Eurobricks Mafia II: Mafia School: Day Six

[Zepher]

I barely feel a need to respond to you. I think everyone else can see you're flailing wildly. Not because you're scum, I really do believe you're a mason, you're just a flailing mason.

Oh! sorry, I forgot to laugh ... or catch on ...

Clearly.

Oh, yes I forgot I told you that ... in private ... when youn were prying for info ... to better help us make up our mind as to whom was scum ... because you know, we don't have enough concrete info already, we need someone who is out of the loop to help us

You forgot you told me that? And you're right, trying to figure things out on my own is outrageous. I'll just lie over and die quietly, like townies without actions are supposed to do!

I know that ... I was in their PM chain before I dropped out

Again, I ask, of the whole case, of all the evidence CMP put forward, this is what you retain and see as the 'hinge' of our accusation ...

BECAUSE you PUBLICLY asked all of us if we thought the two scum teams could be connected yet!! You said, verbatim:

What if, the teams have not united ... is that plausible?

So I was answering you! You literally asked if they'd connected, and I said, yes: look what CMP posted yesterday... and then... that's scummy?

I asked you if it would be possible that he was doing that, never have I said it was factual ....

Correct. But CMP did. In that quote I provided.

You are acting weird today Zepher ... are we getting too close to your scum buddies? Why are you trying to steer the discussion away from the topic at hand?

If it came down to it, I'd feel more comfortable with a TBW lynch than a Walter lynch. TBW has made a convoluted role claim. Walter has made a less ridiculous role claim, and has said things. TBW has done little to help and little to defend himself. Besides, you said Hinckley was trying to throw Walter under the bus- not something a Scum HAD to do at that point.

This was the end of my first post before you started to randomly sling accusations. I said I was voting for TBW today. Is that not what we decided on yesterday? Trying to figure out what to do in following days is NOT distracting from the current issue, it IS planning ahead, and IS what we should be doing.

I will respond to you no more. The scum are confusing us enough. I don't need to fight with an insane mason as well.

[Nightshroud99]

My 2 cents; I don't think Boywonder should be lynched today. We should go after Walter, or whoever Dave thinks is another possible scum. If Boywonder is a converter, then he isn't as dangerous as a killer. There are only so many people that can be converted, anyway, and it's day six. A killer, on the other hand, will whittle our numbers down and since our vig is probably dead, we'll be screwed.

Also, only four people total voted for mayor so far...

[Piratedave84]

Mouhahahaha; I am an insane mason!

Nevermind my sanity; I told you in private, your behaviour here does not exactly scream town!

We should kill a recruiter which I think TBW is ... Where is he anyways?

[TheBoyWonder]

Sorry I have been busy. I implore you not to lynch me, as however unlikely my role seems, it is possible. If the scumkill can be passed on, then what's to say there isn't two doctoresque roles to balance it out?

Seeing as our Mason friend here acted as if he didn't know CMP was targeting me, he acted as though he trusted me, and even asked If I targeted CMP last night (for a protection I presume) despite knowing odds are I'd be blocked.

[Nightshroud99]

Sorry I have been busy. I implore you not to lynch me, as however unlikely my role seems, it is possible. If the scumkill can be passed on, then what's to say there isn't two doctoresque roles to balance it out?

Seeing as our Mason friend here acted as if he didn't know CMP was targeting me, he acted as though he trusted me, and even asked If I targeted CMP last night (for a protection I presume) despite knowing odds are I'd be blocked.

Can you explain that second part? I don't quite understand it.

[XimenaPaulina]

My 2 cents; I don't think Boywonder should be lynched today. We should go after Walter, or whoever Dave thinks is another possible scum. If Boywonder is a converter, then he isn't as dangerous as a killer. There are only so many people that can be converted, anyway, and it's day six. A killer, on the other hand, will whittle our numbers down and since our vig is probably dead, we'll be screwed.

I think you got your math wrong there. A couple of people have already pointed this out (Zeph, Rick), and I even emphasized this on my case scenarios I posted earlier: Scum converters are more dangerous than killers at this point since any successful conversion is -1 for the Town and +1 for scum, while killing only takes one of us every night. Like I said, assuming we're tied with scum at 5-5 today, any successful conversion on the scum side is automatic GAME OVER for the Town. Besides, I assume we no longer have any protection against killing (unless Walter's town blocker claim is true), and conversions have more possibility to fail due to the limited number of recruitable townies.

And why does it rub me the wrong way that you seem to be defending TBW? The case against him is as strong as scummy Hinck yesterday, to even think it is a viable option to let him off the hook today sounds like a scum buying time for a fellow scumbo. Not to mention you didn't get the point of splitting the scum's kill target choice between Dave (known mason) and Rick (possible Mayor), and you wanted the known mason as our mayor (so it would be an easy choice for your scum buddies?)

Oh and BTW,

Mayor: Li'l Rick (Rick)

[def]

Li'l Rick is our new mayor. Voting has begun! You have 48 hours to make a decision.

[Piratedave84]

I also asked Nightshroud about his calculation and motive to try and kill a killer in private.

There is some reason behind it; the likelyhood of a successful conversion is low at this point and should a conversion fail then it is really of no harm to us.

The day is young and so We should take advantage of this and explore all avenues. We can all agree that it is imperative that we lynch a scum and for that TBW is a fairly safe bet but what if we could get the killer (possibly only one left) and gamble that a conversion will be unsuccesful? Then we would be in a less precarious position!

I will start the vote with:

vote: Li'l Theboywonder (Theboywonder)

[Nightshroud99]

Isn't it also likely that there is more than one converter? If Boywonder is a converter, there may be another on his team. But since Hinckley did target Pandora when she died, it's likely he was a killer. My reasoning is that if there's another killer left we should kill them.

I don't think the scum can convert masons. Nor can they go after the scum, obviously.

Piratedave, are there a lot of masons left? If so, the chance of Boywonder successfully converting another townie seems less. But a kill will definitely go through. I don't have much faith in our blocker, if we have one still.

[XimenaPaulina]

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder (TheBoyWonder)

Isn't it also likely that there is more than one converter? If Boywonder is a converter, there may be another on his team.

Here's what I think:

Even if the two scum teams have united, one team can't pass their ability to the other team (Killing scum team can only pass the killing action to their original teammates and not to the recruiting scum team. The same can be said for the recruitment action not being transferable to the killing team). So it's safe to assume that even if we lynch TBW today there might still be a converter on their team, same goes for the killer as we don't know how many teammates he originally had.

My reasoning is that if there's another killer left we should kill them.

I understand your point, I even pointed the same argument out earlier before I ran those grim worst case scenarios. The only problem I see is you're favoring lynching Walter (under the assumption that he's a killer) than TBW even if the case against TBW is much stronger than the one against Walter. I think it's still a safe move for the town to lynch TBW today and 'deal' with Walt tomorrow (besides, we may still have ways to verify Walt's allegiance).

Piratedave, are there a lot of masons left?

It would be unwise if we state this publicly. I suggest we leave this critical detail to the masons.

[Zepher]

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder (TheBoyWonder)

Happy launch!

I miss my lunar home. You Earthlings are frustrating sometimes.

[Nightshroud99]

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder (TheBoyWonder)

Here's what I think:

Even if the two scum teams have united, one team can't pass their ability to the other team (Killing scum team can only pass the killing action to their original teammates and not to the recruiting scum team. The same can be said for the recruitment action not being transferable to the killing team). So it's safe to assume that even if we lynch TBW today there might still be a converter on their team, same goes for the killer as we don't know how many teammates he originally had.

There's probably at most two killers, one is dead. I'm metagaming, but I came up with this idea because I was scum in the last EB mafia.

I understand your point, I even pointed the same argument out earlier before I ran those grim worst case scenarios. The only problem I see is you're favoring lynching Walter (under the assumption that he's a killer) than TBW even if the case against TBW is much stronger than the one against Walter. I think it's still a safe move for the town to lynch TBW today and 'deal' with Walt tomorrow (besides, we may still have ways to verify Walt's allegiance).

It would be unwise if we state this publicly. I suggest we leave this critical detail to the masons.

Aye, Dave shouldn't go and tell everyone who the mason's are, if there are any more. But, the more there are the less chance a scum recruitment will be successful.

Honestly, Hinckley voting for Walter and even wanting to lynch him actually reads scum in my opinion. Hinckley is a smart player and doing this could verify him as town, I don't know Walter at all, though, so not sure if he'd have even gone along with that idea. But it's bothered me. Also, didn't Dave say the masons tried to convert Walt? That's another red flag.

How else can we confirm him? What's going to change tomorrow? Except the fact that Dave will probably be dead. If anyone didn't realize this...

It's possible Walter's town, which is a step backward for us. Maybe lynching Boywonder is the best idea, he is almost %100 scum. I want to see what else comes to light, if anything.

But, in the meantime, I'll Vote: Li'l Walter Kovacs (Walter Kovacs)

[Capt. Redblade]

It's possible Walter's town, which is a step backward for us. Maybe lynching Boywonder is the best idea, he is almost %100 scum. I want to see what else comes to light, if anything.

But, in the meantime, I'll Vote: Li'l Walter Kovacs (Walter Kovacs)

*Almost certain TBW's scum, votes Walter*

Nightshroud has repeatedly called out TBW in the past few days with some valid suspicions, and, as Li'l Kiel has pointed out, it is suspect that he should want to split the vote like this. We have a decent case against TBW, as Nightshroud himself plainly admits, much like he admits Walter might be town, and yet he votes for the latter of the two. This flies in the face of everything else Nightshroud says and it really strikes me as odd.

I don't know if Nightshroud is scum or not, and a small part of me wonders if TBW might not be, but nothing about Walter has so far pinged for me.

I don't want to rob the most-likely-scummy TBW of a vote, but at the same time it seems like attention must be paid to Nightshroud, so I'll hold my vote for now.

[Rick]

Vote: Li'l Boy Wonder (TheBoyWonder)

I also asked Nightshroud about his calculation and motive to try and kill a killer in private.

There is some reason behind it; the likelyhood of a successful conversion is low at this point and should a conversion fail then it is really of no harm to us.

I think we all came to the conclusion that the chances of a successul kill are higher than the chances of a successful conversion, especially at this point. We're unlikely to stop either scum team though, because it's very likely that their main actions will be passed on to their remaining teammate(s). So, we'd only have a clear course of action if we could be sure to stop one of the teams by today's lynch.

Isn't it also likely that there is more than one converter? If Boywonder is a converter, there may be another on his team. But since Hinckley did target Pandora when she died, it's likely he was a killer. My reasoning is that if there's another killer left we should kill them.

I don't think the scum can convert masons. Nor can they go after the scum, obviously.

Piratedave, are there a lot of masons left? If so, the chance of Boywonder successfully converting another townie seems less. But a kill will definitely go through. I don't have much faith in our blocker, if we have one still.

I'd fully agree with your analysis if we could be sure to get rid of the final killer by lynching li'l Walter. What makes you think li'l Walter may be the final killer though? How can you know?

There's probably at most two killers, one is dead. I'm metagaming, but I came up with this idea because I was scum in the last EB mafia.

Weren't there two teams of three scum at the start there?

Honestly, Hinckley voting for Walter and even wanting to lynch him actually reads scum in my opinion. Hinckley is a smart player and doing this could verify him as town, I don't know Walter at all, though, so not sure if he'd have even gone along with that idea. But it's bothered me. Also, didn't Dave say the masons tried to convert Walt? That's another red flag.

I don't think you have to convince anyone that li'l Walter could very well be scum. The point is that you seem to be steering the lynch away from li'l Wonderboy.

[Nightshroud99]

Vote: Li'l Boy Wonder (TheBoyWonder)

I think we all came to the conclusion that the chances of a successul kill are higher than the chances of a successful conversion, especially at this point. We're unlikely to stop either scum team though, because it's very likely that their main actions will be passed on to their remaining teammate(s). So, we'd only have a clear course of action if we could be sure to stop one of the teams by today's lynch.

I'd fully agree with your analysis if we could be sure to get rid of the final killer by lynching li'l Walter. What makes you think li'l Walter may be the final killer though? How can you know?

I don't know, but from what Dave has gathered it's likely Boywonder is a(or)the converter. Then, from what he has also learned Walter wasn't convertible. It's likely he's scum, I don't favor the odds of the conversion block. Whether or not he's the killer, I can't be sure. He was close to Hinckley, from what I hear, so they may have been on the same team.

We lynch a possible scum with Walter, or go after a known converter. I prefer the former because there's a chance he's a killer, as I've said. However, I feel the bandwagon is going to form on Boywonder.

Weren't there two teams of three scum at the start there?

Yep, but this game has less players. It's still likely that both teams started with more than one player.

I don't think you have to convince anyone that li'l Walter could very well be scum. The point is that you seem to be steering the lynch away from li'l Wonderboy.

@Redblade as well.

My first post of day 5 I stated my suspicions of Hinckley, Rick, Walter and Boywonder. We managed to lynch Hinckley that day; but I am still suspicious of the rest.

Day 5 the scum were in an amazing position, why the heck would I openly go after them?

[Endgame]

Vote: Li'l TheBoyWonder (TheBoyWonder)

I'd really much rather go for an almost guaranteed scum then a "possibly".

[Peanuts]

Yep, but this game has less players. It's still likely that both teams started with more than one player.

Mr. Def already told us that the game started with 2 Converters and 3 Killers. With one killer and one unknown down, there is a chance that only one killer is left. I don't think we can afford to take any chances right now, and the case against TBW is stronger. Also, I am more afarid of conversions than of killings.

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder

[Piratedave84]

*Almost certain TBW's scum, votes Walter*

Nightshroud has repeatedly called out TBW in the past few days with some valid suspicions, and, as Li'l Kiel has pointed out, it is suspect that he should want to split the vote like this. We have a decent case against TBW, as Nightshroud himself plainly admits, much like he admits Walter might be town, and yet he votes for the latter of the two. This flies in the face of everything else Nightshroud says and it really strikes me as odd.

I don't know if Nightshroud is scum or not, and a small part of me wonders if TBW might not be, but nothing about Walter has so far pinged for me.

I don't want to rob the most-likely-scummy TBW of a vote, but at the same time it seems like attention must be paid to Nightshroud, so I'll hold my vote for now.

Where is your vote? The case against TBW is compelling and 99.9% guarantees a scum lynch; if you want to scrutinize Nightshroud, do it tomorrow ... unless you absolutely don;t wnat to vote for your teammate TBW!!!!

Your retaining your vote for later is suspicious!

Mr. Def already told us that the game started with 2 Converters and 3 Killers. With one killer and one unknown down, there is a chance that only one killer is left. I don't think we can afford to take any chances right now, and the case against TBW is stronger. Also, I am more afarid of conversions than of killings.

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder

I'm pretty sure this was said yesterday; Danny was killed by the killers; he was a converter 100% guaranteed

- - -

I really suck at analyzing patterns and such, but at this point looking for voting patterns (who sided/voted with Hinck and TBW) would/could be useful; anyone up for the task?

[Walter Kovacs]

Mr. Def already told us that the game started with 2 Converters and 3 Killers. With one killer and one unknown down, there is a chance that only one killer is left. I don't think we can afford to take any chances right now, and the case against TBW is stronger. Also, I am more afarid of conversions than of killings.

I don't recall Mr Def ever saying there would be 2 converters and 3 killers. I DO remember him saying he would reduce the scum numbers by 1 due to a lower number of players. Perhaps you know because you are in the know, no?

Vote: Li'l Boy Wonder (TheBoyWonder)

[Peanuts]

I don't recall Mr Def ever saying there would be 2 converters and 3 killers. I DO remember him saying he would reduce the scum numbers by 1 due to a lower number of players. Perhaps you know because you are in the know, no?

Vote: Li'l Boy Wonder (TheBoyWonder)

No. I'm just good at reading things...

I'm pretty sure this was said yesterday; Danny was killed by the killers; he was a converter 100% guaranteed

...or I'm not

[Walter Kovacs]

No. I'm just good at reading things...

I stand, err, sit corrected.

That clears a few things up. So we are looking for two more on the recruiting team, one more killer, and any successful conversions, who can also recruit. It seems finding the remaining killer is top priority, unlike what Nightshroud's been pushing for. Mr Def's post says nothing about the killing action being passed on. Of course, the game wasn't finalized at that point either. Things still might have changed.

[Piratedave84]

I stand, err, sit corrected.

That clears a few things up. So we are looking for two more on the recruiting team, one more killer, and any successful conversions, who can also recruit. It seems finding the remaining killer is top priority, unlike what Nightshroud's been pushing for. Mr Def's post says nothing about the killing action being passed on. Of course, the game wasn't finalized at that point either. Things still might have changed.

We are looking for 2 or more converters and 2 killers, not one. Hinck was a killer and Danny was a converter.

I think Nightshroud and you are actually on the same page ... did I read wrong? Nightshroud is advocating the lynch of a Killer which he suspects is you.

[Walter Kovacs]

Gah, apparently I still cannot read. Yes, two killers, one original scum recruiter, and whomever the scum have managed to convert along the way.

I misremembered Nightshroud's post. We are on the same page, except a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. TBW is almost certainly scum, and I am certain of my innocence, which by default makes me not one of the killers. We can worry about lynching a killing scum tomorrow. Lets just make sure we get A scum today.

Also I'd like to prove my innocence by blocking the killer tonight. Dave, I'm putting my target in your hands, as I put the choice into Pie's hands last night. Converse with the rest of your team, and anyone else you trust, and give me someone to block.

[Capt. Redblade]

The case for TBW is strong, but when he turns up scum, I'll know who to look at tomorrow...

(Ahem, that means you, Li'l Nightshroud.)

Vote: Li'l BoyWonder

[Piratedave84]

So ... We have nothing else to discuss!

Whom should we lynch tomorrow? As anybody else got something to say or are you just waiting for us to feed you the next target???