Heroica RPG Rules & FAQ

[Flipz]

Dumb question: is 120 the record for enemy Defense in Heroica? Because if so that's actually kind of impressive. Maybe I should hollow the Defensive Golem out and wear him like a suit.

While I'm here, here's a couple of miscellaneous Artifact concepts I've worked up but don't really have a place for:

Cinnamon Toothpaste - (Attacks originating from the owner's dragon companion deal burning equal to 1/5 the dragon companion's level; accessory, suitable for Dragoons only)

Armlet of Draconic Rage - (Changes Dragon Aid to Dragon's Wrath: Petit Breath; accessory [handwear?], suitable for Dragoons only)

Edited December 18, 2014 by Flipz

[Flipz]

I don't know if Aura can be counted as a positive effect. It's not a negative one, to be sure, but it's not exactly positive either. To my mind it's more like Trial, if it can even be treated like an effect at all. I don't know, it just seems a little off to be able to remove it like that--does that mean a Neutralizer would remove Aura? Would a Warden under the effects of a Tiger Balm be unable to use their SHIELD-skill? That would make it the only SHIELD skill that could be removed/prevented by consumables--and if one can remove/ignore Aura, does that mean one can remove/ignore Sentinel or Phalanx or Guardian Angel?

Look at it this way--if one were to factor a Warden as an enemy, the Special roll wouldn't be worded as "Aura - [Warden name here] gains the Aura-effect until the end of the next Round", but rather it would use the wording of Sandy's own rule page for Warden: "The Warden's natural protective powers radiate, temporarily doubling their current health regardless of the maximum health, but also drawing all hostile attacks, special skills, and Free Hits to them until the end of the next Round. Afterwards, the Warden keeps all the remaining health that does not exceed the maximum value." Nowhere in that description is an effect implied nor stated, so a Warden enemy who was immune to all effects would still be able to roll their Special; it stands to reason that a Hero's Aura works the same way.

[Endgame]

My reasoning is that any modifier to a Hero's statistics not in their equipped items would be an effect, which I further reasoned that since it was the one and only result of their shield, it should be positive. Plus, unlike Guardian Angel, is is almost always noted on the hero's stats themselves.

[CMP]

My reasoning is that any modifier to a Hero's statistics not in their equipped items would be an effect, which I further reasoned that since it was the one and only result of their shield, it should be positive. Plus, unlike Guardian Angel, is is almost always noted on the hero's stats themselves.

That's for easy reference. I don't consider it an effect, personally. If it is, it should be added to the list of positive effects on the front page of this topic.

[Flipz]

My reasoning is that any modifier to a Hero's statistics not in their equipped items would be an effect, which I further reasoned that since it was the one and only result of their shield, it should be positive. Plus, unlike Guardian Angel, is is almost always noted on the hero's stats themselves.

Plenty of QMs do note *Sentinel* and *Guardian Angel* that way, though, and most importantly *Phalanx (3 Rounds)* is listed that way, too.

[Endgame]

I would consider Phalanx an effect as well. I don't see any reason why the definition of effect shouldn't be something that influences the hero's statistics?

[Brickdoctor]

I would consider Phalanx an effect as well. I don't see any reason why the definition of effect shouldn't be something that influences the hero's statistics?

Phalanx doesn't affect anyone's statistics. It's just a constant *0.5 multiplier applied to Damage calculations.

[Flipz]

I would consider Phalanx an effect as well. I don't see any reason why the definition of effect shouldn't be something that influences the hero's statistics?

Because it opens up a lot of loopholes with Neutralizers and Tiger Balms, as well as loopholes for enemy Specials like yours, all of which twist around the basic intention of the rules. Regulator's Optimism and Rally and Battle Style, Paragon's Truce, Hunter's Favoring, Guardian Knight's Mirror Sentinel, Paladin's Guardian Angel, Knight's Sentinel, Winged Warrior's Flying, Skirmisher's Phalanx, Alchemist's Instant Items, Beast Warrior's Beast Form--all of these "influence the hero's statistics", all of them are commonly indicated by *skill name*, and all of them would be removed by a Neutralizer or a Tiger Balm under your interpretation. It's not a path we want to go down, believe me.

[Zepher]

I would have to agree with Flipz. But I'm fine leaving the last round as it is, personally.

[Endgame]

At this point I would think it's best to refer to Sandy, but in my opinion it would be best if we didn't restrict what counts as an "effect" to the list in the rules page. For example, I would still very much consider camaraderie a positive effect - some with aura, as you guys probably have guessed.

[Myrddyn]

I also agree with Flipz; If Aura is a positive effect, then so is Guardian Angel, and an Assasin's 1/6 instakill chance, and steal/gold gain, and special guard, and Berserker's *Furious* should be remediable. Not my quest, though.

[Endgame]

Out of curiosity, how is the Assasin's 1/6 roll an effect, even theoretically?

[The Legonater]

Out of curiosity, how is the Assasin's 1/6 roll an effect, even theoretically?

I believe what he's getting at is Aura and Guardian Angels are Class skills like 1/6 roll, and should be treated as such.

[Myrddyn]

Some Guy

Level 15 Assassin *Murderous* (All successful hits have 1/6 chance to instantly kill target).

I wouldn't say it's an effect, but then I wouldn't say Aura is an effect. What Legonator said: Aura is a Warden's shield roll.

[Brickdoctor]

I also agree with Flipz; If Aura is a positive effect, then so is Guardian Angel, and an Assasin's 1/6 instakill chance, and steal/gold gain, and special guard, and Berserker's *Furious* should be remediable. Not my quest, though.

...and on that note, that would make a Regulator's Orderly/Chaotic status an effect, which leads to impossible situations with consumables because it makes no sense to remove those effects -- a Regulator must have one of them at any given time.

[Endgame]

...and on that note, that would make a Regulator's Orderly/Chaotic status an effect, which leads to impossible situations with consumables because it makes no sense to remove those effects -- a Regulator must have one of them at any given time.

That I'd disagree with. Aura affects someone's statistics, while Orderly/Chaotic affects someone's rolls. (Or, more specifically, what each roll does, as Lucky influences rolls as well.)

[Waterbrick Down]

Chiming in as I feel this is an important issue, but as in the case of Guardian Angel and Sentinel, I don't believe Aura should be counted as a positive effect. Nearly all positive effects as far as I can remember last longer than 1 round. Aura needs to be rerolled to continue.

[CMP]

That I'd disagree with. Aura affects someone's statistics, while Orderly/Chaotic affects someone's rolls. (Or, more specifically, what each roll does, as Lucky influences rolls as well.)

It affects stats, too. Ordelry/Chaotic determines what elemental attacks you have.

I don't want to call any of these positive effects, and I maintain that any that are need to be added to the list of them here.

[Waterbrick Down]

It affects stats, too. Ordelry/Chaotic determines what elemental attacks you have.

I don't want to call any of these positive effects, and I maintain that any that are need to be added to the list of them here.

Agreed, I think it'd be good to see Comrodary, Companionship, and Nimble added to the positive effects list.

[Brickdoctor]

That I'd disagree with. Aura affects someone's statistics, while Orderly/Chaotic affects someone's rolls. (Or, more specifically, what each roll does, as Lucky influences rolls as well.)

But then according to your definition, that very example of Lucky wouldn't be an effect, since it doesn't affect any statistics...

(Long story short: I don't think Aura should be considered an effect. I can see how it seems a little more ambiguous than Sentinel or Guardian Angel because of the HP doubling, but I don't think it makes sense to consider it an effect.)

[Myrddyn]

That I'd disagree with. Aura affects someone's statistics, while Orderly/Chaotic affects someone's rolls. (Or, more specifically, what each roll does, as Lucky influences rolls as well.)

Aura actually is a roll. The Warden Shield description is:

1. SHIELD: Aura - The Warden's natural protective powers radiate, temporarily doubling their current health regardless of the maximum health, but also drawing all hostile attacks, special skills, and free hits to them until the end of the next round. Afterwards, the Warden keeps all remaining health that does not exceed the maximum value.

If anything, perhaps there is a case for the doubling of the Warden's maximum health being a positive effect, but even then that would not prevent the Aura drawing all attacks to the Warden.

[Endgame]

If anything, perhaps there is a case for the doubling of the Warden's maximum health being a positive effect, but even then that would not prevent the Aura drawing all attacks to the Warden.

If aura is a roll, though, why would it be induced from an item (Pheles Kris?)

Fair point, Brickdoctor. I'm generalizing too much.

[Brickdoctor]

Huh, on the other hand, this reminded me of a past result, and, interestingly enough, Sandy appears to have implied that Aura is a positive effect:

OoC: Can I be Remedied of the Aura effect?

No, positive effects cannot be removed by a Remedy. You'll have it for the next round, unless you roll another Shield.

It's a little ambiguous (and two years old), but given this precedent, I think it could be argued that Aura is in fact an effect. So I wouldn't complain if the Round that sparked this discussion was left as-is, but if the current ruling is that Aura is an effect, I think it's a rule that should be changed.

[Endgame]

Perhaps that's what I was basing my judgment on subconsciously?

I'd still argue that it's a positive effect (especially since I just remembered an item can cause it), but it may be best to just defer to Sandy for this.

[Myrddyn]

If aura is a roll, though, why would it be induced from an item (Pheles Kris?)

There are items with insta-kill chance - Erik's toilet plunger, for instance, and there are healing items, but that doesn't make an assassin's instakill chance or a cleric's healing ability suddenly a positive effect. Sure, see what Sandy says, but I will be very surprised if that's the case.