Heroica RPG Rules & FAQ

[CMP]

A random idea just occurred to me that might balance assassins a little bit more.

How about instead of a 1/6 chance of outright assassinating targets, they have a 1/6 chance of inflicting the doomed effect? The three rounds until death makes it not such a complete gamebreaker, plus on rare occasion enemies can remedy themselves/eachother.

[JimBee]

No.

[CMP]

I would completely honestly have less enemies immune to doomed than to instant kill if this was the case. What's really annoying about assassins is that they can just wipe out an enemy force in the first round and almost completely turn the tables on any battle without even trying. The three round delay would make them a lot more manageable.

[Waterbrick Down]

I generally, have a few ideas on random mechanics that no doubt have lots of holes in them that I have not forseen but here they are:

• Backpack limit! I don't know, but seeing people with no visible backpack carrying 1000's of items just feels wrong to me. An inventory limit (Perhaps with an accompanying heroica bank for the excess items, that cannot be accessed on quests? I wouldn't mind helping with that...) might be good without complicating things too much whilst at the same time adding a level of strategy and planning
  
• Non-combat classes: I do realise that Heroica is a mercenary organisation but it'd be cool to roleplay a pack merchant or something. I dunno.
  
• A crafting system: Self-explanatory. It'd be awesome. Maybe contained within the class system i.e alchemists can mix potions out of battle using ingredients. Artisan could craft weapons. etc.
  

We gotta remember that one day.... One day. I will come up with a good idea.

Some interesting points, but I'm not sure how well they fit into the mechanics of the game like Pie mentioned.

-I'm with Scuba on the limited inventory idea, make it quest specific not a game wide rule. Plus, Bags of Holding.

-The way Heroica is setup each class needs to have combat mechanics. Without actually skill rolls, stats, checks, combat is really the only set of rules that make Heroica a proper "game" for the most part. Plus one would need to find a way to integrate such classes into current parties without them feeling useless during parts of the quest and vice versa for combat classes.

-While crafting systems are indeed interesting, a forum based RPG isn't really conducive for such actions. While video games, or real-time RPG's allow for time to work on and create such items, the way the game is structured, it would take too much time, plus fitting it into a quest as a permanent game mechanic could really bog things down.

[Flipz]

I would completely honestly have less enemies immune to doomed than to instant kill if this was the case. What's really annoying about assassins is that they can just wipe out an enemy force in the first round and almost completely turn the tables on any battle without even trying. The three round delay would make them a lot more manageable.

What if the 1/6 chance for Doomed comes into play only on targets immune to instant kill? If you really wanted an un-assasinatable enemy, you'd still be able to slap Immune to Doomed on it (and since so much stuff is "Immune to Negative Effects" anyway ), and it would help Grim Reaper be less useless in certain situations.

[CMP]

What if the 1/6 chance for Doomed comes into play only on targets immune to instant kill? If you really wanted an un-assasinatable enemy, you'd still be able to slap Immune to Doomed on it (and since so much stuff is "Immune to Negative Effects" anyway ), and it would help Grim Reaper be less useless in certain situations.

That's the opposite of my suggestion. That would make assassins even more powerful.

[Flipz]

That's the opposite of my suggestion. That would make assassins even more powerful.

Assassins don't need a nerf, they're quite frail and get stonewalled pretty much instantly (see Quest 93). QMs aren't going to stop throwing "Immune to Instant Kill" on everything, Doomed on those enemies makes sense--not to mention it still adds that layer of strategy you mentioned, you'd just keep Immune to Instant Kill on everything you already do, and then have the number of enemies you'd let not be immune to Doomed not be immune to Doomed.

[CMP]

Assassins don't need a nerf, they're quite frail and get stonewalled pretty much instantly (see Quest 93). QMs aren't going to stop throwing "Immune to Instant Kill" on everything, Doomed on those enemies makes sense--not to mention it still adds that layer of strategy you mentioned, you'd just keep Immune to Instant Kill on everything you already do, and then have the number of enemies you'd let not be immune to Doomed not be immune to Doomed.

I'm pretty sure enemies immune to instant kill couldn't die from Doomed anyway. It doesn't matter if assassins are frail or not because they're always hopped up on consumables and almost never take hits.

Edited April 22, 2014 by CallMePie

[Sandy]

It's apparently "Suggestions Day" in Heroicaville again. I want to start by saying thanks for your ideas and feedback, it's important even if no concrete changes would come out of it.

Some thoughts, perhaps attaching something very powerful like hastened on an enemy to something that can be destroyed (easy or hard, maybe horses with high health, or even more hit points), maybe to make it more temporary like Flipz suggests we put it on a countdown (as in lasts for 3 rounds or some other number), or having two + heroes attacking the same enemy to cancel it out.

Personally I'd go with three or four hero targets to cancel out a free hit from a hastened enemy, forcing several to target one enemy dedicates hero power on one enemy but still making it possible to avoid that free hit, possibly a reward if you get rid of all the other mooks and have a bunch of heroes attacking a hastened enemy the unavoidable free hit is no longer a problem but still not making it obsolete if you just have two heroes target the enemy (or a single hastened hero, that's too easy) thoughts?

Hastening has always been a tough effect to take into consideration for battles, and yes, hastened enemies are much tougher than non-hastened. However, there's the Neutralizer available at the Marketplace that can "clean the slate" if the positive effects get too overwhelming, and Tiger Balm works wonders too on an enemy that can buff itself.

But I actually like the idea that sometimes heroes have no choice but to take some damage. It makes healing and protection that much more important (makes us Clerics sweat for a change).

I've already suggested limiting the positive effects to last 10 rounds, which would obviously help with this problem as well, but that was shot down by the public. I remain in the opinion that if heroes get buffs that last the entire battle, the enemies should get them too.

• Backpack limit! I don't know, but seeing people with no visible backpack carrying 1000's of items just feels wrong to me. An inventory limit (Perhaps with an accompanying heroica bank for the excess items, that cannot be accessed on quests? I wouldn't mind helping with that...) might be good without complicating things too much whilst at the same time adding a level of strategy and planning
  
• Non-combat classes: I do realise that Heroica is a mercenary organisation but it'd be cool to roleplay a pack merchant or something. I dunno.
  
• A crafting system: Self-explanatory. It'd be awesome. Maybe contained within the class system i.e alchemists can mix potions out of battle using ingredients. Artisan could craft weapons. etc.
  

1. A backpack limit sounds like a helluva lot of work for what's basically an issue of making the game more realistic. There's only so far you can go in the name of immersion and sense of reality, in the end you just have to accept that this is a game and a virtual concept, with it's own laws of physics and packing.

Besides, who is the person willing to give up their life to manage the thousands of items we drag around with our characters? Everyone just has to keep check of their own stuff in the future as well.

2. So you want to play as an NPC? Isn't that what Quest Mastering is all about?

3. There's already a crafting system (albeit a very bare-bones one) in the Marketplace. It can be elaborated some day, but it's not something I'm personally willing to spend time thinking right now.

A random idea just occurred to me that might balance assassins a little bit more.

How about instead of a 1/6 chance of outright assassinating targets, they have a 1/6 chance of inflicting the doomed effect? The three rounds until death makes it not such a complete gamebreaker, plus on rare occasion enemies can remedy themselves/eachother.

Hmm, wouldn't that just postpone the inevitable, making the battles drag longer? Do you really want to see more enemies capable of remedying themselves?

[Endgame]

and almost never take hits.

It's also because we're largely cautious, murderous little heroes.

Also: I would honestly not mind if one or two more enemies per battle wer eimmune to insta-kill. I prefer the gold gaining aspect.

Also, I will always prefer immune to sudden death to immune to all effects, even though I can't inflict them myself.

[Flipz]

I'm pretty sure enemies immune to instant kill couldn't die from Doomed anyway. It doesn't matter if assassins are frail or not because they're always hopped up on consumables and almost never take hits.

If Heroes immune to instant kill can still die from Doomed (Docken), then enemies can as well.

Fair enough, it just seems REALLY easy to inadvertently completely stonewall an Assassin with Immune to Instant Kill and zero Gold drops, as we've already seen several times.

Hastening has always been a tough effect to take into consideration for battles, and yes, hastened enemies are much tougher than non-hastened. However, there's the Neutralizer available at the Marketplace that can "clean the slate" if the positive effects get too overwhelming, and Tiger Balm works wonders too on an enemy that can buff itself.

But I actually like the idea that sometimes heroes have no choice but to take some damage. It makes healing and protection that much more important (makes us Clerics sweat for a change).

The problem comes when those positive effect'd enemies are essentially "Immune to Neutralizers" because of the way their positive effects are applied (and in this case, the sheer number of them and the removal of the Back Row).

Edited April 22, 2014 by Flipz

[CMP]

Fair enough, it just seems REALLY easy to inadvertently completely stonewall an Assassin with Immune to Instant Kill and zero Gold drops, as we've already seen several times.

Yeah, but otherwise it's just too easy for them to farm kills and gold without even trying. That's why I'm suggesting doomed to keep them from immediately wiping out half the enemies at once. I doubt we'd see as many enemies immune to doomed as we do immune to instant kill now if this change was implemented.

Hmm, wouldn't that just postpone the inevitable, making the battles drag longer? Do you really want to see more enemies capable of remedying themselves?

Not really. If an enemy has enough health to make a battle be annoyingly long, they're probably immune to instant kill anyway. I just would like more enemies live to do something even once during a battle.

[Endgame]

As one of the more formidable assasins in the game: As long as each battle has one enemy that can be insta-killed, and the rest have some sort of gold drop, I'm fine with immunity to insta-kill.

Complete stonewalling is pretty frustrating, though.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Endgame

[Kintobor]

I'll throw my two cents in: I try to avoid immunities, or if there is an immunity, it's to very specific things. Part of the fun of the game is being able to use your classes abilities to occasionally make enemies explode. Where's the fun when everything nowadays is immune to everything? I'm looking at Aureole in particular because there really is no real way to do that, it's immune to instakill, immune to effects, it has no elemental weakness, it would be fine if it wasn't so high levelled and had such a stupidly ridiculous special. I don't mind if an enemy's tough, but make it beatable. There's no fun in waiting to get KO'd.

It seems Sandy's being understandable, so I at least thank him for that. It's an oversight, like many things in this game. I've made blunders before (Onslaught in 94 ), and in the end I want the party to at least reach the end of a quest. So if it seems like I'm being critical, it's because I want this game to be the best it can.

[Sandy]

Continued from the General Discussion, since this is about a rule:

The incident was in Quest 77, when Lord Duvors said he was going to throw a Smoke Bomb as the party was about to win a battle. I don't think any ruling ever came from Sandy other than that "If you do that, you'll probably never get chosen for a quest again."

Ah, thank you for reminding me! I was scratching my head as to where this issue would have risen up in the first place, but of course it was Throlar's crazy antics.

Honestly, I didn't even consider at that time that "hey, even if someone throws a Smoke Bomb, not everyone has to flee". On the other hand it's true that allowing it would make the item just a "Flee" with a gold cost.

What do you guys think, should it be elaborated on the FAQ that a Smoke Bomb can be used only to partially flee? I already allowed it in my current quest, anyway.

[Endgame]

I think it should be a full party flee, no matter what. Either you pack your bags and run, or you stay til' the bitter end; fight or flight and all that.

[Pyrovisionary]

2. So you want to play as an NPC? Isn't that what Quest Mastering is all about?

Believe me, I have around 1000 quest ideas. But I'm away from my bricks so....

Edited April 22, 2014 by Pyrovisionary

[Kintobor]

Let it slide this time, since we need it , but I like that it's a whole party flee, or a no party flee. I think I've only used Flee once, and that was in conjuncture with a Smoke bomb, so...

[Pyrovisionary]

Flee only works in a part full of rogues. Unless..... Insta side-quest!

[Kintobor]

Believe me, I have around 1000 quest ideas. But I'm away from my bricks so....

You can always ask one of us to help. My brick collection doesn't have everything, but I got quite a bit of stuff.

[Endgame]

Believe me, I have around 1000 quest ideas. But I'm away from my bricks so....

Give LDD a shot.

[Kintobor]

Give LDD a shot.

I did. Still not going to come between me and my brick collection, but still a neat and cool program.

I have Proggs, Syndicate members, and infinite Perfect Regrets at my fingertips!

[Endgame]

Pfft, if 79, 81, and 99 aren't telling you anything, perfect Regret is sooo last year.

[Pyrovisionary]

Give LDD a shot.

I did, but I got angry at it and it's backgrounds. Basically, too much editing and messing around in POVray.

[Endgame]

Since healing prevents free hits, that means items should too, right?