What is purist? Thoughts...

[Omicron]

It seems like people are relating the "Third Party" to LEGO too much. By them saying that anything non-LEGO is custom, that's like saying everything in the world is not official. Seems a but steep, I know, but they are separate brands and I can't understand why people can't use to brands and have to alienate the other one that isn't as popular and call it custom and call the other official. MegaBloks is a big established company, but I think just because most people use LEGO's they try and call the other one "non-official". Also if altering a brick makes it custom, w all have lots of customs because bricks get minuscule scratched and that would change the brick. That wouldn't be any different from cutting the brick in half. It's still modifying it. IMO, Anything except LEGO is not Official TO LEGO, per LEGO Standards. LEGO would be non-official for BrickArms since it isn't a BrickArms product. It just seems like people are seeing LEGO as a default.

Of course Lego fans use Lego as the default. Hence why they are Lego fans. And you're are completely misunderstanding the terms "custom", "customized", and "not-official". MegaBloks is not official to Lego for obvious reasons and vice versa, but they are compatible for each other. Either designs are not custom to one another, but whatever you make out of both is a custom because its modified.

Brands like Cobi, Megablocks, Warhammer, kreo, etc are third party brands and are not custom for Lego because they were not made with the intention of going with Lego. ustom vendors like BrickArms and BrickForge are third party customs and are custom for Lego and even MegaBloks and the others etc because that was the intention of the designers. They wanted to make what Lego did not and therefore added that branch for those wanting to step out of the light of Lego. Lego fans choose to not use either at times because it isn't Lego, hence purism.

That's like saying I don't like drinking Pepsi (third party brand) because I enjoy Coca Cola (main party), however I do like mixing liquor with Coke to make mixed drinks (customs).

-Omi

[ShaydDeGrai]

It seems like people are relating the "Third Party" to LEGO too much. By them saying that anything non-LEGO is custom, that's like saying everything in the world is not official. Seems a but steep, I know, but they are separate brands and I can't understand why people can't use to brands and have to alienate the other one that isn't as popular and call it custom and call the other official.

I think you are mixing concepts ("purist", "custom", "official", "third party") a little too freely here. To begin with, no one is saying that "custom" is inherently bad (if fact, custom can be very good and creative) and _I_ would say that any DELIBERATE alteration of a LEGO factory "pure" piece IS a custom one. Likewise anything that didn't come from a LEGO factory isn't an official (LEGO) part, it can still be a perfectly good part but as the AFOL community defines "official" for the purposes shows and competitions, third party parts simply aren't.

MegaBloks is a big established company, but I think just because most people use LEGO's they try and call the other one "non-official".

I don't think the crux of the argument is that "most people use LEGO." I think the bigger issue is that TLG developed the systems, filed the patents, invested in creating the market etc. and that people are sensitive to the idea that TLG almost went out of business at a time when cheap Asian knock-offs were flooding the market with low quality - in some cases toxic (e.g. lead, cadmium, arsenic and antimony) - parts that, in many cases were also being produced in clear violation of standing patents. Now MegaBloks is certainly one of the more legitimate clone brands (they at least wait for patents to expire before mass producing low quality, low end, rip-offs) but it still strikes a nerve with people. LEGO was the original and (IMHO) still pays the most attention to quality control; in my mind (and apparently in the mind of many others) THAT is what entitles them to wear the mantle of "official"

Now if TLG were to start making part compatible Tinker Toys, Lincoln Logs, or Erector sets, they would be the "unofficial" player in those markets, but the "LEGO system of interconnecting construction elements" is called "the LEGO system" for a reason, and everyone else is and will always be just a clone brand (MegaBlocks, Kre-O) or a third party augmenter (BrickArms, Big Ben Bricks). The concept of "official LEGO" is so ingrained in the minds of AFOLs at this point that there is absolutely no point in even mentioning the "LEGO" part of it - if you use the word "official" you have to be referring to the LEGO brand or there no point in using the word. Being "official Sluban" or "official Best-Lock" is right up there with being an official "BigMic" sandwich from red and gold themed burger joint called "McRonalds" with a side of "Crock-o-Cola"

Also if altering a brick makes it custom, w all have lots of customs because bricks get minuscule scratched and that would change the brick. That wouldn't be any different from cutting the brick in half. It's still modifying it.

The difference between a custom part and damaged one is the circumstances under which it reached its current state. If it was altered deliberately, it's custom; normal wear and tear, cracking, etc. is damage not customization. There are millions of "well loved" parts out there that are still both "official" and "pure" as most people define those terms. When a part changes from factory mint DESPITE one's best efforts to preserve it's original state, it is a very different thing than when someone DELIBERATELY ALTERS it to achieve a new state.

IMO, Anything except LEGO is not Official TO LEGO, per LEGO Standards. LEGO would be non-official for BrickArms since it isn't a BrickArms product. It just seems like people are seeing LEGO as a default.

As I said above, within the AFOL community, the "TO LEGO" part is the only "official" that's really worth arguing over. Other communities might not care, it's all a question of priority and context. I've got a five pound note in my desk left over from my last trip to Scotland and if I decided to photocopy it on this great color copier we've got in the office to hang the copy in my office as a bit of artwork, I don't think anyone would care (especially since I'm in the US). But I'm pretty sure that if I tried to buy a couple of forfar bridies in Edinburgh with my "official bank of Xerox" currency, the proprietor would not be amused.

To be honest I just don't see why people are so hung up on not being "official," only TLG produces LEGO parts, everything else is either clone, custom or supplemental. You don't need some abstract blessing to have fun with your collection, get over it. They are your bricks, do what you want with them and have fun. Don't ruin your own day by dwelling over what is or isn't "official" or "pure," that only matters for shows and contests and in those contexts, its just a rule we have to live with. Contest organizers could equally well say use only blue bricks or only bricks that were available in "official" Harry Potter kits, or any other arbitrary restriction they want. It's not worth arguing over.

[Vindicare]

MegaBloks(and the like) is non official when speaking about TLG. They're clone brands. Go take a look in Community, some people despise MB, while others tolerate their existence.

[Omicron]

MegaBloks(and the like) is non official when speaking about TLG. They're clone brands. Go take a look in Community, some people despise MB, while others tolerate their existence.

Technically Lego is a clone brand too.

Just saying.

-Omi

[Vindicare]

Ah, touché. that's true. But in our eyes, it's the real deal.

[Paul B Technic]

It is clear that views on this vary between people to a large extent.

To me if TLG sell it is is "pure", unless it has been cut, glued or coloured.

[Hrw-Amen]

If it is sold by LEGO it is LEGO pure and simple. If it is not then it is not pure LEGO.

Other brands such as Mega-Bloxs are what they are other brands. They are in no way LEGO, or even custom LEGO, they are their own brands like them or loath them.

Custom bits are parts made by third part companies (Or individuals.) with the express purpose of being used with pure LEGO to compliment it as they are making something that TLG do not but that people want.

[Luke_likes_Lego]

Ummmm, you've asked your question "what is purist" in a LEGO fan site, so it's reasonable to treat the question in the context of LEGO (as opposed to, say, 'Plastic brick construction").

From the member guidelines:

"Remember: Eurobricks is a LEGO fan site, thus we want most topics here to be LEGO related. If you find you are posting mostly non-LEGO topics then maybe you have picked the wrong site. (Just to clarify, M%g^ Bl&ks aren't LEGO....)"

What is it exactly you are asking / putting forward for discussion? Is it about plastic brick modelling or about lego modelling? How would you define purist yourself?

Cheers,

LLL

[splatman]

I don't know what exactly to make of the whole "purist" thing, though I do have a few "rules" regarding doing that LEGO thing myself.

The first time I seen the words LEGO Purists together, was on a website back in August, 2001. Cannot remember the URL (was not legopurists.com/.net/.org) and web searches turned up blank.

The site was by a group that despised things like castle walls, boat hulls, BURPS, baseplates with hills, etc, and a number of other things, No mention of clone brands, modding, painting, use of other materials (metal, cardboard, wood, etc.) or other toys, or custom items.

They had a logo; a circle with a blue capital LP in it. The site also had another logo: A LURP with a No symbol over it.

Anyone here have seen it? Is the site archived somewhere?

The site, it seemed, was about basic LEGO elements being the only thing that's "right", or something to that effect.

Give it a Splat!

[Lothos]

Well. If you're building with plastic blocks, and one plastic block says "lego" And another isn't made by lego, but works with lego, chances are the one with the "lego" print on the brick isn't from a customizer.

I think you're trying to make a big deal out of nothing, Bricks arms, warriors, etc, not lego. Sure, it's used with plastic, sure it works with lego, but it's not made by lego. Therefore, no longer "pure" in that sense. Does it matter? Probably not. Some people choose to use them, some don't. I don't see why it's a big deal.

[AmperZand]

Having read through this thread from the beginning, I should point out that there is a level of purism that's even more 'pure' than mentioned thus far. There are collectors, especially of older sets, CMFs and polybags, who won't even swap/add/remove TLG elements between sets. For them, it doesn't just have to be 100% LEGO parts, they only construct/display sets as TLG designed them.

I don't subscribe to that level of purism, but it is out there. In fact, I kit-bash and use third party elements from BrickForge, BrickWarriors, Brick Arms, Brick Fortress etc. I even customise a tiny bit by sometimes removing print from LEGO parts and other times yellowing fleshy ears and neck-lines.

[A2L]

To me this is very simple. By definition LEGO purist means parts that are made by TLG. How many ever times I read, I cannot think of other things that can be included in this.

And you can enjoy your bricks however you want. Use only LEGO parts as they are, or bend them, color them, cut them, melt them, mix other parts -3rd party, custom, modified, or even clones, competitors, wooden toys, whatever you want to use.

The following quote is bang on

To be honest I just don't see why people are so hung up on not being "official," only TLG produces LEGO parts, everything else is either clone, custom or supplemental. You don't need some abstract blessing to have fun with your collection, get over it. They are your bricks, do what you want with them and have fun. Don't ruin your own day by dwelling over what is or isn't "official" or "pure," that only matters for shows and contests and in those contexts, its just a rule we have to live with. Contest organizers could equally well say use only blue bricks or only bricks that were available in "official" Harry Potter kits, or any other arbitrary restriction they want. It's not worth arguing over.

[Boxerlego]

I am a purist when it comes to building, But what if I want to build with Air, or Water, or Electricity, or the power of Magnets. Does LEGO really have to own these elements for me to build with? My thoughts are this achieve what you can with the parts inside the box and batteries are not included.