Will Technic flagship models keep getting bigger?

[zux]

Agree with allanp's post (started to imagine all the goodness ), except for the price, set shouldn't cost "over 9000". However I'd buy this the first day it would be available.

One thing I'm against is branding, it shouldn't be Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani or any other real car copy, just a Super Car.

[N-4K0]

Any set should be made to allow full functionality of whatever functions it has, even if it means going away from replicate a certain brand and model (like the Unimog U400) to do so.

Anyone who buys the set, can modify or rebuild it into replicating any brand and model anyway.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Error404

[Alternator]

As a bit of an aside I'm under the impression that Lego attempt to keep the part count down/manageable in their designs, so the idea of them purposely attempting to make ever bigger sets doesn't fully mesh.

They may choose a subject (like the UniMog) that they know is going to come out big - but for this crane to be the highest piece count is a little odd given it isn't a new subject for them beyond the fully motorized riggers (it doesn't actually look bigger than the previous flagship crane).

[N-4K0]

They've probably focused on improving the functions. And there is a 5th axle and 2 more tires, that makes for some extra parts too.

[rocklego]

I don't think size of a set matters.

What matters is that we hope TLG will focus on diversity of functionality , creativity and playability of a technic set.

Most important thing is we as Lego fans get inspired by TLG ,then we will be able to build a new different MOCs.

[MrNumbskull13]

"Functionality, Authenticity and Challenging Building" is the Technic motto.

[EyesOnly]

While i'm totally getting the crane, from an engineering perspective i'm almost more interested in the tow truck. It has so many functions yet not that many pieces. < 2000 parts models is what i would prefer. With motors they can cost a lot anyway. Big models are cool but as someone trying and failing at building big mocs i know just what limitations the material poses as the unimog proves.

Speaking of cars i'd rather see a regular car instead of yet another super car. It can still have the parts suggested by allanp but not be a super car.

[The Ghost Racer]

I wish it were produced something new, great, but again, a querry dumper for example: they have produced many sets based on vehicles used in the construction industry, such as bulldozers, mobile cranes and excavators, but they are similar to each other in some respects, even though each of them involves some little innovation. I do not think that has ever been produced a big quarry dumper in lego technic, so I think it would be something beautiful, to enrich our personal collection of vehicles from cantire construction.

A quarry duper rc would be a wonderful thing in my opinion, so as to use it with the 8043 excavator

Edited July 14, 2013 by The Ghost Racer

[1974]

Not possible to build it in the scale of the 8043 as no such huge wheels exists. Just look at that man next to that tire

Also, they're mostly electrically driven. Those motors are powered by a generator which again is powered by an allmighty combustion engine. Not really doable with Technic parts

It would also require a gazzillin panels ..

[MrNumbskull13]

Not possible to build it in the scale of the 8043 as no such huge wheels exists. Just look at that man next to that tire

Also, they're mostly electrically driven. Those motors are powered by a generator which again is powered by an allmighty combustion engine. Not really doable with Technic parts

It would also require a gazzillin panels ..

You could build it to mini-figure scale! Sariel did it with unimog tyres and it looks great!

[1974]

I could, but this is a thread about TLG's flagships and they're not minifig scale

[bricky300]

I belive sets shouldn't be to big but instead being more complex. Take 8258 as an example. It is great in my eyes for childs. They learn how gears work together, how outtriggers work and much more. And we should not forget that Lego's main group is childs.

[The Ghost Racer]

Not possible to build it in the scale of the 8043 as no such huge wheels exists. Just look at that man next to that tire

Also, they're mostly electrically driven. Those motors are powered by a generator which again is powered by an allmighty combustion engine. Not really doable with Technic parts

It would also require a gazzillin panels ..

Yes but, in certain cases the realism is not everything..If you want to achieve something realistic, bah, a motor for each wheel like in a real quarry dump trucks and a fake engine instead of the real diesel engine.

I belive sets shouldn't be to big but instead being more complex. Take 8258 as an example. It is great in my eyes for childs. They learn how gears work together, how outtriggers work and much more. And we should not forget that Lego's main group is childs.

You're right, we can not expect everything since the lego are intended largely for children, however, could still make a quarry dump truck on a smaller scale, and if that was not enough, they could make new tires. Children are attracted to set with a lot of features, they do not care much if there are new pieces or not, they care about fun.

[bricky300]

You're right, we can not expect everything since the lego are intended largely for children, however, could still make a quarry dump truck on a smaller scale, and if that was not enough, they could make new tires. Children are attracted to set with a lot of features, they do not care much if there are new pieces or not, they care about fun.

Well they have done a huge quarry truck, but in city theme. I don´t think they will ever release one in the technik section. If they release one then it would certainly not be a flagship I think. It instead would be a mini model and would be very much like the city one...

Edited July 15, 2013 by bricky300

[merman]

Something tells me we get a new studless Space Shuttle soon... With all the white beams and panels showing up lately

[Tubby]

That would be amazing, and as NASA canned the shuttle program it would make an awesome tribute. I keep meaning to rebuild my 8480 but never get round to it.

[Blakbird]

Will flagships keep getting bigger? I hope so. I am still waiting for something the size of a UCS Star Destroyer with functions to match.

[aqaz]

On one hand, I really like sets that just have all that is needed for the functions yet are very realistic, e.g. 8294 excavator; cheap, and you get the parts to re-use in MOC's.

However,

On the other hand, I agree entirely with 'The Ghost Racer', A dumper in this scale would be superb.....

Surely, these would be the wheels that all you 4x4 off-roader MOCers dream of at night, with 170mm tyres.

1974: Surely, electric drive at each wheel is eminently 'doable' with technic parts, indeed, I can't think of anything more suited to PF.

[Erik Leppen]

1974: Surely, electric drive at each wheel is eminently 'doable' with technic parts, indeed, I can't think of anything more suited to PF.

The problem is not that it wouldn't be doable.

The problem is that it wouldn't be very interesting.

---

Anyhow. A lot will depend on the sales of the mobile crane. If they go though the roof, that would be a message for TLC that large Technic models are in demand. If they stagnate, that would be a message for TLC that the size limit for Technic models has been reached.

So, vote with your wallet :) Want big models? Buy 42009. Want smaller models? Don't buy 42009 :)

[aqaz]

Eric Leppen: Clearly you missed the syntax, this was a direct answer to 1974 who wrote:

Also, they're mostly electrically driven. Those motors are powered by a generator which again is powered by an allmighty combustion engine. Not really doable with Technic parts

I do not agree with you that it would not be interesting. That is your opinion, clearly, not everyone thinks alike.

[EyesOnly]

Let's see here. 4 PF-motors and probably a servo in an already large model. Even assuming that the receiver could handle it, which i doubt, the price would make the crane look cheap. No any really large set would have to be low on electric components or very few will buy it. A non-rc mining dumper in flagship scale would be really neat though. If only because of the wheels and the probably large amount of panels used to build the dump bed.

[allanp]

I think such a dump truck would be very dull, unless they gave us longer pneumatics to tip the bed obviously .

[Alasdair Ryan]

I think such a dump truck would be very dull, unless they gave us longer pneumatics to tip the bed obviously .

Or longer La's.....

[aqaz]

Bigger rugged tyres, longer stronger LA's, big shockers (say 8 long x 2 wide, a bit like 48912), perhaps longer stronger beams, some heavy duty gear wheels,.....

dual or triple channel receiver with 6 outputs, high capacity rechargeable LiPo (half the size and twice the power of 59510),.....

What's not to like? (Other than costing about 500 Euros)

[ShaydDeGrai]

I think that, practically speaking, a ceiling of ~5000 parts and a price tag of 400 USD puts a cap on what we're likely to ever see in a high-end set; but price (within reason) should not be the sole limiting factor as it is the nature of a "flagship" kit to command the biggest price tag and likely sell a smaller volume than the low-end "bread and butter" kits of the line. TLG has been in this business long enough to have a good sense for what the market will support and will always constrain its designers accordingly.

That said, 5000 parts as an upper bounds is still nearly double what we've seen to date, but I think the real question isn't about piece count or price, so much as it about about features and value.

Technic has always had broader appeal to a slightly older audience than 'traditional' LEGO, so "play features" take on a slightly different meaning than flick-fire missiles, hidden compartments, posable horses, etc. I think of technic "features" as more a measure of fidelity to the details, range of motion, and automation of the real-world designs that inspired them. Can Technic flagship models continue to increase that fidelity without driving the part count through the roof. I believe they can and I certainly hope they do.

As for value, a price per part ratio is not always the best metric. With most large models what the part count really reflects is how many bags of connector pins you're going to be getting - where's the fun in that? I've already got bins of pins - yes, they are an essential part of the build, but they're not where the perception of value lies.

I, for one, find value in complexity. I'm more interested in discovering a new linkage, transmission or drive chain design than I am in how many parts it took to implement it. By building bigger flagship models, this opens the door for designing to a level of complexity that simply doesn't fit in smaller models.

I find value in novelty as well. One of the reasons my personal consumption of higher end Technic models has slowed in recent years has been due to redundancies in the design; I look at the latest car or truck and think to myself, this thing has a V-Block piston engine, rack and pinion steering, strut suspension - been there, done that, what's new? I've been buying Technic kits since they were first marketed as the "expert builder" series back in the 1970's so I expect a certain amount of repetition at this point. Still, it gets a bit tedious seeing the same techniques, same parts and same sub-assemblies repeated over and over. Perhaps if flagship models were built to a grander scale, it might encourage TLG to mix things up a bit in the guts of the models as well; to use the extra space as a gateway to introducing newer, more interesting internal "plumbing".

The value in novelty also extends to the the subject matter of the kits themselves. I now have a fleet of super-cars, 4x4s, mobile cranes, etc. I thought the Unimog was kinda ugly actually, but it was _uniquely_ ugly and its aesthetic was consistent with the actual vehicle it was trying to model. Could larger flagship models enable TLG to tackle subjects they haven't revised three or four times over (or at least haven't done recently)? I'd certainly hope so and would happily spend the extra money for something that really stood out on my display shelf rather than just being another excavator, or whatever.

I'd love to see a larger, updated remake of the space shuttle or a Mars rover that felt like a real, all-terrain mobile science laboratory. A flagship fire truck could be interesting (yes, it's basically a mobile crane in red, but it's an excuse for lights, sound, pneumatics and power functions and fire-fighting equipment has been under represented in the Technic line compare to, say construction equipment.)

So I guess, in summary, I'd say that yes, flagship models can keep getting bigger, provided that there is a _reason_ to be bigger. The best reasons I can think of are to provide a level of fidelity, complexity and novelty above and beyond what has come before, and I, for one, hope that they do.