Heroica RPG Rules & FAQ

[swils]

Exactly. Let me point out that we're getting up in arms about something that affects about six people. For the rest of us? Nothing broken here, let's move on.

It's like I said before, I foresee a change coming (and judging by responses so far, there seems to be at least some call for it) and I want to influence a change in the right direction. The last time I came late to a discussion, gold income got backhanded because of a select few.

[Flipz]

To those complaining that Nostrums make it impossible to roll Specials: it's bad, but not NEARLY as bad as people are implying. Realistically, Special Damage should be as rare for the enemies as Shields are for Heroes--there's a little bit of overreliance on them as THE balancing factor, really. Passive Specials are a lot more versatile.

It's like I said before, I foresee a change coming (and judging by responses so far, there seems to be at least some call for it) and I want to influence a change in the right direction. The last time I came late to a discussion, gold income got backhanded because of a select few.

And this time consumables are going to get nerfed because of that select few. Last time, it was because the strategy earned money. This time, it's because they deal too much damage/make it hard for QMs to balance battles. Next, people will be complaining because they'll be buying tons of Potions/Health Cores and never needing to be healed. Fact of the matter is, some players of this game are filthy stinking rich, and can pretty much buy their way out of any situation. People can either try to bring them down to everyone else's level and end up nerfing everyone and everything (because it's too obviously unfair to strip those specific people of their wealth), or they can instead try buffing others UP to their level and have those wealthy people complain about not being given as much loot. Either way, someone's going to end up unhappy, unless we all recognize there's a gap and just segregate the "problem" characters into different Quests until things even out on their own. Trying to solve the problem with some kind of overarching solution is just going to shift the problem into a different arena. Let's just leave things alone.

[swils]

But... that requires people to change their attitudes/play style. The last time I suggested such a hands-off approach, well, refer to previous post.

[Palathadric]

e, but that's an example of what I'm talking about: You're balancing around buffs so that they're not buffs anymore, they're basically just the hero's stats. Buffs should make a fight easier, lowering the difficulty BBL. If the buff is then removed, difficulty goes back to baseline. The buff can be reapplied to go BBL again. If a negative effect is applied, the difficulty rises ABL, but that can be remedied to return to baseline. If, instead, an encounter is scaled to a party's maximum/buffed potential, then there is no way for them to drop the challenge BBL.

Actually, if we throw Nostrums out, Rogues could probably go back to their old money-making ways of gaining money from all enemies.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

As a QM, let me tell you how hard it is to roll a Special Damage when the hero is *Lucky.* It's extremely frustrating that nothing happens the entire battle. Heroes just kill every hing and my enemies can't respond. Also, Shields seem more common for some reason, even when not lucky. The whole categories and only a select few effects is too complicated for this game. How will we deal with the uber-powerful heroes that already have tons of effects with immunities and such into their weapon? I am still favoring pulling them from the marketplace.

[Rumble Strike]

I would be happy with the removal of Nostrums too. I think they are the key part of the consumable 'holy trinity'.

[Waterbrick Down]

As a QM, let me tell you how hard it is to roll a Special Damage when the hero is *Lucky.* It's extremely frustrating that nothing happens the entire battle. Heroes just kill every hing and my enemies can't respond. Also, Shields seem more common for some reason, even when not lucky. The whole categories and only a select few effects is too complicated for this game. How will we deal with the uber-powerful heroes that already have tons of effects with immunities and such into their weapon? I am still favoring pulling them from the marketplace.

Actually the statistical chance of rolling SPECIAL DAMAGE are only 1/21 while chances of rolling a SHIELD are 3/7 so lucky heroes are more likely to roll shields. I know the feeling of enemies not being able to respond, but unlike other RPG's, the mechanics of Heroica only result in responsive actions on the part of the monsters and thus have a more difficult time of implementing any strategy that the QM would like to see occur.

Edit: As an addendum, a lucky hero statistically has a 5/7 chance of dealing damage (Rangers have a 6/7 chance), and only 1/7 chance of taking damage via DAMAGE or SPECIAL DAMAGE.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[UsernameMDM]

I probably already know the answer, but I am going to ask anyway. Can any weapon/shield in the Mystic Knight's inventory be the recipient of Enchantment, or does that item have to be equipped to be Enchanted?

Edited October 7, 2013 by UsernameMDM

[Zepher]

I think a price hike would be fair, actually, and I complain about gold issues all the time.

I think it just needs to be Nostrums, and they just to be hiked up high enough that it will no longer be reasonable to buff EVERY single battle. I'd be happy if they cost 75 gold. That way, its still reasonable for non-Rogues to buy one for particularly hard battles, and Rogues can't buy up to much. It doesn't seem particularly high now either, BUT keep in mind that with lucky being more expensive Rogue's spendings will drop as well, so that they too will have to consider if they want to buff.

I think buffing is a huge part of the strategy of the game, and should not be removed (I know I said earlier that I'd be okay with it, but I've rethought that) - I just think it should have to remain a CHOICE as opposed to the only option. So 75, 80, 85 gold I think would be a good choice.

[Scubacarrot]

I probably already know the answer, but I am going to ask anyway. Can any weapon/shield in the Mystic Knight's inventory be the recipient of Enchantment, or does that item have to be equipped to be Enchanted?

I think this was actually asked before and the answer was that only the equipped weapon will be enchanted.

I don't feel very strongly either way about the consumables. I wouldn't mind them being removed (from the marketplace). They're a cool strategy to use, but if they wouldn't be there, perhaps battles wouldn't be as weird/unbalanced for different members of the party. Don't know. Something I'd disagree with though is a pricehike. A doubling in price would still leave them desirable for the rich heroes, and almost impossible/not cost efficient to get for those with less gold.

Perhaps something that might work is some sort of cooldown on consumables? (Like a toxicity debuff in the Witcher games, play them) That would either limit the amount people can take in one battle or that you'd have to wait a battle before you could use one again.

[joeshmoe554]

Actually the statistical chance of rolling SPECIAL DAMAGE are only 1/21 while chances of rolling a SHIELD are 3/7 so lucky heroes are more likely to roll shields. I know the feeling of enemies not being able to respond, but unlike other RPG's, the mechanics of Heroica only result in responsive actions on the part of the monsters and thus have a more difficult time of implementing any strategy that the QM would like to see occur.

Edit: As an addendum, a lucky hero statistically has a 5/7 chance of dealing damage (Rangers have a 6/7 chance), and only 1/7 chance of taking damage via DAMAGE or SPECIAL DAMAGE.

My math doesn't line up with your math.

Lucky Special Damage odds: 1/36

Lucky Shield Odds: 11/36

Lucky Attack: 3/4 (8/9 for rangers)

Lucky Damage: 1/9

To those complaining that Nostrums make it impossible to roll Specials: it's bad, but not NEARLY as bad as people are implying.

You have a point. A fully lucky party of three will likely see a special damage once every 12 rounds of battle, every 6 rounds if they are all hastened.

[Waterbrick Down]

My math doesn't line up with your math.

Lucky Special Damage odds: 1/36

Lucky Shield Odds: 11/36

Lucky Attack: 3/4 (8/9 for rangers)

Lucky Damage: 1/9

There are six unique results: SHIELD, CRITICAL HIT, etc. If two six-sided die are rolled there are a total of 21 unique combinations. In order to roll SPECIAL DAMAGE, a hero must roll two SPECIAL DAMAGE the chances of which are 1 unique combination of 21 different combinations thus 1/21. It's been a while since I took statistics, so I could be off.

[joeshmoe554]

Yes, however the odds of rolling Shield/Shield and Shield/Crit are different (1/36 odds of rolling two shields, 1/12 odds of rolling a shield and a crit) so while there are only 21 combinations not all 21 are evenly weighted.

[Waterbrick Down]

Yes, however the odds of rolling Shield/Shield and Shield/Crit are different (1/36 odds of rolling two shields, 1/12 odds of rolling a shield and a crit) so while there are only 21 combinations not all 21 are evenly weighted.

Knew something wasn't right. So there you go 1/36 chances of rolling special damage on lucky heroes, not very probable. Edited October 7, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[Scorpiox]

Thanks for explaining that, Joeshmoe. I felt that something was off - but I didn't want to risk posting about it lest I expose the gaping flaws in my '70s education.

But on the point:

It isn't consumables as such that are the issue: it's nostrums. If those at the least were removed from the marketplace, I think after time we would see a decline in their non-essential use. I don't think that hiking the prices will serve any useful purpose, other than to increase the already-large gap between rogue and non-rogue incomes.

[Flipz]

But... that requires people to change their attitudes/play style. The last time I suggested such a hands-off approach, well, refer to previous post.

People ought to reexamine their play styles from time to time--their QMing style as well. It's really easy to get stale, and really hard to keep reevaluating what's really important in the game.

But on the point:

It isn't consumables as such that are the issue: it's nostrums. If those at the least were removed from the marketplace, I think after time we would see a decline in their non-essential use. I don't think that hiking the prices will serve any useful purpose, other than to increase the already-large gap between rogue and non-rogue incomes.

People seem to like luck and chance in the game. Nostrums alter that luck, thus people become dissatisfied.

Just a note: if we do limit Nostrums (and I do think we should), we should also, as QMs, try to be more hesitant about putting Luck on our enemies. It's basically the same problem Lucky Heroes cause to enemies, except that enemies have no issue with supply, and with fewer Nostrums available as a countering strategy, it'll be even more devastating than it already is.

[Sandy]

I probably already know the answer, but I am going to ask anyway. Can any weapon/shield in the Mystic Knight's inventory be the recipient of Enchantment, or does that item have to be equipped to be Enchanted?

Like it says in the description, the Mystic Knight can enchant "either their weapon or their shield", which refers to the equipped equipment.

Something I'd disagree with though is a pricehike. A doubling in price would still leave them desirable for the rich heroes, and almost impossible/not cost efficient to get for those with less gold.

Perhaps something that might work is some sort of cooldown on consumables? (Like a toxicity debuff in the Witcher games, play them) That would either limit the amount people can take in one battle or that you'd have to wait a battle before you could use one again.

You have to realize that if the buff consumables are removed from the Marketplace, then they no longer have a set price. QMs can sell them in the quests for whatever price they want (which is kinda true even now, but at least now players can go "aw heck, I'll just wait until I get to the Marketplace to buy these").

I really don't like the idea of adding any sort of cooldown effect to anything. It just adds one more thing for the QMs to keep track off...

Just a note: if we do limit Nostrums (and I do think we should), we should also, as QMs, try to be more hesitant about putting Luck on our enemies. It's basically the same problem Lucky Heroes cause to enemies, except that enemies have no issue with supply, and with fewer Nostrums available as a countering strategy, it'll be even more devastating than it already is.

But that's why there's ways to remove positive buffs from enemies nowadays. Enemies can very rarely rebuff themselves.

[Palathadric]

Just a note: if we do limit Nostrums (and I do think we should), we should also, as QMs, try to be more hesitant about putting Luck on our enemies. It's basically the same problem Lucky Heroes cause to enemies, except that enemies have no issue with supply, and with fewer Nostrums available as a countering strategy, it'll be even more devastating than it already is.

Very much agree.

Although, for fun, instead of having a really powerful boss, you could have a weaker, but lucky boss so it's a different kind of challenge.

However, Neutralizers do need to be useful for something.

[Scubacarrot]

You have to realize that if the buff consumables are removed from the Marketplace, then they no longer have a set price. QMs can sell them in the quests for whatever price they want (which is kinda true even now, but at least now players can go "aw heck, I'll just wait until I get to the Marketplace to buy these").

I was responding to people's suggestions to increase the price instead of removing them from the marketplace.

[Tachyon]

Isn't the way to counter lucky heroes is just to put in more lucky enemies ?

Edited October 7, 2013 by Zakura

[Endgame]

Jinxing enemies, mimicking enemies, enemies that steal consumables, etc.

[Flipz]

Jinxing enemies, mimicking enemies, enemies that steal consumables, etc.

Can I just say how much I love mimicking enemies? Level ??? (level is equal to the attacker's) in particular. The scaling is just about perfect, in my book, especially for mixed-Level parties.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Alright, I'm in favor of just removing nostrums. The price hike I am still against. It makes it hard for normal classes to buy them, and rogue's still can, which gets them more money, and the problem isn't solved.

[Endgame]

Can I just say how much I love mimicking enemies? Level ??? (level is equal to the attacker's) in particular. The scaling is just about perfect, in my book, especially for mixed-Level parties.

I'm taslking about a postive effect copycat.

I also think weapon stealers have their merit too.

[Flare]

Alright, I'm in favor of just removing nostrums. The price hike I am still against. It makes it hard for normal classes to buy them, and rogue's still can, which gets them more money, and the problem isn't solved.

It doesn't make sense to be against price hikes but for removal from the marketplace. Price hike means that it will go up in price in... THE MARKETPLACE, but if you want it to be removed then how can it be hiked in price??

I think we should neither jack up the price, or remove them. Really. Its not a huge issue. I think those who are really pushing this are just nostrum-haters or something.

I'm taslking about a postive effect copycat.

OOH. LIKE.