Future Train sets discussion/speculation

[Nagyzee]

Aesthetically my favourite locomotives are the early electrics. Unfortunately except for the Crocodile design they are not really well known and recognisable by the public. I still hope that one day an old German or Swiss electric will get the exclusive treatment.

[peterab]

I think the Swiss crocodile would make an excellent choice for a Creator Expert set. As you say it's probably the best known example internationally, even if I'd find one of the early German electrics more interesting myself.

[mikka says]

The only thing undermining that would be the crocodile (albeit looking a bit dated) in the hobby train set.....

And just imagine the valve gear on that too....

[1974]

And before that one, TLG did this one :

There's also a pic of a wonderfull brown 12V prototype floating around. That would be nice see come alive, PF brown and all ..

Also, a rather goodsized railway crane would be cool

[Rijkvv]

@Mikka: That would be great! Here somebody showed a great engine, and that was without the compact battery box. It would be possible for sure for LEGO to release a model like that.

And a previously released train wouldn't mean the same model can't be released a second time. The TGV has been released twice so far, but obviously the Hobby Train is a quite recent set. As for the 4551: that's likely based on an Austrian locomotive class 1020, built in Germany as the Baureihe E93 and E94. Can be nice as well, but this type of engine doesn't have driving rods. Of course LEGO can use a blend of different "crocodiles", most of the train sets aren't based on one single prototype.

How about a German E03 train set? It could contain a locomotive and two coaches, possibly one dome car. That could be a reincarnation of set 7740. James Mathis has showed a nice engine, and I've seen a nice one here on Eurobricks as well. Tan and dark red match the colours best. It could be in the price range of the Horizon Express, but this set doesn't have to look strange without a second motor car.

Something else I would love to see is a big modular train station.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Richie

[Nagyzee]

Something else I would love to see is a big modular train station.

Sounds quite unlikely unfortunately. LEGO train stations have been getting smaller and less substantial with time. There are not many things that appear regularly in LEGO form and you could claim that an iteration from the early 90s is still the best (4554). Btw I really love the concept of 4555 Cargo Station as well. Equally unlikely but a similar concept with 1-2 more wagons and a shunter diesel tacked on could also work either as an exclusive or even in the normal City Trains line. (Arguably not as the 'starter' freight train set but as the add-on one, like 3677. While 3677 is quite nice they could have made it more distinct in concept.)

Edited May 4, 2013 by Nagyzee

[JopieK]

There's also a pic of a wonderfull brown 12V prototype floating around. That would be nice see come alive, PF brown and all ..

Also, a rather goodsized railway crane would be cool

Could you give more details on that?! I did not find it while searching very quickly.

[1974]

Here it is :

More in this thread (red one ain't too shabby either) :

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6833&st=0

[zephyr1934]

Some more American icons are the Milwaukee road Hiawatha’s, North Shore Lines Electro liner and the CB&Q early zephyrs.

Bill

Oh yeah, the Electroliner is a beautiful train, but I doubt Lego would ever do it since it is a very niche item (it has been on my todo list for some time, but to get the stripes and the curves on the nose... very tricky). The Pioneer Zephyr would be a great choice except the model is probably TOO similar to the Horizon Express (I'm speaking in terms of the eyes of a non-railfan, both would be a 3-4 long train without a distinct locomotive). And we have to keep in mind that Lego will always make sure the design works for the non-railfans too.

The Hiawatha though, now that could work.

Well the thing is the steam fan will never be satisfied by Lego. For too long they ignored the fundamental design of steam locomotive, the drivers. and only 1 decent steamer will not satisfy us.

On a slightly related note, My next loco will be a 4-4-2 Hiawatha. Wish me luck!

Here's my take from a few years back after the first major rebuilding.

It was my first lego steam engine and It is on deck for further rebuilding. I may go the simple route and swap in the orange train base plates from the HE for the cars and orange arches to continue the stripe around the nose of the loco. I am tempted to be more ambitious though, extend the cars by 10 studs each, use half plate steps on the nose, and most importantly, rework the pilot truck so that it uses larger wheels. The tiny wheels are not reliable enough, one popped off at a show and left me with an ugly smear across the floor. Fortunately no parts were lost and it went back together within 30 min. Might even try to power it through the drivers since there should be enough room to hide PF in the loco.

[BMW]

Lego tends to stick with popular prototypes. I wouldn't be surprised if they reissued the SF F7 Warbonnet.

- BMW

[Spitfire2865]

The Hiawatha though, now that could work.

Here's my take from a few years back after the first major rebuilding.

Yeah I saw that in my searches the other day. Seems that is the only documented Lego class A out there. Though with what Ive started already Ive gone a completely different route from you having the nose mostly studs up and only using snot in the necessary areas. And XL drivers, larger pilot, powered drivers, and more prototypical contouring (hopefully). Might just end with me scrapping it, Im not usually happy with my locos. I feel like Im slowly losing my building skills.

[Hey Joe]

Back on topic: Here is the link about the GS-4 Daylight (for those of you who unfamilier with american trains) http://en.wikipedia....rn_Pacific_4449 & it's cousin the GS-6, (who I want to MOC at some point becuase it lives in my hometown) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SP_4460 Here is a better side view (not mine) of the 4460:

This is why I want the ability to change the orange 4449 Daylight to black to become and almost-replica of 4460.

...and just to be clear here is a GG1.

Yeah, the 4449 Daylight would be awesome. I'll never forget seeing that beauty running in Portland, Oregon. Since we're 'dreaming' here, how about one in American Freedom Train colors as well? My Dad took me down to the Arch in 1976 to see it and I've even got a print of it that I picked up at the station in Washington, Missouri hanging on my wall here in Beijing!

The GG1 would be cool as well. Heck, if they issued that thing I'd string cantenary.

Is that SP 4460 at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis? If so, I'd forgotten. Where's that GG1, The museum in Union, Illinois? I've not been there yet but I really want to go, it's about the only major transportation museum in the US I haven't been to.

Cheers, Joe

Edited May 5, 2013 by bjtpro

[Murdoch17]

@Bjtpro: the SP 4460 is in the non-public part of the museum, but is (barely) visable from the rear most platform of the Roberts Building, (the huge red shed with a clock on top) while the GG1 in that photo is located at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, Strasburg PA. (Just for the record, these photos are not mine but were found on Flickr.)

[Hey Joe]

@Bjtpro: the SP 4460 is in the non-public part of the museum, but is (barely) visable from the rear most platform of the Roberts Building, (the huge red shed with a clock on top) while the GG1 in that photo is located at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania, Strasburg PA. (Just for the record, these photos are not mine but were found on Flickr.)

Cool, thanks. Is that place in Strasburg also called Steamtown? I don't remember that big shed there, maybe it's new?

I really need to get back stateside and look through my old photo albums as I'm thinking the last time I saw that GG1 it was in that ugly, black Amtrak livery.

The main impression that I have of my Steamtown visit (twenty years ago) is that it was frickin' cold, cold, cold!

It would be a little difficult to do those graceful slopes of the GG1 in Lego, wouldn't it? Same goes for the front steps of The Daylight.

Joe

Edited May 6, 2013 by bjtpro

[zephyr1934]

Cool, thanks. Is that place in Strasburg also called Steamtown? I don't remember that big shed there, maybe it's new?

I really need to get back stateside and look through my old photo albums as I'm thinking the last time I saw that GG1 it was in that ugly, black Amtrak livery.

...

It would be a little difficult to do those graceful slopes of the GG1 in Lego, wouldn't it? Same goes for the front steps of The Daylight.

Joe

No, there are two major train attractions in Strasburg- the Strasburg RR and the Pennsylvania state RR museum (plus a caboose motel, a model train museum I think, etc.). Steamtown is in Scranton. Lots of great train stuff in PA (the Colorado of the east in that regard, grin). There are several surviving GG1's in various states of preservation.

Yes, the GG1 and Daylight are both difficult builds, but many AFOLs have done both and some are very good. The good looking versions are all probably much more complicated than any of the three official train sets aimed at AFOLs, so unlikely that Lego would produce either (but it would be fantastic if they did).

Lego tends to stick with popular prototypes. I wouldn't be surprised if they reissued the SF F7 Warbonnet.

- BMW

And Lego does like to revisit the same concepts over and over again. We've already seen the BNSF redone.

[Pief]

What I like to see is a very special steam locomotive the TE-5933. it's not the normal Br52 because afther the war it went to russia and was moddified there not the TE-5933 is the only one who can drive now from it's special group of locomotives. But another Br like a 01, 23 64 are also good. In short it's a 2-10-0 locomotive (german BR52)

It's a really beautiful locomotive so find some pictures on google.file://localhost/Users/jacco/Desktop/STAR.jpg

Edited July 13, 2013 by Pief

[Pief]

I would love to see a Dutch passenger steam engine like the NS 3600 or 3900 - but that will never happen.

I'm form the netherlands but I am not so impress of the steam locomotives and it's hard to see a real one in action but I like the dutch diesel like the NS 2200 as a big diesel and the Sik or locomotor NS 200-369 as a small shunting or cargo locomotive

[xboxtravis7992]

If we are wishing for a Daylight why not also look at the other ORHF engines? SPS 700 is a pretty slick 4-8-4, and while ORN 197 is a 4-6-2, it looks distinct enough it wouldn't be to similar to the EN.

And why not some Union Pacific love? A yellow diesel would look great in Lego; although an early SD or late GP model would look to similar to the Maersk/BNSF engines.

Just a few more trains to add to the wish list...

[PeteM]

Another vote for the A4 Pacific Class, preferably in the LNER colours. I know there's various mocs, but would love to see what Lego themselves do with it...

Edited July 13, 2013 by PeteM

[Simon8MR]

I would personally like to see TLG produce everything seperately, Loco, carriages, trakside buildings etc much like how you buy real model trains. One would assume that this would keep costs down and for those who only like the loco but not the carriages in the set would be benifical.

[peterab]

I would personally like to see TLG produce everything seperately, Loco, carriages, trakside buildings etc much like how you buy real model trains. One would assume that this would keep costs down and for those who only like the loco but not the carriages in the set would be benifical.

Keeping costs down for us means reduced profits for LEGO, for a line that doesn't have the greatest sales anyway. The My Own Train line tried this, and didn't really succeed sales wise. They weren't the best designs perhaps, but the Santa Fe cars were also not a great success despite being an AFOL favourite now.

The complete sets in the city range seem to be a more successful formula, and I can't see more than one train set in the creator expert range unless sales are very high, so the bigger the set the better IMHO.

Edited July 14, 2013 by peterab

[Pief]

TLG should do make models of real trains and they shouldn't put the lego railways stickers on them but the stickers of the railways where the trains are rollin make a model of a BR01 or a big boy and sell it and the city sets should be a circle and a cargo or passanger train

I would personally like to see TLG produce everything seperately, Loco, carriages, trakside buildings etc much like how you buy real model trains. One would assume that this would keep costs down and for those who only like the loco but not the carriages in the set would be benifical.

or buy mutible carriages like a hopper cart and not have a container car and a oil cart and some other carriage with a loco

[Lazarus]

A4 all the way for me i say. I have loved that loco all my life. I even have a photo of my as a boy on the footplate.

[peterab]

TLG should do make models of real trains and they shouldn't put the lego railways stickers on them but the stickers of the railways where the trains are rollin make a model of a BR01 or a big boy and sell it and the city sets should be a circle and a cargo or passanger train

They did this with the BNSF and the Super Chief, but they probably need to pay licensing fees to do so, so if the sets don't sell well (like the BNSF and the Super Chief) they are even less profitable. There is probably a very good reason the Horizon Express looks very much like a TGV but doesn't have the official logos. For those of us that care enough we can customise it, for anybody else it doesn't make any difference.

[zephyr1934]

Another vote for the A4 Pacific Class, preferably in the LNER colours. I know there's various mocs, but would love to see what Lego themselves do with it...

With the EN just two models back, I suspect it will be a while before Lego returns to UK steam.

While the EN was a very fine model, the things lego has to do to keep a steam engine "lego legal" and buildable by the entire target audience will keep an official lego steam engine from ever being the best (well, maybe they'd have a shot at a 4-4-0, but nothing larger). And I really doubt lego would contemplate anything beyond a Pacific class, the six drivers are probably at the limit of lego legal and since they have a mold that produces 4 flanged for every 2 blind drivers, they probably will never go to eight drivers (not that this theoretical Pacific limit applies to an A4 Pacific, but it does to the Northern's and articulated's mentioned in other posts)

Keeping costs down for us means reduced profits for LEGO, for a line that doesn't have the greatest sales anyway. The My Own Train line tried this, and didn't really succeed sales wise. They weren't the best designs perhaps, but the Santa Fe cars were also not a great success despite being an AFOL favourite now.

The complete sets in the city range seem to be a more successful formula, and I can't see more than one train set in the creator expert range unless sales are very high, so the bigger the set the better IMHO.

While I mostly agree with this, I would say the trains are a BIG money maker for Lego and they know it. But the money comes from the fact that one train is the focal point to build a large lego layout. So they are trying to find the sweet spot. One nice lego train every two years, not sold by retailers, will certainly cover its cost but will have a far lower profit than a hero factory set. The real profit from the train set will come from increased sales of other things to decorate the train layout.

I too would prefer that lego sells individual pieces of rolling stock, but that is not likely to come back any time soon. I understand lego's position, just one nice train set every two years is enough for 95% of the rail fan customers. As part of the remaining 5%, I'm just glad that they are producing the sets with the parts I need to build the MOCs that I want to build.

They did this with the BNSF and the Super Chief, but they probably need to pay licensing fees to do so, so if the sets don't sell well (like the BNSF and the Super Chief) they are even less profitable. There is probably a very good reason the Horizon Express looks very much like a TGV but doesn't have the official logos. For those of us that care enough we can customise it, for anybody else it doesn't make any difference.

Sigh, if it weren't for the Super Chief I wouldn't be here (literally, I'd probably be off in a forum about something other than lego). Still my all time favorite lego set. But I live in the US and I have even seen a restored Santa Fe warbonnet. While I like Santa Fe, there are several railroads that I like more (peruse my BS gallery and you'll quickly deduce what they are). So right there, it is hard to produce just one model every two years that will satisfy everyone in the US. The warbonnet is probably as close as they could come, but the bigger problem is, what about the folks in Germany, or Australia? The thing about trains is that most folks want to model the trains that they know best. So if I were in Europe, I probably would have shrugged at the Super Chief. Sure, the EN was British, the Maersk was US, and the HE French, but without the actual railroad stickers, they are ambiguous enough that it is easier to bend them in to new situations. It doesn't hurt the bottom line to save on licensing but I suspect that component is small, I think a bigger part of the logic is simply the benefit of the ambiguity.

Still though, I'd love it if lego could support dozens of different train car designs in their catalog. I suspect lego is working in that direction with cuusso to eventually be able to reach the niche markets with devoted customers who are smaller in numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if within 0 years cuusso emerges into a large line of small run sets. They could use the S@H PAB line to do it, toss in dedicated instructions and a sticker sheet. Sell fan designed sets with some TLG modifications and do so at PAB prices. I think that day is coming.