Heroica RPG Rules & FAQ

[Tachyon]

I sort of want a Base Class Change if this nerf actually occurs.

[Vash the Stampede]

Whilst rogue classes can gain lots of money all the advance classes gain gold depending on the level of the enemies they are facing. I think this says a bit about how QMs use both high level enemies and multiple enemies to damage the average party. I do think that the gold made does need a cap at most, however I think QMs need more creative ways to kill the party like back in earlier quests. With the amount of enemies chucked into the average battle these days even low level enemies would make a lot of gold, make them high leveled and the problem escalates further.

[Waterbrick Down]

The most "bad-megablock" class is barbarian. They can cause much more damage.

And I'm pretty sure that the lock-picking stuff was removed a while ago

Seriously though, I'd say more rogues play the class for role-playing reasons than stats.

[Pandora]

Thing is, a Rogue's effectiveness almost relies on us being doped up 24/7.

Actually, I disagree. If you compare Nyx and Guts, for instance. Both half Barbarian. Look at their Extra Critical Hits - the multipliers are identical (WPx3 + Level). Because Guts has made a fortune, his WP is massive, plus he's got all kinds of gems imbued to account for the majority of enemies.

So you compare a Raider's ECH and you can still get massive elemental damage (possibly multiple) through a huge WP, versus a BattleMage's ECH (bearing in mind that BM is supposed to be the absolute pinnacle of physical and elemental damage) and with a spell it's a single element multiplier that costs Ether, through a weaker weapon, or just a plain physical strike with a weaker weapon that might conserve Ether but still isn't going to do nearly as much damage. That's before the Raider is buffed to infinity on consumables that a BattleMage can't afford.

I completely understand why Rogue characters feel that some of the essence of their class is threatened by this, but actually the Rogue based classes are removing the need for any other classes and threatening everyone else, in a way. They have the money to buy/ upgrade their stuff to completely and utterly outstrip every other class, and it's ok to have money - money's why people went Rogue in the first place (clearly gold-gaining is the major draw given how many people are objecting), but to say it isn't having an impact on the rest of the game is naïve, really. To say other people are jealous is also naïve; if everyone wanted gold, everyone would be a Rogue or a Rogue based advanced class.

I think Scuba's suggestion is incredibly reasonable, and that the Rogue classes will still be earning a remarkable amount of gold even after its implementation. I would suggest looking at other classes to find a way to buff them, but I doubt that will happen.

[Pyrovisionary]

I agree. We rogues make too much money.

[Jebediahs]

Furthermore, since the Fields of Glory are mostly without humanoids, this would effectively render the fields unusable for moneymaking.

That seems a bit unfair, though. That rogue is fighting and contributing just as well as the rest of the party, why punish them for it?

I can't believe people are falling for it again. This is yet another ploy of Scuba's to prevent anyone else from becoming as physically powerful as he is. He has made it apparent that he will never quest in the Fields because of its lack of story (reference) so he wants to prevent anyone else from benefiting from the place.

Now that he has a ridiculously high WP weapon, immunity to the elementals and enough consumables to support multiple 5-man parties across 15+ battles, he seeks to stop anyone else from catching him in power. Nerf gold gainers if you want to let him win...again. Scubacarrot needs to be stopped.

- Team Endgame

[CorneliusMurdock]

Really, a character should never able to afford everything they want. Starvation is a great motivator.

The Fields have enough of their own rewards anyway. They shouldn't be a way to get rich quick on top of that. The swift exp gain is already a lot.

[Flare]

I sort of agree with Jebediahs, actually -_-

[Scubacarrot]

Meh, that's not what is happening. If I wanted my character to be the strongest one, I would focus on that, and would probably have succeeded, and I would not focus on roleplaying. I'm sorry you feel that way, Jeb and Flare, but you've got the wrong impression. If you have a better suggestion to achieve what I think we should all want, a more balanced game, I'm eager to hear it.

[Scorpiox]

It's still good when everyone else is making 0 income.

This is very true. I know we've been bombarded with 'hey, I need two thousand gold each quest just to settle my debts', but I still can't see it. If you don't have the money and are so badly in debt that you have to have that money just to even yourself out - you're doing something wrong.

But the thing is - there is no other appeal for rogue-related classes if the gold-earning ability is nerfed. It will become so much more useless than other classes, that less people will want to be it than cleric

That is not true at all.

I can't believe people are falling for it again. This is yet another ploy of Scuba's to prevent anyone else from becoming as physically powerful as he is. He has made it apparent that he will never quest in the Fields because of its lack of story (reference) so he wants to prevent anyone else from benefiting from the place.

Now that he has a ridiculously high WP weapon, immunity to the elementals and enough consumables to support multiple 5-man parties across 15+ battles, he seeks to stop anyone else from catching him in power. Nerf gold gainers if you want to let him win...again. Scubacarrot needs to be stopped.

- Team Endgame

Uhm... okay?

[Scubacarrot]

And I just brought up the fields to illustrate the consequences of the proposed change, I don't have anything against the fields or people who like it, and I'm ambivalent about using the fields as a source of gold.

[Endgame]

- Team Endgame

I wouldn't say this is team-based, nor do I want it to be.

What does everyone think of my level cap idea? (Gold earnings from one attack cannot exceed level times (number))

[Kintobor]

You know what, I got a better idea, why don't we just nerf gold altogether and instead install a socialist system. That way no one has to worry about who gets more gold.

I don't mind the level cap, but it's just something else QM's potentially could screw up when calculating hits. Instead of whatever's implemented now, have the amount of gold one takes equal to their level. That's my two cents in the ring.

[joeshmoe554]

I think that might be a good idea, given the expenses for upgrading weapons increases as you upgrade it further. If some of the other expenses with improving a character (embedding gems and scrolls) also increased as the item became more powerful (example: 50 gold for the first gem, 75 gold for the second), then it would increase the gold gaining abilities of the character while the expense increases as well.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

This is very true. I know we've been bombarded with 'hey, I need two thousand gold each quest just to settle my debts', but I still can't see it. If you don't have the money and are so badly in debt that you have to have that money just to even yourself out - you're doing something wrong.

I know- that is just lazy economics. If you borrow more than you make, you will go broke. It's like working at McDonalds, buying a mansion, and then telling your boss you need $100,000 raise to pay your mortgage, and that if he doesn't pay up, you'll be nerfed.

Or, "If I don't make all this money, how am I going to pointlessly give away all this money to charity?"

KOTRT stand with Team Guts.

[Sandy]

What does everyone think of my level cap idea? (Gold earnings from one attack cannot exceed level times (number))

I resent the idea of having yet another thing to remember to calculate during battles. You as a QM should know what I'm talking about.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I resent the idea of having yet another thing to remember to calculate during battles. You as a QM should know what I'm talking about.

Agreed, humanoids only is simple.

[Sandy]

I can't believe people are falling for it again. This is yet another ploy of Scuba's to prevent anyone else from becoming as physically powerful as he is. He has made it apparent that he will never quest in the Fields because of its lack of story (reference) so he wants to prevent anyone else from benefiting from the place.

Now that he has a ridiculously high WP weapon, immunity to the elementals and enough consumables to support multiple 5-man parties across 15+ battles, he seeks to stop anyone else from catching him in power. Nerf gold gainers if you want to let him win...again. Scubacarrot needs to be stopped.

- Team Endgame

No, you need to stop with your personal vendetta. Scubacarrot made a perfectly relevant suggestion to an issue that's been bothering many people (remember, Scuba has been one of the people that have heavily benefitted from the current status quo). It is not alright for you to answer to that in a demeaning, confrontational manner like that.

If you have something constructive to add to the suggestion, please say so. Just saying "he's suggesting it for his own gain" is not constructive at all - especially since it's totally untrue.

I sort of want a Base Class Change if this nerf actually occurs.

Oh please, nobody is taking anything away from you. You'll just be earning less in the future (which is still more than most players).

Where's your sense of good will now?

[Kintobor]

I resent the idea of having yet another thing to remember to calculate during battles. You as a QM should know what I'm talking about.

Here's something that myself as a QM essentially demands as my one stipulation for whatever we as a collective whole (governed by Supreme Overlord Sandy of course) agree on when it comes to dealing with the rogue's money issue: it has to be easy to calculate.

Agreed, humanoids only is simple.

Humanoids aren't the only ones to carry gold though. Dragons, trolls, and other beasts may collect and hoard gold. Same goes for humanoids: not all people in Olegaia carry a fat coin purse with them. I'm not in favor of "only humanoids" since it limits what can and can't be stolen from.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Could we instead of Huamnoids, say in the Rogue's description that gold can only be stolen from Common Sense enemies? That way, it's not just humanoids, and includes dragons and trolls. We don't need to say anything more, just use common sense.

[Flare]

Could we instead of Huamnoids, say in the Rogue's description that gold can only be stolen from Common Sense enemies? That way, it's not just humanoids, and includes dragons and trolls. We don't need to say anything more, just use common sense.

Unfortunately common sense isn't always common. I might be a generous host that thinks that it makes sense for most of the enemies, but on the other hand someone else might be stingy and be extremely limiting (oh, this person doesn't walk around with his wallet; oh, this dragon gave all his gold to charity). So that doesn't really work.

Anyways - don't forget that many Shields revolve around gold making - what happens if the QM doesn't want for damage to be caused, so instead lets thr gold be stolen? Too much personal interference is a problem here.

My suggestion is, changing the amount of gold stolen to the following formula:

Instead of - X (amount of gold stolen currently)

There is - (X/6)*Y(random number between 1 and 6)

That way the earnings are varied! But it doesn't overnerf the class.

[Brickdoctor]

I like the Common Sense Enemies suggestion. But if we're trying to keep it simple, what happens when a player disagrees with a QM over whether or not the enemy should carry Gold, and what happens when a Raider gets Ravage or a Sorceror gets Magnetic Mojo, etc. You end up calculating more/taking more time on the decision because you not only have to calculate how much Gold the hero gets, you have to decide which enemies the hero can get Gold from. Calculating with a multiplier/cap based on Level (And I don't know whether I like this suggestion the best or not; just using it as an example.) is a new calculation that replaces/adjusts the old one, but it doesn't require two steps with one of the steps being subjective as the Common Sense Enemies proposal does.

[Flare]

No, you need to stop with your personal vendetta. Scubacarrot made a perfectly relevant suggestion to an issue that's been bothering many people (remember, Scuba has been one of the people that have heavily benefitted from the current status quo).

I'm sorry to speak up in a negative manner against you, but I want to respectfully point out that Scuba does seem to criticize many features and items, especially when it undermines his superiority. (if I have misunderstood your intentions, Scuba, than please accept my apologies.)

I don't want to continue with this, but I just want to make clear that Jebediah isn't the only person railing against this, although I am not wanting to be quick to point fingers and cause arguments, or being rude in return as Jebs has seemed to be.

I like the Common Sense Enemies suggestion.

But the problem with common sense is that it involves too much personal interference from the QM (read my post a couple ones up)

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I'm sorry to speak up in a negative manner against you, but I want to respectfully point out that Scuba does seem to criticize many features and items, especially when it undermines his superiority. (if I have misunderstood your intentions, Scuba, than please accept my apologies.)

I don't want to continue with this, but I just want to make clear that Jebediah isn't the only person railing against this, although I am not wanting to be quick to point fingers and cause arguments, or being rude in return as Jebs has seemed to be.

But the problem with common sense is that it involves too much personal interference from the QM (read my post a couple ones up)

Scuba is limiting his power in this.

Anyways, I think the Common Sense Clause would work, even if it came down to personal preference. The QM knows what is common sense and what should happen in his own quest. The last thing we need is a "one size fits all" rule that everyone has to follow.

[Endgame]

Call me crazy, but I actually really like doing the battle calculations. Numbers are my friend, and so is mental math (Actually, I've never once used pen and paper to do battle calculations!)

Suggestion 2: Gold can only be stolen from enemies with gold in their drops. (Wouldnot be subtracted from the drops, but if an enemy has 20 gold, I guess they could have 32 gold stashed somewhere secret on them, and only a rogue can find it?)