Silver City Mafia: Day 4 - Dances With Wolves

[Mencot]

Here's why I've thought poisoner was a Serial Killer role. This morning, the Town's role cop contacted me and said they found out that Tony and Carletta were Vanilla. Somebody was investigated as a Killer, and they just so happen to be dead. Who was the killer? Kimberly. This tells me that the poisoner is the serial killer. I'm not 100% on Kenneth, but he seems to fit the most. So, I wasn't "selling out our vig to save my skin", I was trying to avoid selling out our role cop.

Okay (not ok-ey) didn´t see this post, this was new info. If the rolecop is so trusting that he/she could Pm you that should make you town. Ofcourse if the towncop now turns up dead then we know you ain´t so towncop who ever you are, PM someone else you trust also. But in my eyes for now Tristan is more likely Town.

[TheBoyWonder]

I see two possibilities. Kenneth is the Vig and Tristan is scum, or Kenneth is the SK and Tristan is town.

I'm not sure really what one is right, and there is also a possibility the role cop was sabotaged in some way. I honestly don't feel comfortable voting Kenneth, so I shall consider my vote further.

[Mencot]

I see two possibilities. Kenneth is the Vig and Tristan is scum, or Kenneth is the SK and Tristan is town.

I'm not sure really what one is right, and there is also a possibility the role cop was sabotaged in some way. I honestly don't feel comfortable voting Kenneth, so I shall consider my vote further.

True, and as I said the Rolecop should (or if he/she has) PM someone else whom he/she trusts with the results also.

And this is also there is an living town rolecop that he/she isn´t scum faking it

So if there is someone else than Tristan that the rolecop has trusted in and also told the same result, come forward an acknowledge Tristans saying.

[Scubacarrot]

Hold up. Do you really think there is a town role cop, a town investigator a neutral serial killer and a town vigilante in play? A vigilante who we have not seen kill by the way.

Either Perry, Tristan, or Tristan's role cop is likely lying. A town role cop and a town investigator is impossible.

[Mencot]

This was what I meant, someone other should also come forward with knowledge. So that we can find out who is lying!

There is also an radical way to find out if the rolecop and/orTristan is lying. But it maybe isn´t the best because we are down so many loyal town.

The claim was Tony and Carletta was searched and their role was Vanilla town.

We lynch one of the today, because if they are Vanilla they don´t have any PR and then tomorrow morning we will find out the true role about them, if they turn up town, the Role-cop/Tristan tells the truth but if they turn up scum, we know one of them is lying.

Because if one of them turns scum, the other is most likely scum and this has been a way to turn his scum buddies seem town, clearing them this way.

I know this is radical but it is a way to go.

[MagPiesRUs]

This was what I meant, someone other should also come forward with knowledge. So that we can find out who is lying!

There is also an radical way to find out if the rolecop and/orTristan is lying. But it maybe isn´t the best because we are down so many loyal town.

The claim was Tony and Carletta was searched and their role was Vanilla town.

We lynch one of the today, because if they are Vanilla they don´t have any PR and then tomorrow morning we will find out the true role about them, if they turn up town, the Role-cop/Tristan tells the truth but if they turn up scum, we know one of them is lying.

Because if one of them turns scum, the other is most likely scum and this has been a way to turn his scum buddies seem town, clearing them this way.

I know this is radical but it is a way to go.

You're right, that certainly is radical. And ultimately, it doesn't make much sense. A "vanilla" result can apply to both town and scum - the role cop has in no way confirmed mine or Carletta's allegiance. It just means neither of us have a night action. There's also the possibility that the role cop is scum but is telling the truth about their results anyway. Completely fabricating results is not something the scum would attempt.

[Mencot]

You're right, that certainly is radical. And ultimately, it doesn't make much sense. A "vanilla" result can apply to both town and scum - the role cop has in no way confirmed mine or Carletta's allegiance. It just means neither of us have a night action. There's also the possibility that the role cop is scum but is telling the truth about their results anyway. Completely fabricating results is not something the scum would attempt.

Oh, Okay (not ok-ey). Damn, I thought I came up with a good idea

Wait a minute, "A "vanilla" result can apply to both town and scum - the role cop has in no way confirmed mine or Carletta's allegiance. It just means neither of us have a night action",

So you could be scum then?

[TrumpetKing]

Theoretically, yes, the vanilla result means that Tony could be scum. However, I think he's had a rather townie behavior so far.

After seeing Michael gain some focus, I'm actually getting a slight town-read on him. However, I don't know where to place my vote as we don't know for sure that Kenneth is the Poisoner. I'd like Boris to answer a question: How could a role cop have been sabotaged? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[MagPiesRUs]

Oh, Okay (not ok-ey). Damn, I thought I came up with a good idea

Wait a minute, "A "vanilla" result can apply to both town and scum - the role cop has in no way confirmed mine or Carletta's allegiance. It just means neither of us have a night action",

So you could be scum then?

Theoretically yes, Carletta or I could still be scum without night actions. This page may be helpful.

[Purpearljellyblob]

You are mistaken. I was on my glitchy phone all day and couldn't respond to the main topic, forcing me to resort to PM. I sent messages to Perry (Peanuts), Kenneth (fhomess), and Prudence (PJBob) in order to address their concerns...

I just came in and saw your pm and I am glad that you have done the right thing by defending yourself in public.

Michael,

You can vote for me if you want to, but that wouldn´t help town any! it is Clay, he just bugs me out and it isn´t his comments against me it is something else in his behaviour, I can´t just put my finger on it what it is. Have to study is comments...

So you had some heat on you at the start of the day, and you attempted to redirect the suspicion to Clay by saying there is something suspicious about Clay's behaviour and you will be back with some justification.

´Bout Clay, still bugs me out but rereading some of his comments I find that he is more helmpful than scummy, especially today.

Now you are back, I only see one sentence about Clay, which doesn't mean anything. So is Clay still suspicious to you? How is Clay still bugging you?

I would actually like to hear what Kenneth has to say in response to the discussion that is happening here.

[Mencot]

Now you are back, I only see one sentence about Clay, which doesn't mean anything. So is Clay still suspicious to you? How is Clay still bugging you?

"´Bout Clay, still bugs me out but rereading some of his comments I find that he is more helmpful than scummy, especially today."

Lets rephrase, his attitude how he brings out stuff bugs me but I didn´t find any strange that i did remember, i only found more info on that he most likely is town. But still bugged out by how he brings out things but I guess it is his style then!

As I guess my style bugs a lot of people here out but that doesn´t mean I am scum, you have to judge me by something else and so I judge Clay by his action.

Theoretically yes, Carletta or I could still be scum without night actions. This page may be helpful.

Thanks, I have actually been reading that journal alot from time to time, but the best way to learn is to play it out in experience. But background knowledge is a good.

I'd like Boris to answer a question: How could a role cop have been sabotaged? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Maybe he meant that someone lied but phrased it wrong

But lets Boris answer this himself!

[Mencot]

Gonna be busy again, almost for the rest of this day.

Do not really have a vote candidate yet, but will be back to vote before the end.

[LegoDad]

I guess it depends on what God wants, but role cop should be able to tell allegiance as well as role. I had that job in another town and was able to do that.

This story has my brain turning in circles, and don't really know what to make of it. On the surface, it looks great, we may have nabbed the SK, but what if the whole story is made up? It just looks like a grand scheme to me, since there is very little anyone seems to be able to do to disprove it. At the same time, being unable to disprove it could mean that it is, in fact, true. I'm going to re-read(again) and see if anything comes of it since I need to get my vote in here at some point. Still working at the store, though.

[Piratedave84]

I guess it depends on what God wants, but role cop should be able to tell allegiance as well as role. I had that job in another town and was able to do that.

This story has my brain turning in circles, and don't really know what to make of it. On the surface, it looks great, we may have nabbed the SK, but what if the whole story is made up? It just looks like a grand scheme to me, since there is very little anyone seems to be able to do to disprove it. At the same time, being unable to disprove it could mean that it is, in fact, true. I'm going to re-read(again) and see if anything comes of it since I need to get my vote in here at some point. Still working at the store, though.

I'm also second-guesing my vote to some extent; I want to nab the SK but what if this is all a ploy. I had come to the conclusion/suspicion that Kenneth was the SK and Tristan corroborated or at least reinforced my suspicions but it seems we have no investigator to prove/disprove Tristan's allegations.

I guess I will leave my vote where it; Occam's razor

[mostlytechnic]

I guess it depends on what God wants, but role cop should be able to tell allegiance as well as role. I had that job in another town and was able to do that.

According to the journal that Tony linked to, role cops normally do NOT tell allegiance. So they don't distinguish between a SK and Vig for example - both just appear as killers. Or scum vs town vanilla. Etc. Sometimes a rolecop can tell everything, but that's not the standard version. Don't know what the Captain here is using though... or even if we really HAVE a role cop.

For the record, Tristan talked to me in private as well about this early today. We discussed what we think of the sheriff (SK vs vig as well as if he's involved wtih the poison at ALL) or if it's just a coincidence. However, I did not know about the role cop info, kimberly, etc till it was shared in thread. I am the one he referred to as asking Ken directly about it in PM - the sheriff's response was that he has nothing to do with the poison and why should he claim anything to me. I can't really read anything into that since it's probably the right answer no matter what his role and allegiance is when asked out of the blue by me.

As for me, I think Patrick could be exactly right that the day kill was a one-time exception due to getting a new sheriff and if that's the case, then what Tristan has said could be exactly true. That'd make him town, Kenneth a SK, and we'd finally have some good reliable info on who to lynch.

[mostlytechnic]

Probably is becasue he hasn´t PM anyone, one person I trust that is almost 100 % is Molly and with she the ones with PR could PM.

Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence (and you're right, I AM 100% town) but still, this seems overconfident given that we have so little to go on.

Hold up. Do you really think there is a town role cop, a town investigator a neutral serial killer and a town vigilante in play? A vigilante who we have not seen kill by the way.

Either Perry, Tristan, or Tristan's role cop is likely lying. A town role cop and a town investigator is impossible.

Why would a role cop and investigator be impossible to have? They normally check different things (role vs allegiance) so it sounds like a logical combo to have to me. I know other towns have had just one or the other (or both combined into one person) but I see no reason we couldn't have both (and if I was running the town, I'd probably give both since they seem so complimentary to each other)

As for no vig kill - the fact that we haven't seen any (other than the possibility that the poison is the vig in action) seems to support the possibility that Kimberly was the vig to me. She was killed night 2 - so perhaps didn't kill night 1 since it's such a crapshoot and odds are you're killing a townie, and then either chose again not to kill night 2, was blocked, the victim was protected, or this town's rules meant that getting killed off meant the vig couldn't kill.

After all that talking, I almost forgot to actually DO what I meant to. So:

Unvote: Boris Wheeler (TheBoyWonder)

Vote: Kenneth Emanuel (fhomess)

Because I think the info Tristan has shared fits the situation well enough to be trustworthy. I think Kenny there is poisoning people and it needs to stop. I think his initial scum-hunting at the beginning of his time with us was genuine, since if he is indeed a Serial, he needs some scum to get killed or he'll lose when the scum win. SKs generally need both sides getting killed off in balance and so far we do NOT have that. In fact, that's the one thing that made me hesitate with my vote - if he IS the SK, he'd be needing for sure to poison some scum next to keep the game going.

[Tamamono]

Vote Count

Michael Thompson (Mencot) - 4 (Trumpetking, Adam, CallMePie, Dannylonglegs)

Damien Long (Dannylonglegs) - 3 (penalty, penalty, penalty)

Tristan Kingsley (Trumpetking) - 2 (Scubacarrot, Capt. Redblade)

Kenneth Emanuel (fhomess) - 2 (PirateDave84, mostlytechnic)

Abigail Nelson (Adam) - 1 (fhomess)

Boris Wheeler (TheBoyWonder) - 1 (Kadabra)

No Vote - 6 (TinyPiesRUs, TheBoyWonder, LegoDad, Purpearljellyblob, Mencot, Peanuts)

Only 9 hours remain until Sunset, votes up!!

[Peanuts]

I'm on the fence here. On the one hand, everything Tristan said may be an elaborated lie, but I'm inclined to believe he is actually telling the truth. On the other hand, while I don't think a vigilante, a role cop and an investigator are too much, I'm fairly sure the scum have a role cop as well (otherwise, why murder Jessica?). Could it be that the role cop who claimed to him actually is the scum role cop?

After all, the posioner, no matter what side they are on or who they really are, killed two people who were primary suspects, acting as a de facto vigilante. I'm not sure I want them to go right now.

I'd like to ask Kenneth to confirm or deny his role, and if he is an serial killer, if he can win with the town and if he is willing to do so.

[TheBoyWonder]

By sabotaged I meant that the Role Cop was lying and is scum, just wasn't sure how to word it. I'm also unsure of who to vote. If Kenneth Is the Poisoner, he has been very helpful to the town, so as of yet I don't feel comfortable.

Wait a minute, surely if a Vigilante was investigated, their role would come up as Vigilante? I'm sorry, but in what universe would a vigilante (Which is a role) come up as Killer? And it just so happens, Jessica, a potential vigilante gets killed not long after being role copped, by the scum? It all points towards this role cop lying from my opinion.

[fhomess]

There are several problems with Tristan's argument, aside from it not being true. I will publicly state that I have no killing action. I am town, not neutral, but I am not the vig, if we even have one. If I was the SK prior to my personality crisis, I would expect that there would've been additional poisonings. Additionally, it doesn't make any sense for any player to be given an extra chance at a kill simply due to personality crises. There is something else going on with the poisoner that allows them to kill at various times. I don't know what it is, but I am not involved in it in any way.

Furthermore, if Tristan had been in contact with a role cop who got a killer result on Kimberly and Kimberly is now dead, and this is the reason Tristan believes me to be the poisoner... then I don't understand why Tristan didn't vote for me earlier or why I'm not higher up on his scum list. Town needs to eradicate all threats, not just the Red Coyotes, so Tristan should've voted me instead of voting for a relatively uncertain scum read like Michael.

I think it's irrefutable that the scum have a role cop given that we know Jessica was killed and was the investigator. Whether or not the role cop that Tristan is talking to is the scum role cop or not, again I have no idea. I do firmly believe that scum will try to use this suspicion to off a useful member of the town.

Now, does all of this make Tristan scum? Again, I'm not really sure. Tristan's caution in presenting this case could be scum hoping to fall in line with town's thinking. This would be particularly true if it were a scum role cop buddy of his that he was in cahoots with on this theory. It could also be that Tristan really is a concerned townie trying to do the right thing and being cautious. At the moment, I lean towards the latter because of earlier conversations I've had with Tristan. Let me ask this... among those who knew of the suspicion on me as a potential SK or vig candidate, but didn't know of the role cop result on Kimberly, were any of them pushing to paint me as the vig? Those would be the people I'd be most suspicious of if you are among those in the know on this.\

Who else knew about the role cop?

For now, I will:

Unvote: Abigail Nelson (Adam)

Vote: Michael Thompson (Mencot)

Abigail has done enough for me to remove my vote, and Michael I still find suspicious for the reasons stated earlier today and yesterday.

[mostlytechnic]

Vigilante comes up as killer in a role cop since the role cop (generally) doesn't get to know the allegiance. So vanilla would mean either vanilla town or scum. Killer would be vig, SK, or the scum's killer. Protector could be either side. Etc. If the role cop's result said "vig" that would obviously mean town.

And yes, it's very possible that the scum have a role cop. That'd help explain how we've lost 2 PRs already. (I'm assuming we really have lost the vig and investigator since there's never been any counterclaim)

[Peanuts]

There's something I'd like to remind everyone of as well:

Jessica thought that her spilling her wine on the second day was because some had tried to poison her and failed. From our private conversation I know that she even suspected there was a posioner before we saw Zachary killed; if someone actually tried to posion her, that would kind of render Tristan's theory that Kenneth has to be the posioner moot.

I just think that's something that should be taken into consideration.

[TheBoyWonder]

In my previous post I meant Kimberly, not Jessica.

[mostlytechnic]

Kenneth, thanks for your response. I want to believe you, but...

1. I can't think of any other explaination for the timing of the poisonings yet

2. Perry's reminder about Jessica's poison theory has one big hole. We've been specifically warned that the images have no hints.

3. I only talked to Tristan in private, not anyone else he was talking to. We discussed whether you [Kenneth] were SK, vig, or neither. He didn't push any of them in particular and I didn't either, expecially since I didn't know about Kimberly supposedly being the vig. We mostly discussed whether to bring it up to the whole town yet or not. The obvious fear was losing the vig if that's what you were. He started talking to me about the sheriff right after day 4 started.

4. Note that Tristan said "this morning" he was contacted by the role cop. I'm assuming he meant in his real world, not "early on day 4". If I'm right about that, then he and I were discussing it before he knew about the role cop claim and that would explain why he didn't assume SK until later today.

[fhomess]

Kenneth, thanks for your response. I want to believe you, but...

1. I can't think of any other explaination for the timing of the poisonings yet

This is a perfectly reasonable reason to vote for me. All I can say is that something else is going on. If the poisoner is the SK, then they're rather fortunate that they've been blocked or thwarted by protection until Day 3. How the poisoner managed to kill on Day 3 and Night 3 is something I don't have an explanation for at this point. There is some other role involved or some role modifier that allowed this.

2. Perry's reminder about Jessica's poison theory has one big hole. We've been specifically warned that the images have no hints.

I agree that spilled win would be an odd clue and one I think a lot of us speculated about but know that there shouldn't be clues in the pitctures. All the kills happen by the same method, so there are some clues in the pictures.

3. I only talked to Tristan in private, not anyone else he was talking to. We discussed whether you [Kenneth] were SK, vig, or neither. He didn't push any of them in particular and I didn't either, expecially since I didn't know about Kimberly supposedly being the vig. We mostly discussed whether to bring it up to the whole town yet or not. The obvious fear was losing the vig if that's what you were. He started talking to me about the sheriff right after day 4 started.

As I stated above, I lean town on Tristan, but concede that it's possible he's not. I'm actually more interested in the role cop and their results claims. It seems to me there's something fishy going on with who was role copped and who knew about it.

4. Note that Tristan said "this morning" he was contacted by the role cop. I'm assuming he meant in his real world, not "early on day 4". If I'm right about that, then he and I were discussing it before he knew about the role cop claim and that would explain why he didn't assume SK until later today.

I assumed he meant at the start of Day 4. I don't really know why the role cop would've claimed to him. As far as we know, he's not an investigator and wasn't investigated by Jessica. In addition, by his own post, Tony, Carletta, and Kimberly were the role cop's targets on the first three nights. That leaves no room for him to be role copped with a role that is almost assuredly town. What night was Kimberly role copped?