Heroica RPG - Cruel Angel's Thesis: Discussion

[Palathadric]

That's what I thought too.

[Flipz]

Sandy, I thought you said this game wouldn't be as fast and intense as Mafia.

[Kadabra]

I'm so used to being able to post quickly and edit my spelling errors and any stupid autocorrections my iPad does after that when I play Mafia I look like an illiterate buffoon.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Kadabra

[Flipz]

All right, who mentioned GregTech?

(That's a Feed the Beast reference--do a Google search for "Feed the Beast" and "Gregtech" and you'll see what I mean. )

[Brickdoctor]

I guess ten pages over half a day of my being away isn't so bad...

[Flare]

I guess ten pages over half a day of my being away isn't so bad...

I think about 2 of them are my fault, sorry

[Kadabra]

I think about 2 of them are my fault, sorry

I think I've contributed more than my fair share, too. I'll be we'll over 1000 posts by the time this is through.

[Brickdoctor]

I think I've contributed more than my fair share, too. I'll be we'll over 1000 posts by the time this is through.

Maybe I shouldn't look at my total post count, then...

I think about 2 of them are my fault, sorry

Hmm, "Remove ability to create content for _ hours", what does this option do...

[Flare]

This is starting to stress me out a bit I think thats bad.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Flare

[LordoftheNoobs]

Games aren't meant to do that!

(Unless they begin with "Super Mario".....)

[Duvors]

Games aren't meant to do that!

(Unless they begin with "Super Mario".....)

(Or 'Super Luigi.)

[Flipz]

All right. Just finished catching up on today's posts.

I am officially in a Bad Mood now. On another forum, someone I know and dearly admire, someone who has been both a mentor and a friend to me and an example toward which I strive has been driven from her own site and from playing a game she used to love by anger and hostility carelessly thrown about by denizens of the internet who either forget or don't care that the person on the other side of the screen is an actual person and not just a collection of pixels on a screen--by the very same sort of hostility and vitriol that I've seen here all throughout the posts of this in-game Day. I've never, ever been the type of person to stand by and do nothing when something nasty is going down, and it eats me up when I see it and can do nothing about it--especially when some of my best friends are involved.

I've been told "well, this is how Mafia goes". Well, you know what, maybe it shouldn't. I openly admit, I'm not tough enough for Mafia as it stands--we all know it. Heck, there are times in Heroica, rare as they are, that have been too much for me. I didn't sign up for this to play Mafia; I signed up for this to play a fun game with new and old friends set in the universe of an RPG I love with all my heart. I did not sign up for an experience full of dislike and vitriol--and that's what I'm seeing today.

Yes, I get it--people are trying to win. We all are. And this game is won and lost on accusations and acquisition of knowledge--an informed minority versus an uninformed majority that must quickly inform itself if it's going to win. But I saw all of that in Day 2, and it was not the same beast as I'm seeing in Day 3. Something is rotten in the city of Eubric, and it's gotten to the point where I don't feel comfortable participating in the in-game conversation anymore.

Maybe I'm soft--like I said, I already know and admit I'm too weak for Mafia. Maybe I'm just young and idealistic. But maybe--just maybe--it's a sign that we should reassess how seriously we're taking our experiences in these games.

I apologize for posting this much out-of-topic, but I feel it pertains more to out-of-character concerns than to in-character ones, and to be frank it would be a pain in the megablocks both to type up and to read as Zpilf, not to mention it would require excessive breaking of character and/or vague in-character allusions in order to communicate. In this case, clarity is king--and that means bringing the discussion here.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Flipz

[Kadabra]

All right. Just finished catching up on today's posts.

I am officially in a Bad Mood now. On another forum, someone I know and dearly admire, someone who has been both a mentor and a friend to me and an example toward which I strive has been driven from her own site and from playing a game she used to love by anger and hostility carelessly thrown about by denizens of the internet who either forget or don't care that the person on the other side of the screen is an actual person and not just a collection of pixels on a screen--by the very same sort of hostility and vitriol that I've seen here all throughout the posts of this in-game Day. I've never, ever been the type of person to stand by and do nothing when something nasty is going down, and it eats me up when I see it and can do nothing about it--especially when some of my best friends are involved.

I've been told "well, this is how Mafia goes". Well, you know what, maybe it shouldn't. I openly admit, I'm not tough enough for Mafia as it stands--we all know it. Heck, there are times in Heroica, rare as they are, that have been too much for me. I didn't sign up for this to play Mafia; I signed up for this to play a fun game with new and old friends set in the universe of an RPG I love with all my heart. I did not sign up for an experience full of dislike and vitriol--and that's what I'm seeing today.

Yes, I get it--people are trying to win. We all are. And this game is won and lost on accusations and acquisition of knowledge--an informed minority versus an uninformed majority that must quickly inform itself if it's going to win. But I saw all of that in Day 2, and it was not the same beast as I'm seeing in Day 3. Something is rotten in the city of Eubric, and it's gotten to the point where I don't feel comfortable participating in the in-game conversation anymore.

Maybe I'm soft--like I said, I already know and admit I'm too weak for Mafia. Maybe I'm just young and idealistic. But maybe--just maybe--it's a sign that we should reassess how seriously we're taking our experiences in these games.

I apologize for posting this much out-of-topic, but I feel it pertains more to out-of-character concerns than to in-character ones, and to be frank it would be a pain in the megablocks both to type up and to read as Zpilf, not to mention it would require excessive breaking of character and/or vague in-character allusions in order to communicate. In this case, clarity is king--and that means bringing the discussion here.

I like to think that what's going in in Day 3 is pretty in/out of character separated. I've seen assaults on logic and actions, but not on the players themselves like in HSatPB. Arguing is sort of the nature of the beast, and .i hope it's clear from out of CAT that I have nothing but respect for the players that I'm verbally assaulting in thread - In fact, I admire them whether they're scum OR town for sticking to their guns and not giving up despite players like me who can be very in your face during these kinds of games. I just feel like a jovial accusation with a wink and a laugh doesn't inspire action or response as much as relentlessly pushing at people. But perhaps you're right, and we should all try to add s to our posts more often. Thanks for letting us know how you feel, though. I think that even if Mafia can be stressful it can also be great fun and nobody should feel like they're being personally attacked. As such, I would like to formally extend an apology to anyone (Flare, Pyro, Scuba, Duvors, etc) who feels like I have insulted them as a person and not that Kharybdis has assaulted their character.

[Brickdoctor]

Mafia/Heroica/Pseudo-Heroica-Mafia is just a game. It takes you and your friends, pits you against each other, and in its most basic concept it requires you to distrust and/or lie to most or all of the other players, but it's still just a game. If you choose to be insulted or driven away by the way the game is played, then that is your reaction and no one else is really forcing you to do that.

And in any case, I don't really think that this is the right time or place to rant about it, in the middle of the game. If you have any complaints about the game or the players in it, best to save it for the conclusion.

[Scubacarrot]

Any insults that I make or things I say that could or could not be interpreted as such are 100% meant and I hope you suffer deep personological trauma's from them.

I'm joking of course, but come on, we have gone over this time and time again, in both mafia and the RPG. Seperate things people. No apologizing, play hard. No whining, let's do this thing, this game is awesome.

[Scorpiox]

To be honest I think it'd help if people stuck to their characters. Playing without roleplay and just using standard text is often close breaking down the boundaries between player and character. Personality quirks not only make things more interesting (if used appropriately) but also make clear that whatever nastiness is in-character. It's a shame, really, but this time in a game the majority of people have stopped completely.

[Zepher]

I'm with Guts. It's a game. We all come in knowing that. What would mafia be without conflict. I understand when attacks become personal, but its rare, and I don't think its happening here to the best of my knowledge. I fight hardest (here and in reality) with the people I know best, because I can and should. What greater sign of friendship than the lack of fear that comes with normal fights? Friends know that they can fight, and still be friends.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Zepher

[CMP]

I'm with Guts. It's a game. We all come in knowing that. What would mafia be without conflict. I understand when attacks become personal, but its rare, and I don't think its happening here to the best of my knowledge. I fight hardest (here and in reality) with the people I know best, because I can and should. What greater sign of friendship than the lack of fear that comes with normal fights? Friends know that they can fight, and still be friends.

Exactly. It's all just a game, it almost never gets personal, and when it does, generally somebody puts a stop to it. I don't see any problems happening here at all, I'm having a lot of fun.

[Rumble Strike]

On the roleplay thing. much like Mafia, it appears that roleplaying decreases the longer the games go on. I always put Sir Rubinstein's words in speech marks to indicate that it is him (the character) talking.

[Sandy]

From the rules:

Things will get brutal and cut-throat in this game, and you can get killed off at any time, but any of that is not to be taken as a personal insult. Please post in-character at all times to ensure that your player persona is separated from your real self.

So everyone should have known what they were signing into.

It's down to a matter of self-confidence: do you honestly believe people who are playing an online game with you truly hate or despise you on a personal level? Or could it be that they are just trying to rile you up intentionally so that you'll fumble in the game?

I was bullied throughout elementary school myself, so I do not accept it in any level, but when a fictional roleplaying character calls another fictional roleplaying character names or treats them badly, can you really get offended by it? When roleplaying, you sort of have to step out of yourself, and separate your own emotions and attitudes from the character you are playing as.

As the game advances, the stakes get higher and the people get more aggressive. If you accept that as a natural progress of the game, then it should be easier for you to let it slide without letting it get to your head. The only thing I am willing to do as the game host at this point is to encourage everyone to stick to roleplaying your characters. It makes the game that much more immersive, and allows using dirty tactics without getting anyone's feelings hurt.

[Sandy]

Two new additions to the rules:

- You can discard items at any time to prevent them getting into wrong hands. You cannot sell them to Sham, though, as he's in the Hall to make gold, not spend it.

- If you fail to send in your action (or even state that you will do nothing) for two phases in a row, your character will be automatically killed off. On Night Two, there were four people who did not send an action, and I've yet to get any actions from eight players for Day Three.

These rules come into effect immediately.

[Brickdoctor]

On the roleplay thing. much like Mafia, it appears that roleplaying decreases the longer the games go on. I always put Sir Rubinstein's words in speech marks to indicate that it is him (the character) talking.

I used to roleplay during mafia just like I roleplayed during Heroica, but then I stopped roleplaying as the games went on and became known for not-roleplaying, so I can actually roleplay, but I've not-roleplayed a lot, so not-roleplaying is expected and even though I can roleplay if I want to roleplay I avoid roleplaying because I'm supposed to not-roleplay because I've established not-roleplaying as the way that I play the roles of my characters, so not-roleplaying becomes roleplaying and even though I'm not roleplaying I'm not not-roleplaying because I'm still roleplaying not-roleplaying.

Same applies to this game. Plus the roleplaying gets more difficult and more of a distraction as you start to learn more and the pace of the game speeds up.

[Duvors]

It's down to a matter of self-confidence: do you honestly believe people who are playing an online game with you truly hate or despise you on a personal level? Or could it be that they are just trying to rile you up intentionally so that you'll fumble in the game?

I was bullied throughout elementary school myself, so I do not accept it in any level, but when a fictional roleplaying character calls another fictional roleplaying character names or treats them badly, can you really get offended by it? When roleplaying, you sort of have to step out of yourself, and separate your own emotions and attitudes from the character you are playing as.

I think that the problem is that almost everyone is more used to Mafia then Roleplaying so when given a Mafia style situation people stop roleplaying.

This is not Mafia, this is a point I raised on the first day that no one payed any attention to, it does have Mafia style elements but it is primarily based of a Roleplaying Game and is set in an RPG universe, but no one seems to see this and says what they think in real life, and even if they don't people are so used to Mafia in which roleplaying is looked down on and just not done that they think that the people attacking them in character are attacking them in real life.

I consider this just plain foolish, if not stupid.

No offense intended.

[Brickdoctor]

No, roleplaying is done in mafia. Hosts set up a themed situation and send their players short bios of their characters. Many players do at least initially roleplay, and it isn't looked down upon. What is looked down upon is using roleplaying for an attempted logical argument (because in a well-hosted game, the roles and the characters are randomized and have nothing to do with each other) or using roleplaying in a way that distracts and contributes nothing. This usually leads to the roleplaying decreasing later in the game as there are more important things demanding your attention.

Whether this is mafia or not (And mafia is much much closer to this than Heroica RPG is.), many of the same principles and concepts of mafia still apply to this game. Just because it's not advertised as true mafia doesn't mean that we former/veteran mafia players should abandon everything we've learned through mafia that can be applied to this game.

[Sandy]

Sorry guys, but I don't think I can post the conclusion until tomorrow. I'll try to get the day's results to everyone now, though.

So please hold your night actions until the conclusion is up, even if you get the results earlier.

Also, it seems I made a small grammatical error with the sentence in Byblos's second challenge. Since there was a distinct way to solve the sentence despite of it, I'm not giving any experience for those that gave the wrong answer, even if it was the grammatically correct one. My apologies!