Mafia Mafia: Day Two - Lynch Lunch Hour!

[mostlytechnic]

Remember when people were suspicious of def for playing differently from a well established style he had, and then he died and was Town? Male Lover is playing his second game and hasn't had a chance to develop a style yet, and people are meta-bandwagoning him. "His posts weren't consistent" I can get behind. "He was different in Mafia School" I can't. Maybe I'm just a bleeding heart, but I played far worse in Jedi Temple (my first real mafia game) than in A Bedtime Story, and I was Town in both games. Then in Harriet Slutter, O was way more aggressive and arguably a better player (but a worse person! )You can't expect a second time player to keep a cool and powerful leadership presence (LegoDad's role in Aperture, that people expect him to retain) when you're playing with big names like Hinckley for the first time. Heck, this is my fourth game and I feel intimidated just by the presence of some of the people here. In my opinion: Male Lover may be a good lynch, but we're lynching him for the wrong reasons. I support this lynch because of inconsistent posts and lack of contribution besides a lynch the lurkers policy. I think the people who support the lynch JUST

because he's playing differently need to think more about behavior than past games.

I'm not expecting the same exact play from him as high school. HOWEVER, in school Claire came under MASSIVE attack constantly (often from me) due to an apparent lie that lead to a lynch (turned out not to be, but we didn't know that at the time). There was huge distrust of him in that game and yet he defended him self well and consistently. Here, the pressure has seemed lower on him and yet he's inconsistent and illogical. THAT's what I'm voting on, not that he's not being a great leader like he turned into back in school. Perhaps the difference is because in school he knew he was right and that he was town, so he could base his defense on that, where here, he doesn't have that foundation?

[Esurient]

Vote: First Day Lynch (Jamesn)

[Piratedave84]

I really do not like that The Paranoid Gun Owner keeps slinking back into the woodwork...well the gray baseplate work...

I brought that point forward several hours ago; some interest was shown, one person comitted to vote should I proceed. I will keep this 'suspect' for tomorrow's lynch as I see the validity in voting for FDY and ML today.

Oh yeah, if Male Lover comes up town, I'm in trouble. At least I'm only vanilla!

I know you addressed this already but I'll still add my 2 cents; Pre-emptive much? This makes me think you have somethin to hide ... just sayin'! Thank god for you that your other posts have substance and generaly are very well thought out because this one post raises eyebrows!

Vote: First Day Lynch (Jamesn)

Based on your previous case I assume? Why FDL over Snake Charmer?

You really could not be bothered to write one sentence? Really?

This is the post you made after the whole Witch saga died down,

1-3: Nothing much about The Witch, just a suggestion that people shouldn't trust the vig so easily.

4: This is when you really talked about The Witch. So from sentences 1-3 I get the sense that you don't trust the vig, yet now you are not blaming the vig?

5: If you don't trust the vig, yet you are speaking up for the vig???

6-8: Midway stance on the pill.

9-10: Defended BONAD

11: Defended Male Lover

12-13: Made a suggestion that if The Cultist is scum, that would clear you. My question is, if The Cultist is Town, would that clear you?

14: Made a suggestion that in any case if the lynch on The Cultist does not clear you, everyone should take a look at The Ursurper.

15: Votes for The Cultist.

Bravo. Well thought out plan just in case something happens to you, you have another scapegoat to go with.

The lynch on The Male Lover and The Cultist would set us up for tomorrow to determine if we should let The Snake Charmer off the hook.

We should also monitor BONAD's behaviour since The Snake Charmer defended BONAD. The way The Snake Charmer puts it across, it could be a big WIFOM.

1. You find Jester and Snake Charmer suspicious, yet you are not pursuing them? You intend to leave it till tomorrow? Why not start now since you want to find another lynch candidate? Suggestion: You can start with those 2 and try to pick them apart.

2-4: You said BONAD has faulty reasoning? Yet you are asking for another lynch candidate and not pursuing BONAD for answers? Suggestion: BONAD might be your third lynch choice.

5: So?

6: Defended BONAD. You said BONAD has faulty reasoning and you said there was no case for him?

7: Yes

8: Male Lover had faulty reasoning too. Yet you are not defending him. Interesting.

9: Cheers

10: Thinking up more reasons to protect The Witch?

11: You have 3 potential lynch candidates to pursue (that you have mentioned) and you have chose to ignore them.

Instead you decided to metagame and pick on the person that saw through your scummy actions and behaviour in high school and the way I am seeing it is that you are intending to remove a potential threat from this game that could potentially ruin your grand plot. Well PGO is pretty quiet I have to say, same goes to BONAD, Virgin, Jester and Stump.

Between The Snake Charmer and The First Day Lynch, I find the First Day Lynch more suspicious. Because he is asking for lynch candidate when he blatantly chooses to ignore the people he named.

I will vote for the First Day Lynch but I will follow up with my vote when I get a chance to access real technology.

Oh! I see now, please accept my apologies!

Triple post:

LegoDad just stepped in and left without addressing the votes; if he has given up, he may very well be town .... FUUUUUUUUUUU we must lynch scum today; it's kind of imperative!

You know what, I am not so confident in my vote anymore so I will follow through on my previous comments and go ahead and:

Unvote: Male Lover (LegoDad)

Vote: PGO (Purpearljellyblob)

For several reasons, the main one being that this person has yet to address the questions I addressed and their accusations from earlier demonstrate that they have not bothered to

thoroughly read the thread.

[Piratedave84]

Fourth post:

I am officially alone on this baseplate!

To further my case against PGO, here is the extent of his controbutions today:

1) FDL calls him out on his vote and asks for clarification; this happens:

1. First Day Lynch & The Talking Animal - The reason I voted for The SK is because I am not convinced how his inactivity is going to help the Town in any way.

2. First Day Lynch created a lot of confusion when he got the fake votes tally mixed up. If you can tell The Virgin that if he is not comfortable with something he should not do it, then I suppose that if you want to take the initiative to tally the fake votes, you should be comfortable with that and not create confusion to the Town by doing so.

3. First Day Lynch voted for The SK and then subsequently switched his vote for The Cultist. The way First Day Lynch approached The SK issue reminded me of the paradigm that 'If The SK turns out Town, he would say I Told You All So'.

This reads to me as "Don't look at me, look at what he's done!"

All of her concerns are then addressed by the FDL, the PGO then disapears

2) This post to request a pill

I will go for lucky number 16! Deep Space Pill

Nothing to say here ....

3) FL calls him out as an individual we should scrutinize:

In my opinion, these should be our focus for the Day:

The Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam) - for obvious reasons.

The Snake Charmer (DarthPotato) - a very smart and usually active player and yet, now that the smoke has cleared from The Cult Leader's accusation, he hasn't been contributing to all that has been happening.

The Paranoid Gun Owner (Purpearljellyblob) - Call this one a gut feeling. There's something I just don't like about him. He's flying under the radar, but seems to be paying enough attention to get pills, etc.

The Male Lover (LEGODad) - Are the inconsistencies just mistakes and sloppy reading? He seems to be trying to be helpful to The Town and I agree with a good number of his points but we've noticed some things we don't like about what he's saying as well, specifically the odd feeling that The Cop was killed for being suspicious when we know the vigilante was unsuccessful.

And he comes up from his hiding place to say this:

Personally, I don't believe in the whole fake vote concept, it's way too easy for the scum to test out their targets and to see if their targets generate support from the Town. I believe the only way to make the scum nervous is to post a real vote. Not as a poke or test but as a decisive vote. No offense Female Lover, I appreciate what you are trying to do here, but scum could easily use this to their advantage.

Perhaps we should look at those people who had 1 fake vote, and who fake voted for them.

It's fake after all. Right?

The Cultist certainly hasn't been around today despite being online. Panicking? Or given up? Both doesn't seem Town to me.

I also 'love' how The Doctor decides to set the standard to determine who's active or not. Who knows, he could be scum at the front trying to act all townie tommie, suspicious of everyone (including his scum buddies) so no one would possibly suspect he is scum. The Doctor is so helpful, analysing posts, talking to people, surely he's not scum. Who knows?

@The Doctor - Are you defending The Witch?

In this post he mocks the fake vote process denying it as viable to hash out suspicions and calls me out for calling out lurkers which at that point I had pretty clearly explained my point and stance on the subject. She concludes by alleging I defend the Witch; this proves he had not read the thread in a long time and was solely focused on addressing the post targetting him to redirect suspicion on another person (as was also done in his first post of the day).

Oh! and PGO has yet to vote today!

I rest my case

[Hinckley]

Also, someone privately defended The Paranoid Gun Owner to me, saying that this was her Town game in the one game she played. Apparently acting really Scummy is her Town game, that's actually what was said. Metagaming off of one game. Granted, I was saying she was a good lynch alternative to The Male Lover, so it wasn't out of the blue.

The Paranoid Gun Owner is acting super Scummy. I've also been talking to The Male Lover and was encouraging him to fight if he's Town, but go ahead and give up if he's Scum. Well...it looks more like he's given up. I was feeling nervous about The Male Lover lynch because of the speed of the bandwagon against him. But, maybe it is a good lynch after all.

I still find it odd that The Godfather has contradicted himself. His post about not metagaming The Male Lover came right after I told him, via potato, that I was starting to feel uncomfortable about lynching The Male Lover. It seemed like buddying up to me when I saw it and then moments later he told me he believed The Male Lover to be Town. Can they both be Scum? I feel like I'm missing something obvious.

[jimmynick]

So, Doctor, I did say I would support a PGO lynch. And you have a fair point about ML giving up.

Unvote: Male Lover (LegoDad)

Vote: Paranoid Gun Owner (Purpearljellyblob)

Anyone else want to turn this around?

[Hinckley]

LegoDad just stepped in and left without addressing the votes; if he has given up, he may very well be town .... FUUUUUUUUUUU we must lynch scum today; it's kind of imperative!

Why is giving up a Town tell? What a bunch of wimps... As I just said, I encouraged him, in private, that if he's Town he should fight fight fight fight fight. I told him that he should give up if he's Scum. I felt that was good encouragement to fight. I know that just because I said it doesn't mean it was going to happen that way, but I hate the idea that giving up is a Town tell. If you're Town and you're just going to give up if you are being lynched, then don't play the game.

[TrumpetKing]

I think we should focus on these two that we are lynching right now, and see what tomorrow brings us. There's no need to split the votes further.

And if ML gets lynched and turns up scum, you guys have just pinged me.

[Piratedave84]

Why is giving up a Town tell? What a bunch of wimps... As I just said, I encouraged him, in private, that if he's Town he should fight fight fight fight fight. I told him that he should give up if he's Scum. I felt that was good encouragement to fight. I know that just because I said it doesn't mean it was going to happen that way, but I hate the idea that giving up is a Town tell. If you're Town and you're just going to give up if you are being lynched, then don't play the game.

My logic here is that as a vanilla facing a lynch that's got steam, it's VERY hard to defend yourself (I've been there) efficiently. Secondly, if he was scum, he may be pushed by his teammates to fight for his life; in this case 5 others could give him ammo to fight with; it's more of a thought than a theory.

I also did not know the info you shared about the options you presented ML with.

PGO is reading the thread now, I can't wait to see what he comes up with!

[Hinckley]

Here's where the votes stand:

The Female Lover (Hinckley): 1 vote (Rufus)

The Blacked-Out Night Action Dude (Bob): 1 vote (fhomess)

The Jester (CallMePie): 1 vote (Tamamono)

The Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam): 8 votes (Hinckley, Clanure, DarthPotato, Tamamono, TrumpetKing, Adam, LEGODad, Bob)

The Male Lover (LEGODad): 4 votes (fhomess, CallMePie, mostlytechnic, Waterbrick Down)

The Tree Stump (Adam): 1 vote (Kadabra)

The First Day Lynch (Jameson): 1 vote (Esurient)

The Paranoid Gun Owner (purpearljellyblob): 2 votes (PirateDave84, jamesn)

[Piratedave84]

I think we should focus on these two that we are lynching right now, and see what tomorrow brings us. There's no need to split the votes further.

And if ML gets lynched and turns up scum, you guys have just pinged me.

Why is that? What if PGO is scum, then what?

[Hinckley]

The Jester is likewise slinking back into the gray baseplate all the time.

And yes, Doctor, I see The Paranoid Gun Owner staring at us. I do wonder what he will have to say.

[Purpearljellyblob]

Firstly; the first time you speak up (with pertinence) is when called out by Female Lover ... how convenient.

Secondly; Would I really be so bold as to come out in front, make all these allegations, gather flak, get accused, accumulate votes, produce analysis, incite discussion, etc. if I was scum? Would I scrutinize my own team and encourage people to look at their behaviour, of course I would!

Quite stupid that would be!

I wouldn't discount that kind of active behaviour. Anything can happen and anything is possible in this game. Especially when you weren't that consistent in Day 1 until you were being called out for being absent.

I don't follow. Please explain why people with only one fake vote are suspicious. It's an issue of wanting to make clear whom the intended lynchee is without forcing yourself into a corner because of the "only one unvote" thing. It's easy to make scum nervous with fake votes, because they know that the fake votes will probably turn into real votes.

The fake votes help us organise and make sure we don't make mistakes and get caught without a changeable vote.

As The Doctor said, the pill The Witch took yesterday is consistent with the claim. It gives us more information and stops us from jumping the gun and lynching The Witch without substantial evidence.

If the scum can manipulate real voting to their advantage, I don't see how this fake voting will fare any better. Like I said, it's fake after all. If town wants to continue with this, I am fine with it, but having this fake voting will mean that catching scum will be much harder because the scum will know what's coming and they can prepare, discuss their plan of action and how they can avoid being detected through voting analysis.

If the Cultist claimed he wanted to quit and probably be mod killed, he shouldn't have made his one post today. Now that he had done so, that adds more suspicions into his true intentions. Is he trying to act townie so we would unvote him? And waste it on someone we aren't sure of?

Also, I did not see any substantial input from the Male lover despite making quite a number of posts. Even if the male lover somehow miraculously turns the lynch around in the next few hours, I am sure he will be the topic of discussion of many for Day 3. With so much at hand, we cannot be distracted, so I shall therefore cast my vote on:

Vote: The Male Lover (LegoDad)

I am also surprised how some people are so quick to put me through the gallows without making an informed decision. Seems to me that the whole fake-vote thing isn't working right now. No offense Female Lover but this is one example of how the scum would use it to their advantage. I could imagine the scum putting up an act on the fake-votes and try to turn it around at the last minute.

[Piratedave84]

I wouldn't discount that kind of active behaviour. Anything can happen and anything is possible in this game. Especially when you weren't that consistent in Day 1 until you were being called out for being absent.

If the scum can manipulate real voting to their advantage, I don't see how this fake voting will fare any better. Like I said, it's fake after all. If town wants to continue with this, I am fine with it, but having this fake voting will mean that catching scum will be much harder because the scum will know what's coming and they can prepare, discuss their plan of action and how they can avoid being detected through voting analysis.

If the Cultist claimed he wanted to quit and probably be mod killed, he shouldn't have made his one post today. Now that he had done so, that adds more suspicions into his true intentions. Is he trying to act townie so we would unvote him? And waste it on someone we aren't sure of?

Also, I did not see any substantial input from the Male lover despite making quite a number of posts. Even if the male lover somehow miraculously turns the lynch around in the next few hours, I am sure he will be the topic of discussion of many for Day 3. With so much at hand, we cannot be distracted, so I shall therefore cast my vote on:

Vote: The Male Lover (LegoDad)

I am also surprised how some people are so quick to put me through the gallows without making an informed decision. Seems to me that the whole fake-vote thing isn't working right now. No offense Female Lover but this is one example of how the scum would use it to their advantage. I could imagine the scum putting up an act on the fake-votes and try to turn it around at the last minute.

You quoted an old post there .... So you are not going to address the case I made against you? Did you read it?

I would call my decision to vote for you as pretty informed unlike your decision to just pile on the bandwagon of ML; would you not say?

How is fake voting not working? it has generated leads and discussion which led to accusations and subsequently real votes, I would say that it works.

Feel free to come back and address thes points any time you want ...

oh! you disapeared again!

[Hinckley]

I am also surprised how some people are so quick to put me through the gallows without making an informed decision. Seems to me that the whole fake-vote thing isn't working right now. No offense Female Lover but this is one example of how the scum would use it to their advantage. I could imagine the scum putting up an act on the fake-votes and try to turn it around at the last minute.

You're composing and editing your post in a word processor or some other web app or program. I can tell by the markup in your post.

That being said, how obvious would it be if the Scum all jumped to one player at the last minute? I don't think that's a major concern. It would certainly cause a great deal of suspicion if we saw a bunch of people change their votes right before the voting closed. You think you're being put through the gallows yet you don't answer any of the concerns. You just blame it on a vast Scum conspiracy.

Ping.

This is the post you made after the whole Witch saga died down,

...

I will vote for the First Day Lynch but I will follow up with my vote when I get a chance to access real technology.

These are incredibly useful and insightful. I hope everyone is looking at them. It seems somewhat tedious at first, but you've made some really good points.

The Snake Charmer is a smart and usually active player and we're getting the mess from him that you detailed, coupled with The Cult Leader's accusation from yesterday.

jamesn pinged me earlier today when he chimed in with The Cult Leader against me. Yes, probably just because it was a suspicion against me, but he hid it amongst a whole list of other suspicions, almost quietly trying to add but not come right out and accuse. I had a few other thoughts when looking over your analysis:

5: If you don't trust the vig, yet you are speaking up for the vig???

What worries me more about what The Snake Charmer has said here is that he incorrectly says The Witch just repeated other people when The Witch was actually making a case against The Doctor, which nobody else was. So, he's not even bringing up a valid concern as what he is saying is not true. I think the vig is Town, but I think it was a bad decision to target The Witch after Day One.

Although, on a side note, The Witch hasn't done much to inspire confidence since.

12-13: Made a suggestion that if The Cultist is scum, that would clear you. My question is, if The Cultist is Town, would that clear you?

This was the strangest jump in logic I saw from him. It's incorrect. If The Cultist is Scum, I don't see how that could possibly clear him.

2-4: You said BONAD has faulty reasoning? Yet you are asking for another lynch candidate and not pursuing BONAD for answers? Suggestion: BONAD might be your third lynch choice.

What The First Day Lynch has posted here is complete fluff. Why would he spend so long going over the possibilities of what the vig should've though about not being successful when we already know what The Witch claimed and that it was true? Faulty logic but not suspicious

8: Male Lover had faulty reasoning too. Yet you are not defending him. Interesting.

Yes, the Male Lover's reasoning does suck and I still don't think he sees what people's concerns are. I've tried to talk to him about it. Anyway, the point is The First Day Lynch has contradicted himself. Blacked-Out Night Action Dude has faulty reasoning but he's not suspicious, while The Male Lover has faulty reasoning but is suspicious. And yet he hasn't answered for the contradiction.

[Hinckley]

1-3: I never mentioned the Vig being suspicious. What I was trying to get at was why they claimed to the Female Lover at the time they did. If they have such an important role, why be so jumpy with claiming it to people? It's more of me saying why the Female Lover was chosen for the Vig to claim to.

As previously mentioned, the vig was wondering if I was leading a Town block as I have in the past and wanted to know if I knew who the Town blocker was to see if they had blocked him/her to start weighing other options.

9-10: Yes, because I don't think he's scummy as others. My opinion differs from yours and I'd lean towards him coming up Town.

I don't see anybody else saying Blacked-Out Night Action Dude is Scummy.

I don't think there's support for those lynches today.

This shouldn't stop you from making a case, trying to get answers out of them or voting for one of them.

Male Lover had inconsistent statements and was convinced that the vig metagamed The Cop when it was already abundantly clear that the vig had not killed last night.

It's not even that. Male Lover thinks the same thing. It's the reasoning that The Cop was acting suspiciously that is the mindset that causes suspicion. Nobody should be voting for The Male Lover unless they understand this. When he said he thought The Cop was killed because he was suspicious, that pinged me. Because it speaks to the motive, or lack thereof of a killer. If he's Scum, he'd know they didn't kill him (meaning they killed The Vanilla Townie) and would assume that The Cop got himself killed by being suspicious. That confidence in an incorrect assumption about a motive makes me think he knows who the Scum killed. Scum don't kill players that would seem suspicious to them. They're not watching out for suspicious players. That's not their game. I'm thinking that most of The Town would assume that The Cop was killed because he's a good player and a threat. Especially after knowing that the vig didn't kill.

If you don't understand that, don't vote for The Male Lover, because you're just jumping on the bandwagon without understanding the concern.

The people I would want to examine more closely now (e.g. Snake Charmer, PGO) are not necessarily those whom the town would feel comfortable lynching today. Lynching is a democratic process. And I'm voting for Male Lover, so I shouldn't really orchestrate a lynch I'm not voting on.

Again, as a Townie you should be voicing these concerns and going after them. There's plenty of time in a day. If you can expose information or trip them up, we have plenty of time to turn a vote. Work hard for the Town, don't just think "Oh well, the votes are going one way, may as well go with them." How does that make sense. If you don't like who is being lynched, find a better candidate and try to convince people. Unless you have something to hide, don't want to slip up yourself or ultimately don't mind seeing a bad lynch, then by all means, continue.

Also, Re: BONAD and Female Lover: we all know they're in contact with the vig, so if the vig dies in the night they're in deep trouble. I doubt either is scum.

Yes, I would expect some scrutiny if the vig died. However, you stating something so obvious makes me a bit nervous. Let's not forget the Scum have a rolecop. The Town forgot that possibility in Harriet Slutter and it really hurt them. We've been told they have one here, so let's bear that in mind.

[jimmynick]

I haven't answered, you mean? I suppose I haven't. The distinction to me is that the vig (town) was supportive of BONAD's idea, and I can also tell what's going on with The Witch. It's less clear, more mysterious for ML's reasoning.

And FL, I was suspicious of you a the beginning of the day, but I'm not now, mainly because you're very transparent about what went on with the vig claim and his / her actions last night.

[Hinckley]

And FL, I was suspicious of you a the beginning of the day, but I'm not now, mainly because you're very transparent about what went on with the vig claim and his / her actions last night.

I wasn't suspicious of you until you said you'd be in trouble if Male Lover came up Town. You pinged me a little at the beginning of the day with your first post. I've looked at it again and you haven't followed any of your initial suspicions except for Blacked-Out Night Action Dude which you followed through to a logical conclusion. Comparing it with my suspicions of the day, I can see how you go from suspecting some people from Day One activity to suspecting others instead. I don't want to confuse people with too many accusations and I think my suspicions towards you has waned.

Conversationally, I hadn't intended to be transparent about The Witch / vig situation at all. Since The Blacked-Out Night Action Dude decided to blab against the vig's wishes (he said he was speaking for her, but that's not what she actually wanted) and quite honestly, my advice as well, I found it necessary to be as transparent as possible to avoid any mislynches. Unless you mean about relaying information about the vig and that he/she didn't kill last night. Then I'm just rambling now. I really would've preferred to keep the nature of the pill in the hands of a small group. What's done is done and we got a lot of reactions and info to analyze. So, even though I beat Blacked-Out Night Action Dude up about being a Blabbermouth Bob, the results of what happened aren't bad, perhaps not at all. It gave us lots to work with.

[Zepher]

The day has ended with the conviction of The Cultist and The Male Lover. Get those night actions in in 24 hours, no actions will be accepted after that time.

The Cultist (Fred Daniel Yam): 7 votes (Hinckley, Tamamono, TrumpetKing, Adam, LEGODad, Bob, Darth Potato)

The Male Lover (LEGODad): 5 votes (fhomess, CallMePie, mostlytechnic, Waterbrick Down, Purpearljellyblob)

The Tree Stump (Adam): 1 vote (Kadabra)

The First Day Lynch (Jameson): 1 vote (Esurient)

The Paranoid Gun Owner (purpearljellyblob): 2 votes (PirateDave84, jamesn)

Edited June 2, 2013 by Zepher

[LegoDad]

I'm not giving up, I just don't know what else there is to say.

Hinck, I have told you here and in private that the "who" was not as important as the "why" in the Cop kill. I was merely pointing out that I believed him to be killed because of his game, which would point to a Vig or Serial kill. I GET THAT!!!! I don't know how many times I have to say it before anyone believes me.

Well, the Werewolf posted while I was typing, so it doesn't matter anyway. Don't think that the irony isn't lost on me that I was metagame lynched for stating that I believed that Def was metagame killed.

[Zepher]

Candice tracks down her meals for the day, and in one terrifying gulp, swallows them both.

"Now everyone go to sleep, we've got like half an hour of night before the next day!"