3D Printing

[MakutaNocturn]

Nowadays, we have a printer and a scanner in one device. What do you think about 3D scanners and printers as one device also? :D Scan a Lego Brick, for example Hordika's arm, improve it and print Or scan and make custom masks! Awesome xd

[Strand]

I can't even imagine the effect 3D printing will have in the next few years. Obviously it's a boon for manufacturing but things like that new gun alarm me, as I don't live in 'gun culture.' For more mundane things like Lego? I've thought about this more than once in relation to thinss like Games Workshop Warhammer figurines, will it completely gut this business? Maybe. If you're charging $40 for a tray of inch-tall figures, which someone can theoretically make at home, doesn't seem like a sound, long-term business plan.

I believe Lego proper will stay ahead of the curve in manufacturing in much the same way the printing industry still exists despite every second home owning an inkjet or laser printer. The quality is just not there, and there's no economic incentive to sell printers that do anything but print basic documents. There will always be a place for a Kinko's or place to print niche products like wedding invitations.

[SNIPE]

Top idea, I've been wanting to make lego parts buts its expensive however the idea is still there where as if there was a need for something which didn't have any brick that would work you can just make your own and there you go.

I was going to make bricks and technic bricks etc the same dimensions as technic stud less beams for complete compatibility and tiles/plates the same dimensions as half thick technic beams but as well as that i was going to make more technic connectors

[lego2lego]

I don't see the need to print "custom" lego bricks. Isn't the fun of lego trying to create things with all the "limitations" of lego. If you can print custom parts to build, let's say a lego car, why don't print the real thing? The beauty of MOC's lie in the fact that people come up with new techniques or use parts in new ways to create things thought impossible with lego. If you can just print a stained glass window instead of somehow putting transparent bricks together all the fun and creativity goes out that same window.

Just my thoughts.

Edited May 28, 2013 by lego2lego

[MonkeyCrumb]

Remember Dot Matrix printers?

That's where we're at with 3D printers right now. I expect the finished output to *look* nicer as the years go on. But there will always be physical limitations as to how much stress these printed pieces will be able to tolerate. Even if/when you can print a brick that has the same tolerances as Lego, the composition of the material will likely not give you the same clutch power as an injection-molded Lego. Furthermore, what happens when this brick is at the bottom of a larger build? It will likely crack, sooner rather than later.

3D printed Lego will be less of a thorn in Lego's side than MegaBlocks, Kre-o, or any other competitor. And it's likely that 3D printed bricks will be *lower* quality than even Megablocks due to the differences in layer-built vs injection molded pieces.

The real magic of 3D printing in regards to Lego will be with Minifigures. Helmets, accessories & backpacks, etc, don't need to be subjected to the same kinds of stresses as a brick at the bottom of a build. Mass-adoption of 3D printing will be more of a threat to Brickarms than it will be to Lego. But for Lego fans, the sky will be the limit on Minifigure customization! There are so many Star Wars aliens that Lego is never likely to make, and we will be able to flesh out our Cantinas & Jabba's Palaces with every alien design possible. It won't be as effective to do an entire figure from scratch, but it should work well enough to add weapons, helmets, hairpieces, or heads with torso coverings similar to how Chewbacca or Ewoks are made, or other nonstandard alien heads similar to Alien Conquest.

And what happens when people start expanding their armies & custom figures? They're more likely to add more bricks for walls, scenes, etc, which will in turn wind up as more sales for Lego. They'll buy tables for their Cantina Aliens, more walls for Jabba's Palace, and so on.

[Leewan]

Well, considering their prices, it will take between 5 and 10 years before anyone can afford a 3D-printer. So we have some time before any problem of "self-made-Lego" (if there is any problem) appear. The quality is constantly improving, but I don't think it could ever reach the moulding quality. And printers will have to be extremely fast to be able to produce as much parts as moulding machines do. So I don't think Lego has to worry about this technology. And I think they could even use it at their own profit, even if I don't know yet how.

I also think that technology could be good for us, fans (well, not every fans), since it allows us to make our own parts ; designs that Lego wouldn't do. For example, I am considering using the 3D-printing to make custom Hero Factory parts, design that could be useful, but unfortunately don't exist. Also, look at this article, written by Conchas. In his case, 3D-printing was useful to get a Lego part he couldn't have otherwise (he can't even paint an actual part ). Of course, such a situation shouldn't become a habit, it would be too easy for MOCcers if they do not longer use Lego parts (or, I should say, parts made by TLC).

So I'm for 3D-printing, as long as it does not become preponderant in the Lego community. It should become a tool for improving Lego's range of parts, and not to replace them.

[Flipz]

For me, I'd still want LEGO just for LEGO, but it would help remove the "parts ceiling" that I've experienced in trying to build MOCs as part of the AFOL community.

You see, most of the MOCs I see here and on Flickr are MASSIVE, and require HUGE supplies of many different parts, supplies that I don't yet have the funding to amass. Thus, I find myself resigned to minifig design, small diorama builds that don't really merit their own topic, and virtual LDD builds. With 3D printing, however, I could print out backdrops and support structures compatible with LEGO, and then use my own collection to add a façade and details--sort of like how I used the Aqua Raiders baseplates and DUPLO bricks as a kid to help me build larger buildings when I knew I wouldn't have enough regular brick.

Likewise, if I had the parts to build a section of wall but not the full length, I could scan what I built, and then duplicate it in cheap "throwaway" plastic to extend the length so I could get the photo I want, and then throw away the excess when I'm done.

[pbat]

That would be awesome if LDD integrate with 3d printers. But it could hurt Lego's economy.

I wouldn't bet that TLG will integrate that feature somewhen soon. If you have a closer look at the current LDD 4.3.6 EULA, it says:

I. GRANT OF LICENSE:
[...]
You may NOT:
[...]
(ix) use the Software for any purpose related to the manufacture of plastic building bricks.
[...]

Even if you use some other software than LDD and scan the brick geometry with a 3D scanner, you have to keep in mind that almost every original brick contains the protected wordmark "LEGO". So "replicating" original bricks is most likely a violation of TLGs trademarks. And I guess TLG is quite strict regarding infringing its trademarks. Especially since "homemade" bricks surely won't meet TLGs quality standards.

But as long as custom bricks are easily distinguishable from original bricks by not showing the "LEGO" wordmark and as long as these custom bricks are used for private purposes only and not commercially sold, I guess 3D printing shouln't bother TLG too much, although they will be far from supporting or promoting it.

I guess, however, that TLG should update its Fair Play Guidelines regarding 3D printing and clarify if using things like the free universal construction kit is OK or not.

[ultron32]

I wouldn't use one. Not much atleast. I don't even use Brickarms/Brickforge, though I do like normal printing, like Eclipsegrafx/Christo.

[Hrw-Amen]

It is certainly very interesting but at the moment I do not think the quality or price is there yet. That is not to say that in ten, twenty years or so it will not be as everyday as a normal 2d printer is now, but it is not at that point yet.

Like many others part of the fun of LEGO is making what we can with what is available and just churning out your own bricks will spoil the special'ness of it in a way, at least for me.

It is the same with music and books, films etc. I am all for electronic copies, but I still like to have a physical hard copy that I own and purchased. It is a real tangible thing that you bought. For example if I buy a CD now, I have that CD, I have paid for a real thing. That does not mean I do not want an electronic copy to put on my PC server or other mobile devices to carry around, but I still like to have that hard back up. I note nowadays that many movies also include codes with the DVDs that allow access to a cloud based copy you can stream or download if you prefer as well as having a real thing in your hand.

I could perhaps see in the future that TLG may include special codes in certain sets or games that enable people to go online and print say a special tool for a mini-figure or even a special mini-figure itself, but i cannot see it happening for whole sets, it would just be too expensive over what they could produce it in bulk themselves.

How about a good idea! Buy all of series 'X' Custom Mini-figures and get part of a code in each one that when you have the complete set you can go online and print off a special mini-figure; a bit like Mr Gold but more available to the masses!

I do see this technology though being used in model making in general. As well as LEGO, i build model tanks, figures, planes etc. Already people are making custom parts for these and some companies are using the technology to produce prototypes that way to see how it comes together or looks. But mostly it seems they are at least for now, then using these prototypes to make a mold to mass produce the bit rather than actually printing each bit. It is just too expensive and too slow at the moment.

Still time will tell, we will have to wait and see?

[BlueberryWaffles]

People are already thinking about using this sort of thing to make their own action figures. There's ENDLESS possibilities with a 3D printer.

[shmails]

This is not a new thing in the LEGO custom accessory world. I have been making 3D pieces for at least three years now. I use Shapeway.com to print the designs, and the pieces are usually no more expensive than specialty pieces sold on Bricklink. Here are a few examples:

As others have said, the quality is below injection molded abs plastic parts, but for those who can look past that it is a wonderful tool to create things in our favorite hobby that cannot be found anywhere else. At some point in the future, the quality will go up and the cost per unit will go down. Until then it is a specialty tool, but the only limitations are technical skill in modeling and your imagination. I have created everything from headgear to weapons to wands for Harry Potter to a minifig scale zippo lighter. There is a bit of trial and error in the sizing, but once you zero it in it is very easy to make something new.

Edited May 29, 2013 by shmails

[AoNZ]

Though people can print anything they want there is still a demand for a sufficient skill level to actually model the pieces.

I think people will end up selling designs of various Lego pieces, which in their point of view is ideal printing whenever there is demand.

[LiamM32]

I am pleased in some ways, and worried in others about the development of 3D printers.

I don't think that 3D printers would put Lego out of business in the near future, but I still have a slight concern of that happening later. The Lego Group has high quality standards that would probably not be met with consumer grade 3D printers. This could also be said about illegally downloaded music, with poor sound quality. But there is a difference here with Lego; If the shape is slightly off, than it wouldn't fit together well. I would like to use a 3D printer to make custom parts for my Lego creations that don't yet exist. I know of a place where I could go to that plans to get a 3D printer that I could use, so I hope to use it for custom parts. Of course, the purists probably won't accept these parts when posted in Lego creations online. For legal downloads and personal designs, 3D printers could be a great help. If Lego went out of business because of 3D printers, the Lego system might become open source; which would be good for some fans, but may wreck it for others.

There are also some real concerns over 3D printers. I have read about an open source group trying to develop gun designs for people to download and print at home. You mentioned this quite casually, but this is a concern over the safety of people, because anyone can get a gun without a background check (Although as far as I know, this could already be a problem in the US). I am against illegal downloads for digital content (such as movies and music), but 3D printers could expand these to physical objects. Atleast they are only stealing the design of them though, as they would still have to pay for the materials. This would be good though for generic objects, which may be normally overpriced.

I also have some questions about 3D printers; What type of files do they use? Are these files made with 3D modeling programs (As they are currently, these programs only have the faces of an object, but don't show the spaces that are filled with material)? 3D printers are machines that can make various shapes, But would a specialized molding machine be cheaper in a factory than a 3D printer programed to repeat building the same mold?

[relhak]

You may NOT:

[...]

(ix) use the Software for any purpose related to the manufacture of plastic building bricks.

I believe this is in the license to prevent Megablocks and Kreo from using LDD to develop their own sets. Or so they can sue the daylights out of them if they do.

[Waterbrick Down]

I also have some questions about 3D printers; What type of files do they use? Are these files made with 3D modeling programs (As they are currently, these programs only have the faces of an object, but don't show the spaces that are filled with material)? 3D printers are machines that can make various shapes, But would a specialized molding machine be cheaper in a factory than a 3D printer programed to repeat building the same mold?

3D printers require a 3D CAD file (most of what I've done and the only one I'm aware of is an .stl format), even laser scanned objects require a conversion step from a surface to an actual volumetric solid before they can be printed. This is where one of the kicker is, because while 3D printers may become affordable one day, it will still require 3D modelling experience to actually produce your own designs.

As far as manufacturing is concerned, injection molding is far superior to 3D printing currently in terms of both speed and overall aesthetic quality, while the investment in the capitol equipment is far beyond the reach of a normal consumer, for most manufacturers it is the ideal process for making a massive quantity of a given item.

[timmyc1983]

I, like many others have said as well, would still buy LEGO even if these 3D printers became affordable. I am also someone who will buy a CD over going to iTunes and downloading the music. So, although I don't consider myself a LEGO purist, I would not use a 3D printer to produce my own bricks because I would want my MOCs/sets to be genuine LEGO pieces, and not something of lower quality without the 'LEGO' logo on the stud. And I believe there to be many people who would feel the same way, so I don't think LEGO need worry about this technology for the next 10 years, and even after that, their own technology will have improved to make their product even better than it is now, so i think they should feel pretty safe...

[James_T_Menendez]

The quality of the original lego bricks anyone has no doubt about durability an reuse.

But a special piece necesary for a specific MOC design is factible to print but not susceptible to reuse in another asembly, the 3D printing is the option.

Very useful in MOCs of real models, and rare pieces hard to find.

The entusiasts who come back to this marvellous world and no have a bunch of old pieces and models appreciate this possibility.

Especially in trains its very useful, for lack of material specific of the other lines products, film frachises by example. If you thinks about LEGO provide new train products sit down and despere.

Edited May 29, 2013 by James_T_Menendez

[JopieK]

@waterbrick down: there are drivers for printing it using sketchup, so it is getting easier, my pupils can already do it ;)

[Matthias]

Even the best printers that are avaiable today have not the quality you need. The weapon for example is a suicideweapon. In tests the weapon explode in the hand. In no try the weapon can fire more than 1 shot.

shot ----> waste. That is the reason why I think Lego will never be produced at home. The quality of the "ink" isn´t high enough. It would be like Lego from the 50´s today.

[Quincy]

The ability to printout LEGO quality bricks has been around for quite some time now but no company has ever fretted about it for one BIG reason: the 3D Printing 'material' is still typically very expensive. Especially the material used to create the most polished looking printouts. ...Imagine paying up to $25 per brick instead of our beloved $.10-.15 cents.

If you want to see a sample of a really high quality print versus a somewhat consumer-grade FDM printer (The most common type), please check out my Kickstarter: HERE ...The project is for a tolerance kit I'm creating and features blocks that are similar in size to lego. ...So you can get an idea of the resolution you can achieve with 3D printing.

Pretty amazing stuff, even if it is expensive.

[Or2Me2]

Using 3D printers to end world hunger...or organ replacements that save lives?...I agree, most definitely!

So, for the LEGO part, I think the utility of these things would mainly be for small parts/minifig accessories, as mentioned already. I don't think you're gonna spend money on a 3D printer just to build yourself a standard brick. It would be easier and cheaper (and therefore more logical) to buy clone brands.

Also, as was said earlier, I think it would be hard to come up with the same shades of color as they do with all of the bricks that LEGO produces. However, whether the formula for the colors can be kept a secret (the way Coke keeps its secret formula) is another matter. Will TLG try to circumvent this by producing specific colors for particular sets and never using that same hue again? That would be quite a headache, especially for future MOCers. Can you imagine yourself building a ship that has different shades of grey?

Finally, I wouldn't know if every Tom, Dick, and Harry will have the talent, or needless to say the ability, to come up with the right designs for such things, unless it comes with a program or someone else has done it before you did. So I think, in the end, it will only profit a small number of people. Which makes me wish I was a big time capitalist with a lot of money to invest...

[JopieK]

Nevermind (report because of phone error), 3D printing will be mostly supplemental. The invention of a normal printer did not make books obsolete did it (the iPad might after a while, but not the printer)

[DraikNova]

-snip-

This sums it up perfectly.

[vean]

Lego is looking for a 3D printing specialist.