Erdbeereis Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 And in 6 months time when this group and 2 others are campaigning to have other toys stopped - where has TLG got to go? They will have the choice between giving in again only with much worse consequences or a far far nastier court case. I know they are a toy company and have no political power but they have just handed power to these groups. Well, so far this is an isolated incident, so I would wait to see if anything like this actually happens again before worrying too much. I still think it looks more like TLG worded its decision in a way that appeased the accusers while still keeping its original plans. As the article said, originally they wanted production halted immediately, but TLG didn't give in to that. This leads me to believe that if this happens again in the future, TLG isn't going to be in as bad of shape as you think.
Amset-Rah Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Alright, I realize I'm not the biggest Star Wars Lego guy (Though I would love to get this set because of how beautiful it is and for parts), but the similarities between the palace and the Hagia Sophia is purely coincidental, and like others have said, if anyone's feet are put to the flames, it's Lucas for designing the palace. Lego was just doing an accurate depiction of the palace, and again, the resemblance is a coincidence and someone is just looking to stir up trouble. They can claim victory all they please, but Lego was going to end production in 2014 anyway, so the joke's on them, not Lego.
Ape Fight Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Ha! Brilliant! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-racist-menace-muslims-declare-victory-in-fight-over-antiislamic-lego-8555610.html 2014 is when it would cease production anyway - very clever Lego : ) I love Lego even more now.
strangely Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 The press release TLG just released is great. It's very humorous how many times they have to state the set is based on a fictional building. Too bad that those offended can't see that.
Leo604 Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Well, so far this is an isolated incident, so I would wait to see if anything like this actually happens again before worrying too much. I still think it looks more like TLG worded its decision in a way that appeased the accusers while still keeping its original plans. As the article said, originally they wanted production halted immediately, but TLG didn't give in to that. This leads me to believe that if this happens again in the future, TLG isn't going to be in as bad of shape as you think. So basically TLG managed to convince the critics to be satisfied with the 2014 deadline? In that case, I have why the TCA is claiming victory since in the long run nothing actually changed in regards to the set...
dont stop making Jabbas Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 So basically TLG managed to convince the critics to be satisfied with the 2014 deadline? In that case, I have why the TCA is claiming victory since in the long run nothing actually changed in regards to the set... Probably because at the start Lego said they would not stop production. Then a couple of days ago they said they would stop production in early 2014. Then today they are saying they always intended to stop in 2014. My question is if they always intended to stop early 2014 why they did not say that in January. The statement " production is planned until early 2014 and we are not going to change that because of these protests " would have been far more effective than "we are not stopping" "we are stopping 2014" "we were always going to stop 2014"
Leo604 Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Probably because at the start Lego said they would not stop production. Then a couple of days ago they said they would stop production in early 2014. Then today they are saying they always intended to stop in 2014. My question is if they always intended to stop early 2014 why they did not say that in January. The statement " production is planned until early 2014 and we are not going to change that because of these protests " would have been far more effective than "we are not stopping" "we are stopping 2014" "we were always going to stop 2014" Because, if I'm not mistaken, the whole issue was that the TCA wanted an immediate end to the production of Jabba's Palace. Just speculating here but I assume in the meeting TLG brought up the 2014 date and that the TCA was satisfied with that. The 2014 date probably wasn't originally brought up in January because the whole issue was around whether to stop the set immediately at that time. Regardless, on the whole I agree with your stance in that hopefully future sets won't be hampered by what happened here.
GregoryBrick Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) The statement " production is planned until early 2014 and we are not going to change that because of these protests " would have been far more effective than "we are not stopping" "we are stopping 2014" "we were always going to stop 2014" Far more effective at what? The toy industry is highly competitive. I believe TLG has little interest in making specific details about their production plans public if at all possible. There is very little detail from, and about, TLG's stance and response to this matter (which I am fine with). The EB response to it strikes me as a tempest in a teapot. Edited April 2, 2013 by GregoryBrick
jansued Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Well, so far this is an isolated incident, so I would wait to see if anything like this actually happens again before worrying too much. In the end, thats the thing we have to do. But from now on every new wave of toys will be endangered by political and pseudo-religious correctness.What about Jabba's Sail Barge in the Summer wave? What about Indian natives getting upset by Lone Ranger minifigs? What if there is a PoP 2? We lost a little bit of freedom. We won't notice it this time. But I'm afraid we definitely will notice it in the near future - wehret den Anfängen! Edited April 2, 2013 by jansued
dont stop making Jabbas Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 My concern is the future. By changing their statement they have given the protesting group the material to claim they have won. It looks like TLG changed what they were going to do in response to this groups pressure. Which encourages not only this group to apply more pressure but other groups to try their hand at pressure as well. I believe there is a real risk other toys will be stopped earlier than intended and that some may now not be made and I think that is unacceptable.
GregoryBrick Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I still say this is a tempest in a teapot. Most civil organizations, if they are at all savvy, are going to frame their press releases and public comments in a way that benefits them, so the TCA response is no surprise. You can get angry about the boogeyman of 'political correctness' if you want, but I am sure that TLG will continue to smartly avoid politicization, and I am sure that this small incident doesn't indicate a slippery slope anywhere near. And if there are future releases that people have a right to be upset about (unlike Jabba's Palace), then I hope that TLG doesn't produce them, and if they do, that they are taken to task for it. Or is the argument here that "any unjustified complaint invalidates any future justified complaint"? (As it happens, I can't even find a website for the TCA.) Edited April 2, 2013 by GregoryBrick
dont stop making Jabbas Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 What about future releases that people do not have the right to be upset about? If the group had a right to be upset I would not be having this debate. What about the next set that should not offend anyone but that a group claims does? What happens when a group says "you stopped producing Jabbas palace now stop producing this" when there are not existing plans to stop? What are Lego supposed to say in response to that?
Leo604 Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 What about future releases that people do not have the right to be upset about? If the group had a right to be upset I would not be having this debate. What about the next set that should not offend anyone but that a group claims does? What happens when a group says "you stopped producing Jabbas palace now stop producing this" when there are not existing plans to stop? What are Lego supposed to say in response to that? 1. First find out if there are legitimate reasons behind their upsetness (is that a word?) and see if they do have a right to be upset about a set. If not: 2. Use the same 'end of production' date and don't budge from that; if necessary they could provide the date outright when the complaints are first brought up if that's what you think is the right thing to do. At the very least, TLG made the right decision to smooth over the ruffled feathers in that meeting even though the TCA exaggerated the issue and 'similarities'. I think that the same method would work in the future if this sort of situation occurred again.
Rexworth Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) If only they knew Star Wars history, maybe they would understand why it looks like a mosque-like temple. It is because it IS a B'omarr Order temple. http:/starwars.wikia.com/wiki/B'omarr_Order You know those Spider like things with brains in glass jars walking around in the tunnels of Jaba's Palice are B'omarr Order MONKS. The monks look for enlightenment. The monks are not bad. The temple is not bad, the monks are not bad, it is JABA that is bad. Edited April 2, 2013 by Rexworth
dont stop making Jabbas Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 Point 2 is exactly what Lego did not do in this case. Instead they started with "we will not stop production" went to "OK we will stop production then" and followed it with "Oh we were going to stop then anyway" All they had to say in that meeting was that toy was based on a fictional place with fictional characters and had no relevance to Islam whatsoever and so the complaint was unjustified."fantasy funkdome" Their problem next time this happens will be that "fantasy funkdome" has a planned production run of another 2 years (24 months) and they are going to be facing people telling them that they stopped Jabbas Palace within 12 months so they must stop "fantasy funkdome" within 12 months. That gives them a choice of revealing they misled people about stopping Jabbas Palace because of protests to "smooth feathers" or coming up with a reason why the complaint about "fantasy funkdome" is less serious than the one about Jabbas Palace. Neither option gives much hope of happy smooth outcome.
Rexworth Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 The problem is that there are SOME people who can never be satisfied about their image. They take offense from anything that THEY think might be about them. This goes for all races/religions/people, SOME small portion of a group will be offended about anything THEY think is about them. They have little evidence it is about them but evidence does not matter. What matters is THEY think it is about them. Political Correctness is Guilty and you prove Innocent. You have to prove to somebody that something is not about them to somebody they think something is about them. It should be the other way around. THEY have to prove it something is about them. Star Wars is a story. It is NOT about them. It has nothing to do with them. They have to prove it is about them. TLG should NOT have to prove anything about a Lucas Art's story.
dont stop making Jabbas Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 The problem is that there are SOME people who can never be satisfied about their image. They take offense from anything that THEY think might be about them. This goes for all races/religions/people, SOME small portion of a group will be offended about anything THEY think is about them. They have little evidence it is about them but evidence does not matter. What matters is THEY think it is about them. Political Correctness is Guilty and you prove Innocent. You have to prove to somebody that something is not about them to somebody they think something is about them. It should be the other way around. THEY have to prove it something is about them. Star Wars is a story. It is NOT about them. It has nothing to do with them. They have to prove it is about them. TLG should NOT have to prove anything about a Lucas Art's story. I totally agree and that is what is making me angry
Faefrost Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 This problem could be the same if TLG ever decides to release LOTR Haradrim (perhaps Men of Rhun) sets, if muslims or middle eastern people also find this offensive ... Then they get cancelled too :( And yet there was no condemnation of the Prince of Persia line and its vast array of Hassasim?
def Posted April 2, 2013 Posted April 2, 2013 If the group had a right to be upset I would not be having this debate. Are you a Turkish Muslim? What right do you have to tell people what they can and can't be upset about? You should keep up with your Facebook group if this issue upsets you so much, and have at it with TLG to get them to overturn their statement, showing that, what, they ignore the voices of minorities? Not that the group is right, but it would be very negative publicity for TLG to reneg on this agreement. It would be a big middle finger to the group. What would that say to future groups who took issue with something? It says LEGO doesn't care, and they should take their business elsewhere. But, if you are some white person living in the west, you probably have no idea what they were thinking, and should be a lot more measured in your criticism. Not trying to be political (any more than when this topic was beaten to death when it first appeared and moved to the Culture/Multimedia area), but if you look at the user picture thread here, you'll see that this site is pretty white (80%? 90%?) and probably often middle-class or higher (poor kids can't afford LEGO), and frankly, I find it embarrassing the degree to which people casually brush off, and in some places, insult these groups. It's bratty and spoiled. I'm not saying all minorities would automatically sympathize on this issue, but when a whole lot of the majority behave like this, it's embarrassing for me to be part of the majority. Good luck on your Facebook project to get TLG to tell that minority group TLG doesn't care about them, so you can get your Jabba
Erdbeereis Posted April 3, 2013 Posted April 3, 2013 I'm going to go ahead and close this. I don't think we're going to get any further in this discussion without going overboard.
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