Harriet Slutter and the Philosopher's Balls: Chapter 4

[Barkonius Twitch]

vote tally

Helena Hippopaw: 9 votes (Gertrude Tincanchew, Nicholas Dickory, Dillpickle Catterweed, Rutherford Hablabble-Bibble, Firuz Foxtail, Ariattny Sugarbottom, Lulu Pittoolo, Timly Dimplebop, Barkonius Twitch)

Barkonius Twitch: 8 votes (Helena Hippopaw, Twatty Tittlesteen, Looney Lumpylove, Belinda Bugglesby, Orion Kettleboil, Barkonius Twitch, Drublum Panck, Bartholomew Bearbutt)

I believe you have confused Langston and me in those vote counts. I happened to not vote for myself, because I know I'm Penis.

There is sadly nothing new to learn, Looney. Helena has been telling the truth. I did all the things she thinks I did. The logical little leap we're all missing is what way it makes me scum. That's the only thing the evidence isn't conclusive about. So you're all making a judgement call, and tomorrow you'll see your wrong, and get Panek. That's just how things are going to go down.

[Hinckley]

Mod note: The host is never wrong. You saw nothing.

[Looney Lumpylove]

Never fear, Barkonius. I've been doing a little thinking on my own, and I've had a few thoughts I'd like to share.

Why are we so sure that both Barkonius and Drubulum can't be a Penis? Is it because they have similar roles? There have been situations similar to this that my Beloved Alien Overlords have told me about where the town side had more than one protective role.

After all, we KNOW that there are three possible night kills out there (scum, Vig & SK), why wouldn't the town have more than one way to stop them?

Add to it this little nugget. Neither Barkonius nor Drubulum was trying to kill Ariattny on Night 2. The scum were busy killing Boris that night. So what scummy thing do we think they were doing, exactly? The only thing that springs immediately to mind is a Roleblock, or perhaps a Frame? I haven't heard anyone complain about being blocked as of yet.

This puts a lot of doubt in my mind. Doubt that leads me to believe that we are heading towards yet another mis-lynch.

Unvote: Barkonius Twitch

Vote: Gertrude Tincanchew

Gertrude has been pinging scum for some time now, and has been very fervent about taking out Helena today. I believe this is because she wants the town PRs outed so that the scum can pick them off, one by one.

I don't expect anyone to blindly follow me. Think about all that has been said today and in the past, and form your own opinions. I feel much better about where my vote is.

[Helena Hippopaw]

It's pretty much between Bark and me, so choosing a third animal is just wasting your vote.

[Dillpickle Catterweed]

The watcher saw them target me. But they've both claimed very similar roles. But Drum has been very townie to me in PM, to the watcher in PM. Bark has never contacted me, and has been aloof to the watcher, despite having very good reason to think they are town (up to now, there has never been a scum watcher, so it's unlikely now).

It doth strike me that if Barkonius never contacted thee, and that Drubulum did, that Drubulum was seeking to gain influence while Barkonius was being cautious. It can be read in the alternative just as easily.

I unfortunately have nothing else to say. I've been honest, hopefully

I protected Krup Night One.

I protected Sugarbottom Night Two. That was the night that both Panek and I were seen, and we both claimed doctor.

I protected Helena last night.

Ah, it doth appear that Helena hath lied again. She claimed that both "protectors" were seen targetting her last night, when in fact, they were seen targetting Ariattny. Drubulum, has not revealed what his action from last night was. Certainly, scum wouldst not protect Helena if they thought she was town, and it is clear from the death of Pink that this was their belief.

Right. So you keep saying. But it is you who is doing the hurting. Out of spite. By the way, why didn't you ever try to kill a scum? I mean, the Town wasn't winning, so I seem like an odd target for a kill. Also, what is your plan if you stay alive tonight? Will you have an action, or what? I don't believe just wanting to make it as far as possible is your only two reasons.

I do believe Helena hath already sided with the scum. The scum do not need to kill Helena to win. The rules are specific that they merely need to outnumber town and any third parties, not kill off the third parties. Third parties have their own win condition, and while we don't know exactly, it doth seem likely that it is possible for Helena to win simply by surviving until the Odor Eaters win. I expect they already have connected and are part of this plot.

You are currently voting with the scum. Scum have zero reason to save me. If you vote with the scum, you deserve to lose. That's a massive hint right there. You're helping the scum. Good luck

Not at all. Shouldst thou have already sided with scum, then the scum have every reason to save thee as it doth seem too many townies believe thou art still trustworthy, and thy presence reduces the town's ability to mount a united front agin them.

But do not forget, she has every reason to hunt the scum as well. SKs cannot win with the town, but they also cannot win with the scum either. She needs both sides dead, which is one of the reasons I'm willing to go along with her for now.

As stated above, this we do not know, and it doth seem entirely possible that she can win with scum. Helena doth strike me as far more dangerous to have alive over night tonight than either Panck or Twitch. Let the scum take care of the one that is town, and we can lynch the other in the morrow. If all they can do is protect, they cannot technically hurt town at night.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Helena Hippopaw: 9 votes (Gertrude Tincanchew, Nicholas Dickory, Dillpickle Catterweed, Rutherford Hablabble-Bibble, Firuz Foxtail, Ariattny Sugarbottom, Lulu Pittoolo, Timly Dimplebop, Barkonius Twitch)

Barkonius Twitch: 7 votes (Helena Hippopaw, Twatty Tittlesteen, Belinda Bugglesby, Orion Kettleboil, Langstong Lionheart, Drublum Panck, Bartholomew Bearbutt)

Ariattny Sugarbottom: 2 votes (penalty, penalty)

Gertrude Tincanchew: 1 vote (Looney Lumpylove)

~12 hours remain in Day Four.

[Helena Hippopaw]

It doth strike me that if Barkonius never contacted thee, and that Drubulum did, that Drubulum was seeking to gain influence while Barkonius was being cautious. It can be read in the alternative just as easily.

Well, the watcher and I both thought Drub seemed town, and, while I have nothing but the thread to go on, the watcher felt Bark was worth lynching.

Your 'scum don't need to kill me' theory is absolute BS. From the rules:

Win Condition: You win when you kill off all of the Odor Eaters and any other 3rd Party or You win when you outnumber the Order of the Penis and any other 3rd Party.

From the point of view of scum, I am as needed to die as much as any member of town.

Of course, the vote is very close and the scum want me lynched, so your two cents has been noted Scummy. Don't you scumbums plan this out on your writeboard first, before making up lies to tell in thread? It seems like terrible strategy.

[Ariattny Sugarbottom]

More half-logic. Surely, for their win condition, killing you or one of us is equal to them. But you're working against us. So which of the three options will the scum take? Surely they'd rather kill a townie than you.

[Helena Hippopaw]

Sorry, now you're just making excuses for screwing over the town. You are worse than useless, you are poison to town. Surely

[Looney Lumpylove]

After conversing with several of you in private, the picture looks much clearer to me. Gertrude, I still think you are scum, but now I am convinced Barkonius is your scumbuddy.

Unvote: Gertrude Tincanchew

Vote: Barkonius Twitch

[Lulu Pittoolo]

Hissssssssssss

Wow, what a strange situation. I was convinced that lynching Helena was our best path of action, but seeing as we have two protector claims, and that Helena was blocked, it's fairly safe to assume that one of them is scum. I agree that Panck has been the one who was less scummy, and he seems to confirm that Helena isn't lying to us again. Which means, either today or tomorrow we will be able to lynch scum. That's a very reassuring thing to learn.

That said, I'll just

Unvote: Helena and

Vote: Barkonius Twitch

If I'm counting right, Barkonius is leading now. I hope our vig does the right thing and kills Helena tonight. She's still third party, and she has to die. But scum are more important.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Helena Hippopaw: 9 votes (Gertrude Tincanchew, Nicholas Dickory, Dillpickle Catterweed, Rutherford Hablabble-Bibble, Firuz Foxtail, Ariattny Sugarbottom, Lulu Pittoolo, Timly Dimplebop, Barkonius Twitch)

Barkonius Twitch: 8 votes (Helena Hippopaw, Twatty Tittlesteen, Belinda Bugglesby, Orion Kettleboil, Langstong Lionheart, Drublum Panck, Bartholomew Bearbutt, Looney Lumpylove)

Ariattny Sugarbottom: 2 votes (penalty, penalty)

[Dillpickle Catterweed]

Woe be to us for the fools who doom town.

I've heard a lot of you saying that Helena is a dangerous Neutral. And that might be true, we have no proof that she can kill without Pinkie around, but we also have no proof that she can't.

It really doesn't matter if she can kill. What matters is that we MUST kill her.

After conversing with several of you in private, the picture looks much clearer to me. Gertrude, I still think you are scum, but now I am convinced Barkonius is your scumbuddy.

If there is irrefutable evidence that Barkonius is scum, why have we not heard it?

Wow, what a strange situation. I was convinced that lynching Helena was our best path of action, but seeing as we have two protector claims, and that Helena was blocked, it's fairly safe to assume that one of them is scum. I agree that Panck has been the one who was less scummy, and he seems to confirm that Helena isn't lying to us again. Which means, either today or tomorrow we will be able to lynch scum. That's a very reassuring thing to learn.

All who are voting for Barkonius because he seems scummier than Panck are voting for uncertainty, based on the opinion of a proven liar and self interested neutral. Anyone who votes with Helena at this point is giving in to her strategy, not executing the strategy that is best for scum hunting. Town must be rational and take the known threat out while the possible threat can still be properly evaluated. Only when we are without certainty does it make sense to take out the unknown threat. We cannot allow Helena to live tonight. What if we lynch Barkonius and he proves town? Then we know that we have to lynch Drubulum, but we STILL have to lynch Helena later. That extends the game another day. We KNOW that Helena is neutral and part of our win condition is to take her out. We therefore MUST lynch her today. We cannot waste today. We are already behind.

If I'm counting right, Barkonius is leading now. I hope our vig does the right thing and kills Helena tonight. She's still third party, and she has to die. But scum are more important.

Not really, no they are not. They are equally important, and the role claim of both Panck and Twitch is protector yes? We don't know for certain which of them is town and which is not. Those voting for Barkonius have given no evidence other than he seems more scummy than Panck, and that's not enough to go on when we KNOW that Helena is against us. She CANNOT be for us if we MUST kill her to win.

We don't know for certain that Barkonius advances us towards potential victory. We can't guarantee the success of the vig. We can only guarantee the lynch. We must advance towards a town victory.

[Lulu Pittoolo]

Not really, no they are not. They are equally important, and the role claim of both Panck and Twitch is protector yes? We don't know for certain which of them is town and which is not. Those voting for Barkonius have given no evidence other than he seems more scummy than Panck, and that's not enough to go on when we KNOW that Helena is against us. She CANNOT be for us if we MUST kill her to win.

We don't know for certain that Barkonius advances us towards potential victory. We can't guarantee the success of the vig. We can only guarantee the lynch. We must advance towards a town victory.

Okay, that's the situation:

Helena is neutral, and either Panck or Barkonius is scum. In theory, it doesn't matter if Helena is lynched and Barkonius vig-killed or vice versa, because the effect is the same: Both are dead.

But the scum are more likely to have a protector amongst them, and if Barkonius is the blocker, he definitely will be able to block tonight. And the scum know our protector. Helena definitely won't have a scum doc protecting her.

Bawk, bawk!

[Timly Dimplebop]

Woe be to us for the fools who doom town.

It really doesn't matter if she can kill. What matters is that we MUST kill her.

If there is irrefutable evidence that Barkonius is scum, why have we not heard it?

All who are voting for Barkonius because he seems scummier than Panck are voting for uncertainty, based on the opinion of a proven liar and self interested neutral. Anyone who votes with Helena at this point is giving in to her strategy, not executing the strategy that is best for scum hunting. Town must be rational and take the known threat out while the possible threat can still be properly evaluated. Only when we are without certainty does it make sense to take out the unknown threat. We cannot allow Helena to live tonight. What if we lynch Barkonius and he proves town? Then we know that we have to lynch Drubulum, but we STILL have to lynch Helena later. That extends the game another day. We KNOW that Helena is neutral and part of our win condition is to take her out. We therefore MUST lynch her today. We cannot waste today. We are already behind.

Not really, no they are not. They are equally important, and the role claim of both Panck and Twitch is protector yes? We don't know for certain which of them is town and which is not. Those voting for Barkonius have given no evidence other than he seems more scummy than Panck, and that's not enough to go on when we KNOW that Helena is against us. She CANNOT be for us if we MUST kill her to win.

We don't know for certain that Barkonius advances us towards potential victory. We can't guarantee the success of the vig. We can only guarantee the lynch. We must advance towards a town victory.

This!

For those of us not part of Helena's supposed "town block" and without a PR, all we have is the lynch! We have ONE person who we KNOW needs to be lynched. That's Helena. We can not win with a 3rd party still around.

My vote stands.

[Dillpickle Catterweed]

Okay, that's the situation:

Helena is neutral, and either Panck or Barkonius is scum. In theory, it doesn't matter if Helena is lynched and Barkonius vig-killed or vice versa, because the effect is the same: Both are dead.

But the scum are more likely to have a protector amongst them, and if Barkonius is the blocker, he definitely will be able to block tonight. And the scum know our protector. Helena definitely won't have a scum doc protecting her.

Thou art correct with a slight modification: It doth not matter if Helena is lynched and Scum vig-killed or vice versa. It matters a great deal if we mislynch.

Yes, the scum know the protector, as it is either Twitch or Panck. The problem is, we do not know if it is Twitch or Panck. It is most likely that the other is the scum blocker, rather than a scum protector, for a scum protector would not have protected Helena last night. Remember, they killed Pink because they believed Helena and Pink to both be town. They were just as surprised this morning that Pink was neutral as we were.

I have reason to think that Twitch is more likely to be town than Panck based on the PM's I've had with both but I do NOT want us to lynch Panck, either. The reason I am opposed to the lynch of Twich today is because we can deal with Twitch and Panck tomorrow, in the light of additional information. Only ONE of them is likely to be scum. If we mislynch on either Twich or Panck today, then we have to deal with BOTH Helena and the remaining of Twitch or Panck in future days, whether that be via Vig or not. The scum DO have reason to block the vig or protect Helena, as her very presence is divisive and distracting to town from here on out.

I targeted Sugarbottom Night 2 after targeting Gertrude Night 1. I can't talk a lot now, unfortunately, but I think it seems reasonable to me to lynch a suspected scum today, rather than Helena.

If thou wast the town protector, thou wouldst KNOW that Barkonius is scum rather than merely suspected scum. Ergo, thou art scum. Let's lynch Helena and vig kill Panck.

[Lulu Pittoolo]

Unvote: Helena and

Vote: Barkonius Twitch

Well, that didn't count, so:

Unvote: Helena Hippopaw

Vote: Barkonius Twitch

Oo-oo! Oo-oo-oo!

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Helena Hippopaw: 8 votes (Gertrude Tincanchew, Nicholas Dickory, Dillpickle Catterweed, Rutherford Hablabble-Bibble, Firuz Foxtail, Ariattny Sugarbottom, Timly Dimplebop, Barkonius Twitch)

Barkonius Twitch: 9 votes (Helena Hippopaw, Twatty Tittlesteen, Belinda Bugglesby, Orion Kettleboil, Langstong Lionheart, Drublum Panck, Bartholomew Bearbutt, Looney Lumpylove, Lulu Pittoolo)

Ariattny Sugarbottom: 2 votes (penalty, penalty)

[Firuz Foxtail]

I've been holding off on changing my vote because I wasn't confident on the vote for Barkonius, but I now I believe the best way to help town is to:

Unvote: Helena Hippopaw

Vote: Barkonius Twitch

I was willing to call Helena's bluff earlier on today, but we can deal with her overnight. We can't afford to have the PRs outed to the scum.

[Barkonius Twitch]

I agree that Panck has been the one who was less scummy, and he seems to confirm that Helena isn't lying to us again.

This is why the Penises aren't doing so hot. Are you attempting to read the thread? When has he confirmed anything?! I actually confirmed Helena's claims. He has stopped in once since his name has been brought up, and offered a very quick "can't talk now, sorry".

Good luck tomorrow! Listen to the people who actually pay attention. Panek is clearly scum.

And, and before I'm gone, I'd like to remind everyone that scum did NOT want to lynch Helena. Here's why: Helena was going to reveal the three roles that she knew. The scum already know about the two townie roles due to some big mouthed bunny. So the only thing they thought would be coming to light was the fact that Panek had made the same claim as me. Watch those who voted for Helena late, and were quick to unvote here. Seriously, best of luck to those of you who are actually trying.

[Ariattny Sugarbottom]

I think it's more likely Panck is scum at this point... In private, he has been mostly agreeing with me on things I said. The main thing making me think otherwise was his long breakdown on how Wong had been lying, shortly before he was lynched. I figured a scum wouldn't do something like that or at least have no reason to. But pointing that stuff and putting that amount of work into something which is not going to change anything, is actually a prime way to make yourself seem useful Keep in mind the only reason Barkonius is on the table and not Panck is because Panck claimed, to Helena... It's likely she will tell any more roles to the scum anyway, if she hasn't already, she doesn't really have a reason not to...

I hope two people switch their votes to Helena, I think it's the better of the three options. I really think she's not down and out, I doubt she put this much effort into this if that was the case. Seems it's working for her, though.

[Drubulum Panck]

Why are we so sure that both Barkonius and Drubulum can't be a Penis? Is it because they have similar roles? There have been situations similar to this that my Beloved Alien Overlords have told me about where the town side had more than one protective role.

Add to it this little nugget. Neither Barkonius nor Drubulum was trying to kill Ariattny on Night 2. The scum were busy killing Boris that night. So what scummy thing do we think they were doing, exactly? The only thing that springs immediately to mind is a Roleblock, or perhaps a Frame? I haven't heard anyone complain about being blocked as of yet.

Just for the sake of those who haven't understood yet, and since I just realized now that it hasn't been mentioned, I'm a Bodyguard. I realize that I failed to mention who I targeted on Night 3, which was because I thought it was obvious, but I targeted Helena. Now Helena was blocked so that must make either me or Barkonius the scum blocker.

It doth strike me that if Barkonius never contacted thee, and that Drubulum did, that Drubulum was seeking to gain influence while Barkonius was being cautious. It can be read in the alternative just as easily.

Ah, it doth appear that Helena hath lied again. She claimed that both "protectors" were seen targetting her last night, when in fact, they were seen targetting Ariattny. Drubulum, has not revealed what his action from last night was. Certainly, scum wouldst not protect Helena if they thought she was town, and it is clear from the death of Pink that this was their belief.

Actually, Helena contacted me. I didn't contact Helena. You also have your facts a bit mixed up. Both of us targeted Helena last night and both of us targeted Ariattny on Night 2. Obviously scum wouldn't protect Helena, that's because Barkonius is not a protector but a blocker.

Thou art correct with a slight modification: It doth not matter if Helena is lynched and Scum vig-killed or vice versa. It matters a great deal if we mislynch.

Yes, the scum know the protector, as it is either Twitch or Panck. The problem is, we do not know if it is Twitch or Panck. It is most likely that the other is the scum blocker, rather than a scum protector, for a scum protector would not have protected Helena last night. Remember, they killed Pink because they believed Helena and Pink to both be town. They were just as surprised this morning that Pink was neutral as we were.

I have reason to think that Twitch is more likely to be town than Panck based on the PM's I've had with both but I do NOT want us to lynch Panck, either. The reason I am opposed to the lynch of Twich today is because we can deal with Twitch and Panck tomorrow, in the light of additional information. Only ONE of them is likely to be scum. If we mislynch on either Twich or Panck today, then we have to deal with BOTH Helena and the remaining of Twitch or Panck in future days, whether that be via Vig or not. The scum DO have reason to block the vig or protect Helena, as her very presence is divisive and distracting to town from here on out.

If thou wast the town protector, thou wouldst KNOW that Barkonius is scum rather than merely suspected scum. Ergo, thou art scum. Let's lynch Helena and vig kill Panck.

That, as I see it goes against the basic rules of mafia. When there are conflicting claims you have to test the claim and see which one is scum. At this point we haven't caught a single scum so I think we need to worry about that first and foremost. I think we have to be willing to take the risk so that we will be certain of catching our first scum.

I think it's more likely Panck is scum at this point... In private, he has been mostly agreeing with me on things I said. The main thing making me think otherwise was his long breakdown on how Wong had been lying, shortly before he was lynched. I figured a scum wouldn't do something like that or at least have no reason to. But pointing that stuff and putting that amount of work into something which is not going to change anything, is actually a prime way to make yourself seem useful Keep in mind the only reason Barkonius is on the table and not Panck is because Panck claimed, to Helena... It's likely she will tell any more roles to the scum anyway, if she hasn't already, she doesn't really have a reason not to...

I hope two people switch their votes to Helena, I think it's the better of the three options. I really think she's not down and out, I doubt she put this much effort into this if that was the case. Seems it's working for her, though.

I haven't spoken to you in private in a week. I didn't claim to Helena. I claimed to the Watcher. I targeted Helena because the Watcher asked me to.

[Lulu Pittoolo]

Hee haw! Hee haw!

This is why the Penises aren't doing so hot. Are you attempting to read the thread? When has he confirmed anything?! I actually confirmed Helena's claims. He has stopped in once since his name has been brought up, and offered a very quick "can't talk now, sorry".

I actually meant you be that "he". As in, "Drub seems less scummy, and Barkonius has confirmed".

Hee haw!

[Helena Hippopaw]

Keep in mind the only reason Barkonius is on the table and not Panck is because Panck claimed, to Helena...

No, it was the watcher's decision. Learn to read.

It's likely she will tell any more roles to the scum anyway, if she hasn't already, she doesn't really have a reason not to...

Stop making stuff up because you're bitter that I'm not being lynched right now. I have zero reason to betray town if town doesn't betray me. Use your head Sorry, you keep it up your megablocks. Voting because you are bitter is a horrible strategy. Really sad. The whole point of me being Helena was that you wouldn't make decisions based on your voluminousness collection of grudges.

Scum are pushing for my lynch. If Bark was town, scum would be very happy to jump onto that lynch, and then have the rest of town crying for the watcher's name tomorrow. Bark is scum, which is why the votes are 9-8 right now.

Town is voting for Bark, and the "scum or dumb" set are voting for me. It's a clear road map for scum.

A wise critter once said, critters generally see what they look for and hear what they listen for...

[Ariattny Sugarbottom]

Helena, don't put me on your level, please. I am playing the game, your personal hostility towards me is very jarring for me. I am not voting because I am bitter, or anything. Unlike you, I have not made any personal attacks, so you figured out who I am, great, whatever. I haven't tried to insult you or anything like that. You find me annoying, that's fine, but that's your deal. Not mine. The reason I am writing this is because it's just tiring. Please stop. No one likes what you're doing, I'm sure. Only you.