Mafia Mafia: Day One - Day One

[Hinckley]

Where did the Werewolf say that? Judging by this, I'd say they don't change:

I'll look. I thought it was in the signups.

You mean Snakey's defence, or KDM's, or both? Are you going to look at it?

I mean the rolecop. I am looking at it. It's more of a defense than The Snake Charmer's. Would you like me to look at it more than that? I mean people should look at it as in take note of it. The whole basis of it being a stronger defense than The Snake Charmer's means it would be a stronger suspicion, so therefore we should all look at it or take note of it. But, if it helps...

*sits and looks at the Rolecop's post.*

[fhomess]

There is another thing which caused me a raised eyebrow: RoleCopDaMan was informed by another player about the one-unvote rule. A little early for backstage whisperings? Why didn't this mysterious other mention it publicly themselves?

While Serial Killer's original comment does not seem too bad to me, I too find it odd that he hasn't been back to defend himself. That and Snakey's comment leads me to believe we may be on to something. It's the best lead I've seen so far, and that's why I'm doing something about it.

I had overlooked that RoleCopDaMan had said that he heard it from another player. That would incline me to think that the player who he heard it from was trying to curry favor with a townie without helping the whole town. An appearance of being helpful but being helpful in as limited a way as possible. It was clear from the early votes that many of us (and I include myself in this group) had overlooked the single unvote rule. Given that we've now heard that this was the Serial Killer who was already suspicious for the earlier attempt at logic, I'm feeling strongly enough that he's worth a vote.

Vote: Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs)

As for the earlier comment about pussy-footing about with the votes, the behavior has been a bit reluctant to cast votes today which isn't entirely consistent with past behavior in games like Jedi Temple. However, the method there was the finger of suspicion formatted like a regular vote but using "FoS" instead of "Vote". If we can all agree to commit to a unified format, we can take advantage of the process. Personally, I think the single unvote rule is annoying because it encourages us to do these shenanigans to avoid wasting early votes, and that's an anti-town rule, IMO. Votes are generally a bit more powerful than FoS's in terms of getting people to respond. Maybe this is one of the rules that will change in future days.

[Esurient]

My vote priorities for Day 1:

The Doctor (Piratedave84) - I have noticed you coming into the thread a couple of times without saying anything. I find that suspicious because this is what someone would do when one is 'flying under the radar' to prevent others from noticing. At the time of me writing this post, I have noticed that you checked into this thread and went off again.

The Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs) - Hasn't appeared to address accusations.

Between The Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs) and The Doctor (Piratedave84), I find The Doctor (Piratedave84)'s activity more suspicious. For that I will:

Vote: The Doctor (Piratedave84)

[Adam]

And yep, snake is pinging too, for the reasons stated by Cult Leader. Especially the WAY it was said - give him time, etc. He defended the PERSON rather than arguing against the lynch. It came across to me as personal rather than trying to stop a foolish lynch.

I know some thought Cult Leader's previous post premature or overreacting, but I agreed. I think his more recent post right above this is a good response as well. So right now I'm praying he doesn't turn out scummy later since that'll mean I'm screwed, but I think he's got the best logic around right now. SK, Snake are both seeming scummy to me. For now though I'll leave my vote on SK. I'll be away much of the day, but I should be back before the end of the day to use my one unvote if justified.

Isn't it a tad ironic that you're putting up a "Day One defense" for the Cult Leader (Rufus), considering that the little bandwagon behind the Snake Charmer (Darth Potato) started because he supposedly put up a defense for the Serial Killer (walter kovacs)? Is this what you folks call a "ping"?

Don't they change every day? I thought The Werewolf said the pills changed and were randomly assigned a modifier every day.

I asked the Host, and he told me that the pills do not change, but the Cult Leader (Rufus) is right in that you cannot pick the same pill two days in a row.

I really want to know what happens if he's lynched. He's a player, and it's not forbidden in the rules. He's daring us to lynch the werewolf day one. For some reason, it seems entirely appropriate.

I was wondering if there wasn't some sort of twist to the game, because it's unusual for us to know everything about the game and its set-up from the get-go. Right now, as I'm starting to grow ever more suspicious of the Cult Leader (Rufus) and now the Talking Animal (mostlytechnic), I think that votes would be better placed elsewhere than the Werewolf (Zepher). In fact, where does it even say that the Host is a player? Counting the Host and the other players in Mafialand, there are 24 people here.

THE DESIGN

23 Players

16 Town - 6 Scum - 1 SK

... And it very clearly says 23 players. So unless one of us secretly isn't playing, then the Werewolf technically isn't a player, even if voting for him isn't against the rules.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Cult Leader (Rufus): it irks me that he was so quick to denounce the Snake Charmer while other "defenses", like those of the Talking Animal (mostlytechnic) and the Role Cop (KielDaMan), don't get the same backlash.

[TrumpetKing]

Well, there's a rule that supposedly changes every day thread or so, Mr. Tree Stump.

[LegoDad]

"Voting is now open. It is an hour early, but I have to go to work."

"Where's that interlude?" snarls a passerby.

"Didn't you hear him say that he had to go to work? I'm sure it's coming later!" says someone else gleefully.

"Where does a werewolf work?" asks someone else.

"Everyone be quiet. The interlude will come when it comes. Damn other hosts, spoiling you with comics. There used to be no such thing as an interlude. Remember, the person with the most votes in ~48 hours will be lynched. If there is no lynch, I'll eat one of you at random."

It seems we haven't gotten too far with any voting so far, and I just wanted to point out that it seems if there is no majority, one of us is dead anyway. Might as well be someone that is at least ASSUMED scum as opposed to a random, which as of now, is better odds to be a townie than not, and with the amount of roles out there, even a decent chance of a power role to get killed. I have no problem changing my vote if need be, as there are a few that seem to have come up suspicious so far today.

[DarthPotato]

Cult Leader, you think both I and the SK are scum, then? If I was scum I wouldn't just defend another scum buddy out of the blue like that. You haven't really given too much opinion on the SK though, and I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on that. You also seem to be going in with tunnel vision and aren't considering other option at all. It is day 1 and I'd like to hear your thoughts on other things (and yes, I know you gave some suspicion to the Role Cop too but other than that you've mostly just been going on about how he's suspicious and I should be lynched).

[Kadabra]

As a note, FoS: Character Name (Player Name) seemed to work better in Jedi Temple than this italic blue stuff is doing (I keep thinking people are potholing things ), if we want to keep doing something like the fake votes.

On the main topic, I'm most inclined towards Cultist just for how wishy washy he is, as I said before, so my vote will stay on him unless we need to make a unified decision on someone later on so as to prevent a random kill. The Cult Leader reads more like an over-aggressive Townie who jumped the gun on a vote than a Scum, as I don't believe Scum would come out and proclaim something was 'the best lead of the day' and place the first really solid vote if he knew the player would flip town, and bussing probably wouldn't happen at this point. (That's a thought - any players seeming 'buddy-buddy' at the moment?)

[Rufus]

Isn't it a tad ironic that you're putting up a "Day One defense" for the Cult Leader (Rufus), considering that the little bandwagon behind the Snake Charmer (Darth Potato) started because he supposedly put up a defense for the Serial Killer (walter kovacs)? Is this what you folks call a "ping"?

Right now it's a 'bandwagon' of one, so don't sweat over it.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Cult Leader (Rufus): it irks me that he was so quick to denounce the Snake Charmer while other "defenses", like those of the Talking Animal (mostlytechnic) and the Role Cop (KielDaMan), don't get the same backlash.

It 'irks' you? Read what I said: it is the manner of the defence, not the defence itself - like he was expecting his team-mate to return. Role Cop defended SK based on their interactions, and I've commented on that. Talking Animal seems to be agreeing with me, rather than defending me; I don't especially like the way he said it, which frankly reads a little scummy, but I can't draw any conclusions from that since I know I'm town.

Cult Leader, you think both I and the SK are scum, then? If I was scum I wouldn't just defend another scum buddy out of the blue like that. You haven't really given too much opinion on the SK though, and I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on that. You also seem to be going in with tunnel vision and aren't considering other option at all. It is day 1 and I'd like to hear your thoughts on other things (and yes, I know you gave some suspicion to the Role Cop too but other than that you've mostly just been going on about how he's suspicious and I should be lynched).

Interesting choice of words; I know someone who thinks like that. Well done on making me more suspicious of you.

To reiterate, your post that I called out looked like an attempt to stall because you knew (or thought) your team-mate would be back later to defend himself. It does rely to an extent on you both being team-mates. I honestly don't know what you would or wouldn't do if you were scum; you could easily have made that post not thinking anyone would pick up on it.

What makes me think I might be onto something here is that several people have gone to some lengths to discredit me for making this accusation. There's still only one vote on you; why all the fuss? That alone doesn't make you scum - I imagine the scum would be keen to discredit me anyway - however, if you aren't scum, they'd be better off following the lynch and putting the blame on me later.

I have plenty of suspicions, but I actually don't think it would be helpful at this late stage today to add yet more names to the already close bandwagon. At the moment, SK is closest to a lynch, and if we have to test this theory by lynching him rather than you then so be it. I would also support a lynch on the Doctor or the PGO for absence or middle-of-the-road behaviour respectively, but I'm still highly suspicious of you.

[TrumpetKing]

I'm honestly not opposed to a Serial Killer lynch, but I would much rather see a lynch towards Cultist. I already called him out for something, and he gave a truly predictable response. At least Snake Charmer has tried to defend himself. Cult Leader, do you agree about Cultist? If you're going to bring out Snake Charmer, you should be bringing out Cultist for doing the same thing. Yet, he could just be a "dumb" (A more appropriate word escapes me) townie, because I don't know if a scum would d that just after somebody got called out for it.

[Hinckley]

vote: The Cop (def)

I understand turning over a new leaf and I respect it. But your usual analysis and leadership is missing. What we have instead is the seemingly helpful compiling if who took what pill which anyone can do. Putting together information regarding the game's mechanics that we all have access to seems more like an attempt to appear active and helpful while leaving out any player behavior analysis. Difference in style I appreciate but I'm more worried about the change in your tactics.

[Rufus]

I'm honestly not opposed to a Serial Killer lynch, but I would much rather see a lynch towards Cultist. I already called him out for something, and he gave a truly predictable response. At least Snake Charmer has tried to defend himself. Cult Leader, do you agree about Cultist? If you're going to bring out Snake Charmer, you should be bringing out Cultist for doing the same thing. Yet, he could just be a "dumb" (A more appropriate word escapes me) townie, because I don't know if a scum would d that just after somebody got called out for it.

I don't think they did the same thing. This is what Cultist said:

I too, think that the Snake Charmer is somewhat fishy in his "defence". Although the Usurper has been rather.. roleplaying today and not contributing in general. Something I'm at fault with too, I think his activity isn't as fishy as Snake Charmer's today. I'd like to say that the NPC's just as fishy today but I'm leaning towards Snake Charmer for now but I won't vote for him just yet.

This is pussy-footing at its worst, but it isn't a defence. It's a weak indicator of scumminess; townies do it too. I have no opinion about Cultist either way, but I'd like him to contribute more. Or were you referring to something else?

[TrumpetKing]

That is what I was referring to. It seemed similar to Snake Charmer's, IMO, but you do have a good point about it being pussyfooting.

[Kadabra]

vote: The Cop (def)

I understand turning over a new leaf and I respect it. But your usual analysis and leadership is missing. What we have instead is the seemingly helpful compiling if who took what pill which anyone can do. Putting together information regarding the game's mechanics that we all have access to seems more like an attempt to appear active and helpful while leaving out any player behavior analysis. Difference in style I appreciate but I'm more worried about the change in your tactics.

Considering I've only played one other game with def and he wasn't Town in it, I'm in no position to meta game him so I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable lynching him. How off is his game, exactly? Is it enough to warrant a lynch without corroborating evidence? I'd really appreciate it if someone would explain the train of thought here before I weigh in on the matter - is def just being less aggressive, or is his play style completely different and less helpful? If it's the latter, I'd be willing to vote him if you think there's something off going on here.

[TrumpetKing]

Despite the points that the Cult Leader brought up, I'm still sort of seeing Cultist as acting weird, possibly protecting a scummy buddy. Not only that, but he didn't bother to defend himself. At least Snake Charmer did provide a defense. I personally think we should be seeing a Cultist lynch today. This is my final vote, and one that I am pretty confident in, or at least more than a Serial Killer lynch.

Vote: The Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam)

[Hinckley]

Considering I've only played one other game with def and he wasn't Town in it, I'm in no position to meta game him so I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable lynching him. How off is his game, exactly? Is it enough to warrant a lynch without corroborating evidence? I'd really appreciate it if someone would explain the train of thought here before I weigh in on the matter - is def just being less aggressive, or is his play style completely different and less helpful? If it's the latter, I'd be willing to vote him if you think there's something off going on here.

Aggressive or not, he is usually making accusations or helping to sort out what people are talking about. All he's doing with the list is appearing to be helfpul with info we all have access to. Did I just repeat myself? I feel like I did.

[Tamamono]

As soon as I said something about the Snake Charmer and why he was fishy. The Usurper pretty much started gunning for me and starts to ask whether the Snake Charmer or I was a better lynch target. Aggressively saying I'm one of the scummiest right now. when you're trying to get the fire on me.

I was gonna vote for Snake Charmer but now I'll Vote: The Usurper (TrumpetKing)

You're voting Usurper for saying you're scum??

I don't particularly townread Usurper (and I think he should be checked out sometime soon-ish), but aggressiveness is generally a towntell.

First, I thought the interaction between yourself and The Serious Roleplayer (Tamamono) was interesting. Mostly because he took such a long winded way to say what he had to say. I just thought it odd because he could have said it far more succinctly.

I totally could have, that's true. I said it so long-windedly because I was pretty much "thinking out loud", if you will. I got my reads and opinions as I was reading the posts and typing up my own.

I'm honestly not opposed to a Serial Killer lynch, but I would much rather see a lynch towards Cultist. I already called him out for something, and he gave a truly predictable response. At least Snake Charmer has tried to defend himself. Cult Leader, do you agree about Cultist? If you're going to bring out Snake Charmer, you should be bringing out Cultist for doing the same thing. Yet, he could just be a "dumb" (A more appropriate word escapes me) townie, because I don't know if a scum would d that just after somebody got called out for it.

After rereading, I honestly don't want a Serial Killer lynch - at least not today. Snake Charmer, too, has been getting more and more sincere in his responses as time's gone on. The lynch I'm most comfortable with at this point is Cultist, honestly.

I'm going to

Vote: Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam)

Out of everyone currently being voted for (and not being voted for, even), Cultist is the most forced. Usurper has been more and more town as time's gone on, as has Snake Charmer (as I mentioned before).

PGO/Virgin/First Day Lynch aren't exactly screaming town either, but they're playing similarly to how they played in past lives, which makes me want to give them the benefit of the doubt (PGO in particular). I like the Cop lynch, but I've seen him take a fairly passive route as town on at least one occasion as well, so I'm a little wary of voting for him for now.

[Kristel]

Maybe we should try to use our votes instead of the fake ones, especially since people can't seem to format the fake votes right or tally them in a helpful way. No offense to jamesn. The initiative is much appreciated.

Totally agree with this. I've found the fake voting more confusing than helpful.

Why is rambling suspicious?

I explained why I thought this was interesting, as per the bold bit below.

First, I thought the interaction between yourself and The Serious Roleplayer (Tamamono) was interesting. Mostly because he took such a long winded way to say what he had to say. I just thought it odd because he could have said it far more succinctly.

Why fill up a page when it could have been said in a few sentences? This might be a personal preference of mine, but its nevertheless the reason why this interaction caught my eye.

What does the timing have to do with it? In that amount of time only two votes had been placed, although there was some fake votes for him. Maybe he is a Scum, getting nervous that his buddy was being accused and wasn't around to defend himself and a bandwagon could be forming. Yes, I definitely see that as a possibility. I just don't think it's concrete. Granted, if it were more concrete that would be really sloppy on their part.

I think the timing tells a lot. At the time of the defence, The Serial Killer had already more than a day to respond. If the defence had come earlier, then I think it could be interpreted as someone asking us to be rational.

Considering I've only played one other game with def and he wasn't Town in it, I'm in no position to meta game him so I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable lynching him. How off is his game, exactly? Is it enough to warrant a lynch without corroborating evidence? I'd really appreciate it if someone would explain the train of thought here before I weigh in on the matter - is def just being less aggressive, or is his play style completely different and less helpful? If it's the latter, I'd be willing to vote him if you think there's something off going on here.

I've only played one game with him before as well, but the difference between this one and the last is extreme. The Male Lover (Hinckley) also made a good point about The Cop (def) not really contributing much. The Cop has stated the obvious by pointing out we should be keeping track of the pills. He's provided no suspicions and voted for the host. He appears to be trying to be helpful, but he's not really contributing at all.

I don't think I'll get a chance to post again before the end of the day, so I will:

Vote: The Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs)

He's not the only one on my list of suspects, but he's at the top at the moment for not coming back to address the accusations and for his PM to KielDaMan. He could have easily pointed out in the thread about the one unvote rule.

[Piratedave84]

Hi! Sorry I was absent! RL was a bitch this weekend!!

I have no idea whom to vote for today; I find the 'accusations'/allegations made against the SK to be weak-ish although I tend to agree with the assertions made by the cult leader; maybe something for later days but IMO it's not a good day 1 lynch.

As for the individuals who posted analysis; there is/was very little to go on to post such analysis. I have a hard time not perceiving this as scummy, why post an 'analysis' that analyses the first 50 posts of the day? Unless it's way to appear helpful!

@NPC: Since I also saw you come in and leave without posting, I should vote for you correct!?

A for my vote, I feel my best bet is to metagame my vote. The person that struck me as behaving differently than usual is the Cop(Def).

vote : The Cop (Def)

[Clanure]

The PM to KielDaMan adds to the suspicions against the SK in my eyes. Add the fact that they haven't bothered to defend themselves and I'm left to:

Vote: The Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs)

I'm not really comfortable with it, but it's the best I've got so far. I may not be around for the rest of the day, so I need to get my vote in.

[jimmynick]

The PM to KielDaMan adds to the suspicions against the SK in my eyes. Add the fact that they haven't bothered to defend themselves and I'm left to:

Vote: The Serial Killer (Walter Kovacs)

I'm not really comfortable with it, but it's the best I've got so far. I may not be around for the rest of the day, so I need to get my vote in.

You're not comfortable about voting for someone, yet you broke the tie of 3 vs. 3 on The Cultist vs. SK? As far as I can tell, the rules do not force us to make a decision every day. If you feel uncomfortable making that decision, leave it to the rest of us. That, and the fact you're being quiet for the most part today, means a ping. You're not worth a vote today because that would just split everything further.

I cannot unvote once I vote today, but I'm trying to decide for myself between The Cop and The Cultist.

[LegoDad]

Since I don't want a no-lynch today, and nobody else seems to be worrying about the Stump, I will:

Unvote: The Tree Stump (Adam)

Vote: The Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam)

[TrumpetKing]

It appears the votes are split. I'll be fine with a lynch for Serial Killer (If you can't contribute, why be here?), but I feel more comfortable lynching Cultist. Neither are bothering to defend themselves.

[def]

I understand turning over a new leaf and I respect it. But your usual analysis and leadership is missing. What we have instead is the seemingly helpful compiling if who took what pill which anyone can do. Putting together information regarding the game's mechanics that we all have access to seems more like an attempt to appear active and helpful while leaving out any player behavior analysis. Difference in style I appreciate but I'm more worried about the change in your tactics.

I have nothing to analyse on day one. Too early to make anything of anything.

As for compiling the pills, less than half of us have any experience with this as a game concept. Those of us with experience know to compile info. But the rest don't, so it is important that we help them out. It is certainly more concretely helpful than quoting lots of people and saying "maybe" afterward. Usually, it's not until people start dying that we can read into what they're saying.

When I have more to say about pinging and scum tells, I will.

It appears the votes are split. I'll be fine with a lynch for Serial Killer (If you can't contribute, why be here?), but I feel more comfortable lynching Cultist. Neither are bothering to defend themselves.

I think the votes will be cut off at the time of the first post, which was just under two hours ago. I think that's what the werewolf said.

Meaning, all votes after Kristel's would be void.

[Waterbrick Down]

Thing is, the Werewolf is not an NPC, and is therefore open for votes. An easy day one vote is there for us... The Werewolf...

INteresting point; if such is the case (that we can vote for the werewolfe), I would throw my vote in be it just to spare us the usual day 1 mislynch!

A for my vote, I feel my best bet is to metagame my vote. The person that struck me as behaving differently than usual is the Cop(Def).

vote : The Cop (Def)

A little inconsistent here aren't we? First you feel fine following the Cop and now when some individuals start bringing up his change of behavior you feel comfortable hiding in someone's else suspicions and placing a metagame vote?

Hi! Sorry I was absent! RL was a bitch this weekend!!

I have no idea whom to vote for today; I find the 'accusations'/allegations made against the SK to be weak-ish although I tend to agree with the assertions made by the cult leader; maybe something for later days but IMO it's not a good day 1 lynch.

As for the individuals who posted analysis; there is/was very little to go on to post such analysis. I have a hard time not perceiving this as scummy, why post an 'analysis' that analyses the first 50 posts of the day? Unless it's way to appear helpful!

@NPC: Since I also saw you come in and leave without posting, I should vote for you correct!?

A for my vote, I feel my best bet is to metagame my vote. The person that struck me as behaving differently than usual is the Cop(Def).

vote : The Cop (Def)

Also, you're criticizing those who are at least attempting to analyze the given posts? You may think it's scummy to be helpful but I'm of the opinion that the more people that talk, theorize, and debate the more things eventually become clearer. A lot can happen in 50 posts if you pay attention and your assertion that people shouldn't say anything analytical based on 50 Day 1's posts seems like a futile scummy attempt to mask your own lack of contributions.