jimmynick Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 On principle, because I don't want the day to end early (we can have productive discussion still): Unvote: Esther Thompson (Esurient) This is a very surprising and curious 180° turn, and in the space of 15-ish minutes no less. I fail to see how Boris' reasoning makes anything resembling sense, and your very rapid turnaround on the matter makes me a little suspicious to say the least. Consider what Clay said about Tristan's quick turnaround with regard to Boris's egregious metagaming, and the egregious metagaming itself. I can sort of see how Tristan could have not understood at all, then come to some understanding of the vote in 15 minutes, but why did Boris resort to metagaming to vote for Esther? He could vote in order to: Punish softclaiming Force Esther's claim Vote for someone he actually thinks is scum But he went for the metagame "Esther is set to private" vote. Why? That's probably the worst reason to vote for someone if you have three (or possibly more) other good reasons to do so.
TheBoyWonder Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I thought the other three, but I found it suspicious. It was not the main reason. Just an additional suspicion.
Kadabra Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I thought the other three, but I found it suspicious. It was not the main reason. Just an additional suspicion. But why bother bringing it up? Esurient's account was already set to private before the game, and other people have private but you aren't scrutinizing them. It was just really bad logic.
TheBoyWonder Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I was not aware of either fact, I was just raising a potential point. I accept it was incredibly bd logic, and I will stop metagaming.
MagPiesRUs Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Patrick Devon (Piratedave84), for reasons already stated.
TrumpetKing Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 On principle, because I don't want the day to end early (we can have productive discussion still): The day won't end early unless everybody votes or the time limit ends, I assume. Why else would there be an "everybody must vote" rule if the lynch ended early?
jimmynick Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Capt. Whatshisface said if there was a unanimous vote, he'd close the day early. I unvoted to make sure that if the other four who hadn't voted, voted for Esther, the day wouldn't end early. Needless to say, we haven't had as much discussion as I had hoped since.
Tamamono Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 Vote Count Esther Thompson (Esurient) - 17 (LegoDad, Trumpetking, TheBoyWonder, Kadabra, Bob, Kristel, CallMePie, Capt. Redblade, mostlytechnic, PirateDave84, Purpearljellyblob, Dannylonglegs, Adam, Scubacarrot, Esurient, Peanuts, Zakura) Kenneth Emanuel (KielDaMan) - 4 (penalty, penalty, penalty, penalty) Patrick Devon (PirateDave84) - 1 (TinyPiesRUs) No vote - 4 (Clanure, Mencot, KielDaMan, jamesn) 16.5 hours until Sunset.
Piratedave84 Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Considering the events that unfolded, this is kind of a pointless argument we are having here. I still stand by my point that claiming publicly is/was a bad move. I am pretty sure that the opposite Of your argument is true in that scum would probably have asked Esther to claim publicly in order to have a definitive fix on her role. I ask you the same question; how would asking someone to claim in private be a benefit to scum? Sorry for the previous post; my phone is retarded I'm going to go ahead and Vote: Patrick Devon (Piratedave84), for reasons already stated. Is this the reason you are refering to? Because there's no way to be sure whether said supporter is a townie or a Coyote. It's way too early in this game of life to be sure about someone's allegiance. I didn't say there was anything flawed in asking her to claim publicly. I said it was flawed to ask her to claim to someone in private, for the reasons I've already stated. Claiming in private does nothing to help her situation at all. Perhaps now you can say your vote is justified, but you voted for Esther before she made her vanilla claim. The reason you gave for voting for her was because she hadn't revealed her role in public yet. Which seems to go against everything you've just said. If so you omitted to account for this: Considering the events that unfolded, this is kind of a pointless argument we are having here. I still stand by my point that claiming publicly is/was a bad move. I am pretty sure that the opposite Of your argument is true in that scum would probably have asked Esther to claim publicly in order to have a definitive fix on her role. I ask you the same question; how would asking someone to claim in private be a benefit to scum? And so everyone is clear, this was my justification: I'm tired of this pretend claim business and all the wild accusations; I now believe that Esther does not have a PR as if she did she would/ should have claimed by now. I did not base my vote on her claiming or not but rather on my belief that Esther was lying all along. Her later claim reinforced my point. Your vote and general behaviour leads me to believe that you know Esther is town and you are therefore steering clear of her lynch.
Esurient Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I was not aware of either fact, I was just raising a potential point. I accept it was incredibly bd logic, and I will stop metagaming. If you are town, yes, you should stop meta gaming. But I also see the points made against Esther. I echo Damien's points, even if you survive the lynch, you will die or be blocked, because the Scum will know that you have a PR. That is all if you are town of course. But I read it as a scum flail, extremely similar to some of the work I had done in Yakuza, trying desperately to move the lynch onto someone else.Therefore, I Vote:Esther Thompson (Esurient) Boris, on Day 1, the reason you voted for me is not because you read me as scum, it's because of something you did when you were scum in your previous life. I think you are confused as to what is a scum read and a play style read. If I were to play as you do, many people would read scum to me, but no, going down that path is misleading. Anyway, I will Unvote: Esther Thompson (Esurient).
Kristel Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Esther, if you're town, I'd like to know why the hell you would pull a stunt as you did. You kept us focused on you for a day and a half, only to find out you're vanilla. You could have declared that from the start. I'm struggling with the concept of believing anything you say right now. Also, you were willing to do this to save your own butt. What else can we expect from you? You've let us all know you're here to win. How much more are you willing to hurt town to win?
Mencot Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 On principle, because I don't want the day to end early (we can have productive discussion still): Unvote: Esther Thompson (Esurient) Consider what Clay said about Tristan's quick turnaround with regard to Boris's egregious metagaming, and the egregious metagaming itself. I can sort of see how Tristan could have not understood at all, then come to some understanding of the vote in 15 minutes, but why did Boris resort to metagaming to vote for Esther? He could vote in order to: Punish softclaiming Force Esther's claim Vote for someone he actually thinks is scum But he went for the metagame "Esther is set to private" vote. Why? That's probably the worst reason to vote for someone if you have three (or possibly more) other good reasons to do so. There was no need for that (altough how could you know what I was gonna do) but I am not gonna vote until the end of the day, because of what has happened and that I have no clue who to vote for. I guess the vote will be on Esther but I will reread the comments from today to try to find something more fishy from the folks I find scummy. And probably Kenneth won´t be voteing today either, he haven´t said anything yet so!
MagPiesRUs Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I did not base my vote on her claiming or not but rather on my belief that Esther was lying all along. Her later claim reinforced my point. And what led you to believe she was lying? From what you've written, it seems like the reason you thought this was because she hadn't claimed publicly yet. Your vote and general behaviour leads me to believe that you know Esther is town and you are therefore steering clear of her lynch. Well yes, I'm not confident that she's a Coyote, so I'm not voting for her. She's definitely going to be lynched today anyway, so I'd rather do something productive with my vote than throw it away on a bandwagon.
Piratedave84 Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 And what led you to believe she was lying? From what you've written, it seems like the reason you thought this was because she hadn't claimed publicly yet. Well yes, I'm not confident that she's a Coyote, so I'm not voting for her. She's definitely going to be lynched today anyway, so I'd rather do something productive with my vote than throw it away on a bandwagon. Her initially not claiming did play a part in my belief that she was lying, yes. I still think that she is not vanilla; why would a vanilla townie put on a big circus and distract us from other events 2 days in a row? Your vote is fair, time will tell who is right.
Mencot Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 It seems Esther´s gonna be lynched but I feel she is town but her coming faith servers her right for playing with us. Too bad if she is townie that she played this stupied, because i don´t understand the logic. (little possiblity she is scum and all this was an atempt to fool us all) But I am gonna Vote: Beatrice Kingsley / Bob Put some heat on her, 3 comments today (Okay (not ok-ey) I have said little but) 3 comments full of nothing Come on you can do better than that, what you hiding? I, Betty, am here to provide you with my insight on this current situation. Blah blah blah "two townies dead"; filler filler filler "such a tragedy"; fluff fluff fluff "we'll work twice as hard today"; yammer yammer yammer "did anyone learn anything last night?" In all seriousness, I'm willing to vote for Esther today. I'm willing to assume we have a Vig and that he was likely blocked or that his/her target was protected. Any logical vig would target Esther as she received the next highest amount of votes. It's because of this that it's my belief that she was protected, which isn't exactly comforting. Either that or the Vig was blocked and we're screwed. Either or, but it's still a lead. I'd hardly say fluffy. Vote: Esther Thompson / Esurient
Esurient Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Vote: Jessica Nelson (jamesn) for buddying behind the alleyways of Silver City Now, where is the noose...
LegoDad Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Since Day 2 is all but wrapped up, what are everyone's thoughts for tomorrow? I definitely have my questions on some of the comments that Zachary has made, and I would definitely like Beatrice to come out of the woodwork. Hopefully we can figure something out from tonight and some real information tomorrow.
jimmynick Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I think I shall Vote: Boris Wheeler (The Boy Wonder) for reasons I've already stated, and because I don't think his response was adequate. Vote: Jessica Nelson (jamesn) for buddying behind the alleyways of Silver City It's like Santa Claus, isn't it? I want to believe you're town because I don't think you're telling the whole truth in the centre of this claiming circus, and I wanted you to give us a suspect worth voting for over you. It's you who isn't doing yourself any favours by giving up.
Piratedave84 Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 I think I shall Vote: Boris Wheeler (The Boy Wonder) for reasons I've already stated, and because I don't think his response was adequate. It's like Santa Claus, isn't it? I want to believe you're town because I don't think you're telling the whole truth in the centre of this claiming circus, and I wanted you to give us a suspect worth voting for over you. It's you who isn't doing yourself any favours by giving up. Don't forget to bold your vote!
TheBoyWonder Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 My reasons for voting Esther are: The way she took so long/ never answered our questions, The aye/nay thing, Her general game play, And her soft claim yesterday, (which now she claims Vanilla) And my extremely misguided logic regarding her private setting. I accept it was atrocious logic, but I felt at the time it was a possibility it was linked to her behavior. I apologize for the metagaming. I also apologize for not answering your questions fully at the time.
Clanure Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Well, I waited to see what else might come up, and there's really not much. A few bits here and there, but nothing that feels like a solid lead for me. My vote for Esther from Day 1 still stands. I was going to vote for my next suspicion (considering we already have an overwhelming majority), but that doesn't feel right. Vote: Esther (Esurient) Even if her claim is true (hard to believe at this point), we don't need that type of circus taking us away from the task at hand. A true townie wouldn't have pulled those shenanigans.
LegoDad Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Well, I waited to see what else might come up, and there's really not much. A few bits here and there, but nothing that feels like a solid lead for me. My vote for Esther from Day 1 still stands. I was going to vote for my next suspicion (considering we already have an overwhelming majority), but that doesn't feel right. Vote: Esther (Esurient) Even if her claim is true (hard to believe at this point), we don't need that type of circus taking us away from the task at hand. A true townie wouldn't have pulled those shenanigans. Who is your next suspicion? Might as well get it out there.
jimmynick Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 My reasons for voting Esther are: The way she took so long/ never answered our questions, The aye/nay thing, Her general game play, And her soft claim yesterday, (which now she claims Vanilla) And my extremely misguided logic regarding her private setting. I accept it was atrocious logic, but I felt at the time it was a possibility it was linked to her behavior. I apologize for the metagaming. I also apologize for not answering your questions fully at the time. Thank you for being clear; I appreciate it. Today seems to be most unsatisfactory. I still wouldn't feel good about voting for Esther. Connie, please tell us who your next suspect is, as Liz requested. Let's Unvote: Boris Wheeler (The Boy Wonder) and choose someone arbitrarily so as to avoid penalties. Vote: Kane DeBois (Kadabra)
Tamamono Posted July 1, 2013 Author Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Vote Count Esther Thompson (Esurient) - 17 (LegoDad, Trumpetking, TheBoyWonder, Kadabra, Bob, Kristel, CallMePie, Capt. Redblade, mostlytechnic, PirateDave84, Purpearljellyblob, Dannylonglegs, Adam, Scubacarrot, Peanuts, Zakura, Clanure) Kenneth Emanuel (KielDaMan) - 4 (penalty, penalty, penalty, penalty) Patrick Devon (PirateDave84) - 1 (TinyPiesRUs) Beatrice Kingsley (Bob) - 1 (Mencot Jessica Nelson (jamesn) - 1 (Esurient) Kane DeBois (Kadabra) - 1 (jamesn) No vote - 1 (KielDaMan) 1 hour until Sunset. Edited July 1, 2013 by Tamamono
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