Eurobricks Mafia II: Mafia School: Day Four

[Rick]

endgame : It's a term that was used at the end of one of the previous mafia games where one side could of won.

And Endgame is the player. It's a name so you capitalize it. That's basic grammar.

Oh, after releasing that, yes it shouldn't have been capitalized. I have an overly responsive phone, where the E key is close to the shift key.

What kind of keyboard has the shift key close to the "E" key? You were quick to reply to Redblade's post about the capitalisation of the word "endgame", but I can't help but notice you failed to address li'l Hinck's earlier accusations.

Why have I not jumped into bed with anyone? I'm not sure which grouping is scum.

No one has disputed what I've said.

It looks to me like you're trying to find out who's who by labeling people as red and blue and seeing how they respond.

I am not listed on either team because haven't consistently supported one group of people and attacked another.

The groupings are observations from the day threads. If you think I'm wrong, by all means point out specific issues with my breakdown. Or propose counter theories.... Or do something townish, go on.

Do you think the masons or other scum team you're looking for are going to obviously "group" themselves in the playground if the whole point is to prevent the scum teams from uniting? It's interesting you're only identifying two groups instead of three. To me, it suggests you're not as much of an "outsider" as you want us to think.

But yes, my vote for Nightshroud stands. Why are you defending him? He has offered LESS explanation for ANY of his actions that Chromenight has. Why not go after Nightshroud? Is he one of your buddies?

By the same logic why are you defending li'l Chrome?

If you believe all five people li'l Chrome puts on team red are scum, there's another problem with your "analysis". They'd have to be the team of recruiters and have been very lucky in their recruitment. It's of course possible the scum teamed up already, but your "analysis" seems based on voting patterns from previous days. I agree with li'l Hinck that it's unlikely they found each other already, especially as early as yesterday.

[Pandora]

More later when home.

I'd still like to hear this. Is there more about the people who weren't mentioned in this post, and is there any particular reason you omitted them?

No one has disputed what I've said.

Disputing would be as informative as agreeing with you. Whether or not it would serve to bolster or diminish your argument is secondary to the nature of this game, where people actively distance themselves from each other. To my mind it's possibly more useful to look for people doing just that, but it is interesting to hear your views on events and relationships between players after you've been very quiet for so long, especially as I doubt anyone else is inclined to share their views on the same subject publicly.

[Chromeknight]

I was getting pings throughout, but maybe that is just because I'm paranoid. I know probing isn't necessarily a capital offense, but I started getting iffy around the part where Li'l Chrome was checking if I was the vig and said he was trustworthy "because he was trustworthy." I didn't unveil my suspicions in the PM, and not here because I figured I was just being overly paranoid throughout the entire set-up, but... Now, I'm not quite sure.

Thanks Endgame! It's telling that you assume I was hunting for the vigilante. Surely if you want to seriously suggest I'm scum you'd've been better suggesting i was searching for other scums and you (sadly, boohoo) had to disappoint me because "Endgame isn't scum, thanks, go look somewhere else"

I read over previous days and looked at who talked to whom (or at them).

I apologize for the lack of quotes to follow, I'm unexpectedly mobile,and don't have the analysis I wrote yesterday to hand. To summarize

More later when home.

So, for the dummies, life ambushed me and I could not post my analysis before bed, woke up to undstandable questioning about where it was. Posted as much as I could whilst mobile (including accidentally posting partway through writing). Had to stop writing part way through an alphabetical list, leaving off Redblade, rick, Walter, Zepher.

Posted replies a bit later having been flamed for even talking,

Genius, you can't be proven right or wrong. You've perfected the art of throwing out suspicions and yet still looking as indecisive as possible.

You're looking at things from a very scummy perspective. You seem more concerned with who's on who's team rather than who's scummy and who's not.

Maybe I should have just drawn the scum a roadmap, "hey guys, here's the town, here's the other scums you're looking for, here's the game, tanks for playing"

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight (Chromeknight)

Bloody team red huh, a lot of people seem scum to you. With this pessimistic view of things how do you suppose we townies are going

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. An automatic assumption that team red equals scum.

Guilty conscience much?

Lets test the theory.

vote:li'l nightshroud(nightshroud99)

I'd still like to hear this. Is there more about the people who weren't mentioned in this post, and is there any particular reason you omitted them?

Disputing would be as informative as agreeing with you. Whether or not it would serve to bolster or diminish your argument is secondary to the nature of this game, where people actively distance themselves from each other. To my mind it's possibly more useful to look for people doing just that, but it is interesting to hear your views on events and relationships between players after you've been very quiet for so long, especially as I doubt anyone else is inclined to share their views on the same subject publicly.

See above. I got crushed by time and the end of an alphabetical list got left off.

For the record

PirateDave reflexive OmFgus, hints darkly about a group of friends who don't trust others, clear now who those friends are(team red)

Rick exchange with Pandy metagamey, could indicate conversation behind scenes.

Walter indicates conversations going behind, but not seemingly aligned with CMP/Nuts, grouping uncertain, but not red.

Zepher not conversed much with Pandy, likely talking in other media, team blue

These groupings are based on day thread observations, counting how people quote (or not) others. The analysis is based on the general observation that scum rarely speak directly to each other, tending to use the whiteboard/pm chain/whatever.

[Endgame]

Responses in bold blue because segmenting all these quotes would be incredibly time consuming.

Thanks Endgame! It's telling that you assume I was hunting for the vigilante. Surely if you want to seriously suggest I'm scum you'd've been better suggesting i was searching for other scums and you (sadly, boohoo) had to disappoint me because "Endgame isn't scum, thanks, go look somewhere else"

You act as if knowing who the vigilante is wouldn't be valuable information to either scum team.

So, for the dummies, life ambushed me and I could not post my analysis before bed, woke up to undstandable questioning about where it was. Posted as much as I could whilst mobile (including accidentally posting partway through writing). Had to stop writing part way through an alphabetical list, leaving off Redblade, rick, Walter, Zepher.

Posted replies a bit later having been flamed for even talking,

A bit aggressive. Real life does happen, though - but why would you even make the Easter Sunday statement?

Maybe I should have just drawn the scum a roadmap, "hey guys, here's the town, here's the other scums you're looking for, here's the game, tanks for playing"

You seem awfully sure your analysis is right on the mark.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. An automatic assumption that team red equals scum.

Guilty conscience much?

Lets test the theory.

vote:li'l nightshroud(nightshroud99)

Going back to the "roadmap" bit mentioned earlier... you essentially provided a "map" that wasn't a map at all, because it lacked a key - then you lash out somebody who "misinterpreted" you never fully interpreted yourself. Your analysis seems to be causing more confusion then clarifying anything.

See above. I got crushed by time and the end of an alphabetical list got left off.

For the record

PirateDave reflexive OmFgus, hints darkly about a group of friends who don't trust others, clear now who those friends are(team red)

Rick exchange with Pandy metagamey, could indicate conversation behind scenes.

Walter indicates conversations going behind, but not seemingly aligned with CMP/Nuts, grouping uncertain, but not red.

Zepher not conversed much with Pandy, likely talking in other media, team blue

These groupings are based on day thread observations, counting how people quote (or not) others. The analysis is based on the general observation that scum rarely speak directly to each other, tending to use the whiteboard/pm chain/whatever.

It looks like my pings were not unfounded. You seem to be purposefully blissfully unaware in some parts, but seem to have a bit too much information in others. Combined with pings I've been getting previously, as well as your iffy and indecisive behavior:

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight (Chromeknight)

[XimenaPaulina]

I'm going on a limb here, and even as far as taking the risk of defending Li'l Chrome, but I just don't think he's scum. I have reasons to believe he's town, based on his behavior publicly and privately since Day 1. Unless he has been converted, which is not impossible but I highly doubt it considering there are more metagamely better convertee candidates, I'd like to believe he's still town. This might not matter considering a bandwagon is slowly forming against him, and it might be too late, but I think it's worth a shot especially since the town cannot afford another wrongful lynch today.

As far as my vote goes, I'd still go with my initial suspicion and vote for Li'l Pandy.

Vote: Li'l Pandora (Pandora)

[XimenaPaulina]

As far as my vote goes, I'd still go with my initial suspicion and vote for Li'l Pandy.

Vote: Li'l Pandora (Pandora)

Ah screw that initial vote, thinking about it if I'd like to give Chrome a fighting chance then I'd have to sway the vote towards Li'l Nightshroud.

Unvote: Li'l Pandora (Pandora)

Vote: Li'l Nightshroud (Nightshroud99)

I agree with Li'l Zeph's point, a scum wouldn't likely draw attention by giving that list of who he thinks is scum/town/team red/blue/whatever, not with the fortunes going their way at this point (minimal casualties on their part + successive wrong lynches on the town side). The way I see it, what Li'l Chrome did was more of a desperate townie move trying to help by "laying out his cards on the table".

Honestly, I'm not liking the chances of the town considering the numbers game seem to be approaching towards the town's demise, this well may be our last day together. But if this is our last stand then we might as well go down fighting.

[Peanuts]

Apart from Li'l Nightshroud, Li'l Chromeknight doesn't seem to have voiced any suspicions. All I can see is a list of people on two (town?) teams, but not who is scum, and who is town. It's almost like he hasn't even tried to find scum (assuming he's town) or doesn't want to incriminate the other scum team by accident (assuming he's scum). While both is possible, and none is good for the town, I'm inclined to believe the latter. He's been flying under the radar all the time, and it even sounds like he tried to fish for the vigilante behind the scenes.

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight

[Walter Kovacs]

Ah screw that initial vote, thinking about it if I'd like to give Chrome a fighting chance then I'd have to sway the vote towards Li'l Nightshroud.

Unvote: Li'l Pandora (Pandora)

Vote: Li'l Nightshroud (Nightshroud99)

I agree with Li'l Zeph's point, a scum wouldn't likely draw attention by giving that list of who he thinks is scum/town/team red/blue/whatever, not with the fortunes going their way at this point (minimal casualties on their part + successive wrong lynches on the town side). The way I see it, what Li'l Chrome did was more of a desperate townie move trying to help by "laying out his cards on the table".

Except that, for the past few days, Chrome has been promising us this amazing "analysis" he had been compiling. And when when it comes out, it's this list which tells us who has been talking to whom, and offers absolutely no insight into which players are scum. He hasn't even stated that the teams correlate to who he thinks are scum.

I'm afraid it's a classic case of scum trying to assemble some "evidence" that says nothing, trying to look like Town. At least it seems that way to me, and to a lot of other folks here as well.

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight (ChromeKnight)

And God help us if we are wrong. We desperately need a scum conviction.

[def]

Around 22 hours left in Day 4.

[Rick]

Maybe I should have just drawn the scum a roadmap, "hey guys, here's the town, here's the other scums you're looking for, here's the game, tanks for playing"

Then what exactly are you trying to do?

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight (Chromeknight)

[TheBoyWonder]

I also wonder what the hell ChromeKnight is doing, a suspicion list that no one can understand, then a casual disregard of our points.

Vote: Chromeknight

[Rick]

then a casual disregard of our points.

Didn't you disregard the points li'l Hinck brought against you earlier today?

[Pandora]

I've been thinking over the accusations against Li'l Chrome, and there are some good points. The analysis he posted, while not indicating his views on scumminess or towniness, was something that required a lot of work and effort. To actively seek out potential relationships across the playground requires effort. Whether or not he was right about it remains to be seen. Whether or not he's truthful about any of it also remains to be seen. I disagree with Li'l Zepher and Li'l Kiel that a scum wouldn't draw attention to something like this. I think perhaps they might, if they thought it might misinform the town or send a message to other scum.

For someone so quiet to suddenly appear with this doesn't quite fit. He made a point about not having much in the way of conversation going on in private, yet both Li'l Kiel and Li'l Endgame have mentioned their conversations with him. There is nothing stopping one lonely townie from contacting other people, but scum are often wary of private contact, unless it's with each other.

Vote: Li'l Chromeknight (Chromeknight)

[TheBoyWonder]

I answered the first bit, but must of not seen the second,

[Piratedave84]

I answered the first bit, but must of not seen the second,

I'm confused here; this statement pertains to what exactly?

[Hinckley]

I'm confused here; this statement pertains to what exactly?

I believe he's answering Rick's question about not answering the points brought against him.

I answered the first bit, but must of not seen the second,

And are you waiting for me to re-type the second part? It's not like it disappears once I type it once, you know. It's still there to be read. You mentioned that Peanuts must be looked into. Have you done that?

[TheBoyWonder]

I've looked at Peanuts again, but still can't make up my mind. Scum or misguided townie? At the moment I'm leaning towards Town.

As for your view I was sending up a smoke signal, I assure you I'm not. I have made mistakes, which I'm working my megablocks of to rectify. Although, some, like taking part in an earlier bandwagon, I cannot takeback, but I can try to reduce my guilty consience by taking part in the lynching of a scum.

[Hinckley]

I've looked at Peanuts again, but still can't make up my mind. Scum or misguided townie? At the moment I'm leaning towards Town.

Thank you. Is there anything specific that is making you lean towards Town? Are there quotes you could provide as examples of how he's Townier than Scummier?

[Capt. Redblade]

I've been thinking over the accusations against Li'l Chrome, and there are some good points. The analysis he posted, while not indicating his views on scumminess or towniness, was something that required a lot of work and effort. To actively seek out potential relationships across the playground requires effort. Whether or not he was right about it remains to be seen. Whether or not he's truthful about any of it also remains to be seen. I disagree with Li'l Zepher and Li'l Kiel that a scum wouldn't draw attention to something like this. I think perhaps they might, if they thought it might misinform the town or send a message to other scum.

He put some work into this, it's true, but not enough work. The non-categorizing of the list seems like he didn't want to single anybody out or draw attention to them, knowing some of them are scum. I guess he didn't want to accuse anyone strongly enough that we'd pay closer attention. Trying to contribute in a Townie-looking way, but not actually giving anything away.

Vote: Chromeknight

[Rick]

I've looked at Peanuts again, but still can't make up my mind. Scum or misguided townie? At the moment I'm leaning towards Town.

Next to this, in your statement earlier today (which li'l Hinck highlighted) you also mention that li'l Nightshroud was suspicious of li'l Cecilie and that this "perhaps should be looked into". When I read it, I wondered what you meant by that. Have you looked into that by now?

[Hinckley]

Nap time for Hinckley. ZZZzzzzzz... Before turning in, I wanted to point this out:

Why are we grasping at straws like this? We're really talking about if TBW capitalizes stuff? What happened to vote analysis, or behavior analysis. This is wasting our time. And it seems like you're doing it intentionally.

It's interesting that you mention that Endgame was capitalized and mentioned twice. It's the same exact thing Hinckley just said to me in private, Redblade. Any reason you two are in contact? No one else noticed it, and it certainly didn't seem noticeable to me.

Why is no one else outraged at Nightshroud's pop up and do something unexplained attitude?

You know who kept the voting between Pally and Peanuts even yesterday? They are the ones who kept it so that Pally was always one vote ahead of Peanuts. In this order...: Redblade, Hinckley, CallMePie. I'm not liking those three.

Will anyone else please give some thoughts?

I find it interesting at the beginning of the day that so many people seemed to dismiss Foog's statements yesterday. They my have been confusing, but he flipped town which means he was doing something, and everyone just dismissed them as a gambit. That seems like quite a waste of his efforts, and it seems like we're throwing out potential information.

I know this is going to be broad strokes, because it really is just basic instinctual blipping, but Cecile has actually been blipping my scumdar for pretty much the whole time. The fact that she is mayor now puts me even further on edge. We said scum wouldn't nominate/vote for each other for mayor, but perhaps now they are, and they put a mayor into position. It's a small role...

Hinckley, only today, has been blipping a lot. Perhaps he was converted, or maybe he's just letting his act down a little by accident. He seems very combative today, and very dismissive of some points, while pushing others. It is the sort of scum acting town activity that I've grown to recognize... sometimes.

Nightshroud too has been all over the place. For the whole game. Maybe its just his style, I don't know if I've ever played on the playground with him before, but its very blippy.

That's all I've got. Any thoughts? Am I wrong, am I right?

For the last two days Zepher has posted suspicions to test the waters for other people's opinions. Instead of presenting solid cases against people, he's seeing if he can spark other people into leading votes. I've been the target of these accusations both days and have asked clarifying questions about the accusations and Zepher sees no reason to respond. In fact, both days, he ignores my questions completely and votes for Nightshroud. He also never explained how we could utilize Foog's efforts for the benefit of the Town.

I know it sounds like I'm raising a beacon, but all game I've been a complete and utter sheep. I've been pussyfooting. The way I see it, with 14 people, and the chance of 7 scum, everyone needs to pull their socks up, and attempt to help.

And that's what I intend to do.

I must've missed your impressive sock pulling.

[Pandora]

I have made mistakes, which I'm working my megablocks of to rectify. Although, some, like taking part in an earlier bandwagon, I cannot takeback, but I can try to reduce my guilty consience by taking part in the lynching of a scum.

You have a guilty conscience for being on a bandwagon to lynch a townie, and you are assuaging that by "taking part in the lynching of a scum". You sound pretty certain he's scum. All of us who've voted for CK (actually most, not all) have done so because we believe there is a case against him, as we have believed each time we've voted (again most of us, but not all of us).

What you seem to be saying here is that you're trying to look townie by voting for someone you know to be scum. As I have pointed out before, your votes are often severely deficient in reasoning, but here you have escalated to certitude.

[Chromeknight]

It looks to me like you're trying to find out who's who by labeling people as red and blue and seeing how they respond.

Then what exactly are you trying to do?

I think you already answered your own question there.

I'll freely admit I was floating along in the game some. At the end of day three, my name was being kicked around for being quiet. I thought, that's fair cop, I need to put some work in. Not being a member of any group, I've had little to say because I don't know much. I don't have a power role to find concrete evidence against scum, nor have I been converted by masons or scum. All I could offer was what I could see in the day threads. I never offered it as anything other than that. I intended to spark conversation.

My method of presentation sucked a bit, and some have used that to dismsiss what I said out of hand.

I've been variously accused of not revealing enough, or revealing so much it must come from being a scum.

Responses in bold blue because segmenting all these quotes would be incredibly time consuming.

You act as if knowing who the vigilante is wouldn't be valuable information to either scum team.

You seem awfully sure your analysis is right on the mark.

Going back to the "roadmap" bit mentioned earlier... you essentially provided a "map" that wasn't a map at all, because it lacked a key - then you lash out somebody who "misinterpreted" you never fully interpreted yourself. Your analysis seems to be causing more confusion then clarifying anything.

A mix of unaware and informed? You mean, just like the disconnected townie that all along I've said I am?

I did not provide a roadmap. Deliberately so.

I know the scum need to find each other, would I be townie if I made it easy for them.

As for night shroud, he didn't misinterpret it. He interpreted it correctly. He read it as saying that he is connected to certain people. He looks at his private email chains/write board /whatever and sees that is true. And freaks out, asking for definitive answer, "you calling me scum?". To which I reply, that sounds like a guilty conscience, the exact reaction I was intending to provoke, so sure. I'll stand up and call you scum today.

Except that, for the past few days, Chrome has been promising us this amazing "analysis" he had been compiling. And when when it comes out, it's this list which tells us who has been talking to whom, and offers absolutely no insight into which players are scum. He hasn't even stated that the teams correlate to who he thinks are scum.

And God help us if we are wrong. We desperately need a scum conviction.

Amazing? Where did I ever promise amazing? I merely said I'd provide something, something to move me out of being a silent townie. (Though Pandy seems to find that impulse suspicious). As I said above, I deliberately didn't label the day thread groupings as scum and not scum in order to provoke a reaction from those with secrets to hide.

I succeeded.

Question is, are you going look at what I am pointing out?

Or just bleat about needing to lynch a scum while voting for a townie?

[def]

Under three hours to days end.

[Chromeknight]

Also, Endgame,

You assume I'm scum.

Then you conclude I'm hunting for the vig.

Surely a better conclusion from your (erroneous) assumption would be that I would hunt for the killer-scum team, since that is the scum aim?

Why draw such a piddly conclusion?

Perhaps you don't really think I am scum....