Heroica RPG Rules & FAQ

[UsernameMDM]

No to the hands, since they don't count as a weapon, and you need a weapon to use poison.

That might be the answer there, but waiting on Sandy to clarify.

[Lind Whisperer]

Don't forget, everyone, that these are creatures that can breath fire. Ergo, pretty tough. Also, venom and poison are not synonymous. Poison is taken internally, venom affects the blood stream. The potions sold in the store are Venoms - by definition, they can't injure the dragon internally. People have, in real life, drunken the venom of the most poisonous snakes, and been perfectly fine afterwards.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Lind Whisperer

[Kintobor]

Don't forget, everything, that these are creatures that can breath fire. Ergo, their mouth must be pretty be tough - if it can withstand fire, it's not too far a stretch to suggest that poison, at least in the mouth, wouldn't be admitted into the bloodstream.

So dragons are immune to poison? Doesn't say so in their stats. I don't want to get into an argument over how dragons breath their breath weapon, because one, it's not that important, and two, different dragon species probably have different ways of using their breath attack.

Also, not all dragons breath fire. Some breath lightning, others spew water, some exhale frost, depends on the species.

[Lind Whisperer]

Note to self - make all edits to post before posting...

Also, not all dragons breath fire. Some breath lightning, others spew water, some exhale frost, depends on the species.

Good point. But the venom/poison thing still stands. (See edited post.)

[Endgame]

Also, not all dragons breath fire. Some breath lightning, others spew water, some exhale frost, depends on the species.

And some just roar really really really loudly.

I'll say I'm in support for being able to venomize dragons.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Endgame

[Kintobor]

It says that items can be used on dragons, so I'll drop it, but it's another reason the class irks me. It's a good idea in theory, and the mechanics are fine for the most part, but in my opinion the ability to switch in and out of the class with zero consequences when handling a dragon bugs me. Now it seems like we need a book called "How to Poison Your Dragon".

I still seriously think we need a way to have the PC start with a dragon egg and not an already hatched dragon past level 40. The class is about raising and creating a bond with a dragon, and I feel it's just one of those classes where instead of benefitting by sticking with it and watching the dragon grow, it's best to just leave it until you're at an extremely high level and reap the benefits of not doing a thing, because an incredibly large, mature dragon is going to instantly trust a random stranger.

[UsernameMDM]

the class irks me.

Then just don't play it.

[Kintobor]

Then just don't play it.

I have no intention to since it doesn't fit into any plans I have for my characters, but I just have a problem with the class. It wasn't an attack on any player, and if it felt like such I'm sorry. It's just a class that frustrates me on it's principles, not it's mechanics.

[Asphalt]

Poison can be applied to weapons. Dragons are not weapons.

[Sandy]

Poison can be applied to weapons. Dragons are not weapons.

Exactly. I wonder how people can even misinterpret such a clear rule...

Also, venom and poison are not synonymous. Poison is taken internally, venom affects the blood stream. The potions sold in the store are Venoms - by definition, they can't injure the dragon internally. People have, in real life, drunken the venom of the most poisonous snakes, and been perfectly fine afterwards.

You can blame me not being native English speaker for that. I always thought they were synonymous, until I read about it from Wikipedia recently. You are incorrect about the difference, though: venoms are toxins that are injected by a sting or a bite of an animal, while poison refers to any substance that causes disturbances to organisms when absorbed by a sufficient amount (ie. just about everything).

But as this is a game, we cannot really be willy-nilly about terms and make our own wild interpretations, but must follow the spirit of the rules when in doubt. Otherwise there's no point in having rules at all.

[UsernameMDM]

Exactly. I wonder how people can even misinterpret such a clear rule...

Just making sure. Never hurts to ask.

[Duvors]

... it's best to just leave it until you're at an extremely high level and reap the benefits of not doing a thing, because an incredibly large, mature dragon is going to instantly trust a random stranger.

Uh... no. You can't do that, there is a distrust mechanic that prevents that from happening. It's right there in the rules.

[K-Nut]

Uh... no. You can't do that, there is a distrust mechanic that prevents that from happening. It's right there in the rules.

They got rid of that with the class re-works.

[UsernameMDM]

Uh... no. You can't do that, there is a distrust mechanic that prevents that from happening. It's right there in the rules.

That penalty was removed & replaced with the XP penalty if either the dragoon or dragon are KO'd at the end of the round. You can role play mistrust/bonding all you want, but it's not a game mechanic because it was penalizing players for a lack of QM/rep rewards.

[Lind Whisperer]

Uh... no. You can't do that, there is a distrust mechanic that prevents that from happening. It's right there in the rules.

Not anymore - it was removed in the class updates. Edited June 26, 2015 by Lind Whisperer

[Sandy]

Just making sure. Never hurts to ask.

When it forces me to explain painstakingly obvious rules (or rather, makes people confused about them), it does hurt a bit.

Treat your pet dragon like another party member, not like an item. That way you will know what you can use on it and what you can't.

[Endgame]

Odd proposal, but here we go: Dragoons all start with a dragon egg, and it matures as it goes on quests with the Dragoon. Level is still equal to a Draggon's level, but it only really matures as its used.

Also, on another note, I don't know what Smaragdea is doing with those eggs, because those things grow fast.

[CMP]

Treat your pet dragon like another party member, not like an item. That way you will know what you can use on it and what you can't.

You say that like Hoke wouldn't absolutely use a Venom on another party member if it worked. Or on himself.

Edited June 26, 2015 by CallMePie

[Emjajoas]

I feel like a bit of an idiot, because I'm sure a mechanic like this was talked about and thought about, but

If Dragoon, or, specifically, the Dragon's level being based on the Dragoon's level is an issue, then can we not just have Dragons level up themselves? When you get into the class, your dragon is level 1 and it grows in a similar way to a hero? I suppose implementing that rule would be a little bit unfair for current dragoons, and certainly harder to implement (because we'd have to go back and calculate), but in the long run it might save us a lot of trouble-- especially if there are players who are irked by the class. Which is understandable-- It makes sense to me that Dragoon should be something someone sticks with in order to "raise their dragon" and is rewarded for committing to the class.

I think that adds to the whole deal of "raising your dragon" and "building a bond," and with tweaks, the class could probably scale a lot better, too.

[Lind Whisperer]

I feel like a bit of an idiot, because I'm sure a mechanic like this was talked about and thought about, but

If Dragoon, or, specifically, the Dragon's level being based on the Dragoon's level is an issue, then can we not just have Dragons level up themselves? When you get into the class, your dragon is level 1 and it grows in a similar way to a hero? I suppose implementing that rule would be a little bit unfair for current dragoons, and certainly harder to implement (because we'd have to go back and calculate), but in the long run it might save us a lot of trouble-- especially if there are players who are irked by the class. Which is understandable-- It makes sense to me that Dragoon should be something someone sticks with in order to "raise their dragon" and is rewarded for committing to the class.

I think that adds to the whole deal of "raising your dragon" and "building a bond," and with tweaks, the class could probably scale a lot better, too.

A., this is a reasonable solution., B., as a future Dragoon myself, I absolutely vote against it. We need our OP'd dragons!

But seriously, there are no restrictions on other Expert classes. Alchemists don't have to train their potion skills. Necromancers don't have to practice raising undead. Why should Dragoons have to undergo "leveling" when the other Expert classes don't?

[Endgame]

One is a trade, another is both thematically and mechanically a living creature/companion. I know I said less than a hour ago game mechanics don't need to be logical, but when the class is designed to have a dragon serve alongside the Dragoon, it gets a little weird, moreso than a Necromancer/Evoker summon.

[Lind Whisperer]

One is a trade, another is both thematically and mechanically a living creature/companion.

Fair enough.

I know I said less than a hour ago game mechanics don't need to be logical, but when the class is designed to have a dragon serve alongside the Dragoon, it gets a little weird, moreso than a Necromancer/Evoker summon.

*Starts waiting for someone to suggest that Dragons be ether based.*

Here's another point no one's raised - the feasibility of having Dragons at level 1. You're going to take a level 1 character(or close enough for arguments sake, let's just agree "close enough") into a battle for 30+? The only reason #103 worked was because it was a mixture of exploration and battles that had been lightly tinkered with so that there was at least one enemy Lind could fight without being KO'd instantly(and even then, I did a lot of standing around while everyone else fought). Taking a level 1(or close enough) "companion" into a level 30+ battle is just asking for headaches for everyone.

[Emjajoas]

Why should Dragoons have to undergo "leveling" when the other Expert classes don't?

Because each class should have individual Strengths and Drawbacks. Dragoon's biggest drawback if you had to level a dragon would be just that-- the dragon has to level up as well, and you need to commit to the class in order to get really strong in it. Which, originally, was part of the class' thematic.

The strength would be that a high-level dragon would be a strong companion that's basically an extra party member "for free." No ether cost to have a dragon summoned or anything. A strong dragon would be earned, which, again, was part of the class' original theme.

We should probably take this over to the Expert Job Class Discussion Topic, though, yeah? If you wanna talk about it a bit, that is.

Here's another point no one's raised - the feasibility of having Dragons at level 1. You're going to take a level 1 character(or close enough for arguments sake, let's just agree "close enough") into a battle for 30+? The only reason #103 worked was because it was a mixture of exploration and battles that had been lightly tinkered with so that there was at least one enemy Lind could fight without being KO'd instantly(and even then, I did a lot of standing around while everyone else fought). Taking a level 1(or close enough) "companion" into a level 30+ battle is just asking for headaches for everyone.

Nobody said a level 1 dragon would have to be the same as a level 1 hero. I said if they leveled up in a similar way, it would make more sense and be a more sound game mechanic, in my opinion. A base health of 30, which is what they are now, and a decent base Power/power bonus with a steady gain per level.

[Flipz]

If there's going to be some kind of independent leveling for Dragons, though, then it doesn't make sense for the Dragon to have to go away and stop leveling if the player changes class; you can't have it both ways. The whole problem with Dragoon stems from the fact that it's not player choice that determines when they can get their Dragon, it's up to the whims of QM reputation drops. (Well, that and all the baggage from existing Dragoons and how the class was in the past.) Getting one of the six or seven eggs is played as a Really Big Deal, but it's the only class for which that sort of thing happens. I...I almost think that the Shadeaux need a new Expert Class concept altogether, with Dragoon being given out more like Winged Warrior, since Dragoon is just so different than any of the other faction-based Expert Classes.

Here's another point no one's raised - the feasibility of having Dragons at level 1. You're going to take a level 1 character(or close enough for arguments sake, let's just agree "close enough") into a battle for 30+? The only reason #103 worked was because it was a mixture of exploration and battles that had been lightly tinkered with so that there was at least one enemy Lind could fight without being KO'd instantly(and even then, I did a lot of standing around while everyone else fought). Taking a level 1(or close enough) "companion" into a level 30+ battle is just asking for headaches for everyone.

No, 103 didn't work, period. No offense to Kinto, but mechanically 103 did not work. At all.

Blah, words. Lemme take a minute and type up some more coherent thoughts in the Expert Class Discussion.

[Kintobor]

No, 103 didn't work, period. No offense to Kinto, but mechanically 103 did not work. At all.

None taken.

I...I almost think that the Shadeaux need a new Expert Class concept altogether, with Dragoon being given out more like Winged Warrior, since Dragoon is just so different than any of the other faction-based Expert Classes.

I kind of have to agree with this statement. I guess the only issue afterwards is what do you make the Shadeux Expert class?

I'm going to sneak on over to the Expert Class thread and talk there too. *sneaksneaksneak*