Eurobricks Mafia II: Mafia School: Day Two

[XimenaPaulina]

I must say, I'm quite surprised about Li'l Scouty's being overly defensive with all the accusations thrown at him. Call it metagaming, but it's not the Scouty that I've known since we were babies playing together. For a kid who has experienced many games like this, he seems to be buckling under the pressure, to the point that he seems to be resigned at a potential lynch, even though the voting hasn't begun yet. I tried to re-read remember everything what was said yesterday and I did find some questionable things he said that I find rather suspicious:

1. At the start of the voting, in his response to CMP's vote for him:

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If I had to point to who I think would be scum, it would be you two, but honestly, it's only my gut talking and not my brain, but it's good to get such suspicions out.

He mentioned he's suspicious of me and CMP, yet he didn't further elaborate or even make a case against one or even both of us. He could've cast a vote on any of us, to illicit our reactions and hopefully get some behavioral analysis on us. That's the point of voting right? And that's what a townie would do right?

2. In the middle of the voting, he says this when he got his third vote from Zeph:

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Now I suggest you look for the other floaters you believe there are instead of choosing the easy one that a couple others have already voted for (which TheBoyWonder is one).

Again, he could've put up a case against Li'l BoyWonder or voted for him instead of simply deflecting the accusation against him for being silent. I believe Li'l Hinckley boy also pointed this out. Though after the the lynch against Li'l Trumpet was almost sealed, that was only the time he made his case and vote for Wonderboy.

3. Then this today:

Ha, I knew Li'l Danny's case against me was bull. Well, good for his death, then.

Trying to clear himself just because the one who voted for him turned out scum? I highly doubt a true townie would say something like that. Or is it to tone down the suspicion of your primary accusers (CMP, ChromeKnight, Zeph)?

4. But what struck me the most is when he emphasized on a couple of instances yesterday that his silence is due to the "different set-up" of the game:

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Also, "doesn't ring townie to me" congrats, you're getting the point of the game .

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Can't be vocal when I don't know what or have anything to say. Else I'd just be sputtering nonsense and fluff, which is just as helpless. Nor have I gotten into the game as much as I could (yet), either, so that's contributing to my low participation. Take of that what you will. Remember the difference of this game from the typical game we play in class. So don't assume based on any past game except EB Mafia I, which I feel is being done.

Is he implying that he is a townie that is pretending to be silent to act scummy and hoping to get in contact with the scum teams? But think about it, if you're indeed a townie who's just trying to act scummy, then why remind people about the unsual set-up of the game? (and even twice!) Wouldn't that just blow your cover that you're a townie that's just trying to act silent/scummy? (if you're indeed a townie).

Since the voting is now open, I'll Vote: Li'l Scouty

Again, my vote is subject to change depending on Scouty's respone.

[Hinckley]

I'd have been surprised if no scum at all voted for me. And I'd be surprised if some didn't as well. But, as long as you promise not to tell anyone else, I can tell you I'm not on either scum team so you've got nothing to worry about Hinck.

Scouty, you can come on back with that analysis now.

OK, your secret is safe with me but rumors tend to spread quickly around the schoolyard. I do find it potentially interesting that our theories match though. I was thinking that I wouldn't be surprised that some people in this game were Scum and that I wouldn't be surprised that some weren't Scum as well. You know what they say: Grape vines think alike. Am I learning it good, mr. def?

As for Scouty, I think we should give him a chance to answer the many points brought against him. He was cranky last time we spoke to him. Maybe nap time has cleared his cwanky wittle head. Daaaaaaaw, he's so cuuuute when he's so sweepy.

[Capt. Redblade]

As for Scouty, I think we should give him a chance to answer the many points brought against him. He was cranky last time we spoke to him. Maybe nap time has cleared his cwanky wittle head. Daaaaaaaw, he's so cuuuute when he's so sweepy.

I would definitely encourage Li'l Scouty to answer his accusers. His outburst was not consistent with what I have come to expect from him and that worries me deeply. I know it sounds metagamey, but his abnormal behaviour is screaming at me that something is afoot.

[Rick]

Ok I just had a thought. I'm reading on what Danny said yesterday, not everything yet, and I keep thinking he's a strange target. I mean, what did he do that so blatantly painted a target on his back??

Then, I see that Trumpet had voted for him. Perhaps, after Trumpet came out of the scum closet, as a ruse, Danny contacted him? And then Trumpet told another townie (someone reading this) who had Danny killed??

What do y'all think of this?

That it's really unlikely that li'l Trumpet knew the identity of the vig yesterday (unless he was the vig himself and that explains that there was only one kill last night) and that you're mightily interested in what happened surrounding that sting as li'l Foog already pointed out yesterday evening.

I think that covers Rick's points. Please let me know if I missed anything.

I didn't raise multiple points, I simply said that what you said this morning could easily be read as you trying to suggest you're town just because li'l Danny turned out to be scum. Instead of shrugging it off and simply saying "of course it doesn't clear me", you get defensive and - as li'l Pie already pointed out - even suggest that it ensures you're not on Danny's team. After reading everything you said today, I get the impression you're constantly switching between staying calm and answering others and getting really defensive.

[Piratedave84]

SNIP

Then, I see that Trumpet had voted for him. Perhaps, after Trumpet came out of the scum closet, as a ruse, Danny contacted him? And then Trumpet told another townie (someone reading this) who had Danny killed??

What do y'all think of this?

Why are you trying to find out how the ploy may have worked? Fishing for information seeing if anyone bit and did contact Trumpet?

[Nightshroud99]

That it's really unlikely that li'l Trumpet knew the identity of the vig yesterday (unless he was the vig himself and that explains that there was only one kill last night) and that you're mightily interested in what happened surrounding that sting as li'l Foog already pointed out yesterday evening.

Yes, I also brought up the bleak possibility that he could have been the vig. File that under the sucks-megablocks list of scenarios.

I don't get it, of course I'm mightily interested in what may have happened yesterday. Why wouldn't you be?? There are potential leads; unfortunately I'm beginning to suspect that nothing else may come out of this.

One townie for a scum is a pretty good result at this stage of the game. Let's hope li'l Trumpet was able to accomplish something with his little sting. I think it has been established already that we can't draw any definitive conclusions from last night's kill.

You seemed interested yourself in what may have happened earlier. Not mightily interested, but probably because you don't care.

This being said, I'm inclined to vote for Scouty because of his erratic behavior and untownliness. No one else has really pinged my Scooby-Doo scumdar. Although, I'd like to hear more from Li'l Boywonder someday.

Vote: Li'l Scouty

[Zepher]

I think (hope) that Trumpet would have told us if he were the vig. It would have been worth mentioning.

I too will wait for Scouty, but my vote will be cast on him unless he makes a compelling and even case against it being cast on him.

[Hinckley]

I don't get it, of course I'm mightily interested in what may have happened yesterday. Why wouldn't you be?? There are potential leads; unfortunately I'm beginning to suspect that nothing else may come out of this.

I'm sure everyone's interested in what may have happened. But your analysis has gone from "that's a ploy that was easy to see through" to "maybe Li'l Trump's ploy found Danny to be Scum and the vig had claimed to the highest vote-getter who was claiming to be Scum and they swapped info and that's how Danny got killed." It's easy to come up with multiple scenarios with this unique concept, but your analysis seems forced as they contradict each other.

A sting huh, I suppose that is a decent gambit at the end of your life. Somebody probably told lil Trumpet to do this however, otherwise I doubt anyone would have believed what he said if info was learned, until today. Hopefully something came out of it.

Yeah I called him out, I think everyone was thinking the same thing as me. I mean come on, it's pretty dumb for a scum to fall for a ploy like that; and if he was scum I hoped to put some seeds of doubt in anyone trying to contact him. It's a really big gamble for scum to make on day 1, whether pulling the ploy themselves or contacting Trumpet.

If we were all thinking the same thing as you, why did nobody else call him out? And your statement seems to say there were two reasons for calling him out. What exactly is the point of calling him out if he's Town? Your second sentence there is giving me a headache. You're saying Li'l Trump had to have been coached otherwise what now? Otherwise you doubt anyone would've believed him if info was learned until today? What on Earth are you saying? I don't follow you. Can you please explain that?

Since the voting is now open, I'll Vote: Li'l Scouty

Again, my vote is subject to change depending on Scouty's respone.

Thinking back on EB I, I'm reminded that Scouty was running a gambit there too. He was poking around by PM to trip up Scum. Incidentally, I flipped out and eventually got us both killed . At the point I called him out for what he was saying in private, he gave up there too. He said "I was trying to draw out Scum!" instead of continuing to play at being Scum in order to find the other team. Admittedly, we both screwed that up, but that's already been thoroughly analyzed. My point is, although he similarly gave up on his ruse last time, his ruse was kind of lame this time. And it has two different excuses. At first he says he's quiet because he's busy and then he adds, being quiet seems Scummy and therefore he was trying to seem Scummy to draw out Scum.

[TheBoyWonder]

Sorry, been in hospital all day.

Anyway, on topic, I want answers from Scouty. As well as my fellow low poster Paladatharic.

I want to do something Bold today,but not sure what. Maybe I should ask Peanuts?

[Nightshroud99]

I'm sure everyone's interested in what may have happened. But your analysis has gone from "that's a ploy that was easy to see through" to "maybe Li'l Trump's ploy found Danny to be Scum and the vig had claimed to the highest vote-getter who was claiming to be Scum and they swapped info and that's how Danny got killed." It's easy to come up with multiple scenarios with this unique concept, but your analysis seems forced as they contradict each other.

I think a lot in real life. So I always come up with multiple scenarios for everything, as a result this time I decided to post it and i can see my thought process get's muddled and overlaps at points.

If we were all thinking the same thing as you, why did nobody else call him out? And your statement seems to say there were two reasons for calling him out. What exactly is the point of calling him out if he's Town? Your second sentence there is giving me a headache. You're saying Li'l Trump had to have been coached otherwise what now? Otherwise you doubt anyone would've believed him if info was learned until today? What on Earth are you saying? I don't follow you. Can you please explain that?

I gave too much credit to other players, clearly not everyone was thinking the same thing. And, since no one else did call him out, I reckon it's partly because not everyone was on to see it?

lol I have to admit my train of thought is confusing. Really, there was no reason for me to call him out. If anything it shouldn't have been brought up until today. I messed up there. He may have been coached; he may not have. I'm just saying it's an option that someone else came along and said that he should do this, because they think he's probably town. Perhaps an influential player.

Or he came up with it all on his own, which is entirely plausible, and as a result maybe anything he did learn wasn't passed on.

[Capt. Redblade]

Or he came up with it all on his own, which is entirely plausible, and as a result maybe anything he did learn wasn't passed on.

Thing is he didn't reveal his gambit until his fate was effectively sealed, so he must have known there was a chance he'd die. It would have been stupid to take that risk if he couldn't pass on any info he might have gained to someone somehow.

[def]

Vote Tally:

Li'l Pirate Dave 4 (penalty x 4)

Li'l Scouty 2 (Kiel, Nightshroud)

[Palathadric]

Anyway, on topic, I want answers from Scouty. As well as my fellow low poster Paladatharic.

What do you want answers for? I'm sorry that I'm not contributing much, but honestly I've been really blank today and even yesterday. To me either Nightshroud or Scouty seem to be the people to vote for, but I can hardly say that I find them more scummy than anyone else here. Li'l Nightshroud has made some odd comments at the end of yesterday and today, but I can't really say I got a scummy vibe off him most of yesterday, which has started to make me hesitant. Scouty has been acting odd, but for some reason I don't really think he actually is scum.

There's a certain amount of gut feeling that has to go along with the bare facts, at least for me. Normally everyone is pinging my scumdar and I am really paranoid as I see "scummy" signs everywhere, but that doesn't seem to be happening this time around.

[CMP]

Whoops. Vote: Li'l Scouty. If you decide to come back and defend yourself, I might reconsider.

[Endgame]

I'm sorry for my absence, folks. I've been hosting a quest in the Heroica forum, and that stuff is time consuming! Luckily, they just murdered my final boss, so...

The points being picked in Scouty's every word is amounting up, and I've yet to see any defense from him besides "you are looking too far into me." My vote is subject to change if he provides a more solid defense, but for now:

Vote: Li'l Scouty (Scouty)

Would bold it twice to compensate for someone, but alas...

[Scouty]

I mean what I said. I'm done, and feel all the better of not stressing about it anymore.

Still, I'm glad that there's at least one person that's looking at others, cheers Li'l Hinck. Honestly, about 20 hours from my last post and there's just been Hinck while the rest of you wait on me, when I said I wouldn't talk anymore. Don't wait for me, I have nothing more to say about the past. Plus, it's doubtful that anything else I'm going to say will be satisfactory to everybody, so why bother? It didn't do any good before, I have great doubt it'll have any now. I know what happens in these situations (of course it'd be my preference to continue living, however that may be achieved), so why stress about it? Hakuna Matata.

Oh, I should vote, too.

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder

He hasn't addressed anybody's suspicions against him, and I just find his posts odd.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm sorry, Li'l Scouty, but that's a dumb attitude to have. You signed up for this, play. Otherwise you're wasting space. Don't expect respect from others if you don't have any for yourself.

To me either Nightshroud or Scouty seem to be the people to vote for, but I can hardly say that I find them more scummy than anyone else here.

That statement is so awesome, I'm just going to bask in it's awesomeness for a while...

[Scouty]

I'm sorry, Li'l Scouty, but that's a dumb attitude to have. You signed up for this, play. Otherwise you're wasting space. Don't expect respect from others if you don't have any for yourself.

Things just didn't work out. I got picked out before I had a chance to really contribute to things and I had to focus on that. I didn't handle it well, and that's regrettable. But now, it's gotten to the point where I respect myself enough to not get so stressed over an online game...especially what I went through last time, which was not too long ago. I needed to release from the situation and do what I still can for my team before I go. It's dumb, but it's the right thing for me to do at this time. Not build a defense that I'll probably screw up and get stressed out over it.

[Hinckley]

But you didn't get voted out last time and you were part of a Town block. Yes, it stressed you out but you learned from it. I respect not wanted to get stressed out but the opposite end of the spectrum isn't quitting. I don't want to vote for someone because they're giving up. If you want to quit, let a reserve take your spot. We can lunch him. that's a joke.

I don't understand what you're doing...

Stupid phone. WANTING and LYNCH.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Yes, but what are you doing for your team? If you're on our side, you're making us lynch a fellow townie. If you're scum, your team will also be down a player.

I'd appreciate at least something more from you than "I'm not going to talk anymore".

[Fugazi]

Well this is a difficult day. There's not much to go on as far as I can tell, and if there was solid evidence against anyone it wouldn't be made public in the interest of keeping scum teams from uniting.

I find it's early in the day and in the voting process for Li'l Scouty to give up, which is perhaps more the attitude of an isolated townie rather than that of a scum member who has a team to support and supporting him. Were he scum, I would also have expected at least a vote in some other direction by now, which hasn't happened. Unless Scouty was the only partner of our now departed friend Li'l Danny. That could explain the negativism, but I will admit myself that it's a far-fetched theory.

And to reflect Li'l Palathadric's musings, I don't have suspicions to share at this stage beyond my statement of yesterday concerning Li'l Nightshroud. I think I will go and have a nap with my highly collectible Tom Cruise F-14 pilot action figure and see if anything comes out of it (the nap, not Tom Cruise).

[Piratedave84]

This game seriously does my head in;

- We are in the process of lynching someone who may very well be town because this person is now refusing to participate based on the fact some other kids picked on him.

- Any matter of pertinent information cannot be shared or will not be shared for fear of the scum using it to unite

- Everyone is paraniod at everyone; so far as we know 2 maybe 3 players(if a massonic conversion was successful) can trust each other and that's it.

My mind is seriously ducked!

This being said, I am still enclined to vote for Scouty simply because he seems to have given up; I know how frustrating and stressful it can be to be scrutinized but to give up is not an option IMO!

[Zepher]

I find it's early in the day and in the voting process for Li'l Scouty to give up, which is perhaps more the attitude of an isolated townie rather than that of a scum member who has a team to support and supporting him. Were he scum, I would also have expected at least a vote in some other direction by now, which hasn't happened.

His scum team would also be pressuring him. I can't say I love his attitude, but in my experience scum rarely resigns to their fate, and never do in an angry manner, instead going the "I guess if nothing else, it's best for the town" route, hoping to garner sympathy. This does seem like a pissy ploy of a townie. A townie who has a really stinky attitude, but still a townie... which puts me at a bit of a lose too. The flailing is scummy, the giving up is not, and other than the slight pings (Pirate Dave WAS also a bit flaily when I accused him), I've got nothing really to go on. I'm going to give it a bit more time before I vote for Scouty.

It didn't do any good before, I have great doubt it'll have any now. I know what happens in these situations (of course it'd be my preference to continue living, however that may be achieved), so why stress about it?

We've told you how it may be achieved. We've all asked you to analyze other players a number of times, and you yourself said you'd do it. You said a vague thing about Boy Wonder. We're trying to feed you a way to help yourself and help us, but you refuse continuously. I'm with Lil' Hinckster, whatever side you're on, please don't just clamp up. It's no fun for anyone, and is rather against the spirit of the classroom.

[Scouty]

First, my apologies, especially to CMP, you're just doing your job. I did not want to quit the game, I just wanted space from the accusations.

It's a pretty casual response if you ask me. In hindsight it looks as if you just shook off my argument with "It's Day One, I'll do better tomorrow" and turned your suspicion right on the two people who had even bothered to make any cases. I call you out on that last thing, and you respond...

My mistake was not taking your vote more seriously. I thought it more to be those kind of votes you make to just get quieter people to talk a bit more, then you move on to the next person, not a serious case that I would have taken more seriously were it not made at the half of Day One. It was my expectation that my reply would satisfy that, but that nobody went to any other quiet folks annoyed me. Wrong mindset, my mistake. I felt an aggressive attitude about the case (and especially when you said "nope, not changing my vote"). Then everything looked aggressive to me, which I thought shouldn't happen because anybody on day one is antsy and when pushed, they're not going to react well, especially if they haven't gotten into the groove of the game yet, which is difficult on the first day; for example: darkdragon in The Forest 2. She was pushed and she was lynched because of her reaction and came up a townie. This is what tends to happen and it's only the lesser chance that we hit a scum on Day One. This is, like, the curse of Day One.

On the fact of those who bothered to make a case, I don't find it entirely unreasonable that a scum might want to do that. Li'l Trumpet was town and Li'l Pandy didn't get any retribution, being the person who started the case against him. There's not as much risk in lynching a townie (if done right, which with high skill, I think, is possible) as one might think. I'm not saying Li'l Pandy is scum for lynching a townie, it's just an example. So then, I don't think it was entirely unreasonable to be suspicious of any cases made, especially when you see that a town member slips up (like me, being quiet) and becomes an easy target for a scum to set up. In this set up it's a little more riskier for scum to do, but it's still a good way for scum to see the reaction of the people they accuse and begin the process of uniting the two teams.

You want to appear scummy, I guess. If you really were just trying to attract attention to see if some scum would claim to you hoping you were the other team, well, that's fine, but if that's the case then the last thing you can be is selfish. These kinds of ploys will get you killed. You should know, I joined you in doing so in the first EB Mafia. You know the risk, so I doubt this is a sting, especially as your first meaningful was comment was you fearing for your life. If you really are trying to pull a sting, well, congratulations, you look like scum to me. Especially since you're seeing the "scum perspective" of valid accusations.

I didn't want to tell my tactic so quickly, but I panicked and hoped it would be a suitable explanation of why I was not so vocal the first half of Day One, but it didn't work. When that didn't work, I had nothing to go back to because that's all I had

You poke fun at Li'l Peanuts for a while and then get annoyed at Li'l Zepher because he's suspicious of you and anyone relatively inactive.

I don't know why you need to point out that I poked fun at Li'l Peanuts, that honestly should be a non-matter. I do believe there is a separation of "for fun" posts and "discussion" posts in the game, so I don't see why that should be put against me (as was the same for my "obligatory Big Cam post"............). For Zepher, I got annoyed that he was only suspicious of me. He hadn't gone to "anyone relatively inactive", still hasn't (unless I missed so today). Someone in his position, I should think, would be able to call out multiple inactive people at the same time, but it was just me. I took his vote against me as only a copy of yours, nothing more. Again, my mistake in not taking it as seriously, but I believe in your vote more (whatever that means) than his.

You say that his vote ensures you're not on his team. Where's this logic coming from? If it's really a last minute vote, he can vote for whoever he wants and it wouldn't make a difference on who's lynched, would it? All it would do is distance himself from you - something any two scum on the same team would want. This is absolutely by no means conclusive that you're scum or you're on his team, I'm just pointing out that it's faulty logic to think it clears you of being one of Danny's scum team.

The logic is that a scum wouldn't vote for his own team member. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in a game before, so I wouldn't expect that to be the case, thus Danny, my "team member" would not have voted for me.

You then accuse him of having laid heat on you by making the last minute vote, when earlier you imply to Zepher it was because he was just choosing a quiet townie at random, rather than to get at you in particular

That was not meant as an accusation of "just choosing out a quiet townie", but rather as a "your case is looking as ridiculous as Danny's". It was a pretty scummy thing for Danny to vote for the player (who he chanced at as town) with the second highest vote count. I'm not Danny, so whatever I say is theoretical and hardly conclusive, but just my humble opinion on the matter (no bias that it's because he voted for me )

And then you just get annoyed because you're being accused. It becomes a recurring theme, as anyone could see in any post since then.

This, above all else, is why I'm continuing to accuse you. You're annoyed because you're being accused in the first place. Not one place do I actually see you address anything thrown at you. Your response is to use guilt on your accusers, call it scapegoating, claim you're under serious scrutiny, etc...if you're so sure you're town, where's your defense? You can't use the fact that I'm accusing you as a defense. You can label it tunnel visioning, misguided focus...whatever. The reason I'm still making a case against you is because you're using circle logic. Your logic looks to me like you're fighting accusations against you on the basis that you're just being accused too much. You're stating the same things over and over and over. I don't blame you for that, it's not like later days when making a defense is easier. Right now...you're just using an alternative I find scummier than deflecting suspicion.

I thought I had explained my actions, my reasoning, enough and so I told what I could offer as an explanation of that. When the accusations kept coming in, I didn't have much to turn to except onto the accusations themselves. I'll admit that I narrowed myself quite a lot with these accusations and just put me in a position with my back against the wall, in a corner...over a death trap...with poisonous snakes and spikes and scum. I based my entire defense on the truth, like last time. I told the truth (as best I can, while in a conflict with what I can do in this game with out completely negating its effectiveness) and thought that to be my defense, and it still is.

I can still think of reasons that my living on would be beneficial. To point them out would be to negate them.

We've told you how it may be achieved. We've all asked you to analyze other players a number of times, and you yourself said you'd do it. You said a vague thing about Boy Wonder. We're trying to feed you a way to help yourself and help us, but you refuse continuously. I'm with Lil' Hinckster, whatever side you're on, please don't just clamp up. It's no fun for anyone, and is rather against the spirit of the classroom.

It doesn't, and hardly does (that I can recall), work that a heavily accused person successfully pointed out someone else suspicious enough to lynch. Lynches turn around, but hardly ever by the accused's actions. It's my opinion that I cannot offer someone more suspicious than I. I'm on the hot seat, I focus on that burning sensation first before I try and grab somebody, anybody to take my place. Under the point of the gun, anybody is worth grabbing to replace you. The worst part is that your judgement is impaired since there is a gun in your face, metaphorically. Which is why I asked that you yourselves do that instead of just looking so sternly at me as my eyes shift side to side, anxious, under such hot pressure. I'm just a wit'l beaver boy scout, mister ! No, I don't subscribe to such notions, never have, please understand this. I've tried so, it never worked for me (case in point what happened in this game).

[CMP]

Glad you're still willing to defend yourself.

My mistake was not taking your vote more seriously. I thought it more to be those kind of votes you make to just get quieter people to talk a bit more, then you move on to the next person, not a serious case that I would have taken more seriously were it not made at the half of Day One. It was my expectation that my reply would satisfy that, but that nobody went to any other quiet folks annoyed me. Wrong mindset, my mistake. I felt an aggressive attitude about the case (and especially when you said "nope, not changing my vote"). Then everything looked aggressive to me, which I thought shouldn't happen because anybody on day one is antsy and when pushed, they're not going to react well, especially if they haven't gotten into the groove of the game yet, which is difficult on the first day; for example: darkdragon in The Forest 2. She was pushed and she was lynched because of her reaction and came up a townie. This is what tends to happen and it's only the lesser chance that we hit a scum on Day One. This is, like, the curse of Day One.

You always have to take votes against you seriously. Just because it's Day One doesn't mean you can just slide past any accusations against you.

On the fact of those who bothered to make a case, I don't find it entirely unreasonable that a scum might want to do that. Li'l Trumpet was town and Li'l Pandy didn't get any retribution, being the person who started the case against him. There's not as much risk in lynching a townie (if done right, which with high skill, I think, is possible) as one might think. I'm not saying Li'l Pandy is scum for lynching a townie, it's just an example. So then, I don't think it was entirely unreasonable to be suspicious of any cases made, especially when you see that a town member slips up (like me, being quiet) and becomes an easy target for a scum to set up. In this set up it's a little more riskier for scum to do, but it's still a good way for scum to see the reaction of the people they accuse and begin the process of uniting the two teams.

So really the only reason you accused me and Kiel is because we actually got off our butts and decided to place votes rather than wait for someone else to come up with something? The reason Pandora's not getting any retribution is because you're the only person that would point fingers at someone on the basis that they formed a case, period, which should explain why this is a valid point against you. Just because I was willing to put myself forward and cast the first stone doesn't mean I'm scum. There are exceptions, obviously, but I'm not seeing one here.

I didn't want to tell my tactic so quickly, but I panicked and hoped it would be a suitable explanation of why I was not so vocal the first half of Day One, but it didn't work. When that didn't work, I had nothing to go back to because that's all I had

If you were serious about that risk, you should've seen it through to the end. Trumpetking did, even if it was last minute and (apparently) didn't work. We planned this sort of thing in the first EB Mafia, you should know that when you pull a ploy like this you're putting your life on the line in the hopes of catching a scum.

I don't know why you need to point out that I poked fun at Li'l Peanuts, that honestly should be a non-matter. I do believe there is a separation of "for fun" posts and "discussion" posts in the game, so I don't see why that should be put against me (as was the same for my "obligatory Big Cam post"............). For Zepher, I got annoyed that he was only suspicious of me. He hadn't gone to "anyone relatively inactive", still hasn't (unless I missed so today). Someone in his position, I should think, would be able to call out multiple inactive people at the same time, but it was just me. I took his vote against me as only a copy of yours, nothing more. Again, my mistake in not taking it as seriously, but I believe in your vote more (whatever that means) than his.

I'm not putting it against you, I just didn't want to be accused of taking posts out of context or whatever. When I accuse someone, I generally try and summarize and analyze everything they've posted, I only mentioned it for completion. And, well, I can see how that might be annoying, but if he's suspicious of you....oh well. Maybe he didn't state his case clearly enough? I can't exactly speak for him.

The logic is that a scum wouldn't vote for his own team member. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in a game before, so I wouldn't expect that to be the case, thus Danny, my "team member" would not have voted for me.

You've never seen a scum vote a fellow scum mate? Ever?

That was not meant as an accusation of "just choosing out a quiet townie", but rather as a "your case is looking as ridiculous as Danny's". It was a pretty scummy thing for Danny to vote for the player (who he chanced at as town) with the second highest vote count. I'm not Danny, so whatever I say is theoretical and hardly conclusive, but just my humble opinion on the matter (no bias that it's because he voted for me )

I don't exactly see how it's scummy, but he was scum, so...

What do you mean 'for the player he chanced at as town'? What makes you think he thought you were townie? Like we just went over, he could've been simply distancing himself from you....other than that, it doesn't make much sense for him to have voted for you than just adding a vote on Trumpetking's bandwagon. Not that I'm saying his logic would've been perfect and this is 100% indicative of you being scum.

I thought I had explained my actions, my reasoning, enough and so I told what I could offer as an explanation of that. When the accusations kept coming in, I didn't have much to turn to except onto the accusations themselves. I'll admit that I narrowed myself quite a lot with these accusations and just put me in a position with my back against the wall, in a corner...over a death trap...with poisonous snakes and spikes and scum. I based my entire defense on the truth, like last time. I told the truth (as best I can, while in a conflict with what I can do in this game with out completely negating its effectiveness) and thought that to be my defense, and it still is.

Only now are you truly actually addressing my accusations...my point is, your (previous) response to them was just to roll your eyes and get stressed/annoyed over them, which, well...isn't entirely unreasonable, but it sure as hell doesn't excuse it all.

It doesn't, and hardly does (that I can recall), work that a heavily accused person successfully pointed out someone else suspicious enough to lynch. Lynches turn around, but hardly ever by the accused's actions. It's my opinion that I cannot offer someone more suspicious than I. I'm on the hot seat, I focus on that burning sensation first before I try and grab somebody, anybody to take my place. Under the point of the gun, anybody is worth grabbing to replace you. The worst part is that your judgement is impaired since there is a gun in your face, metaphorically. Which is why I asked that you yourselves do that instead of just looking so sternly at me as my eyes shift side to side, anxious, under such hot pressure. I'm just a wit'l beaver boy scout, mister ! No, I don't subscribe to such notions, never have, please understand this. I've tried so, it never worked for me (case in point what happened in this game).

If he's asking for your suspicions, it's reasonable to share them. Even things you notice at a glance, I can understand how being accused doesn't leave you a ton of breathing room to look for more suspects.