's arguments against Li'l TrumpetKing. I do look forward to further explanations from him.

As for the other accusations (Li'l Zepher, Li'l Scouty and Li'l Capt Redblade), in my opinion there's not a lot of (subjective) evidence to support them so far. I would say that their explanations have been satisfactory given the circumstances.

I am aligned with the town.

[def]

Vote Tally:

Li'l Capt. Redblade 1 (Kiel)

Li'l Scouty 2 (CallMePie, ChromeKnight)

Li'l Zepher 1 (TrumpetKing)

Li'l TrumpetKing 2 (Pandora, Endgame)

24 hours left

[Scouty]

I can agree with Pandora's accusation against Trumpetking, it's the strongest so far. Killing somebody because they might be convertible is not a good tactic, as it'll just leave you with dead townies. I can see how he is using this tactic to kill townies. I'll wait for anything he has to say before making a decision to vote.

[Peanuts]

I am aligned with the town.

I can't say the case against Li'l Zepher is strong, his defense was okay considering the accusation didn't have much weight. The stranger is it that Li'l Trumpetking seems to be so tunneled on him, first because he wanted to lynch convertible townies, then because of his "inconsistencies".

I am voting for him because of his inconsistencies.

I'm afraid I can't see where these inconsistencies lie, can you please point them out by quoting his posts? If not, you seem to be a good lynch candidate to me.

[Zepher]

I just think his overall behavior is strange, and I don't know how I feel about his attitude about the PM's. I'm just unsure about him, the things he said almost completely contradict eachother, and I believe we are supposed to "Lynch All Liars". I know that we aren't supposed to use Role PM's to our advantage, and I don't think that's what I'm doing. I am voting for him because of his inconsistencies.

I don't think your scum, necessarily. I think you're just very bad at reading. Perhaps even worse at it than this little Earthling.

I'll be flying to the moon today- er- be busy doing normal Earthling stuff like bussing back to school or something.... and as voting is mandatory, I don't want to be caught with my tentecles out... I mean pants down. For now, following the logic of voting for one of the quiet floaters, I will Vote: Lil' Scouty (Scouty). This vote may change, but he strikes me as very quiet when he could be very vocal!

[Scouty]

This vote may change, but he strikes me as very quiet when he could be very vocal!

Can't be vocal when I don't know what or have anything to say. Else I'd just be sputtering nonsense and fluff, which is just as helpless. Nor have I gotten into the game as much as I could (yet), either, so that's contributing to my low participation. Take of that what you will. Remember the difference of this game from the typical game we play in class. So don't assume based on any past game except EB Mafia I, which I feel is being done. Now I suggest you look for the other floaters you believe there are instead of choosing the easy one that a couple others have already voted for (which TheBoyWonder is one).

[XimenaPaulina]

Alright, let me explain things from my perspective.

snip

Day One lynches are a bugger, and it can be easy to grasp at too many straws and end up barking up the wrong tree, but I gotta tell ya, that's exactly what's happening here, brother.

I'm quite satisfied with your answer Li'l Redblade, and I feel my vote will be of better use for other lynch candidates, so I'll Unvote: Li'l Capt. Redblade.

I'm leaning towards Li'l TrumpetKing right now, but I'll wait for what he has to say regarding the accusations against him.

[TheBoyWonder]

I am aligned with the town.

Lil'Trumpet King yet again raises my suspicions. As others have said, he is tunneled on Lil'Zepher, as if there was evidence guaranteeing his allegiance. When asked to provide a reason, his excuse was "Inconsistencies". Have you seen any? I for one haven't.

So, in my humble opinion, this is not good.

Vote: Lil' TrumpetKing

[CorneliusMurdock]

Of the candidates put forth so far, I'd be more inclined to vote for TrumpetKing. I would like to hear from him first and don't want to start more momentum on any bandwagons so I'll hold my vote for now.

but a few people have poped up on my radar; more on that later!

Habemus Papum! I can't wait to find out who it is...

[Hinckley]

Sorry I'm late, guys, I was filming my own Harlem Shake video!

Sorry I have been gone, guys!

Small and subjective point: you're excuses for not being around seemed odd to me. Nobody's asking where you were, yet you pre-defend yourself for not being around. I think Scum think small things can give them away, like long absences. Everything is somewhat magnified when you're in the informed minority. This isn't strong evidence, but with the rest of the the points made against you, can show that you are stuck in a Scum mindset.

Because if we come across the unlikely chance of making a tie, and one of the nominees happens to be scum, do you really want a scummy mayor? However, that would just put the mayor under scrutiny should they choose a town member to lynch.

But when we are trying to find Scum, we may choose to lynch a Townie. If the mayor is Town they may choose to lynch a Townie over a Scum, just reading the two players wrong. And how do we know they chose a Townie over a Scum, unless we're Scum? There are many ways a tie could be broken by the Mayor and a Townie ends up getting lynched. Your analysis seems lacking from a Town mindset. Townies lynch other Townies a lot in these games. If Li'l Corn breaks a tie and the lynchee is Town, we shouldn't just turn on him and assume that means he's Scum...unless you just want to see a Townie lynched yourself. I thought way down the road with that one, but that's how a Townie should look at that situation. Your analysis seems too quick to assume that the mayor lynching a Townie would mean he is a Scumbag himself.

I'm not taking it too seriously. At least, I don't think so. I'm trying to look at this at the point that although the role isn't important now, it could be at any point, so we should be wary of who we elect. So, I feel that it is less likely that Corny is scum due to his willingness to be mayor despite his previous experiences. However, he could be scum trying to dupe us by thinking this through. However, I see that less likely, because I'm not sure that a scum would bring themselves up so early, especially with the negative connotation that the mayor had last game. Because more evidence leads to him being town, I will Mayor: Li'l Cornelius Murdock. I feel like this is a decision that I can feel comfortable with at this point in time, as he does seem pretty trustworthy, being willing to volunteer himself like that.

I had meant that it was brave of him to do this after he was killed for doing the same last time, so I see him more likely as town. I do find it odd that he says he knows that he won't die on night one, though.

Here was your answer to my question. I still don't see how your feeling can be described as "more evidence". Perhaps that is just semantics. Yet, you do an odd little thing where you say it's suspicious that he says he knows he won't die, but you don't pursue it any further after that. Do you still find this suspicious?

Li'l Zepher, I don't know why you would say that. Now the scum know that you are apparently recruit-able, and that is not good. Though the masons also know you are recruit-able, I'm not sure who the recruiting goes to. I didn't see any rules about that earlier. I'm becoming more and more inclined to vote for you, even if you are town, because the scum now have an easy recruitment, and I am thinking that we need to stop that from happening.

But, if he's set himself up for "easy recruitment" why take away the Town's opportunity to have him watched and find out who would be trying to recruit? How nice would that be for the Watcher to have such a strong lead to pursue through the rest of the game. It could even lead to Town totally infiltrating and duping the recruiting team. Wanting to lynch someone you believe to be Town is just weird.

Li'l Cecilie said she didn't recall seeing that. The odd thing is that it appears that after she said that she left without filling us in on if her PM actually did say that. That gives us an O.K. lead on her. Not super strong, but it does seem pretty scummy.

I must've missed this, but how was this a good lead on Li'l Cec?

Li'l Hinck, it's actually interesting that you bring up the lie detector. I do believe that Mr. def said that most of the roles would remain the same in this game from the last, so it actually is going to be useful to do that just in case.

I am aligned with the town. (Also just in case)

I remember feeling a little "ping" when I first read "just in case" twice in your statement. That's another small point, but it did stand out to me.

I don't know, I know we shouldn't be using the role PM's to our advantage, but I find it odd that he claimed with his PM in mind and then said "Oh, no, I read it wrong". Those sort of things are kind of hard to believe because we don't know for sure whether he is telling the truth or not, especially when he is referring to something private. The thing that strikes me odd though, is that he went from a pretty townie PM claim to a claim that says he didn't know. It seems pretty hard to mess something like that up. He said he could be converted by either scum or masons at first, and then said he reread it and didn't know if he could. Saying he didn't know is quite different from his original statement of being pretty sure he could be converted. I think that seems odd..

But, I think he went from a somewhat weird and Scummy claim to a much more Townie sounding claim and find it odd that you see it as the opposite.

In this setup, Townies may be feigning Scum-tells to stop the two sides of the Scum team from uniting. The Scum-tell of Li'l Trump seems more like a Scum mindset. If he was a Townie, I doubt he would choose such a "Scum tell" to feign. It's rather elaborate. Maybe he's just a flailing Townie trying a bit too hard, but for Day One, he's done enough to get my vote. Vote: Li'l Trumpetking (Trumpetking)

Now I suggest you look for the other floaters you believe there are instead of choosing the easy one that a couple others have already voted for (which TheBoyWonder is one).

Any reason why you don't vote for Li'L Boy if you think he's a good candidate?

[TrumpetKing]

I hate voting for Zepher because I think he's town. But, his "inconsistencies" are because in one post he was saying he had a vanilla PM and in another he was saying he had a PR PM. I think it is pretty clear that he can't be both. The reason I'm voting for him is because he has leaked his PM information somehow, and now the scum will try to convert him, along with the masons, and I believe some have said that when masons and scum have the same target, it goes to the scum. We won't be getting a scum in lynching him, and I'm not all for lynching townies, but this is one exception that needs to be made, unless the vig would like to take care of that. I would be happy to unvote Li'l Zepher, because if you take away the things from the PM, (which we shouldn't be talking about, me included), there really is nothing against him. And as a side-note, Li'l TBW, I wasn't asked to provide a reason. That wasn't an excuse. I explained that in my original post where I voted for him.

Unvote: Li'l Zepher

Zepher, I'm sorry about the trouble. We really shouldn't be talking about the PM, so you have a clean slate in my mind.

[Scouty]

Any reason why you don't vote for Li'L Boy if you think he's a good candidate?

I'm tempted to do so, though I don't have time currently to structure a proper case against him, though I do think it's worth taking the effort to do so (which I wanted to do when I have some time in a couple hours). There's also the case against Trumpetking, which I feel is stronger than Li'l Boy, so I wasn't ready to place down a vote. From your post, I'd vote for Trumpet, just waiting from him to speak.

[Hinckley]

I hate voting for Zepher because I think he's town.

Unvote: Li'l Zepher

Zepher, I'm sorry about the trouble. We really shouldn't be talking about the PM, so you have a clean slate in my mind.

Something's really not right here... You think he's Town, but he's being inconsistent. Wh......I'm really lost now. If he's Town, what would the inconsistencies mean then? And the inconsistency (I'm tired of typing that word) you're referring to doesn't seem to exist. Can you point out where Li'l Zeph said he had a vanilla PM, and then said he had a PR PM? I don't remember that happening and I just re-read the entire day thread.

Oh derp. It says "unvote". That makes much more sense. I thought you were saying you thought he was Town and voting for him. My mistake. Sorry.

[TrumpetKing]

My absences were me just trying to be fun, Li'l Hinck. I actually was gone, I have schooling during the time the day started, which is why I was 4 hours later during Day 1, and I didn't have internet access the second time. And the Harlem Shake just came from others talking about it earlier.

I do find it slightly suspicious about CM's feeling stongly about not being killed. It makes me a little nervous. I would think that if he didn't get killed tonight, that might actually make him a good lynch target tomorrow because he feels so confident, actually.

Do we know that we have a watcher for sure yet? That's actually not a bad idea. I wasn't thinking about the watcher, and that would be smart. How you know about the watcher for-sure though is odd in a townie sort of way.

The lead towards Cecilie was that her PM wasn't similar to Zepher's, which actually isn't a very strong lead, because there are plenty of reasons why they weren't the same.

Explain how two just-in-case's is scummy, please.

Really, both of his claims were townie, seeing as how the PM's def provided in thread were provided. I think the vanilla one is more townie, though, because it is a lot more clear to what Zepher said in thread, I believe.